Woman wrongly diagnosed with HIV 15 years ago seeks to sue hospital

[louse1953]

41 minutes ago, RBOP said:

Let me clarify something for you. Having HIV is not a death sentence like it use to be 35 years ago. HIV is a manageable disease just like diabetes for example. Persons that are HIV+ve nowadays can live a normal lifespan as long as they take their meds. The stigmatism and discrimination that HIV+ve people go through is now worse than the disease itself. People really need to get education on this subject.

Thats ok for you to say,try that on in rural Thailand

[klauskunkel]

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

tried to contact its director Dr Chuchai Temtanakitpaisarn, but were informed that he was away for a meeting outside the hospital.

hospital director, school director, same same and not at all different

[RBOP]

3 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Thats ok for you to say,try that on in rural Thailand

Try what in rural Thailand?

[wvavin]

There are unbelievable perpetual meetings in every sectors within this country but did not see any substantial development so far!

[Yann55]

19 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

2 hours ago, DGS1244 said:

Something rather strange about this story. 15 years with no intermediate test, doesn't compute. Anyone who is positive and on treatment normally has a yearly re-test to determine if the medication needs to be changed or modified. If not yearly certainly more than once in 15 years.

Yes.. my thoughts exactly.. 

 

And mine as well.

 

I just re-read the article carefully and the inconsistencies are beyond weird :

 

1/ First time the result comes back positive, but it's not followed by an immediate second test as it always should. How come ? How could a hospital ignore such basic protocole ?

 

2/ She goes on medication, so even though she doesn't get tested for HIV again (as it is assumed she is positive), for sure she must have gone through a check up of her viral load (and that, again, is basic protocole) which must have shown that she was perfectly OK.

 

3/ She has another HIV test when she's 19 ie 11 years later. That test shows that she's not positive, so the first thing to do (again) would be an immediate recheck ... but that doesn't happen until 4 years later, when she's 23 ! What the heck ?

 

So ... I don't know what's wrong here - whether it's the girls story, or the medical system, or bad reporting from the media. Perhaps it's a combination of all three. Anyway with so much BS it's impossible to form a rational opinion.

 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, realenglish1 said:

There are people that had HIV and after a number of years on medication had been disease free  This may be the case and a defense the hospital will make I am sure of it 

 

There is only 2 cases, both of which are test cases (one of a CR5 gene mutation bone marrow transplant and patient A05). 

 

Perhaps you are miss understanding being healthy with the virus undetectable, as happens with medication for many, and being disease free. Otherwise please state who the people you claim are, it simply isnt correct, 

[nasanews]

Sad story with a happy ending.

[DerekMarshall]

Excuse me for being cynical but she has known she is HIV positive all her life given her age then turn up at a Red Cross who were giving anonymous and free tests, turns up with a lawyer and allows the media to film the test? sorry but speaks of a girl overdosing on the antivirals in order to obtain a negative result a sue - which of course can indeed be a false negative.

 

Full chemical analysis of her blood sample required before I believe this one. It is after all known as Lieland for a reason and she did turn up at the Thai Red Cross Society’s Anonymous Clinic for HIV test knowing she was HIV positive with a lawyer! 

[shamrock09]

3 hours ago, JohnnyBKK said:

None of the actual HIV tests are 100% reliable. So none of the people diagnosted with HIV are sure 100% to have it.

No test is 100% accurate. Always good to ask for a second and even a third opinion.

[Chris Lawrence]

3 hours ago, JohnnyBKK said:

None of the actual HIV tests are 100% reliable. So none of the people diagnosted with HIV are sure 100% to have it.

I wouldn't run with that idea too far Johny. Have a read of this site:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095005/  

 

I don't know where you got your information but if it was a good thought, it isn't. There are a few tests that will confirm the virus. Very few false positives are received. Usually to confirm in another test a PCR test is used.

 

Guys be very careful when you express comments like this, as someone may believe it. Always if its not on its not on.

[IMA_FARANG]

Unfortunately  there is a culture bias in Thailand that says you don't question a doctor.

You see that all the time especially upcountry.

Thais ae often told to take pills or injections, and they do not understand the explanation.

But just because they are taught not to question authority figures, they accept what they think they are told, even when they really don't understand the instructions fully.

 

 

 

[Shaunduhpostman]

I for one cheer her on for her proactive response, even if one can't imagine that she stands much of chance against a Thai doctor or the Thai medical establishment if it eventually comes to that. They probably told her she had HIV because they wanted to sell her the drugs which she likely could hardly afford. It is totally disgusting but par for the course. What she must have went through thinking she was HIV positive just so someone could make a sale or go on saving face by no having to say to patients, "HIV tests are 100% accurate, you might want to get tested a second time or get a second opinion."  That said, I am sure that already she is helping raise awareness regarding the hazard and danger even to people's very life  that Thailand the medical tourism hub presents to the world. However I feel sorry for people of every stripe in any country who go to doctors naively thinking they have the answers or are even concerned with getting them. It seems Suthida fell into that by simply accepting the diagnosis she was initially given. In my 55 years of surviving predatory doctors in the states who nearly killed me when I was still a child revolving around my problems with asthma I have come to understand that it is all about their making money off of your problems and you have to have your wits about you, ask questions and get them to be as clear about what vague things they are saying to you about your condition and nail them them to the wall. Too many doctors are just trying to play you. It is an outrage to me that there is scarcely any sentiment to be heard round the world about the atrocity that is so many doctors and medical establishments. It is your body your health your money and even your life at stake and unfortunately many doctors everywhere are well backed up by power structures so that they can smugly sit up there and do and think otherwise, that it is all about their income their convenience and their career etc. Make you into an HIV pariah, let you go through your childhood in and out of emergency rooms when a puff of non-prescription asthma medicine such as Bronch Aid solves the problem yeah, no skin off my teeth I just made 50 bucks off of you. My parents were told that it was bad for a childs hormone balance to take asthma medicine. Interesting that it was always the same doctor working in the emergency room when I was 75% through deaths door and then given massive amounts of adrenaline which is not nice. But like my parents It is too bad there was not even the notion that one ought to get second opinions in this woman Suthida's mind.  She like me has had to learn that the hard way. I would not expect anything else though in Thailand because the culture considers any kind of questioning and probing of the most superficial kind to be anathema. You don't even question your superiors such as doctors, even in your mind. But getting second opinions etc and with a modicum of common sense you'll see there is much wrong with half the diagnoses and treatments you are given by at least half of the Thai doctors. But go to many doctors and you can eventually get things worked out. Unfortunately many Thais and I would bet expats don't and simply take the doctors dianoses that there is nothing wrong with them when there is or that they need to have their foot amputated or eye removed when there is nothing wrong with either of those as I have. It doesn't matter if you are not a cheap charlie, what you get is not improved doctors and treatment but doctors with better English skills and modern facilities and slick brochures. Of course there is nothing wrong with those and it helps but if the doctor is some kind entitled psycopath with a medical degree then what does it matter that you understand whatever line he is giving you to suit him/herself  and his/her needs alone. The assumption seems to run with many and in the past it did with me that there were significantly better doctors for ten times the cost at the premium level health facilities. Its just better marketing mostly and the same culture of disregard for human life, same sense that one only need do the bare minimum or even less so as to be sabai sabai that Suthida would have seen in Roi Et. The culture does not go away just because you step through doors at the modern facilities of wherever, take your pick in Bangkok, and dig deep into your wallet for much more expensive treatment. In a way it is more dangerous to go to the upmarket places charging top dollar as you will be more prone to not question the results because of the seemingly professional seemingly caring environment which given the predatory streak that some doctors represent  it clearly is not. I am gratfeul to the many medical professionals whom you can eventually get help from but that doesn't mean anyone is an ingrate a whiner etc because they speak out against whole leagues of frankly dangerous and exploitative opportunists. Go Suthida, the doctors in this country need to be reigned in. I am so fed up with going for treatment and having doctors opening me up while laughing and yucking it up hardly even paying attention to what they are doing, it must be so unsanook to take your job seriously so fed up with "we will get back to you with the results" and you never hear from them again. "Oh kor tort, that doctor he transferred to another hospital. Sorry we no have the result about your condition." 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Shaunduhpostman
to fix typos

[SiSePuede419]

OK, theses tests look for antibodies that attack HIV.  Are there other antibodies similar that it's getting confused?  ?

[paz]

2 hours ago, al007 said:

The lady needs to be very careful or the hospital will sue her for defamation, if she tries to name and shame

 In Thailand even if you are correct you will be liable

Typical foreigner ignorance about Thai law. If suing someone was enough sentenced for defamation, nobody would dare to start legal action ever. Guess what, that's not the case.

[Chris Lawrence]

13 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

OK, theses tests look for antibodies that attack HIV.  Are there other antibodies similar that it's getting confused?  ?

Look at this page Si:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095005/ 

[bazza73]

How can an eight-year-old be diagnosed with HIV, unless incest was involved? Something doesn't add up.

[mlmcleod]

The HIV tests administered 15 years ago had a false positive rate of about 5%.  Most governments know this and do not hold the doctors or test manufacturers liable for a misdiagnosis.  I doubt this woman will ever receive any apology or money for a misdiagnosis of this nature.  I do think she should be thankful that she does not have HIV.  Sadly, that will probably be all she ever gets as far as compensation.

 

Please don't get mad, it is just my opinion!

[ThaiWai]

7 hours ago, dcnx said:

Sounds terrifying.

Sure does.   Buurrrrr got a chill down my spine thinking about being celibate.

[ThaiWai]

So she had unprotected sex and got pregnant by her husband who "didn't care" that she had HIV? That's commitment.

Edited June 3, 2017 by ThaiWai

[HHTel]

5 hours ago, DerekMarshall said:

Excuse me for being cynical but she has known she is HIV positive all her life given her age then turn up at a Red Cross who were giving anonymous and free tests, turns up with a lawyer and allows the media to film the test? sorry but speaks of a girl overdosing on the antivirals in order to obtain a negative result a sue - which of course can indeed be a false negative.

 

Full chemical analysis of her blood sample required before I believe this one. It is after all known as Lieland for a reason and she did turn up at the Thai Red Cross Society’s Anonymous Clinic for HIV test knowing she was HIV positive with a lawyer! 

Quote

She had previously tested at other hospitals but came to the clinic for an official result. 

Suggest you read carefully before commenting.

[whaleboneman]

12 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

if i was her i would be celebrating, not litigating.

Looks like she can multi-task. I wish her luck in her legal action.

[bangkokairportlink]

Perfect Thai people who trust only 1 stupid doctor and do not check more in such important case...

 

 

[whaleboneman]

9 hours ago, Shaunduhpostman said:

I for one cheer her on for her proactive response, even if one can't imagine that she stands much of chance against a Thai doctor or the Thai medical establishment if it eventually comes to that. They probably told her she had HIV because they wanted to sell her the drugs which she likely could hardly afford. It is totally disgusting but par for the course. What she must have went through thinking she was HIV positive just so someone could make a sale or go on saving face by no having to say to patients, "HIV tests are 100% accurate, you might want to get tested a second time or get a second opinion."  That said, I am sure that already she is helping raise awareness regarding the hazard and danger even to people's very life  that Thailand the medical tourism hub presents to the world. However I feel sorry for people of every stripe in any country who go to doctors naively thinking they have the answers or are even concerned with getting them. It seems Suthida fell into that by simply accepting the diagnosis she was initially given. In my 55 years of surviving predatory doctors in the states who nearly killed me when I was still a child revolving around my problems with asthma I have come to understand that it is all about their making money off of your problems and you have to have your wits about you, ask questions and get them to be as clear about what vague things they are saying to you about your condition and nail them them to the wall. Too many doctors are just trying to play you. It is an outrage to me that there is scarcely any sentiment to be heard round the world about the atrocity that is so many doctors and medical establishments. It is your body your health your money and even your life at stake and unfortunately many doctors everywhere are well backed up by power structures so that they can smugly sit up there and do and think otherwise, that it is all about their income their convenience and their career etc. Make you into an HIV pariah, let you go through your childhood in and out of emergency rooms when a puff of non-prescription asthma medicine such as Bronch Aid solves the problem yeah, no skin off my teeth I just made 50 bucks off of you. My parents were told that it was bad for a childs hormone balance to take asthma medicine. Interesting that it was always the same doctor working in the emergency room when I was 75% through deaths door and then given massive amounts of adrenaline which is not nice. But like my parents It is too bad there was not even the notion that one ought to get second opinions in this woman Suthida's mind.  She like me has had to learn that the hard way. I would not expect anything else though in Thailand because the culture considers any kind of questioning and probing of the most superficial kind to be anathema. You don't even question your superiors such as doctors, even in your mind. But getting second opinions etc and with a modicum of common sense you'll see there is much wrong with half the diagnoses and treatments you are given by at least half of the Thai doctors. But go to many doctors and you can eventually get things worked out. Unfortunately many Thais and I would bet expats don't and simply take the doctors dianoses that there is nothing wrong with them when there is or that they need to have their foot amputated or eye removed when there is nothing wrong with either of those as I have. It doesn't matter if you are not a cheap charlie, what you get is not improved doctors and treatment but doctors with better English skills and modern facilities and slick brochures. Of course there is nothing wrong with those and it helps but if the doctor is some kind entitled psycopath with a medical degree then what does it matter that you understand whatever line he is giving you to suit him/herself  and his/her needs alone. The assumption seems to run with many and in the past it did with me that there were significantly better doctors for ten times the cost at the premium level health facilities. Its just better marketing mostly and the same culture of disregard for human life, same sense that one only need do the bare minimum or even less so as to be sabai sabai that Suthida would have seen in Roi Et. The culture does not go away just because you step through doors at the modern facilities of wherever, take your pick in Bangkok, and dig deep into your wallet for much more expensive treatment. In a way it is more dangerous to go to the upmarket places charging top dollar as you will be more prone to not question the results because of the seemingly professional seemingly caring environment which given the predatory streak that some doctors represent  it clearly is not. I am gratfeul to the many medical professionals whom you can eventually get help from but that doesn't mean anyone is an ingrate a whiner etc because they speak out against whole leagues of frankly dangerous and exploitative opportunists. Go Suthida, the doctors in this country need to be reigned in. I am so fed up with going for treatment and having doctors opening me up while laughing and yucking it up hardly even paying attention to what they are doing, it must be so unsanook to take your job seriously so fed up with "we will get back to you with the results" and you never hear from them again. "Oh kor tort, that doctor he transferred to another hospital. Sorry we no have the result about your condition." 

 

 

Please use paragraphs and I'll try and read your post.

[whaleboneman]

11 hours ago, uptoyoumyfriend said:

something doesnt pan out here.15 years ago very few thais got  hiv meds.they only got them when the cd4 count went below 350.that that takes quite a while.at the same time the viral load was checked against the cd4 count.today there is a change in policy and they want everybody  positive on meds to make sure they don't pass it on .

So an infected person can't pass it on if they are on meds? That was not my understanding.

[williamgeorgeallen]

11 hours ago, louse1953 said:

She can do both you know.I suppose you'd just let things be eh?

yep. live in thailand for a while and you have to adopt the 'let it slide' mentality or you will not enjoy your life or you will end up a basket case.

like another poster said medical tests have a margin for error. thats life the world over, not just thailand. accept the situation and move on.

Edited June 3, 2017 by williamgeorgeallen

[oslooskar]

My advice is to always be on guard when you’re dealing with the medical community no matter where on Terra Firma you might be. And always remember that the average doctor doesn’t know ten percent of what you think he knows.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

15 hours ago, Mickmouse1 said:

It is  to the first time anyway.My friend who is a Celibate was WRONGLY  diagnosed with HIV P 3 YEARS AGO.She accused me of mounting her in her sleep as I am the only man who got close to her.Even though I am 100% healthy.what a <deleted> nightmare that was.?

Good grief! with a friend like that, you dont need enemies.Was the accusation a formal complaint, or just personal between you and her.?

Was you accused by the authorities of anything? Was she celibate due to the diagnosis of HIV?

You say it was a nightmare, i can imagine it was. Are you still friends?

To be accused of something that you know you are not guilty, must be a helpless feeling, i can only sympathise with you.But i can imagine how a persons good character can be put at risk, after an accusation of that sort.

I hope you are past it all now.

[wprime]

11 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Unfortunately  there is a culture bias in Thailand that says you don't question a doctor.

You see that all the time especially upcountry.

Thais ae often told to take pills or injections, and they do not understand the explanation.

But just because they are taught not to question authority figures, they accept what they think they are told, even when they really don't understand the instructions fully.

 

 

 

Yeah, just try calling them out the next time they prescribe anti-biotics for the flu.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

11 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Unfortunately  there is a culture bias in Thailand that says you don't question a doctor.

You see that all the time especially upcountry.

Thais ae often told to take pills or injections, and they do not understand the explanation.

But just because they are taught not to question authority figures, they accept what they think they are told, even when they really don't understand the instructions fully.

 

 

 

When we lived in Patts, there was a case of a Thai lady, 45 years of age(we knew her quite well) who was about to embark on a relationship with a felang that was a customer of ours. He was a man of 62 and he was a decent sort.They had been seeing each other for a couple of months and had decided to live together in his house.We were all very surprised, when one night, in our bar, he made the statement that they had never had sex.Apparently, she and he had come to an arrangement that they would wait until they co-habited.

The lady being a sensible type, went to her doctor(a professional man, a man of medicine, a scholar, with degree's in his chosen feild,a man to respect, and a man of property, having his own clinic and medical staff)

She wanted to speak to him about contraception, and which would be the favourable,and reliable method due to her having a fear of an unexpected pregnancy at her age, which would be disastrous.This medical genius, simply pooh poohed her question, by telling her,not to worry, and  that felang men over 60 were incapable of creating children, as it was well known in the medical profession that the Western male becomes infertile at 60 years of age.

Can you believe this crap? This is supposed to be a man of life saving abilities, a man who you are meant to trust and believe in.Your opinion of Thai culture is 100% correct.To question authority figures, is just not done, for fear of the figure losing face because he really doesn't know the answer

 

[steven100]

3 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Western male becomes infertile at 60 years of age.

Can you believe this crap? This is supposed to be a man of life saving abilities, a man who you are meant to trust and believe in

Stupid idiot .....  He needs a good talking to by another doctor ... 

also,  in western society ... you could say that one is also against questioning people of authority ...  ??