Working Online for Chinese Company while Living in Thailand.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, balo said:

I think you are not with me.  I pay my tax in my home country , not Thailand!  That's the difference, you understand now ?  All my transactions are outside of Thailand.

 

Are you telling me that I am not allowed to spend my money in Thailand?  Then million of foreigners will have big problems every year . 

I completely understand, but everything I have advised still stands. You are resident in Thailand for tax and even though you pay tax on your earnings in your own country you might still have a liability in Thailand. I have provided you with the proof. I am not suggesting you change what you are doing or act on the information.

 

No one has a problem, and you can spend your income wherever you want. I am simply correcting the misinformation you are giving. You are wrong to think that just because you earn income abroad that nobody in Thailand cares, or that you don't have a tax liability in Thailand. 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

If that's all true how come no one's getting eyed up when they have clearly been in thailand on a tourist visa for 42 months in a row with a handful of days outside LOS. Surely if the 6 month inside thailand law was one they wished to uphold they would act?

It would not be practical for them to chase after foreigners for small amounts of tax on foreign earnings that would, in many cases, be hard to prove. And as pointed out already, it is a self assessment system so the onous is on the taxpayer. Although there are potentially many foreigners with a liability the tax take would probably be very small/insignificant.

 

All that myself and @JackThompson are pointing out is that, contrary to @balo opinion, a tax liability can exist for any foreigner, with any visa/permit that lives in the country longer than 6 months in a tax year. Digital nomads are probably the biggest offenders, but I doubt many have much of a liability, if any, and I suspect many don't pay tax anywhere!

 

[DLang]

19 hours ago, balo said:

The point is if your business is outside of Thailand that's also where your money is. And if you want to bring that money into Thailand later nobody cares .

You seem to be a different case to what's discussed in the OP.

 

It is living in Thailand and the money you earn being paid into your Thai account by the Chinese company that pays you. You have no Chinese bank account and no other connection to China. 

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

That's not answering the question at all and what's tax cheats got to do with it.

 

Point is if Thailand was serious about recieving taxes from people residing within thailand for 180 days+ in a calenfar year they would go after the people.  It is not happening so that law is being overlooked and the chap barking on about digital nomads are a curse is onto a loser. The only issue I cannot understand is why being a person who can holiday and work simultaneously is a bad thing for anyone other than people that do not know how?

If I had my way, DNs and others with offshore-businesses/income would be able to get a visa in exchange for paying tax and re-incorporating their micro-businesses here.  Unfortunately, that visa doesn't exist (need 2M Baht in capital + hiring 4 Thais - not practical for most in this category).

 

If you are here more than 180 days/yr, and remit money earned In The Same Year to Thailand, it is Thai Law that this income is taxable.  If not paying taxes that are due, that is avoiding taxes-due.  I am not making a moral judgement - just stating what the law is.

 

Caveats:

• If you pay taxes in another country, there may be a bilateral tax-treaty which allows you to deduct tax-paid to one country from tax-due in another. 
• In Thailand, the first portion of one's income is tax-exempt**, so small incomes would not have tax due, even if they are taxable. 

**Contrast this to the USA, where ~15% "self-employment tax" is owed from the first net-dollar earned, regardless of where you live or where you earn the money.  The Thai tax-system is not designed to crush small business owners, as is the plutocratic American system, which actively-punishes those who dare not to "work for the man."   Don't pay the USA, and one's assets/business and passport are confiscated, and it's back to the US-plantation, where one's life-energy surplus can be "harvested" directly from an employer's paycheck.

[balo]

2 hours ago, DLang said:

It is living in Thailand and the money you earn being paid into your Thai account by the Chinese company that pays you. You have no Chinese bank account and no other connection to China. 

Of course we can agree on that , the other discussion was about digital nomads.  

 

If you get a salary from a company paid into your Thai bank account you are asking for troubles. 

 

 

 

[ExpatDraco]

34 minutes ago, balo said:

Of course we can agree on that , the other discussion was about digital nomads.  

 

If you get a salary from a company paid into your Thai bank account you are asking for troubles. 

 

 

 

I wonder what happens if you pull out your money from ATM's from an oversees bank account? Is that traceable? It probably is, but do they?

[DUS]

One of the potential dangers that I see is that if the client(s) who you invoice will be audited by their national tax authority and for whatever reason "pick out" your invoices to cross-check if you paid taxes etc on your income that then things might turn a bit ugly. Let´s assume you, a DN, invoice your clients from and with your address in Thailand. Would a local tax authority in, let´s say for example the UK, approach either the DN directly or the Thai tax authorities to check if tax was paid on that income? How likely is such a scenario to happen? I genuinely don´t know as I am not working in such a scenario but would be interesting to know since lots of DNs seem to think that they will not and cannot be caught.

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, DUS said:

One of the potential dangers that I see is that if the client(s) who you invoice will be audited by their national tax authority and for whatever reason "pick out" your invoices to cross-check if you paid taxes etc on your income that then things might turn a bit ugly. Let´s assume you, a DN, invoice your clients from and with your address in Thailand. Would a local tax authority in, let´s say for example the UK, approach either the DN directly or the Thai tax authorities to check if tax was paid on that income? How likely is such a scenario to happen? I genuinely don´t know as I am not working in such a scenario but would be interesting to know since lots of DNs seem to think that they will not and cannot be caught.

Anyone who is trying to do the "DN" thing should be familiar with "Five-flags" theory:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler

One tenant is to NOT stay in one country long enough to qualify to pay taxes there, according to that country's tax-laws. 

 

Thailand has the "one year" rule, so you can bring in "old money" tax-free, which allows those with overseas-incomes being able to stay here 6+ months without tax-liabilities.  This provision may have been put into place to make Thailand an attractive location for retirees.  

[ExpatDraco]

10 hours ago, DUS said:

One of the potential dangers that I see is that if the client(s) who you invoice will be audited by their national tax authority and for whatever reason "pick out" your invoices to cross-check if you paid taxes etc on your income that then things might turn a bit ugly. Let´s assume you, a DN, invoice your clients from and with your address in Thailand. Would a local tax authority in, let´s say for example the UK, approach either the DN directly or the Thai tax authorities to check if tax was paid on that income? How likely is such a scenario to happen? I genuinely don´t know as I am not working in such a scenario but would be interesting to know since lots of DNs seem to think that they will not and cannot be caught.

 

That's why you want your (own) company in between... As long as that company is following the rules in it's country, the 'trace' will stop there. But I can be wrong. ;-)

[balo]

On 5/24/2017 at 3:12 PM, DUS said:

One of the potential dangers that I see is that if the client(s) who you invoice will be audited by their national tax authority and for whatever reason "pick out" your invoices to cross-check if you paid taxes etc on your income that then things might turn a bit ugly. Let´s assume you, a DN, invoice your clients from and with your address in Thailand. Would a local tax authority in, let´s say for example the UK, approach either the DN directly or the Thai tax authorities t

 

We're drifting a bit apart here, a digital nomad will have a home address or an office address if you like, outside of Thailand.  In my case in Norway .   So if they want to check if I pay my tax they will send a request to my home address.  Most digital nomads do have a home/office address outside of Thailand, that's important to remember.  It can be at their parents house or another family member, or a shared office as long as it's not connected to Thailand in any way.   

It works for me and I'm sure for many others , as long as you do pay your tax of course.

If not you could end up in trouble in any country in the world. 

 

 

[Rc2702]

It's totally unstoppable and you know how it is here it would be taken to the absolute extreme. Imagine it. Making a quick phone call to the office and all of a sudden you got 10 Thais on your case as your working. Also these expat oil workers with families here I bet they never paid tax in any country as there kind of men of nowhere, fair few oil workers about no one's barking at them. It seems very odd people having an issue with this type of worker and yet the islands is full and I mean full of business owners who operate outside the law and no one boycotts there business. Very odd this hoo-ha. From the chaps above post about invoicing under a Thai address, has not got a clue and very doubtful he ever done a shred of business with assumptions like that. Very odd.

[DUS]

1 hour ago, balo said:

Tl

We're drifting a bit apart here, a digital nomad will have a home address or an office address if you like, outside of Thailand.  

 

Is that so?

 

I stopped working in the U.K. last year and left the country for good. My job used to be something I could do from anywhere in the world. If I had continued the same job from my new home in Thailand what would be my tax situation with me living "permanently" in LOS now?

[wolf1611]

58 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

It's totally unstoppable and you know how it is here it would be taken to the absolute extreme. Imagine it. Making a quick phone call to the office and all of a sudden you got 10 Thais on your case as your working. Also these expat oil workers with families here I bet they never paid tax in any country as there kind of men of nowhere, fair few oil workers about no one's barking at them. It seems very odd people having an issue with this type of worker and yet the islands is full and I mean full of business owners who operate outside the law and no one boycotts there business. Very odd this hoo-ha. From the chaps above post about invoicing under a Thai address, has not got a clue and very doubtful he ever done a shred of business with assumptions like that. Very odd.

i think you will find us oil workers do pay tax to the country we work in also if we are a ltd company we have to also pay tax on that i wish i was tax free 

[Rc2702]

1 minute ago, wolf1611 said:

i think you will find us oil workers do pay tax to the country we work in also if we are a ltd company we have to also pay tax on that i wish i was tax free 

Thanks for confirming that so you live in thailand but work in another country and get taxed by the country of work, not thailand? 

[wolf1611]

1 minute ago, Rc2702 said:

Thanks for confirming that so you live in thailand but work in another country and get taxed by the country of work, not thailand? 

yes why would thailand tax us we are not working in there country and not earning a wage while we live here we just spend our wages on beer and woman 

[balo]

43 minutes ago, DUS said:

I stopped working in the U.K. last year and left the country for good

 

Yes , then I agree with previous posters about the tax issue .  Then you just have to stay under the radar and hope for the best like many others .  I would not risk my business in Europe by losing all communication with my home country .  

 

I can move back tomorrow if I like . But so far so good. 

 

 

 

  

 

[tazly]

What's the difference between digital nomad and perpetual traveller?

[Rc2702]

33 minutes ago, wolf1611 said:

yes why would thailand tax us we are not working in there country and not earning a wage while we live here we just spend our wages on beer and woman 

Exactly my point but you are effectively earning a wage. The unsociable hours and remote locations you work is compensated through a decent income and a month on month off system. Remote workers who pay taxes in their home land and even other taxes such as Corp tax are being vilified for the same thing as any ordinary expat oil worker. Fact is it's technology which has created this issue and if you had the chance to operate whatever machines you use remotely,  you'd be an absolute mug for not taking up that chance.

[tazly]

2 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Exactly my point but you are effectively earning a wage. The unsociable hours and remote locations you work is compensated through a decent income and a month on month off system. Remote workers who pay taxes in their home land and even other taxes such as Corp tax are being vilified for the same thing as any ordinary expat oil worker. Fact is it's technology which has created this issue and if you had the chance to operate whatever machines you use remotely,  you'd be an absolute mug for not taking up that chance.

The real mugs are to be found in coffee shops!