Latimer Road fire: Huge fire engulfs west London flats

[sandrabbit]

16 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

 

Further to that;

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20170614035707/http://wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/

 

http://wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/

 

Spot the difference. They took their page down today. Unluckily for them, the page has been archived. 

sorry I only looked at the main page not the archives but i didn't see the difference

[Khon Kaen Dave]

2 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

it wasn't meant as a criticism it was meant as a follow on to what I asked before.

Jim, at times like this, when it serious, not just an exercise, we all appreciate the job you and your colleagues do. We know that every day on the job, could have an unexpected result.I have the greatest of respect for you and your brothers and sisters that are the LFB.My grandson has only me if any thing happened to my daughter and son in law.Please excuse people that make mistakes in their understanding. dont forget, we respect and admire what you do, all of you.

[sandrabbit]

2 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Jim, at times like this, when it serious, not just an exercise, we all appreciate the job you and your colleagues do. We know that every day on the job, could have an unexpected result.I have the greatest of respect for you and your brothers and sisters that are the LFB.My grandson has only me if any thing happened to my daughter and son in law.Please excuse people that make mistakes in their understanding. dont forget, we respect and admire what you do, all of you.

and i presumed there was a door entry system at ground level and the doorbells were there 

[KhaoNiaw]

2 hours ago, roo860 said:

Local people opening their homes so folk who've lost everything can shower, have a meal, giving them clothes. Boots, M and S, Tesco giving food etc, even Jamie Oliver opened his restaurant all day to give food. In times like this Britain steps up to the mark.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Not only local people but churches and mosques as well. This is Britain.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

5 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

and i presumed there was a door entry system at ground level and the doorbells were there 

What ????

[JamJar]

7 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

sorry I only looked at the main page not the archives but i didn't see the difference

 

Apologies, I posted the archive link in both links.

 

This is the link now: http://wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/

 

The archive link is as it was before they took it down today. Seems they want to distance themselves from their system.

[JamJar]

>>.and this is the archived link from earlier today: https://web.archive.org/web/20170614035707/http:/wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/

 

Seems they don't want to be linked to the system any more.

[sandrabbit]

2 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

Apologies, I posted the archive link in both links.

 

This is the link now: http://wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/

 

The archive link is as it was before they took it down today. Seems they want to distance themselves from their system.

Ah ich verstehe, the old no publicity routine. I was looking for data on the cladding being removed.

[Airbagwill]

The residents have been complaining for years and the new cladding is highly flammable...there were meant to be fire breaks.

This is an outrage and it also applies to several other buildings in London the contractors Eye on have a lot to explain as do Kensington council.

The next thing is there will be a mass exodus from other similarly clad buildings ....

I'm sorry but as soon as I heard this I knew what was happening.

The only good thing is the amount of aid that is readily available to these poor people in such a rich borough

[Khon Kaen Dave]

5 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

Ah ich verstehe, the old no publicity routine. I was looking for data on the cladding being removed.

yes i cant get it.

[JamJar]

5 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

Ah ich verstehe, the old no publicity routine. I was looking for data on the cladding being removed.

 

http://www.rydon.co.uk/what-we-do/refurbishment/case-studies/refurbishment-case-studies/grenfell-tower

 

At least they haven't removed their page yet.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

2 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

The residents have been complaining for years and the new cladding is highly flammable...there were meant to be fire breaks.

This is an outrage and it also applies to several other buildings in London the contractors Eye on have a lot to explain as do Kensington council.

The next thing is there will be a mass exodus from other similarly clad buildings ....

I'm sorry but as soon as I heard this I knew what was happening.

The only good thing is the amount of aid that is readily available to these poor people in such a rich borough

But isnt there a flammable check on such cladding?

[Airbagwill]

If you have any doubt about prior warnings, Google Grenfell action group.

[sandrabbit]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

The residents have been complaining for years and the new cladding is highly flammable...there were meant to be fire breaks.

This is an outrage and it also applies to several other buildings in London the contractors Eye on have a lot to explain as do Kensington council.

The next thing is there will be a mass exodus from other similarly clad buildings ....

I'm sorry but as soon as I heard this I knew what was happening.

The only good thing is the amount of aid that is readily available to these poor people in such a rich borough

the thing is what I could see from the close up pictures it looked like they did actually have Rockwool insulation underneath the external cladding but it wouldn't do any good when everything else around it is burning.

[Airbagwill]

4 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

But isnt there a flammable check on such cladding?

There is meant to be but it may not have been fitted correctly...if at all....or it was ineffective against this heat. The heat is often transmitted through metal from one section to the next.

This was an early 1970s (1960s design) and you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear...at least on the cheap

Edited June 14, 2017 by Airbagwill

[sandrabbit]

6 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

http://www.rydon.co.uk/what-we-do/refurbishment/case-studies/refurbishment-case-studies/grenfell-tower

 

At least they haven't removed their page yet.

'Externally, rain screen cladding, curtain wall façade and replacement windows were fitted, improving thermal insulation and modernising the exterior of the building.'

 

ye thats the sort of stuff I was looking for so rain screen cladding doesn't need to be fireproof?.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

2 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

There is meant to be but it may not have been fitted correctly...if at all....or it was ineffective against this heat. The best is often transmitted through metal from one section to the next.

This was an early 1970s (1960s design) and you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear...at least on the cheap

I would agree, but having been in the building game for some years, i am aware that every thing has to have a BS standard. I E Bs 10 10 stop valves, Bs 12 12 ball valves etc.There must be a BS for cladding, surely. I am at a loss to understand why this cladding did not have a BS or was it below BS standards.?

[JamJar]

16 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

Ah ich verstehe, the old no publicity routine. I was looking for data on the cladding being removed.

 

 

Actually Rydon did take their page down, but put it back up again.

 

Harley Facades have taken their page down, but here it is for your perusal.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20170614034527/http://www.harleyfacades.co.uk/page/grenfell-tower

[JamJar]

More info on the cladding: http://www.bailey-uk.com/face-value/environmental/rainscreen-cladding-and-fire-risk/

[Airbagwill]

1 minute ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

I would agree, but having been in the building game for some years, i am aware that every thing has to have a BS standard. I E Bs 10 10 stop valves, Bs 12 12 ball valves etc.There must be a BS for cladding, surely. I am at a loss to understand why this cladding did not have a BS or was it below BS standards.?

I'm not sure....it may have passed if the fire breaks were fitted...but this will hopefully all come out before Tyson and Kensington can organise a cover up

[sandrabbit]

2 minutes ago, JamJar said:

More info on the cladding: http://www.bailey-uk.com/face-value/environmental/rainscreen-cladding-and-fire-risk/

right on the mark mate, cheers

 

'Rainscreen cladding is designed to protect a building from the weather. However, the fundamental elements of the ventilated cavity that enables the rainscreen system, also make it a fire risk.'

[Khon Kaen Dave]

3 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

 

Actually Rydon did take their page down, but put it back up again.

 

Harley Facades have taken their page down, but here it is for your perusal.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20170614034527/http://www.harleyfacades.co.uk/page/grenfell-tower

I have read the spec, but i fail to see what BS standard the cladding is to be installed. Surely this would be an important part of the specification.

[Airbagwill]

Lets not lose sight of the fact that the primary purpose of this cladding was to make this low class housing g look better to the rich people living all around it.....

"Bringing down the neighbourhood"??

[sandrabbit]

4 minutes ago, JamJar said:

More info on the cladding: http://www.bailey-uk.com/face-value/environmental/rainscreen-cladding-and-fire-risk/

'Part B has elements that contradict each other. The regulations are to ensure a cavity barrier around all penetrations: from ducting to door or window openings; at floor levels and at any compartment lines. For example, when designing flats, regulations require fire compartments are used internally and the protection must carry through to the cladding.'

 

Looking at what was left of the building in the close ups this hits me, they didn't make the fireproof barriers complete.

[sandrabbit]

20 minutes ago, JamJar said:

More info on the cladding: http://www.bailey-uk.com/face-value/environmental/rainscreen-cladding-and-fire-risk/

'All Building Control will do is ensure you conform to Building Regulations. Based on the conflict of ‘the cavity barrier must provide 30 minutes integrity and 15 minutes insulation’ but can be achieved by using a ‘1mm steel material to provide a cavity barrier’ interpretations can vary between building control areas.'

 

I found this interesting as well.

[JamJar]

3 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

I have read the spec, but i fail to see what BS standard the cladding is to be installed. Surely this would be an important part of the specification.

 

This isn't my field. I'm just putting the info together in one place for those with the relevant experience to peruse.

It's clear that some are trying to protect themselves by taking their pages down asap.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20170614035707/http:/wittukgroup.co.uk/grenfell-tower-london-w11-1tq-regeneration-project/

https://web.archive.org/web/20170614034527/http://www.harleyfacades.co.uk/page/grenfell-tower

https://web.archive.org/web/20170614055549/http://www.rydon.co.uk/what-we-do/refurbishment/case-studies/refurbishment-case-studies/grenfell-tower

http://www.bailey-uk.com/face-value/environmental/rainscreen-cladding-and-fire-risk/

 

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2015/09/14/cladding-firm-harley-curtain-wall-pre-packed/

 

 

https://twitter.com/hashtag/GrenfellTower?src=hash

 

[gk10002000]

Some articles have mentioned that because of Ramadan more people were awake and saved, or something like that.  Not really sure what they meant.  But it brings up the question were the majority of the tenants in the building muslims?  Was the place possibly targeted because of that? Also reading articles, people are saying there were no alarms.  It sure seems like the building had no sprinkler system or a badly working one, but no alarms?  In the USA it is very common, and it is the law to have smoke detectors in hotels, apartment complexes, etc.  Are such things mandated in the UK?

[gk10002000]

10 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

reading that the fire alarms didn't go off

?

Does the UK require individual smoke detectors in rooms and apartments?  The USA pretty much does.  And they are supposed to be checked and maintained, be on primary building power so dead batteries won't be an issue

[ilostmypassword]

This article has lots of information about the cladding including how even if the cladding is not flammable, it can still act as a wind tunnel to convey the flames upward quickly.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cladding-fire-cause-improve-kensington-block-flats-appearance-blaze-24-storey-west-a7789951.html

 

[JamJar]

1 minute ago, gk10002000 said:

Does the UK require individual smoke detectors in rooms and apartments?  The USA pretty much does.  And they are supposed to be checked and maintained, be on primary building power so dead batteries won't be an issue

 

Actually someone in the building stated that there was an alarm, but it was very quiet. He only found out because he went to his windows for a smoke and heard people shouting "It's getting bigger...."