Bad maintenance

[Somboonbeb]

Hi folks. I have a condo in Phuket since 4 years. Maintenance is not happening, elevators not working since years, swimming pool with green water etc.

Out of 100+ units only half a dozen were sold. The developer runs a hotel business with some of the units for chinese tourists.

Question is. Do we have any rights to get any sort of authority involved ? Or is a lost cause ?

[trogers]

It's a lost cause with just a few percent sold. You have bought into a depreciating asset and a developer facing bankruptcy.

 

Such is a risk in buying off plan, rather than from the secondary market that has a thriving community.

[Peterw42]

How can they be running a hotel with no elevators and a green swimming pool ?

[oxo1947]

19 minutes ago, Somboonbeb said:

Out of 100+ units only half a dozen were sold. The developer runs a hotel business with some of the units for chinese tourists

You do have some rights but its a slow---expensive (if there is only 4 of you) exercise. I would guess the developer isn't paying any maintenance fees on the units he is still holding---it may well be in his contract that he doesn't have to until sold.  I did have  that experience ---Just hang in & hope they will sell in the future ...because the alternative isn't very palatable either.

[Somboonbeb]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

How can they be running a hotel with no elevators and a green swimming pool ?

They give them a bed, a shower and a breakfast. And it looks like that is all they want

[KittenKong]

59 minutes ago, Somboonbeb said:

Out of 100+ units only half a dozen were sold. The developer runs a hotel business with some of the units for chinese tourists.

Question is. Do we have any rights to get any sort of authority involved ? Or is a lost cause ?

 

The law says that once a building is declared a condominium you have to hold a GM fairly promptly and elect a committee. Was this done? You then have to have meetings annually and elect a new committee from time to time. If none of that is happening then you should approach the Land Office who are supposed to police this. Of course they may be in the pockets of the developer.

Bear in mind that no one co-owner can cast more votes that the total of all other co-owners. So even if "real" co-owners only represent a small proportion of all the units then you still outvote the developer on paper.

 

As far as I know the maintenance fees are due for all units even those which are unsold. Unfortunately getting this to happen may be very difficult if the numbers are as you describe. Again the Land Office should oversee this so they should be your first port of call. Take an honest Thai-speaking person.

[KittenKong]

45 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

How can they be running a hotel with no elevators and a green swimming pool ?

 

The Chinese will be happy as long as it's cheap and there is space to spit on the floor.

[Somboonbeb]

13 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

The law says that once a building is declared a condominium you have to hold a GM fairly promptly and elect a committee. Was this done? You then have to have meetings annually and elect a new committee from time to time. If none of that is happening then you should approach the Land Office who are supposed to police this. Of course they may be in the pockets of the developer.

Bear in mind that no one co-owner can cast more votes that the total of all other co-owners. So even if "real" co-owners only represent a small proportion of all the units then you still outvote the developer on paper.

 

As far as I know the maintenance fees are due for all units even those which are unsold. Unfortunately getting this to happen may be very difficult if the numbers are as you describe. Again the Land Office should oversee this so they should be your first port of call. Take an honest Thai-speaking person.

Thanks for the suggestion. Will see how I can approach the land office

[lkn]

17 hours ago, KittenKong said:

The law says that once a building is declared a condominium you have to hold a GM fairly promptly and elect a committee. Was this done? You then have to have meetings annually and elect a new committee from time to time […]

In addition to a majority owner having their vote reduced on the AGM, at least in Chiang Mai, the Land Office only allow one board member per “owner”, so the developer will be in the minority at board meetings.

 

Furthermore, the JPM must post monthly income and expenditure reports and can be fined if this is not done.

 

You should request these income and expenditure reports to see if the developer pays management fee, and if so, where the money goes and you should ask for meeting minutes from the past AGMs.

 

You should also join the board with the other co-owners. To expedite this, you should call for an extraordinary general meeting. This can be called if 20% of the joint owners request it, and here I believe the majority rule also applies, so presumably only about 3 of you need to sign this request.

 

[Somboonbeb]

6 hours ago, lkn said:

In addition to a majority owner having their vote reduced on the AGM, at least in Chiang Mai, the Land Office only allow one board member per “owner”, so the developer will be in the minority at board meetings.

 

Furthermore, the JPM must post monthly income and expenditure reports and can be fined if this is not done.

 

You should request these income and expenditure reports to see if the developer pays management fee, and if so, where the money goes and you should ask for meeting minutes from the past AGMs.

 

You should also join the board with the other co-owners. To expedite this, you should call for an extraordinary general meeting. This can be called if 20% of the joint owners request it, and here I believe the majority rule also applies, so presumably only about 3 of you need to sign this request.

 

Appreciate the useful infos thank you

[williamgeorgeallen]

On 5/6/2560 at 4:05 PM, Somboonbeb said:

Thanks for the suggestion. Will see how I can approach the land office

good luck but the developer who owns the majority of the units has the voting majority and can do what ever they want. dont waste your money on lawyers or going to the land office. i lost out buying off plan, biggest mistake of my life. i put a 30% deposit down and walked away from it. some times you gotta walk away, some times you should run. either way dont waste any more  money.

[RBOP]

Only 6 units sold out of 100+ over 4 years? Sounds criminal. Get together with the other 5 owners and make a complaint at your land office for starts. Good luck to you. 

[catman20]

On 6/5/2017 at 10:11 AM, Somboonbeb said:

They give them a bed, a shower and a breakfast. And it looks like that is all they want

cos there all cheap charlies thats why

[stgrhe]

First, you have some rights as there is a law called 'Comdominium Amendment Act' from 1999 that is still applicable. Running and maintaining of the building should be overseen by a Juristic person that should be separate from the developer. There should also be a board compricing of maximum nine members. The board-members should be appointed by members in a general meeting, a meeting that should be held once annually.

 

The responsibilities and rights of the board and the juristic person are regulated in the law.

 

The developer normally do not pay the sinking fond for unsold units but is responsible to pay the yearly maintenence fees for the same. This oblligation of the developer cannot be negotiated as it is law.

 

Find out who the board members are and read the attached law text.

Condominium Amendment Act 1999.doc

[little mary sunshine]

In 4 years only 6 out  of 100 sold!!  looks like

you're SOL!!.... I would make sure my insurance 

is paid and "torch" the place!!

[bazza73]

Discount your selling price to 50% of what the developer is asking, and get out. It's a lost cause.

[trogers]

2 hours ago, bazza73 said:

Discount your selling price to 50% of what the developer is asking, and get out. It's a lost cause.

Fifty won't do. Junk bonds usually get percentages in the 'teens of their original values.

[mogandave]

How can they be running a hotel with no elevators and a green swimming pool ?

The pool is blue and the elevators work in the photos...

[bazza73]

22 minutes ago, trogers said:

Fifty won't do. Junk bonds usually get percentages in the 'teens of their original values.

You may be right.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

good luck but the developer who owns the majority of the units has the voting majority and can do what ever they want.

 

No, the developer does not have a voting majority as I explained in post number 6.

 

[Suradit69]

On 6/5/2017 at 10:51 AM, KittenKong said:

 

The Chinese will be happy as long as it's cheap and there is space to spit on the floor.

Sort of like all the farang who stay on Soi Buakow in Pattaya.

[ThaiWai]

You have the right to not purchase real estate in Thailand.

If you give up that right, your finances will be drained and anything you do or say will be shoved up your ass.  

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

3 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

You have the right to not purchase real estate in Thailand.

If you give up that right, your finances will be drained and anything you do or say will be shoved up your ass.  

 

ha, that is good. wish some one told me that before i went off buying property in pattaya. i think buying property in thailand is a bigger risk than getting involved with a thai woman. do them both and the risk goes up exponentially.

[williamgeorgeallen]

5 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

No, the developer does not have a voting majority as I explained in post number 6.

 

you can quote the law all day long but what happens in real life is often quite different.  you can see in many old condo projects many people simply dont pay their fees. as for the land office have you ever tried to deal with them? best chance is sending a lawyer there but then you are probably throwing money away. 

[jippytum]

If the building operation has changed from a condominium to a condotel  or hotel then a special operation license  is required applicable to the change of use .

If the unit you purchased as a condo and the building operation was later changed to a hotel the developer under the law was required to reimburse you for the price of the unit should you have decided to vacate or cancel at the time of the change.

Please check if the operators  license is for a hotel or remains as a condo .If it has not been changed the developer is breaking  the law and if it has been changed to a hotel you have a good case for restitution  from the date of change regardless of the purchase date of your condo.

It is possible some notice in the public area or sent to your mailbox in Thai giving  an option was sent to you .

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

you can quote the law all day long but what happens in real life is often quite different.  you can see in many old condo projects many people simply dont pay their fees. as for the land office have you ever tried to deal with them? best chance is sending a lawyer there but then you are probably throwing money away. 

 

Yes, I have dealt with the Land Office in my capacity as a committee member. Not the world's most helpful or dynamic people, in fact they seem to have the common Thai trait of always wanting to do as little as possible about anything.

 

If real co-owners dont pay their fees it is down to lazy management and a weak committee, nothing more. It certainly has nothing to do with the Land Office. But if the developer is using trickery to avoid paying his fees then the Land Office is the place to complain to with the caveats I mentioned previously.

 

In this particular instance though, given the tiny number of real co-owners, I would indeed think twice before spending any money on lawyers or anything else. Living in that building is clearly going to be a constant uphill struggle.

[mogandave]

I would thing something could be done about the elevators particularly if the building is new. Greasing the right inspector may put a lot of heat on the developer...


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[212Roger]

Move.

[mike324]

On 6/10/2017 at 9:21 PM, KittenKong said:

 

No, the developer does not have a voting majority as I explained in post number 6.

 

Since the condo owners still owns majority, they are the ones running the show.  You can only set up a committee when X number of units are sold if I remember correctly.

 

 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, mike324 said:

Since the condo owners still owns majority, they are the ones running the show.  You can only set up a committee when X number of units are sold if I remember correctly.

 

No, because the developer does not have a voting majority as I explained. By law no one co-owner may outvote all the others put together.

 

As far as I know the building is a condominium from the moment it is registered as such and the chanotes are issued. Then an initial GM should be called within a set time frame and a committee voted in, and rules and fees decided upon, and accounts presented etc. And subsequently the GM is repeated yearly and accounts presented monthly, and a minimum number of committee meetings also need to be held each year. It seems like in this instance the developer has been avoiding doing this, probably for the obvious reasons.