After summits with Trump, Merkel says Europe must take fate into own hands

[Andaman Al]

3 minutes ago, Flustered said:

And a polite answer.

 

The personal remark was "But that measure requires a degree of intelligence and insightfulness. You should try it.". 

 

Completely uncalled for as was your post which ignored the obvious personal remark and tried to focus on a different section.

 

It must be a very quiet, boring day out there. if trying to flame FMs is all you have to do.

"But that measure requires a degree of intelligence and insightfulness." period

 

New sentence "you should try it", therefore commending you to try it as it is something that requires one to display intelligence and insightfulness and he clearly thinks that pragmatic criticism would suit your style. So I did not ignore any 'obvious' personal remark. I applied some intelligence and insightfulness and saw a positive comment.

[Flustered]

54 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

"But that measure requires a degree of intelligence and insightfulness." period

I applied some intelligence and insightfulness and saw a positive comment.

Fine, as you feel it applies to you, consider that in your future posts.

[darksidedog]

19 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

He is right 23 of the 28 Countries In the EU are not meeting there Nato 2% of JDP, Germany is  paying 1.3%, France has only been paying into Nato since  the 1970s, Britain has been paying since 1947. But Europe is involved in 11 conflicts at the moment, So if they did not do that America would have to be Involved in peacekeeping.

The 2% agreement does not come into play until 2024, so right now the percentages each country is spending is completely irrelevant. Only a complete retard (You know who!), would expect a country to go from 1.3% or 1.5% to 2% overnight, which would be completely impractical. If, after 2024 any member nation is failing to pay in the agreed upon amount, that would be the time to call them out on it. Donald talking about non existent, unpaid bills is the height of stupidity, but what we have come to expect from him.

Looking through the posts today, it is clear that many people have absolutely no understanding of how NATO operates or the fact it has no central funding, or individual "bills", or that there is nothing in place before 2024 to dictate what should be spent by NATO members. Anything Donald says on this subject is just fodder for the stupid, that keeps them occupied and not focusing on how badly he is doing.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So from former Communist Party activist in a ruthless one party no dissent state she has blossomed into the leader of the free world (well in your opinion and that of many anti Trump Americans at least).

 

So it's ok for her, as German Chancellor to attempt to dictate EU policy? To simply tell other member states they must accept her idea of quotas on migrants; to tell other member states they cannot erect border fences when securing her own borders in response to electorate unrest; to refuse to meet her country's NATO obligations, which were agreed before she took office and on which she has previously ignored; and up to now, no one really knows at what point she and her government knew of the horrendous VW fraud on emissions. Truly "democratic" if you consider that's how democracy works.

Nothing to do with Anti Trump Americans, after all Trump is not interested in the rest of the world.

 

She is not dictating anything, that is all decided by all heads of states and parliament. But yes, if you want to be in a union one has to accept the policies of the union.

Where is she not meeting NATO obligations? 2% rule is not applicable yet, plus I see it getting adjusted anyway, way too high, only the US with its military industrial complex is meeting this and finds it reasonable.

The connection between VW and this topic is not clear to me.

[metisdead]

Posts containing personal remarks directed at other members have been removed, please remember this forum rule when posting:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[selftaopath]

7 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Just yesterday Donald was telling those dumb enough to believe him that his trip was a success. Merkel is clearly not in his fan base and recognises him for what he is, a danger to world peace. America is clearly no longer seen as the leader of the free world and in fact under Trump seems to want to renege on many of its commitments and promises. I pray that the US people will wake up and start to see what they have set in motion. Reasonable people, with the ability to think cannot pretend any longer that everything is OK.

I agree. Unfortunately reasonable people do not control government. Honestly it wouldn't shock me if the party in office changed it's name to "RussiaReps."  They continue putting party above country. I personally feel the entire party is comprised of bigots/racists. 

[JHolmesJr]

I don't see the big deal here…he is simply keeping another campaign promise.

 

Putting america first. He said he was gonna do it….he didnt just think it up on the 

kazi.

 

Let Merkel take europes fate in her own hands. 

 

The only reason this will benefit putin is because europe is too arrogant to keep its side of 

the defence bargain.

[Juan B Tong]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

History is actually starting to repeat itself and it seems with the same players as before

Warning!  Possible German bash follows:

 

Gosh!  Washington Post had the following to say today "Merkel, Europe’s de facto leader, told a packed beer hall rally in Munich that the days when her continent could rely on others was “over to a certain extent."

 

Wonder just what beer hall that rally was in?

[selftaopath]

5 hours ago, darksidedog said:

None of the NATO members has any obligation to pay 2% of GDP into defence until 2024. So none of them can be accused of not living up to their commitments. Please try to base your post on fact, rather then repeating falsehoods from Donald.

Also note that all NATO members have agreed to Article 5 that says they agree to assist America if it is ever attacked or needs help. Donald has not reciprocated. So, he wants NATO members to give the 2% seven years early, with NO guarantee that the US will hold up its side of the bargain if a European country is attacked.

And that is why Merkel recognises that the US can no longer be relied upon. 70 years of cooperation falling apart because of this idiot.

I wonder if Don and his defenders will ever understand what so many others do? Maybe a bit of reading and listening would help. Oh but then Don is the smartest man in the world so..... never mind. I guess his followers are exceptional too. 

 

With Don's brilliance maybe he will be glad to show his college transcript. I know he guards his tax info lest we see how he's in debt to Russia.

[whatawonderfulday]

Looks to me like the beginnings of another German power grab of Europe. They lost WW 2 militarily but have gone on to win economically due to the failure of the winners to eradicate the nation's economic might.  Maybe after the third attempt governments will finally realise that the extreme nationalism of Germany must be curtailed once and for all.  

[Andaman Al]

27 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

The only reason this will benefit putin is because europe is too arrogant to keep its side of 

the defence bargain.

Can you explain to us what this 'defence bargain is'?

[ilostmypassword]

38 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

I don't see the big deal here…he is simply keeping another campaign promise.

 

Putting america first. He said he was gonna do it….he didnt just think it up on the 

kazi.

 

Let Merkel take europes fate in her own hands. 

 

The only reason this will benefit putin is because europe is too arrogant to keep its side of 

the defence bargain.

 

11 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Can you explain to us what this 'defence bargain is'?

It's whatever Donald Trump says it is. And if that means different things on different tweets, so be it.

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, DiamondKing said:

MAYBE SHE SHOULD PAY HER BILL as well as the other 22 nations welching on their responsibilities 

TRUMP was spot on to call them out why the <deleted> should the USA pay for all these loser countries that are not paying their bills

You obviously don't understand the issue just like Trump.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

Debt gets written off by USA.

 

ROFL.

What debts?

[mikebike]

26 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Looks to me like the beginnings of another German power grab of Europe. They lost WW 2 militarily but have gone on to win economically due to the failure of the winners to eradicate the nation's economic might.  Maybe after the third attempt governments will finally realise that the extreme nationalism of Germany must be curtailed once and for all.  

I don't know if i have ever seen a post so entirely devoid of historical knowledge. Morgenthau Plan... Marshall Plan... Petersberg Agreement... USA policy never wanted to "eradicate the nation's economic wealth" they wanted to profit from the recovery of Europe, including then West Germany.

[Redline]

10 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Emporer Merkel seems to be powering on. Not only will she lead Europe but she will defeat it from within. She is a dictator in the making.that now wishs to not just destroy Germany but all Europe. She will divide and conquer.

I guess you are suggesting, like Trump, that elections aren't fair there.  Are you fake news?

 

7 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Exactly. Donald Trump got elected on an Anerica First platform. Germany is a rich country. They need tanks, fighter jets and German boys to face off the Russians. The Americans can sell the gear to them. Trade deficit gone. 

 

Well done President Trump.

 

Next up Japan. 

Ummmm, Europe makes a lot of nice weapons as well.

[Redline]

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

I don't see the big deal here…he is simply keeping another campaign promise.

 

Putting america first. He said he was gonna do it….he didnt just think it up on the 

kazi.

 

Let Merkel take europes fate in her own hands. 

 

The only reason this will benefit putin is because europe is too arrogant to keep its side of 

the defence bargain.

How many has he kept He just cries and complains.  "Nobody lets me do what I want, boo hoo.  Life's not fair, being President is hard, the press lies.  I never lie.  I have lots of friends.  My hands are strong". His poor wife.  It's nauseating.  He's a baby.  All he can do is sign executive orders that will be torn up in a few years.  He doesn't read or use a computer....The guy is a lost false hope and false person.  See, I can be nice!

[Grouse]

9 hours ago, DiamondKing said:

MAYBE SHE SHOULD PAY HER BILL as well as the other 22 nations welching on their responsibilities 

TRUMP was spot on to call them out why the <deleted> should the USA pay for all these loser countries that are not paying their bills

What bill(s)?

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, DiamondKing said:

 

Why should he not renege ????

23 Nations have reneged by NOT PAYING their share of NATO expenses in fact many are years behind including GERMANY 

Wrong

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, me313 said:

Trump/The US is: Trying to pry the gorging, over-fed partner(s) of the EU, who decades after the stabilizing Marshall Plan,   continue to hold hands out, demanding more out of the money vacuum sucking the life and resources out of the US in the never-ending money drain of the post-WWII Marshall Plan. By removing some of the resource drain tentacles of the EU off the host, the US, is helping the slowly-being-killed empire,  the "dying animal", get back on it's feet...

Wrong

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Franko666 said:

A nice twist on not paying your bills, just deferred until the the said Countries are in so much debt it get written off by USA. Good one but it aint going to happen on his Trumps watch.

Incorrect

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

The Ukraine were about to join the EU and Russia doesn't like it, they are now being bullied by Russia - history repeating itself, what exactly is Germany/EU going to do about it.................absolutely nothing without the US  the UK and Nato.

 

There is currently a dangerous standoff going on across the world right now were certain Nations and leaders are wanting stuff and/or wanting to dominate or take - even settle old scores 

Read some history about Russia. Maybe then you will understand why they don't want enemies at the gates 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So from former Communist Party activist in a ruthless one party no dissent state she has blossomed into the leader of the free world (well in your opinion and that of many anti Trump Americans at least).

 

So it's ok for her, as German Chancellor to attempt to dictate EU policy? To simply tell other member states they must accept her idea of quotas on migrants; to tell other member states they cannot erect border fences when securing her own borders in response to electorate unrest; to refuse to meet her country's NATO obligations, which were agreed before she took office and on which she has previously ignored; and up to now, no one really knows at what point she and her government knew of the horrendous VW fraud on emissions. Truly "democratic" if you consider that's how democracy works.

Wow! That's got to be a record. You are just wrong 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Looks to me like the beginnings of another German power grab of Europe. They lost WW 2 militarily but have gone on to win economically due to the failure of the winners to eradicate the nation's economic might.  Maybe after the third attempt governments will finally realise that the extreme nationalism of Germany must be curtailed once and for all.  

Objectionable codswallop. Read up on the history

[CGW]

9 hours ago, Juan B Tong said:

Today's bashing comments seem to be anti Trump and USA as usual with special guest targets the Germans and Australians.  Great for a rainy day in Pattaya.

Yep! & the usual voices whinging on about USA not being the leader of the "freeworld" they fail to see just what the USA has done in recent years! Not a lot of "freeworld" left out there! that has been invaded or had a US base imposed on them!

[Grouse]

Apologies for being late on parade

 

Im actually quite horrified about how little people know about NATO and European history generally. Shameful actually. I will not explain the NATO members' defence spend agreement as it should be common knowledge.

 

I a quite pro Germany for multiple reasons. However the idea of them spending 2% of their large GDP, backdated, seems, er, unwise.

 

I think Europe should look at a post America defence system. Trump has made a laughing stock of himself because of his ignorance. Sadly, we can not rely upon our cousins.

[whatawonderfulday]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

I don't know if i have ever seen a post so entirely devoid of historical knowledge. Morgenthau Plan... Marshall Plan... Petersberg Agreement... USA policy never wanted to "eradicate the nation's economic wealth" they wanted to profit from the recovery of Europe, including then West Germany.

You have completely missed the point. It is because of the Marshall Plan that Germany are now in the position they are in now moving ever closer to their historic nationalistic goals.  It should never have happened and the Germans, after being responsible for 2 world wars and countless European misery,  should, in my opinion,  never ever have been in a position that they are in now.

[darksidedog]

9 hours ago, DiamondKing said:

 

Why should he not renege ????

23 Nations have reneged by NOT PAYING their share of NATO expenses in fact many are years behind including GERMANY 

I really don't enjoy ripping into people, especially not twice in a day, but your post deserves this.

No one has reneged on anything with the exception of Donald Trump refusing to confirm support for article 5 which requires members to come to each others aid when needed. All other NATO members have done so. This is the only thing anyone has reneged upon. Got that so far? Trump is the one reneging, or at least not confirming America will hold its side of the deal.

No member of NATO has reneged on ANY payments whatsoever. Please feel free to post a link if you can show otherwise.

I have explained this to you once today already, but I will try again and use small words where possible.

There is no NATO bill. Post a link if this is incorrect.

There is no percentage of GDP that members have to pay until 2024. That is seven years away. Post a link if this is incorrect.

There are no debts. Post a link if this is incorrect.

Everyone at the moment pays for their own military and joins international operations as needed. Post a link if this is incorrect.

After 2024, if someone isn't paying you may comment on them all you like.

For the moment though, your comments are utter rubbish.

Oh, and as for links, BS spouted by Donald, which everyone knows are lies, don't count.

Edited May 29, 2017 by darksidedog

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

You have completely missed the point. It is because of the Marshall Plan that Germany are now in the position they are in now moving ever closer to their historic nationalistic goals.  It should never have happened and the Germans, after being responsible for 2 world wars and countless European misery,  should, in my opinion,  never ever have been in a position that they are in now.

Nonsense, the UK received much more from the Marshall Plan.

 

Tell us, who was responsible for WW1? ( tee hee)

 

What about Versailles?

 

What role did the Soviets play in WW2 ?

 

Which NAZI said to Churchill "it should have been you and us against the Americans to protect civilisation?

 

Now, what was your point?

[JHolmesJr]

2 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Can you explain to us what this 'defence bargain is'?

i don't think you will understand…..your mind is too clouded with using google to discredit the president.

 

this is how he deals…. instead of letting people walk all over the usa…no more nonsense….pay up or pay the price.