British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Agree entirely.  Why did it take so long to get rid of him, and only then because (I gather) because the Brit authorities found it easier to extradite him?

 

The other point is that this terrorist's family were religious extremists, and should never have been allowed into the country.  Instead, if I understand correctly, they were allowed into the country because their extreme religious beliefs made them a 'target' under the Gadaffi regime?

I wouldn't get too complacent just yet, he has launched an appeal with the ICHR to return to Britain, and serve his prison sentence there because his conditions in an American jail are too harsh.

It cost the UK 38 million pounds to extradite whilst he received 3 million in benefits.

Edited May 27, 2017 by vogie

[Caps]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

I wouldn't get too complacent just yet, he has launched an appeal with the ICHR to return to Britain, and serve his prison sentence there because his conditions in an American jail are too harsh.

It cost the UK 38 million pounds to extradite whilst he received 3 million in benefits.

  why doesn't that surprise me 

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, Flustered said:

The Guardian for once, explains Abu Hanza well.

 

As usual, the EU courts were involved.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/20/abu-hamza-arrest-take-so-long-us-terrorism-charges

I'm not sure how this explains why his clear hate speeches were unimportant and unworthy of jail time?

 

After serving that term, he could then have been extradited to the US if they were able to provide evidence to support the charges?

 

Instead (as far as I can make out) the UK chose to extradite him.

 

And none of this explains why the UK authorities took so long to imprison him for clearly advocating violence!

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

I wouldn't get too complacent just yet, he has launched an appeal with the ICHR to return to Britain, and serve his prison sentence there because his conditions in an American jail are too harsh.

It cost the UK 38 million pounds to extradite whilst he received 3 million in benefits.

And that's another good point.

 

It seems unlikely that courts will decide that American jails are "too harsh" - but even if they do, it must be obvious by now that 'hate preachers' need to be in solitary confinement, rather than gathering others in the prison population to their 'cause'.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm not sure how this explains why his clear hate speeches were unimportant and unworthy of jail time?

 

After serving that term, he could then have been extradited to the US if they were able to provide evidence to support the charges?

 

Instead (as far as I can make out) the UK chose to extradite him.

 

And none of this explains why the UK authorities took so long to imprison him for clearly advocating violence!

I remember when Theresa May was Home Secretary she tried to get rid of another leech, Abu Qatada, but the ICHR refused because it would impose on his human rights, doesn't seem to matter about our human rights!

[uptheos]

45 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Times have reported:-

 

"Intelligence officers have identified 23,000 jihadist extremists living in Britain as potential terrorist attackers, it emerged yesterday.

The scale of the challenge facing the police and security services was disclosed by Whitehall sources after criticism that multiple opportunities to stop the Manchester bomber had been missed."

 

Hardly something to gloss over, but as someone living in Australia, why should it bother you?

Tag them like Paedophiles, so we know their movements.

[transam]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I remember when Theresa May was Home Secretary she tried to get rid of another leech, Abu Qatada, but the ICHR refused because it would impose on his human rights, doesn't seem to matter about our human rights!

Because the UK has UK solicitors and Barristers waiting in the wings to earn bundles at the UK tax payers expense to work for scrotes......

[Flustered]

Vogie, we have no human rights.....

 

In this ridiculous PC driven world, all power and privilege goes to the criminal and terrorist. We the peace loving, normal people have no rights at all.

 

Long live the Liberal elite and their PC State. Long may they sleep peacefully feeling warm and fuzzy knowing that they have helped a terrorist enjoy a better life while ignoring the rights of the innocent.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

Vogie, we have no human rights.....

 

In this ridiculous PC driven world, all power and privilege goes to the criminal and terrorist. We the peace loving, normal people have no rights at all.

 

Long live the Liberal elite and their PC State. Long may they sleep peacefully feeling warm and fuzzy knowing that they have helped a terrorist enjoy a better life while ignoring the rights of the innocent.

It's not hard to imagine in another hundred years we might even be still in the stone age, with women being stoned for adultery and gays being thrown off rooftops, it can only get worse. And what have we got, apathy and sympathisers! They can't see the wood for the trees!

[onthesoi]

13 hours ago, Flustered said:

If I could find a country that banned Muslims I would happily go and live there.

 

 

9 hours ago, simple1 said:

Here are some suggestions for you with countries that have or are in the process of 'banning' Muslims...

 

Slovakia Angola, Hungary, Myanmar, and Samoa 

 

So when are you leaving Flustered?

[uptheos]

2 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

 

So when are you leaving Flustered?

Hungary is nice.

[rwdrwdrwd]

3 minutes ago, uptheos said:

Hungary is nice.

I've been more than once. It's dreadful. Unless you like being surrounded by aggressive steroid freaks.

Edited May 27, 2017 by rwdrwdrwd

[onthesoi]

3 minutes ago, uptheos said:

Hungary is nice.

Is the food good?

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

I remember when Theresa May was Home Secretary she tried to get rid of another leech, Abu Qatada, but the ICHR refused because it would impose on his human rights, doesn't seem to matter about our human rights!

Quite.  Another story at which everyone would scoff if it was in a movie!

[uptheos]

1 minute ago, onthesoi said:

Is the food good?

If you're hungry

[simple1]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

The Times have reported:-

 

"Intelligence officers have identified 23,000 jihadist extremists living in Britain as potential terrorist attackers, it emerged yesterday.

The scale of the challenge facing the police and security services was disclosed by Whitehall sources after criticism that multiple opportunities to stop the Manchester bomber had been missed."

 

Hardly something to gloss over, but as someone living in Australia, why should it bother you?

I am a UK national. The threat of Islamist terror is present in all Western countries, so kindly cease stupid accusations. We all deal with these issues in different ways, personally I do not believe , nor do the security forces,  it is constructive  to  post  propaganda of fear and hate or vilification of Muslims in general.

Edited May 27, 2017 by simple1

[Flustered]

28 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

 

So when are you leaving Flustered?

I might even move in next door to you........But I see you are too embarrassed to say where you live (funny how certain types of people want to hide where they live). Probably some some down market, back street hovel.

[AGareth2]

26 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I am a UK national. The threat of Islamist terror is present in all Western countries, so kindly cease stupid accusations. We all deal with these issues in different ways, personally I do not believe , nor do the security forces,  it is constructive  to  post  propaganda of fear and hate or vilification of Muslims in general.

not just Western

the casualties are mounting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc........

[onthesoi]

16 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I might even move in next door to you........But I see you are too embarrassed to say where you live (funny how certain types of people want to hide where they live). Probably some some down market, back street hovel.

 

Its a bit too multicultural where I live you wouldn't like it.

 

Anyway, dont change the subject, when are you leaving? ...you being a man of your word n'all, would'nt want people thinking you're all talk and no action.

Edited May 27, 2017 by onthesoi

[MaxYakov]

52 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

 

So when are you leaving Flustered?

 

50 minutes ago, uptheos said:

Hungary is nice.

 

47 minutes ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

I've been more than once. It's dreadful. Unless you like being surrounded by aggressive steroid freaks.

 

46 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Is the food good?

 

43 minutes ago, uptheos said:

If you're hungry

 

21 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I might even move in next door to you........But I see you are too embarrassed to say where you live (funny how certain types of people want to hide where they live). Probably some some down market, back street hovel.

 

6 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Its a bit too multicultural where I live you wouldn't like it.

 

Anyway, dont change the subject, when are you leaving? ...you being a man of your word n'all, would'nt people thinking you're all talk and no action.

Hi: I'm new to this forum. I'm wondering - does it have a Personal Message (PM) system?

Edited May 27, 2017 by MaxYakov

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi: I'm new to this forum. I'm wondering - does it have a personal message system?

yes

but trashing each other in public is the way to go

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

The Times have reported:-

 

"Intelligence officers have identified 23,000 jihadist extremists living in Britain as potential terrorist attackers, it emerged yesterday.

The scale of the challenge facing the police and security services was disclosed by Whitehall sources after criticism that multiple opportunities to stop the Manchester bomber had been missed."

 

Hardly something to gloss over, but as someone living in Australia, why should it bother you?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/islam-infested-by-extremists-moderate-muslim-cleric-says/news-story/e4020668bba6c222d83141f10e58070a

 

This is ON topic both WRT to Manchester and Simple1. Time for the apologists to <deleted> and apologise

[7by7]

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

<snip>

Simply going to Coventry or Bradford scares the hell out of me. I no longer feel safe in my own country for whom I put my life on the line many times

Really? An ex soldier who served in Northern Ireland during the troubles is scared to enter these cities?

 

I live in a town with an approximately 8% Muslim population. Am I scared to walk the streets? No. Concerned sometimes, particularly on a Friday and Saturday night. But that's not because of Muslims, it's because of the frequent fights breaking out between drunks!

 

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

<snip>

Muslims scare me. We have no idea where the next terrorist attack will come from or how many innocents will be slaughtered in the name of Islam. Whenever I see a Muslim  wearing a niqab or burka I wonder if it is a female or a terrorist dressed as a woman. Muslims have driven me to this state of mind. 

You say you served in Northern Ireland. I didn't, but was almost a victim of the Guildford pub bombs; I was on my way to join friends who were already in the Horse and Groom when the bomb went off.

 

But I never thought "The Irish scare me. We have no idea where the next terrorist attack will come from or how many innocents will be slaughtered in the name of Irish Republicanism. Whenever I see an Irish person I wonder if it is a terrorist. The PIRA and INLA have driven me to this state of mind."

 

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

I want to see whole Muslim communities taking to the street condemning these atrocities but that will never happen.

As shown many times in many threads, Muslims of all sects have taken to the streets, and elsewhere, to condemn terrorist violence. But why do you demand this of them when you did not demand it of others.

 

As I said before

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Using your logic, every single Irish citizen must have supported the atrocities committed by the IRA and INLA etc., in the 1960s, 70s, 80s and 90s; because there were never in all that time thousands of Irish people taking to the streets in protest against them.

 

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

I want to see the police allowed to detain suspects and question them without the restrictions currently placed upon them

As someone who says he served in Northern Ireland, you must know how effective internment without trial was when Thatcher introduced it there! You must know that it made martyrs of those detained. You must know it acted as a recruitment tool for the terrorists.

 

The police already have powers to arrest and detain suspects for longer than is the norm under the Prevention of Terrorism Act.

 

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

I want to see anyone who is connected to any group supporting these terrorist in any way rounded up and if they are not born in the UK, immediately deported and I don't care where to.

 Those non British citizens convicted of terrorist related crimes can be, and usually are, deported once they have served their sentence; if not before.

 

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

I want to see all sections of the Muslim population swear on the Quran an allegiance to the UK first and Islam second. However it will never happen.

Those who are naturalised British citizens have taken the following oath: "I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law."

 

Those who are British by birth, like the rest of us, haven't. Maybe there is an argument for UK schools to follow the custom in the USA of pupils taking the oath everyday?

 

Do you demand ex IRA members take the oath? Remember that Adams and McGuinness never took their seats in Parliament because they refused to do so. An oath every Muslim MP has happily taken.

 

14 hours ago, Flustered said:

This country is full of apologists and people who say we should expect this and just get on with our lives.

Apologists? Who are these apologists and what are they apologising for?

 

Yes, we should get on with our lives and not be cowed by these evil acts; just as we did during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

Be aware; yes. Be cautious; yes. Report suspicious objects or activities; yes.

 

But the message coming from Manchester since this appalling atrocity is that we will not let these scum effect our lives; we will carry on.

 

You may want to hide in a hole somewhere, but I am at one with the people of Manchester and will not let the terrorists stop me from living my life.

 

As an ex soldier, you must be familiar with the name Jabron Hashmi. I put it to you that he is far more representative of British Muslims than any of the scum involved in the Manchester bombing or any other act of Islamic terrorism or extremism.

Quote

L/Cpl Hashmi's older brother Zeeshan, a former member of the Intelligence Corps, said: "Jabron was a committed soldier and a committed Muslim. He was fiercely proud of his Islamic background and he was equally proud of being British.(source)

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, onthesoi said:

 

 

So when are you leaving Flustered?

Japan seems to have a pretty good balance....

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, onthesoi said:

Is the food good?

Goulash and Bulls Blood

[7by7]

8 hours ago, RickBradford said:

In 1987, a lunatic killed 16 people in Hungerford in the UK. Semi-automatic weapons were subsequently banned by law

 

In 1996, a lunatic killed 17 people in Dunblane in the UK. All private firearms were subsequently banned by law

 

In 2017, an Islamist jihadi kills 22 people in Manchester. What do we do? Lay flowers, light candles and create hashtags. Oh, and do a lot of worrying about an "Islamophobic" backlash by "extremist elements".

 

That's how feeble the UK authorities have become from a 20-year diet of political correctness. It is a terminal illness.

What is your point?

 

Making bombs, owning bombs and exploding bombs by members of the public are already illegal in the UK!

[transam]

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Really? An ex soldier who served in Northern Ireland during the troubles is scared to enter these cities?

 

I live in a town with an approximately 8% Muslim population. Am I scared to walk the streets? No. Concerned sometimes, particularly on a Friday and Saturday night. But that's not because of Muslims, it's because of the frequent fights breaking out between drunks!

 

You say you served in Northern Ireland. I didn't, but was almost a victim of the Guildford pub bombs; I was on my way to join friends who were already in the Horse and Groom when the bomb went off.

 

But I never thought "The Irish scare me. We have no idea where the next terrorist attack will come from or how many innocents will be slaughtered in the name of Irish Republicanism. Whenever I see an Irish person I wonder if it is a terrorist. The PIRA and INLA have driven me to this state of mind."

 

As shown many times in many threads, Muslims of all sects have taken to the streets, and elsewhere, to condemn terrorist violence. But why do you demand this of them when you did not demand it of others.

 

As I said before

 

As someone who says he served in Northern Ireland, you must know how effective internment without trial was when Thatcher introduced it there! You must know that it made martyrs of those detained. You must know it acted as a recruitment tool for the terrorists.

 

The police already have powers to arrest and detain suspects for longer than is the norm under the Prevention of Terrorism Act.

 

 Those non British citizens convicted of terrorist related crimes can be, and usually are, deported once they have served their sentence; if not before.

 

Those who are naturalised British citizens have taken the following oath: "I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law."

 

Those who are British by birth, like the rest of us, haven't. Maybe there is an argument for UK schools to follow the custom in the USA of pupils taking the oath everyday?

 

Do you demand ex IRA members take the oath? Remember that Adams and McGuinness never took their seats in Parliament because they refused to do so. An oath every Muslim MP has happily taken.

 

Apologists? Who are these apologists and what are they apologising for?

 

Yes, we should get on with our lives and not be cowed by these evil acts; just as we did during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

Be aware; yes. Be cautious; yes. Report suspicious objects or activities; yes.

 

But the message coming from Manchester since this appalling atrocity is that we will not let these scum effect our lives; we will carry on.

 

You may want to hide in a hole somewhere, but I am at one with the people of Manchester and will not let the terrorists stop me from living my life.

 

As an ex soldier, you must be familiar with the name Jabron Hashmi. I put it to you that he is far more representative of British Muslims than any of the scum involved in the Manchester bombing or any other act of Islamic terrorism or extremism.

 

Brit drunks can be avoided, in fact a known drunken area can be avoided, but you cannot avoid a nutter with a bomb attached to him to go off and meet a heavenly bunch of birds...

[RickBradford]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

What is your point?

 

Making bombs, owning bombs and exploding bombs by members of the public are already illegal in the UK!

My point is that murderous atrocities carried out by British lunatics in the past caused the authorities to take decisive action.

 

Murderous atrocities carried out by Islamist jihadis nowadays cause the authorities to do nothing but suggest we all stand together and avoid hurting the feelings of Muslims in case they get offended and blow up some more children.

 

I think that the majority of British (and even European) citizens would like to see their governments take some action on this front, or at the very least accept that some action must be taken.

 

But they don't. Unless you count candlelit vigils as 'action'.

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Really? An ex soldier who served in Northern Ireland during the troubles is scared to enter these cities?

 

I live in a town with an approximately 8% Muslim population. Am I scared to walk the streets? No. Concerned sometimes, particularly on a Friday and Saturday night. But that's not because of Muslims, it's because of the frequent fights breaking out between drunks!

 

You say you served in Northern Ireland. I didn't, but was almost a victim of the Guildford pub bombs; I was on my way to join friends who were already in the Horse and Groom when the bomb went off.

 

But I never thought "The Irish scare me. We have no idea where the next terrorist attack will come from or how many innocents will be slaughtered in the name of Irish Republicanism. Whenever I see an Irish person I wonder if it is a terrorist. The PIRA and INLA have driven me to this state of mind."

 

As shown many times in many threads, Muslims of all sects have taken to the streets, and elsewhere, to condemn terrorist violence. But why do you demand this of them when you did not demand it of others.

 

As I said before

 

As someone who says he served in Northern Ireland, you must know how effective internment without trial was when Thatcher introduced it there! You must know that it made martyrs of those detained. You must know it acted as a recruitment tool for the terrorists.

 

The police already have powers to arrest and detain suspects for longer than is the norm under the Prevention of Terrorism Act.

 

 Those non British citizens convicted of terrorist related crimes can be, and usually are, deported once they have served their sentence; if not before.

 

Those who are naturalised British citizens have taken the following oath: "I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law."

 

Those who are British by birth, like the rest of us, haven't. Maybe there is an argument for UK schools to follow the custom in the USA of pupils taking the oath everyday?

 

Do you demand ex IRA members take the oath? Remember that Adams and McGuinness never took their seats in Parliament because they refused to do so. An oath every Muslim MP has happily taken.

 

Apologists? Who are these apologists and what are they apologising for?

 

Yes, we should get on with our lives and not be cowed by these evil acts; just as we did during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

Be aware; yes. Be cautious; yes. Report suspicious objects or activities; yes.

 

But the message coming from Manchester since this appalling atrocity is that we will not let these scum effect our lives; we will carry on.

 

You may want to hide in a hole somewhere, but I am at one with the people of Manchester and will not let the terrorists stop me from living my life.

 

As an ex soldier, you must be familiar with the name Jabron Hashmi. I put it to you that he is far more representative of British Muslims than any of the scum involved in the Manchester bombing or any other act of Islamic terrorism or extremism.

 

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/apologist

 

Clearly English is not your first language. Arabic?

[7by7]

Just now, transam said:

Brit drunks can be avoided, in fact a known drunken area can be avoided, but you cannot avoid a nutter with a bomb attached to him to go off and meet a heavenly bunch of birds...

Point missed by you again!

 

To elaborate for your benefit.

 

In most town centres these days, particularly at night, you are far more likely to be attacked by drunken brawlers than you are by Islamic terrorists.

 

But if, like Flustered, you want to quake in fear and avoid any town or city with a Muslim living in it; that is up to you.

 

Like most Brits, like the people of Manchester; I'm made of sterner stuff.