Shock UK exit poll suggests Britain's May fails to win majority

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

It won't be news JHJ. But you just have to look at the picture of events. Tories offering negative, vote-losing proposals against Labour offering free beer for everybody (cue the forum's pedants).

 

I think you've over indulged on the free beer?

 

Are you not the same guy who constantly lambasted Remainers with the "will of the people" rhetoric and accused them of being anti-democratic? Sad.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I think she pretty much did it on her own, together with her two lackeys ... one of whom slipped in the 'dementia tax' commitment.

 

For May this should have been the easiest election ... don't put anything other than neutral anodyne policies into the manifesto, do a few TV debates, talk about needing a strong hand to get a great deal ... and you are home and dry, 

 

And she thinks she can win in Europe? Brussels must be sniggering (just like they sniggered at Trump at NATO)

 

Tee hee! what a twit!!! 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

 

Thanks for posting that. Lovin it.

[Orac]

 
By 'minor', I mean technically not in the EU but pretty much tied to it ... single market, customs union, contributions, and free movement ... except no power to influence much going forward ... for hardcore leavers, a huge disappointment, and for hardcore remainers, a complete waste of time and resources. 
 

Not sure about that - sounds pretty much like what we have now just without UKIP since we lose our European Parliament seats.

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I would have thought it was May's Cabinet that came up with/approved the manifesto?

 

10 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I think she pretty much did it on her own, together with her two lackeys ... one of whom slipped in the 'dementia tax' commitment.

 

For May this should have been the easiest election ... don't put anything other than neutral anodyne policies into the manifesto, do a few TV debates, talk about needing a strong hand to get a great deal ... and you are home and dry, 

 

Seems unlikely to me that May and a couple of lackeys came up with the manifesto - and even more unlikely that any party's election manifesto doesn't need to be approved by the Cabinet?

 

Agree with the second para. of your post though.

[AlexRich]

6 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Not sure about that - sounds pretty much like what we have now just without UKIP since we lose our European Parliament seats.
 

 

 

A snippet from the Daily Mail website.

 

"But the future of Brexit was in doubt last night. One Whitehall source said the Government's plans were 'as good as dead', with almost no chance of a weakened PM forcing them through the Commons and Lords after failing to get a mandate. Pro-Remain forces in the Tory Party indicated they would now push to stay in the single market.

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson, who emerged from the election as a powerful figure, urged Mrs May to prioritise the economy over the need to end free movement, saying: 'We must, in my view, seek to deliver an open Brexit, not a closed one, which puts our country's economic growth first.'

 

Prioritise the economy over free movement?

 

[AlexRich]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

 

Seems unlikely to me that May and a couple of lackeys came up with the manifesto - and even more unlikely that any party's election manifesto doesn't need to be approved by the Cabinet?

 

Agree with the second para. of your post though.

 

It's almost unbelievable ... but they did all the damage - dementia tax and end of triple lock. There was nothing else in the manifesto that drew any negative attention.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I got free beer as a student under a Labour government and I can tell you I have developed quite a taste for it, so what is your point?

While that may be tongue in cheek, the reality is that many of my generation regarded uni students as spoiled, time wasting piss heads ( that was when it was free ) indulging in such delights as the "chunder games".

It was also a time when most people could get a good job without having to have a degree. I could never have been able to get a nursing job if starting now as it's been ( IMO insanely ) converted to a degree requiring occupation.

At least back then, not many went to uni, but now that every kid wants to do "media studies" and such inanities, the cost would be monumental and unaffordable.

 

NB I fully support degree requirements for such as eg medicine, science and engineering.

[JHolmesJr]

29 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

It won't be news JHJ. But you just have to look at the picture of events. Tories offering negative, vote-losing proposals against Labour offering free beer for everybody (cue the forum's pedants).

 

so how does this work then?

 

collusion? russians?(joke…must spell it put for some morons, sadly).

 

hehe

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, AlexRich said:

 

A snippet from the Daily Mail website.

 

"But the future of Brexit was in doubt last night. One Whitehall source said the Government's plans were 'as good as dead', with almost no chance of a weakened PM forcing them through the Commons and Lords after failing to get a mandate. Pro-Remain forces in the Tory Party indicated they would now push to stay in the single market.

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson, who emerged from the election as a powerful figure, urged Mrs May to prioritise the economy over the need to end free movement, saying: 'We must, in my view, seek to deliver an open Brexit, not a closed one, which puts our country's economic growth first.'

 

Prioritise the economy over free movement?

 

Nothing suprising there.  The vast majority of MPs were never in favour of brexit in the first place, so it comes as no shock to learn that following the GE they will do everything possible to ignore voters' concerns about the EU - and free movement is a major concern.

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Nothing suprising there.  The vast majority of MPs were never in favour of brexit in the first place, so it comes as no shock to learn that following the GE they will do everything possible to ignore voters' concerns about the EU - and free movement is a major concern.

 

Corbyn gave no reassurances on incomer numbers, in fact he explicitly said that he wanted to remain in the single market and customs union ... something that can only be done with free movement. 

 

If this matter was the be all and end all for most people in the UK then May would have won with a landslide. But the same people that want it don't also want to pay for the consequences of it ... a country that will need to tap into their accumulated property wealth to pay for their social care. Many people voted Brexit because they did not believe that it would impact them economically ... that's changed. 

 

 

[AGareth2]

it is one thing to sit down and have tea with terrorists

it is another to go to bed with them

Edited June 10, 2017 by AGareth2

[Prbkk]

30 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

A snippet from the Daily Mail website.

 

"But the future of Brexit was in doubt last night. One Whitehall source said the Government's plans were 'as good as dead', with almost no chance of a weakened PM forcing them through the Commons and Lords after failing to get a mandate. Pro-Remain forces in the Tory Party indicated they would now push to stay in the single market.

Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson, who emerged from the election as a powerful figure, urged Mrs May to prioritise the economy over the need to end free movement, saying: 'We must, in my view, seek to deliver an open Brexit, not a closed one, which puts our country's economic growth first.'

 

Prioritise the economy over free movement?

 

IE, remain in all significant ways. I don't believe the public will accept remain by stealth ( I support remain, btw).

interesting times ahead, with Brussels licking their chops.

 

[dick dasterdly]

43 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I think she pretty much did it on her own, together with her two lackeys ... one of whom slipped in the 'dementia tax' commitment.

 

For May this should have been the easiest election ... don't put anything other than neutral anodyne policies into the manifesto, do a few TV debates, talk about needing a strong hand to get a great deal ... and you are home and dry, 

 

 

25 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Seems unlikely to me that May and a couple of lackeys came up with the manifesto - and even more unlikely that any party's election manifesto doesn't need to be approved by the Cabinet?

 

Agree with the second para. of your post though.

 

22 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

It's almost unbelievable ... but they did all the damage - dementia tax and end of triple lock. There was nothing else in the manifesto that drew any negative attention.

IMO this is an important point - who came up with the policies that could only cause damage to the party's campaign, and who approved these obviously vote losing policies?

 

Trying to blame it all on 'May and a couple of lackeys' seems extremely unlikely....

 

As always, its best to look at who benefited - and at the end of the day the MPs who support remain benefited from those clearly vote losing policies.

[AGareth2]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

IMO this is an important point - who came up with the policies that could only cause damage to the party's campaign, and who approved these obviously vote losing policies?

a small group

that is how she works

[emilymat]

22 hours ago, dunroaming said:

So as predicted by many on TV.  I voted for the Lib Dems simply to unseat the local Tory candidate and many others here did the same. Mission accomplished!

 

But what does this hung parliament mean. It is likely that the Conservatives will stay in power with a little help from a minor party, probably the Northern Irish party.  Maybe as a “confidence and supply” agreement or maybe as a coalition. The result has seriously damaged May but she will try to hang on the  PM role. Her handling of Brexit, her position on the NHS, the police numbers and the stupid dementia tax has led to this and the fact she shied away from debates and interviews have painted her as a coward.

 

Brexit is now much harder but will have to be much softer to get through the house.   May really should fall on her sword over this but who can pick up the baton?  Johnson will screw everything up and Amber Rudd only just hung on to her seat.

 

To answer the first part of your post.  With the fixed term parliament, even a minority government can only be thrown out by a 'no confidence' vote or a voluntary dissolution supported by 75% (?) of  parliament - something I doubt the PM would risk calling, given she has just done that and it has backfired. So, it's the no confidence issue only that will end this government and we would be back into the old days of MP's being trolleyed in on stretchers etc.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

24 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Nothing suprising there.  The vast majority of MPs were never in favour of brexit in the first place, so it comes as no shock to learn that following the GE they will do everything possible to ignore voters' concerns about the EU - and free movement is a major concern.

 

14 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Corbyn gave no reassurances on incomer numbers, in fact he explicitly said that he wanted to remain in the single market and customs union ... something that can only be done with free movement. 

 

If this matter was the be all and end all for most people in the UK then May would have won with a landslide. But the same people that want it don't also want to pay for the consequences of it ... a country that will need to tap into their accumulated property wealth to pay for their social care. Many people voted Brexit because they did not believe that it would impact them economically ... that's changed. 

 

 

"Corbyn gave no reassurances on incomer numbers, in fact he explicitly said that he wanted to remain in the single market and customs union ... something that can only be done with free movement."

 

I rest my case - MPs will ignore voters' concerns about 'open immigration' despite that being a major concern.  They (and to be fair, a large percentage of the population agree) that any deal is better than no deal - never mind how bad the deal .

 

But we're going round in circles 

[Get Real]

To me it seems like just another failiure of many in a long row.

[AlexRich]

31 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

IMO this is an important point - who came up with the policies that could only cause damage to the party's campaign, and who approved these obviously vote losing policies?

 

Trying to blame it all on 'May and a couple of lackeys' seems extremely unlikely....

 

As always, its best to look at who benefited - and at the end of the day the MPs who support remain benefited from those clearly vote losing policies.

 

You are so wrong. This was a May and lackey decision ... I recall on the news media that some ministers weren't even aware of it ... dementia tax was slipped in at the last minute. 

[AlexRich]

24 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

"Corbyn gave no reassurances on incomer numbers, in fact he explicitly said that he wanted to remain in the single market and customs union ... something that can only be done with free movement."

 

I rest my case - MPs will ignore voters' concerns about 'open immigration' despite that being a major concern.  They (and to be fair, a large percentage of the population agree) that any deal is better than no deal - never mind how bad the deal .

 

But we're going round in circles 

I think the economic argument is winning the day ... and free movement will have to be compromised on.

[transam]

The Dementia thing buried May regarding votes, it showed the aging populous their government not caring attitude.... Absolutely daft stuff when a choose vote is near....

 

CRAZY...............

 

And Corby promising everything he cannot provide.....I know a carpet salesman like that....

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, transam said:

The Dementia thing buried May regarding votes, it showed the aging populous their government not caring attitude.... Absolutely daft stuff when a choose vote is near....

 

CRAZY...............

 

And Corby promising everything he cannot provide.....I know a carpet salesman like that....

he knew he wouldn't win

I think he looked shocked by the result

and thought he had won

[transam]

8 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

he knew he wouldn't win

I think he looked shocked by the result

and thought he had won

That look was for the neigh sayers in his party, sort of a <deleted!> you thingy....

I recall Labour voted for a Foot to lead them....Gawd.....

[AGareth2]

KENSINGTON!

Enough is enough!

she has to resign

[transam]

5 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

KENSINGTON!

Enough is enough!

she has to resign

Who lives there....?

[AlexRich]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

Who lives there....?

Rich Tory party supporters ... if its goes wrong there then you have a problem.

 

A wealthy London enclave ... Prince William lives in Kensington Palace.

Edited June 10, 2017 by AlexRich

[transam]

Just now, AlexRich said:

Rich Tory party supporters ... if its goes wrong there then you have a problem.

Look a little deeper....

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

KENSINGTON!

Enough is enough!

she has to resign

Which is why I would be interested to learn the breakdown between referendum leave/remain votes - and whether they correspond to GE votes.

 

KENSINGTON  voting for Labour is such an anomaly!  Of course its possible that those in Kensington have suddenly turned into Labour voters....

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Wait for The Queen's speech

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While that may be tongue in cheek, the reality is that many of my generation regarded uni students as spoiled, time wasting piss heads ( that was when it was free ) indulging in such delights as the "chunder games".

It was also a time when most people could get a good job without having to have a degree. I could never have been able to get a nursing job if starting now as it's been ( IMO insanely ) converted to a degree requiring occupation.

At least back then, not many went to uni, but now that every kid wants to do "media studies" and such inanities, the cost would be monumental and unaffordable.

 

NB I fully support degree requirements for such as eg medicine, science and engineering.

 

Were you lot like this?

 

I do agree that many degrees and many degree courses are worthless. When I was part of the 4% degrees were tough. You fancy second order differential equations at 09.00 on a Saturday morning? But we all lived life to the max; work hard and play hard. The boat club pub crawls were legendary!