Refused a life in the UK test

[cliveshep]

13 minutes ago, helloagain said:

But its the same treatment we get here from thai

No it is not!

 

Here the financial restrictions are, thankfully, far less onerous for a pensioner wanting to stay here with his Thai wife. Ok - you need to apply for an extension every year but really, once you have done it once you continually use everything again and again, simply photo-copying it for Immigration. The only new thing you need apart from a small fee and an application form are a Bank Statement of that day, and a photocopy of your bank book showing the balance for two months of 400,000 baht with a small withdrawal that day indicating it is viable, and pictures of you and your wife about the home and outside showing the number and even those I have heard could be reused from previous years although that might be risky.

 

It really isn't arduous, once you have all the essential papers legalised in your home country, stamped by the Royal Thai Embassy there, translated and legalised here and keep them you've done the hard bit for all successive years. You certainly don't have a route as easy as that if you are a Thai spouse wanting to stay in the UK unless your UK spouse/sponsor can afford the £800 every two years and meets income and housing requirements and can jump through the numerous UK hoops.

 

I'd say having had to cope with both countries it's a whole lot easier here, and what's so hard with having loads of  90 day report forms labels printed out, buying some 10 baht stamps and a pack of envelopes, photo-copying your passport pages once only (they get returned to you) and making a report every three months by registered post? Again - if you have a laptop and printer, especially an all-in-one it is so simple to do. I scan and print my returned form, keep the original and my 90 day report form is already completed needing only dating and signing. I have all the addresses printed on plain paper, a pair of scissors and a glue stick to put them on envelopes, I stamp and fold the labelled return envelope, put the 90 day notification form,  previous reply, passport copies, SAE return envelope in an envelope and send it "tracked and signed for" with a receipt and tracking number 15 days beforehand. It comes back with my passport photocopies to use again (note: updated to show each annual extension of stay stamp) and the reply form.

 

The only thing is not to forget to send it which is why a scan of the notice return is on the fridge showing the date required. All it is here in the main is repetitive paperwork and that is probably because Thailand is not as big on computers as the UK so everything has to be paper.

 

Thailand is infinitely better, just wish it wasn't quite so hot and humid!

[MaprangHolmes]

On 6/17/2017 at 0:26 PM, malct said:

Thank you 7by7 regards "But the LitUK test for ILR was introduced in April 2007, so if she didn't take it for her ILR she must have waited at least 10 years before deciding to apply for British citizenship; so another 5 weeks isn't that long"

 

My wife came under the old rules and we married in august 2011 and she gained her indefinite leave to remain in September 2014, is it correct that my wife can apply for citizenship after 5 years? 

regards gaining citizenship, we are trying to get as much done as soon as we can so we can relax and not worry about anything and start to enjoy life since I am now retired

 

 

If your wife got ILR in 2014 then she must of done the life in the UK test which she can also use for citizenship which should could apply for now. She would of applied for citizenship 1 year after getting ILR. 

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, MaprangHolmes said:

If your wife got ILR in 2014 then she must of done the life in the UK test which she can also use for citizenship which should could apply for now.

 

If she got ILR in 2014; yes, she would have needed to have passed the LitUK test and could use that same pass for citizenship. But......

On ‎17‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 2:06 PM, malct said:

Sorry I made a mistake, she got her ilr in September 2013 and came under the rules where you do not need lituk. 

When she got her ILR, this part of KoLL could be satisfied either by passing the LitUK test or an ESOL with citizenship course.

On ‎17‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 3:44 PM, malct said:

That is correct, She did the ESOL courses and gained the ilr before the new changes.

 

This was changed w.e.f 28th October 2013, after Mrs. Malct obtained her ILR and since then only a LitUK test pass will satisfy this part of KoLL for both ILR and citizenship.

 

23 minutes ago, MaprangHolmes said:

She would of applied for citizenship 1 year after getting ILR. 

Not strictly true.

 

Standard applicants must have held ILR, or the equivalent, for at least 12 months before they can apply. But spouses and civil partners of British citizens do not; they merely have to hold it, how long for doesn't matter. So, provided they meet the other requirements, such as at least three years residence, they can apply as soon as they have ILR.

 

 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

On 6/16/2017 at 10:13 PM, AlexRich said:

It all sounds pretty appalling. It sounded a bit like the Deep South of the US, where they used every excuse in the book to deny black people their legal right to vote ... and I think they still do.

 

i would suggest that you and your wife persevere and don't be put off by people that are simply trying to wear you into submission.

Hi Alex.

I lived in the South, from 1980 to 85. I was in Marrietta Georgia. It was bad enough then (i have done a previous post on this) Is it still the same now ?

[landslide]

What the heck difference does it make that she did not know the exact name of the card?  She had it and knew what its purpose was.  This government functionary just wanted to feel important. 

[rasg]

15 hours ago, cliveshep said:

It really isn't arduous, once you have all the essential papers legalised in your home country, stamped by the Royal Thai Embassy there, translated and legalised here and keep them you've done the hard bit for all successive years. You certainly don't have a route as easy as that if you are a Thai spouse wanting to stay in the UK unless your UK spouse/sponsor can afford the £800 every two years and meets income and housing requirements and can jump through the numerous UK hoops.

 

Thailand is infinitely better, just wish it wasn't quite so hot and humid!

You are a little out of the loop when it comes to visas for the UK! Many hoops to jump through for five years including language tests, TB test, life in the UK test and a bill of between £10 - 15 thousand, or course. It goes up every year by around 20%,

 

Hotter in the UK than Thailand at the moment!

[OJAS]

6 hours ago, landslide said:

What the heck difference does it make that she did not know the exact name of the card?  She had it and knew what its purpose was.  This government functionary just wanted to feel important. 

Or had got out of bed the wrong side that morning.

 

A classic example of TIUK, I think.

[bobrussell]

The rules:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/terms-and-conditions-for-booking-and-taking-the-life-in-the-uk-test

 

"Candidates’ details displayed on screen must be as stated on the ID provided (and verbally
confirmed). This is unless a UK Marriage Certificate or valid UK Spouse Visa in a Passport (within
date) is provided to support the change"

 

Therefore unless someone is using a UK marriage certificate or a valid UK Spouse Visa in a Passport (within Date) they will be expected to confirm the details verbally. If they are unable to do this then the supervisor is required to refuse the person taking the test.

They are subcontractors and expected to follow the rules to the letter. They do not have flexibility in the matter.
 

[malct]

Looks like a lost case and £50, I sent a letter for a refund yesterday stating that she said everything apart from the word biometric which I have pointed out that it's not on the card. I wished that I had sent her with her passport, will give a update once I hear back, and I also asked in the letter on who to appeal to if they refuse my request

 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, malct said:

Looks like a lost case and £50, I sent a letter for a refund yesterday stating that she said everything apart from the word biometric which I have pointed out that it's not on the card. I wished that I had sent her with her passport, will give a update once I hear back, and I also asked in the letter on who to appeal to if they refuse my request

 

I posted the links for complaint and refund forms in post 11.

[malct]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

I posted the links for complaint and refund forms in post 11.

Yes, I used them thank you Tanoshi 

[ResandePohm]

On 6/17/2017 at 4:31 PM, bobrussell said:

My wife has been living over here on and off for well over a decade. She still has no clue what our postcode is nor our home telephone number. She gets me to write letters on her behalf!!

Lazy? Absolutely but she is who she says she is and has lived where she lives for that time. She has little clue about the postcode of our house in Bangkok nor actually the address where we plan to build a house later! Seems to be a perfectly standard thing for many Thais. Not a priority in life!

To know your post code is a bit much. I live in Thailand and I do not know or remember my post code. Whenever I have needed it I look it up

[bobrussell]

I have doubts that my wife knows our postcode in the UK or Thailand for that matter but the rules say that the applicant must provide details as used for identification.

Probably of limited value as I am sure a phoney applicant would make sure he or she was very well prepared!

However if the rules require it then they require it and it really is useful to know your postcode!

[malct]

Agree with what you say, anyone sitting a test for someone else would well know what would be asked and know the answer, so a bit of a pointless exercise. Not heard anything thing yet regarding a refund, commonsense would say a refund was in order, like I pointed out, there is nowhere on the card that it says the word biometric.

Edited June 27, 2017 by malct

[Trevor1809]

On 17/06/2017 at 11:54 AM, Tanoshi said:

I always considered the LinUK test a sham anyway.

 

Most British citizens would fail it, yet the UKVI state that to pass the test you will need to be competent in English.

 

Most that I know passed the test by using the online practice test sites, and actually memorising the questions and answers, rather than being able to read and understand them.

 

Yes what a pointless, stupid test. I did it the other day and got 50%. Very few of the questions actually related to life in the UK. Loads of very obscure historical questions. The Scot in my office didn't know how old Mary Quen of Scots was when she ascended the thrown (8 months) but as he was from Edinburgh did know that the longest dry ski slope in Europe is in Edinburgh. Just what every immigrant should know.

[theoldgit]

Off topic and flaming post removed.

[7by7]

36 minutes ago, Trevor1809 said:

Yes what a pointless, stupid test. I did it the other day and got 50%. Very few of the questions actually related to life in the UK. Loads of very obscure historical questions. The Scot in my office didn't know how old Mary Quen of Scots was when she ascended the thrown (8 months) but as he was from Edinburgh did know that the longest dry ski slope in Europe is in Edinburgh. Just what every immigrant should know.

 

The test is not perfect; true. But it's purpose is twofold.

 

1) To ensure immigrants have basic English reading skills; otherwise they could not cope with the learning materials, let alone the test. Although, obviously, special arrangements apply to blind persons to enable them to take it.

 

2) To teach immigrants something of this country's history, institutions, culture etc.

 

In certain topics in World News there are many posts from members complaining that immigrants don't know anything about these subjects.

 

Over here we have posts like the above!

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; my opinion is that it is neither pointless nor stupid that immigrants have to learn most of this stuff, especially the history; but it's a scandal that British schoolchildren don't!

 

 

[Trevor1809]

Why is it a scandal that British children don't have their minds crammed full of trivia and useless junk.

Please explain why knowing that Mary Queen of Scots was 8 months old when she ascended the throne or that the longest dry ski slope in Europe is in Edinburgh.

It is hardly a test of somebody's reading ability. It is a memory test pure and simple. Immigrants are subjected to an English test. If that is not fit for purpose then deal with it. Don't introduce another test that tests their ability to remember then paint it up as a reading test.

As for testing knowledge of history, culture, instutions, it strikes me it is more a test of trivia aimed at keeping the numbers down.

To my mind the two key questions about life in the UK at the moment are:

1. Why do we clad tower blocks in flammable materials?

2. When you have a majority in Parliament why do you throw that away on a whim?

They don't put questions like that in the test.

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, Trevor1809 said:

Why is it a scandal that British children don't have their minds crammed full of trivia and useless junk.

You may consider the history of our country and our culture to be 'useless junk;' I don't.

 

11 minutes ago, Trevor1809 said:

Please explain why knowing that Mary Queen of Scots was 8 months old when she ascended the throne or that the longest dry ski slope in Europe is in Edinburgh.

Both are part of our history and culture.

 

12 minutes ago, Trevor1809 said:

It is hardly a test of somebody's reading ability. It is a memory test pure and simple. Immigrants are subjected to an English test. If that is not fit for purpose then deal with it. Don't introduce another test that tests their ability to remember then paint it up as a reading test.

There are two parts to the language part of KoLL:

1. speaking and listening, with  increasing levels as one progresses from the initial visa, through FLR to ILR;
2. reading, which is covered by the LitUK test and is required for ILR.

I fail to see how someone who cannot read English is able to memorise all the potential questions, and then not only recognise which questions appear on their test but also which of the multiple choice answers is the correct one!

 

Perhaps you could enlighten me on how they manage it?

[Trevor1809]

Life in the UK. Holman Hunt, Mallaise and Rossetti were members of which important group of 19th century artists? a Abstract. b Expressionsists. c Pre-Raphaelites. d Impressionists.

 

I rest my case.

[Trevor1809]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

You may consider the history of our country and our culture to be 'useless junk;' I don't.

 

Both are part of our history and culture.

 

There are two parts to the language part of KoLL:

1. speaking and listening, with  increasing levels as one progresses from the initial visa, through FLR to ILR;
2. reading, which is covered by the LitUK test and is required for ILR.

I fail to see how someone who cannot read English is able to memorise all the potential questions, and then not only recognise which questions appear on their test but also which of the multiple choice answers is the correct one!

 

Perhaps you could enlighten me on how they manage it?

Did you know how old Mary Queen of Scots was when she ascended the throne or where the lonest dry ski slope in Europe is?

I would rather my kids learn importany facts not useless junk. If you want to test peoples reading ability subject them to a reading test, not a memory test.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Trevor1809 said:

Life in the UK. Holman Hunt, Mallaise and Rossetti were members of which important group of 19th century artists? a Abstract. b Expressionsists. c Pre-Raphaelites. d Impressionists.

 

I rest my case.

There's more to British culture than soaps and so called reality TV!

 

1 hour ago, Trevor1809 said:

Did you know how old Mary Queen of Scots was when she ascended the throne or where the lonest dry ski slope in Europe is?

I knew Mary was a child, though couldn't remember her exact age; but not that the longest dry ski slope in Europe is in Edinburgh.

 

However, had I studied for a test which included such questions I would.

1 hour ago, Trevor1809 said:

I would rather my kids learn importany facts not useless junk.

As I said before

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

You may consider the history of our country and our culture to be 'useless junk;' I don't.

 

1 hour ago, Trevor1809 said:

If you want to test peoples reading ability subject them to a reading test, not a memory test.

It is a test of both reading and knowledge.

 

To be able to study for the test, one has to be able to read English. In order to take the test, one has to be able to read English.

 

Memorising all the 1000+ questions in the question bank is a phenomenal feat, one only those with an eidetic memory could manage. Like any exam, the way to ensure a pass is to study the subject so no matter how a question is phrased, you can answer it.

 

BTW, just taken an official practice test, with no study or preparation. Got one wrong by saying the Prime Minister appointed Life Peers when the correct answer is the Monarch.

 

Although she appoints them on the recommendation of the Prime Minister, I should have got that one right!

 

I did know, though, that Geoffrey Chaucer wrote The Canterbury Tales and Jane Austin wrote Sense and Sensibility; but if they'd asked me the name of a character in EastEnders or Made in Chelsea I'd have been stumped.

 

I asked before

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

I fail to see how someone who cannot read English is able to memorise all the potential questions, and then not only recognise which questions appear on their test but also which of the multiple choice answers is the correct one!

 

Perhaps you could enlighten me on how they manage it?

Will you now answer?

[Trevor1809]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I asked before

 

Will you now answer?

What is the relevance of the question that you asked. The test is Life in the UK. If it is as you test a test of reading then make it a readsing test. But then there is no point in be able to read without comprehension.

In essance it is a memory test not a knowledge test. It is supposed to be a knowledge test, it says so in the title, Life in the UK.

If this was an entrance test for Master Mind or University Challenge then I could understand the difficulty of some of the questions. But to be asking about artists that I have never heard of along side is it legal or illegal to gamble in the UK or which day are pancakes eaten on is a joke.

I couldn't name one actor full stop in anything, well may be Brad Pitt. I have no interest in putting actor's names to characters.

So I would be hopeless on Pointless celebratiies which is aimed at the knowledge base of the average celebrity.

 

[7by7]

Although introduced a mere 12 years ago in the UK, such tests have been required in other countries for much longer.

 

For example, in a biography of Humphrey Bogart I read about how he helped Ingrid Bergman study for the American equivalent between takes on the set of Casablanca (if you are unaware, Casablanca is a classic film released in 1941).

 

In the USA this is known as the Civics Test.

 

The practice test I took contained questions on current US politics, such as who is the Vice President, and US history, such as when was the Mexican-American war, as well as day to day responsibilities, such as the deadline for submitting a tax return and even what is the name of the ocean on the west coast of the USA.

 

Though it had no questions on American culture.

 

 Click here for a practice test.

[bobrussell]

It should also be remembered that the test is a mix of questions. The rather obscure ones are quite few and far between and many/most are straight forward.

I know many that have successfully passed the test with a bit of study. Not particularly academic types!! One university professor who, I am sure, will have got all questions right!

The few that have not passed, have actually not attempted it!

[7by7]

3 hours ago, bobrussell said:

I know many that have successfully passed the test with a bit of study.

Indeed, just like any test or exam; if you don't study, you wont pass!

 

Of course, to be able to successfully study for the test and then successfully take it, the candidate requires a certain amount of English comprehension.

[malct]

Just to update you all and thank you for your replies.

 

RE: LIFE IN THE UK TEST

 

Thank you for contacting us and we are sorry to hear that you were unable to take your Test at the Carlisle centre on the 16^th June 2017.

 

We can confirm that is it the responsibility of the Candidate to ensure that the details they enter at the point of registering to take a Test, are correct.  It is also the Candidate’s responsibility to ensure that they arrive at the Test Centre with the ID with which they registered, together with acceptable postcode evidence.

 

A requirement to verbally confirm all personal details contained on the candidates ID, (including the form of ID ) forms part of the security checking process to allow candidates to take their Life in the UK Test.

The reason as to why you were rejected was due to not verbally confirming the form of ID that you were using.

 

Once candidates have been refused to take the test they would not be allowed to take the test until they book for a different day.

 

We are afraid that we are unable to offer a refund on this occasion.  Please note that this decision has been reached in accordance with Home Office guidance, it is final and we will be unable to correspond with you any further in relation to this matter.

 

We trust this clarifies the situation and wish you the very best wishes for the future.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Maz

 

 

I guess i cant take the matter any further

 

Malc

[7by7]

1 hour ago, malct said:

I guess i cant take the matter any further

That looks to be the case, unfortunately.

 

And apologies for my part in dragging your topic away from it's purpose by allowing myself to be dragged into a pointless argument about the merits of the test.

[malct]

And apologies for my part in dragging your topic away from it's purpose by allowing myself to be dragged into a pointless argument about the merits of the test.

 

No problem at all,  just getting over loosing £50 plus fuel over a single word , the wife best pass in 2 weeks time, trying to keep her studying rather than YouTube.

[theoldgit]

I do find it a tad worrying that the company who are contracted to run this test on behalf of the Government are also the final arbitrator in case of a complaint against themselves.

Simply saying that they have reached their decision in accordance with Home Office guidelines is a cop out.