If SNP wins election in Scotland, PM May will have to grant independence vote -Sturgeon

[webfact]

If SNP wins election in Scotland, PM May will have to grant independence vote -Sturgeon

REUTERS

 

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon reacts to the attack in Manchester as she speaks to journalists in Edinburgh, Britain May 23, 2017. REUTERS/David Cheskin/Pool

 

LONDON (Reuters) - If the Scottish National Party wins the most seats in Scotland at a June 8 election, Prime Minister Theresa May's refusal to agree to a second independence referendum will be unsustainable, Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said on Sunday.

 

The SNP, which won 56 of parliament's 59 Scottish seats at the last election in 2015, has said Scots should get another say on independence once the terms of Britain's EU exit are clear.

 

Polls show the SNP is set to easily win in Scotland in June, though May's Conservatives are expected to take some seats from them as the issue of keeping the United Kingdom together takes centre stage.

 

May has said now is not the time to discuss a fresh independence vote. Scots rejected independence by 10 percentage points in 2014 and support for secession since then is little changed.

 

"If the SNP win the election on June 8 in Scotland, and I am taking nothing for granted, ... then I think that position of the prime minister is unsustainable," Sturgeon said in an interview with the BBC.

 

She said the win would add weight to the SNP's victory in the Scottish election last year and a vote in the Scottish parliament giving her a fresh mandate to seek a new referendum.

 

Sturgeon pointed to other times May has changed her mind.

 

On Monday May was forced to backtrack on one of her Conservative Party's most high-profile election pledges to force elderly people to pay more for their social care after her opinion poll lead halved.

 

"In politics positions quickly become unsustainable and we have seen in the last few days ... this is not a prime minister who is very good at holding positions under pressure. She is a prime minister that has seemed to perfect the art of the U-turn," Sturgeon said.

 

The SNP will insist on Scotland's right to decide its own future as Britain leaves the European Union when it sets out is pre-election policy document on Tuesday.

 

Sturgeon, who said she wants an independent Scotland to be a full member of the EU, argues that a new choice is needed because Scots voted to stay in the bloc in a referendum last June, at odds with the overall vote to leave.

 

(Reporting by Kylie MacLellan, Editing by David Evans and Stephen Powell)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-29

[darksidedog]

Sorry Nicola, but Scotland is coming along for the ride. Support for independence isn't there and even if it was, it would take longer to break from the UK, than for the UK to break from Europe. I don't see this being a realistic agenda until at least a goodly period after Brexit is completed.

[oxo1947]

You gotta hand it to Nicola Sturgeon  She's always clean shaven..............

[smedly]

Scotland want Join a sinking ship, you will need handouts - the handouts don't come free, take a look at Greece,  pensions - benefits - banking - education - health service - policing, Independent Scotland right????  -  you will need bailouts/handouts and conditions applied the same as Greece.

 

and you will have to adopt the Euro currency 

and when Scotland leaves the UK a huge share of current UK debt with go with you, UK contracts in defence will be moved to other parts of the UK

 

everything that is funded from the UK that is free will no longer be available 

Maybe Sturbitch will fund it herself in her new (UN)independent Scotland as you join the 2 speed EU - which speed do you think you will be joining lol

 

[smedly]

23 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

You gotta hand it to Nicola Sturgeon  She's always clean shaven..............

LMAO

 

I'll vote that funniest comment of the week.

 

 

[bristolgeoff]

for sure the snp will win Scotland,they hold most of the seats anyway.she wants out of the union and into the eu corrupt club.they will be like Greece getting handouts.please help us.i think the scots will lose more by joining the eu and not leaving it.this woman has a one track mind leave the union

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Scots rejected independence by 10 percentage points in 2014 and support for secession since then is little changed.

Surely we rejected it by 5.3% plus 1 vote?  As for support for independence, a google search for 'support for Scottish Independence'  brings up a mixed bag of articles from recent months, with increases and decreases in support both being proclaimed in relatively equal measure, depending upon the publication and the poll.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

for sure the snp will win Scotland,they hold most of the seats anyway.she wants out of the union and into the eu corrupt club.they will be like Greece getting handouts.please help us.i think the scots will lose more by joining the eu and not leaving it.this woman has a one track mind leave the union

What if we were to break from the UK and also remain outside the EU? As a Brexit supporter (my assumption), can you understand that aspiration?

[Laughing Gravy]

New thread same theme. What happened to not in another generation from her no 2 Alex Salmond. I have said before I am happy for the Scots to leave and I know many English are feeling they should be having a vote, to see if we want them in the UK.  I see NS is piping on the same old rhetoric but can't answer questions on her governments handling of finances. No doubt RR and other pro independence will be supporting her and good luck. NS wants in the EU not away from it, so I hope the Scots are not daft enough to keep her from answering and  being held accountable for the mess Scotland is in.

[RuamRudy]

24 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

New thread same theme. What happened to not in another generation from her no 2 Alex Salmond. I have said before I am happy for the Scots to leave and I know many English are feeling they should be having a vote, to see if we want them in the UK.  I see NS is piping on the same old rhetoric but can't answer questions on her governments handling of finances. No doubt RR and other pro independence will be supporting her and good luck. NS wants in the EU not away from it, so I hope the Scots are not daft enough to keep her from answering and  being held accountable for the mess Scotland is in.

This old canard about Scotland being in a mess - have you looked at the rest of the UK, and the utter chaos that Tory austerity policies have created? NHS England is a disaster; Policing in England - well, enough, sadly, said about that in recent days; the prison service; immigration service; the economy - need I go on? Scotland is not without its challenges, but our government is performing better in the vast majority of areas within its competence, whereas the rest of the UK seems set to return a government intent of furthering its push to make the UK more diminished by the day. And you have the gall to talk about accountability?????

 

Now I very much dislike the 'we are better than you' type of argument because nobody has room to be smug, but when the only course of attack is to comment on the speck of dust in our eye while ignoring the beam in your own, it riles me.

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

On Monday May was forced to backtrack on one of her Conservative Party's most high-profile election pledges to force elderly people to pay more for their social care after her opinion poll lead halved.

Yes Theresa never underestimate grey power. I think the opinion polls just made you a little to cocky when it comes to robbing the poor and you soon backed off. I am sure if you were ever above board on how much you are handing over to your supporters the elite and rich the rest of your popularity would vaporize as well. Watch your step Theresa the electorate is very volatile. 10 Downing Street could prove to be only a temporary residence for you. 

[elgordo38]

The Scottish Terrier barks yet again. 

[champers]

If the SNP share of the vote reduces; from 2015 levels; and/or seats are lost then Nicola Sturgeon will be sat in a canoe without a paddle. This election could see her demise.

[Basil B]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

If the Scottish National Party wins the most seats in Scotland at a June 8 election, Prime Minister Theresa May's refusal to agree to a second independence referendum will be unsustainable, Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said on Sunday.

So if the SNP loose nearly half their MP's Sturgeon will call it a victory...  

 

Me think if the SNP substantially increase their number of MP's then she may have a point to argue for a second referendum.

 

[Nigel Garvie]

"Now I very much dislike the 'we are better than you' type of argument because nobody has room to be smug, but when the only course of attack is to comment on the speck of dust in our eye while ignoring the beam in your own, it riles me."

It's a pleasure to read the post that ends with this comment. Unlike so many others on this forum, it attempts to address the issue rather than simply resorting to brainless abuse. Scotland's share of the UK debt would be pocket money for Norway to pay off from their oil fund. A fund that Scotland could have had themselves had the income not been frittered away in tax cuts for the rich. Let the little Englanders sail off into the Atlantic with their sad Tory Brexiteer dream of an Empire that ended decades ago. Scotland needs to cease being a colony of England and remain in a decent civilised progressive European Union.

Incidentaly, recently, from the FT,  "Eurozone economy quietly outshines the US". "14 consecutive quarters of growth". "Business confidence proves to be resilient despite Brexit" ...etc...etc.

By comparison "UK economy slows more than expected as inflation bites" The Guardian/BBC/FT.

Brexit Britain is heading for a serious fall in GDP just as predicted.

 

[onthesoi]

19 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Me think if the SNP substantially increase their number of MP's then she may have a point to argue for a second referendum.

 

The SNP already hold 56 out of a possible 59 seats, so Im not sure how you can expect them to "substantially increase" their number of seats?!?!?!?!?

 

Maybe a picture will clarify which political party currently holds the democratic will of the Scottish people, ergo who has the democratic right to confirm or deny a second referendum:

 

SNP in yellow....

 

 

 

Compare to the current government, May/Tories who only currently hold 331 of a possible 650 seats....

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by onthesoi

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

This old canard about Scotland being in a mess - have you looked at the rest of the UK, and the utter chaos that Tory austerity policies have created? NHS England is a disaster; Policing in England - well, enough, sadly, said about that in recent days; the prison service; immigration service; the economy - need I go on? Scotland is not without its challenges, but our government is performing better in the vast majority of areas within its competence, whereas the rest of the UK seems set to return a government intent of furthering its push to make the UK more diminished by the day. And you have the gall to talk about accountability?????

 

Now I very much dislike the 'we are better than you' type of argument because nobody has room to be smug, but when the only course of attack is to comment on the speck of dust in our eye while ignoring the beam in your own, it riles me.

 

Do you seriously think Police Scotland would've prevented a determined suicide bomber? Maybe, but not based on their sterling performances since inception. How long  did they leave poor accident victims in their crashed car for?

 

Only SNP supporters maintain how wonderful they are performing. If the performance is that good, on health, education, crime how come they details aren't being splashed for all to see and held up as shining examples for the whole of Europe. And their financial performance is how good?

 

You've only got to watch Sturgeon's performance with Andrew Neil and her avoidance of giving straight answers to smell the bullshit she trots out.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, onthesoi said:

 

The SNP already hold 56 out of a possible 59 seats, so Im not sure how you can expect them to "substantially increase" their number of seats?!?!?!?!?

 

Maybe a picture will clarify which political party currently holds the democratic will of the Scottish people, ergo who has the democratic right to confirm or deny a second referendum:

 

SNP in yellow....

 

 

 

 

 

Democratic right - so a minority of around 8% of the population have the right say how a country is made up?

 

Rollocks.

 

The country is the UK, The nationality is British. Any changes to that must be voted on by all the population not just a small % who want to whinge and whine and pretend their special.

 

Tail wagging dog. May, or Corbyn, or whoever occupies No.10 must look after the whole country. 

[onthesoi]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Democratic right - so a minority of around 8% of the population have the right say how a country is made up?

 

Rollocks.

 

The country is the UK, The nationality is British. Any changes to that must be voted on by all the population not just a small % who want to whinge and whine and pretend their special.

 

Tail wagging dog. May, or Corbyn, or whoever occupies No.10 must look after the whole country. 

 

Your calculator is broken if you think 56 is only 8% of 59......following your logic the entire EU should have been allowed to vote in the recent Brexit referendum.....obviously that would be an equally rediculous thing to suggest.

 

Did you not get the memo on devolution?

Edited May 29, 2017 by onthesoi

[Baerboxer]

14 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

"Now I very much dislike the 'we are better than you' type of argument because nobody has room to be smug, but when the only course of attack is to comment on the speck of dust in our eye while ignoring the beam in your own, it riles me."

It's a pleasure to read the post that ends with this comment. Unlike so many others on this forum, it attempts to address the issue rather than simply resorting to brainless abuse. Scotland's share of the UK debt would be pocket money for Norway to pay off from their oil fund. A fund that Scotland could have had themselves had the income not been frittered away in tax cuts for the rich. Let the little Englanders sail off into the Atlantic with their sad Tory Brexiteer dream of an Empire that ended decades ago. Scotland needs to cease being a colony of England and remain in a decent civilised progressive European Union.

Incidentaly, recently, from the FT,  "Eurozone economy quietly outshines the US". "14 consecutive quarters of growth". "Business confidence proves to be resilient despite Brexit" ...etc...etc.

By comparison "UK economy slows more than expected as inflation bites" The Guardian/BBC/FT.

Brexit Britain is heading for a serious fall in GDP just as predicted.

 

 

Us, us, us. Only Scotland would've gone down the pan years ago, way before North Sea Oil, without the support and subsidies from the rest of the UK.

 

It's this false historic Walter Scott and Braveheart fairy tale image of Scotland that so many rebels seem to want to believe. "Scotland a colony" shows the  nationalistic mentality. And as we know, nationalism and socialism make dangerous partners.

 

Scotland isn't and independent nation, and the UK isn't a federal state. 

[Nigel Garvie]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Do you seriously think Police Scotland would've prevented a determined suicide bomber? Maybe, but not based on their sterling performances since inception. How long  did they leave poor accident victims in their crashed car for?

 

Only SNP supporters maintain how wonderful they are performing. If the performance is that good, on health, education, crime how come they details aren't being splashed for all to see and held up as shining examples for the whole of Europe. And their financial performance is how good?

 

You've only got to watch Sturgeon's performance with Andrew Neil and her avoidance of giving straight answers to smell the bullshit she trots out.

As they say "The proof of the pudding.....".  Why on earth does anyone imagine that the people of Scotland would have voted overwhelmingly for the SNP time and again, if they believed that the SNP were not performing reasonably well. No one claims that they are performing "wonderful" or wonderfully as it is more usually put, very few governments do do that, anywhere.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Yes Theresa never underestimate grey power. I think the opinion polls just made you a little to cocky when it comes to robbing the poor and you soon backed off. I am sure if you were ever above board on how much you are handing over to your supporters the elite and rich the rest of your popularity would vaporize as well. Watch your step Theresa the electorate is very volatile. 10 Downing Street could prove to be only a temporary residence for you. 

 

Isn't that what we really want from all politicians, whichever party? Listen to the electorate and have the courage to change policies to take our views into account? (The exact opposite of the SNP btw).

 

In the past people have voted for one party or another because they always did, their parents and family did, etc etc. No people are becoming more challenging which can only be good for democracy.

[onthesoi]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

It's this false historic Walter Scott and Braveheart fairy tale image of Scotland that so many rebels seem to want to believe. "Scotland a colony" shows the  nationalistic mentality. And as we know, nationalism and socialism make dangerous partners.

 

You were banging on about British nationalism 2 mins ago, try to keep up with yourself lest you be hypocritical.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Nigel Garvie said:

As they say "The proof of the pudding.....".  Why on earth does anyone imagine that the people of Scotland would have voted overwhelmingly for the SNP time and again, if they believed that the SNP were not performing reasonably well. No one claims that they are performing "wonderful" or wonderfully as it is more usually put, very few governments do do that, anywhere.

 

Quite frankly Nigel, given the other choices it's hardly surprising. Scots traditionally don't support the Tories. Labor is less use than a chocolate tea pot these days and the Libs seem to have all but ceased as a serious contender.

 

Many SNP voters don't support trying to leave the UK and visa versa. Strange world we live in.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

You were banging on about British nationalism 2 mins ago, try to keep up with yourself lest you be hypocritical.

 

What are you on about? If you're having comprehension issues say so and we'll try and simplify it to help.

[khunken]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Democratic right - so a minority of around 8% of the population have the right say how a country is made up?

 

Rollocks.

 

The country is the UK, The nationality is British. Any changes to that must be voted on by all the population not just a small % who want to whinge and whine and pretend their special.

 

Tail wagging dog. May, or Corbyn, or whoever occupies No.10 must look after the whole country. 

All the population of the Britain? Well let us know when the British will apply that same 'rule' to Ireland.

 

There is so much hypocrisy about this subject that the Welsh much be having a good laugh.

[daveAustin]

Scotland, Independence, etc, how boring. Wish you'd never joined up. You of course have so much going for you, don't need no money from anyone, well tooled up to stave off a land grab from the Russians, a resurgent Germany, whoever. When you do go, just don't blame any failure on your sick to the back teeth neighbours. Of the switched on jocks that don't want any part of it, you could always renounce your citizenship. 

[Nigel Garvie]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Quite frankly Nigel, given the other choices it's hardly surprising. Scots traditionally don't support the Tories. Labor is less use than a chocolate tea pot these days and the Libs seem to have all but ceased as a serious contender.

 

Many SNP voters don't support trying to leave the UK and visa versa. Strange world we live in.

 

 

It is worth looking at the Scottish Parliament which is based on a form of PR. All the parties have a decent representation. In Westminster you get a choice between a venal far right intent on feathering it's own nest, and a left wing party currently devoid of adequate communicators that the general public will listen to.

 

"Many SNP voters don't support trying to leave the UK and visa versa". I think using visa versa here is unwise, it suggests "Many UK (Voters) don't support leaving the SNP" which is nonsense. I guess you meant to say is "......whereas some people who do vote for other (Unionist) parties in Scotland do however support independence."

..........must go to work now and leave the pensioners forum!

 

 

 

 

[onthesoi]

Its so heart warming to see all the English nationalists concerned for the welfare of Scots if they go it alone...based on this thread, the scots can be safe in the knowledge if things should go pear shaped there will be plenty off food parcels coming over the border.

Edited May 29, 2017 by onthesoi

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Nigel Garvie said:

It is worth looking at the Scottish Parliament which is based on a form of PR. All the parties have a decent representation. In Westminster you get a choice between a venal far right intent on feathering it's own nest, and a left wing party currently devoid of adequate communicators that the general public will listen to.

 

"Many SNP voters don't support trying to leave the UK and visa versa". I think using visa versa here is unwise, it suggests "Many UK (Voters) don't support leaving the SNP" which is nonsense. I guess you meant to say is "......whereas some people who do vote for other (Unionist) parties in Scotland do however support independence."

..........must go to work now and leave the pensioners forum!

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, working and a pensioner - glad your're still fit. Good to see you can still apply mental agility and thought devoid of so many responses.

 

PR was touted by the Libs at one point. Just didn't seem to garner support. PR can be a good thing, arguable fairer, but can also create the stale mates that Italy and Belgium have seen; or the dominance that German has seen of two parties in providing the chancellor.