London/Finsbury Park: 'Several hurt' as vehicle hits pedestrians

[kannot]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

If you start killing people because of their faith, or lack thereof, you're a terrorist.

and definition of faith =

 

strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

[kannot]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

If you start killing people because of their faith, or lack thereof, you're a terrorist.

I agree with that but do you find belief in something without evidence sane?  especially more so when the question is one of origins, not a  small matter by any means.

[simple1]

57 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Sorry i will leave it now  i cant be bothered "there are none so blind as those who do not want to see"

Original definition of terrorism under UK law - Terrorism Act 2000

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Act_2000

 

Follow up legislation:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Acts

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, kannot said:

I agree with that but do you find belief in something without evidence sane?  especially more so when the question is one of origins, not a  small matter by any means.

Doesn't matter what I believe. I was reacting to somebody who claimed this was not terrorist because there was no terrorist cell behind it.

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Personally I would prefer all alt right / fake news supporters and content on TV "expunged". In any case this guy's rant is just repetitions of what been said by the right of centre over and over and over again - IMO boring and without value.

Of course you do. That is a main tactic of the liberal left. Always seek to silence the opposing views, if this does not work than make personal attacks and ridicule every facet of the messenger or organization. Whatever you do, never ever have a straight on debate about the issues using logic and sober reasoning.

The right on the other hand have no fear of a level playing field or discussing things on their own merit. You don't see the right wing constantly calling for the silencing of left. That is because they understand the value of free speech.

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

You don't see the right wing constantly calling for the silencing of left. That is because they understand the value of free speech.

[simple1]

10 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

<snip>You don't see the right wing constantly calling for the silencing of left. 

 

[Ron19]

An off topic post and replies to it have been removed.

[kannot]

45 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Doesn't matter what I believe. I was reacting to somebody who claimed this was not terrorist because there was no terrorist cell behind it.

yes i understand that, just wondered on the other question

[dick dasterdly]

42 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Of course you do. That is a main tactic of the liberal left. Always seek to silence the opposing views, if this does not work than make personal attacks and ridicule every facet of the messenger or organization. Whatever you do, never ever have a straight on debate about the issues using logic and sober reasoning.

The right on the other hand have no fear of a level playing field or discussing things on their own merit. You don't see the right wing constantly calling for the silencing of left. That is because they understand the value of free speech.

 

30 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

canuckamuck has a point.  The extreme right wing are equally objectionable, and more likely to resort to violence against those with whom they dislike/disagree - but for this reason they support free speech, unless the hate speech comes from those with a different view.

Edited June 20, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[simple1]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

canuckamuck has a point.  The extreme right wing are equally objectionable, and more likely to resort to violence against those with whom they dislike/disagree - but for this reason they support free speech, unless the hate speech comes from those with a different view.

Correct. 

[stevenl]

32 minutes ago, kannot said:

yes i understand that, just wondered on the other question

I can understand people believing things without evidence, or with evidence they don't understand. I think many people who have faith don't necessarily believe God created earth in 6 days or there are 72 virgins waiting for them after they died, but do believe there is something more. IMO people who believe in the Bible, Koran or anything else like that literally are lacking in certain mental skills, but I don't believe people of faith are necessarily not sane.

 

And can we now get back on topic please.

Edited June 20, 2017 by stevenl

[kannot]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I can understand people believing things without evidence, or with evidence they don't understand. I think many people who have faith don't necessarily believe God created earth in 6 days or there are 72 virgins waiting for them after they died, but I do believe there is something more. IMO people who believe in the Bible, Koran or anything else like that literally are lacking in certain mental skills, but I don't believe people of faith are necessarily not sane.

 

And can we now get back on topic please.

thanks  just curious

[Flustered]

6 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Yes. London is truly multi-racial, and all the better for it.

Note: This should have been posted in the Jokes section.

[balo]

It was a Welsh family dad that did this , jut another drunk idiot and he probably wanted some sort of revenge . 

[chrisinth]

So, now we have reached the stage of reprisal attacks. Tit-for-Tat. The authorities for sure realize how dangerous this can be, the government needs to be educated about where this can lead.

 

I know it is not a mirror of what is now happening, but remember what happened to Northern Ireland (from 1969) and the damage and terror it brought to their communities. One side starts, the army is mobilized to defend those from the backlash, and the tit-for-tats began for the next 40+ years claiming thousands of lives.

 

Completely different agendas I know, but substitute Catholic/Protestant for Muslim/British and you may imagine a scenario of where this can lead.

 

One thing is true in situations like this, when asked what we learn from history, and that is that we learn nothing from history.

 

It is way past time that governments step up to the plate and come up with a positive plan of action to nullify the current situation.

 

Using whatever means necessary.

[canuckamuck]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

canuckamuck has a point.  The extreme right wing are equally objectionable, and more likely to resort to violence against those with whom they dislike/disagree - but for this reason they support free speech, unless the hate speech comes from those with a different view.

What I get from this is you admit the liberal/left is objectionable and that the right supports free speech. 

[dunroaming]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 5:48 AM, vogie said:

Top and bottom of it is that islam does not belong in our society, muslims do not want to integrate with the west, they bring their backward culture into the west and do not accept our values or culture. They want us to change for them, at the moment I have never seen England so volatile, it's like a tinderbox, maybe this is the start of something alien to us in the UK, like a fight back, who knows. But you can't keep blowing us up, knifing and running us down without someone blowing a gasket (btw I don't condone his actions,) everybody reacts differently to these attrocities.

Have you got many Muslim friends?

I've got plenty of Muslim friends but they are not friends because they are Muslims, they are just good solid members of my community.  They are British Muslims as they were born and raised here.  I also have Jewish friends and Sikh  friends and....  Then again I don't judge people by their religion, just by their character.

 

The lone wolf that carried out the attack was a misguided fool rather than a terrorist.  Similar to the people who went on the rampage in Europe and also similar to the right wing extremist that killed Jo Fox.

 

To say that Muslims don't want to integrate with the west is just ignorance.  The Muslims I know and see everywhere in Britain are part of the "west".  They were born here, raised here and schooled here, as are their children now.  They work in hospitals, as solicitors, doctors, lorry drivers, members of the armed forces and emergency services, shop assistants and just about in every section of British life.  Many have received gongs from the queen and some are now knights of the realm.

 

Time for the racist bigots to get with the programme.  Britain is a multi-cultural society and all the better for it.  The terrorists and extremists are the outsiders, (why do you think they are called extremists?) whatever colour or motivation they are

[brewsterbudgen]

Note: This should have been posted in the Jokes section.

Why? A multi-racial society might be a joke to you, but most Londoners are happy with it.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, chrisinth said:

Muslim/British

Succinctly put!

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Why? A multi-racial society might be a joke to you, but most Londoners are happy with it.

 Indeed.

 

The reactions and support from all members of the community, regardless of their ethnic origins or religion, shown to the victims of the recent tragic events in London and Manchester has shown that the majority of the British people are in total disagreement with the views posted by many of the expat members of this board.

 

But we only live in the UK, so obviously those expats know more about life here than we do (sarcasm)!

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Indeed.

 

The reactions and support from all members of the community, regardless of their ethnic origins or religion, shown to the victims of the recent tragic events in London and Manchester has shown that the majority of the British people are in total disagreement with the views posted by many of the expat members of this board.

 

But we only live in the UK, so obviously those expats know more about life here than we do (sarcasm)!

That's probably something to do with ethnic white Londoners are in the minority.

 

Fewer than half the people of London are white British, the 2011 census shows.

Latest figures show 45% of Londoners describe themselves as "white British" - a drop from the 58% in 2001.

[simple1]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Someone told me all British school dinners are halal? Is this true? I still think a halal boycott followed by an outright ban is a master stroke.

Not yet again going down this path. Muslim bashing within a topic about a terror attack against Muslims??? <deleted> - enough is enough

[Grouse]

 

 

This all WAY off topic and I refuse to fall into your man trap, whether halal or kosher.

[Scott]

Posts removed and suspensions given.  

 

Stay on topic and post in a civil manner.  

[iReason]

Donald Trump fails to address terror attack on London mosque and murdered Muslim woman

He's much quicker to express condolences when Muslims attack western nations, critics note (sub-title)

 

"Donald Trump has failed to personally acknowledge the attack on members of a mosque in London,

and the murder of a Muslim teenager in Virginia, prompting critics to attack his silence."

 

"Fifteen hours after a man drove a van into a group of Muslims near a London mosque, killing at least one and injuring 10 others, there was still no note of condolences from the President, the Washington Post posted in an editorial analysing Mr Trump’s response to terrorist attacks."

 

"He tweeted three and a half hours after the Paris attacks in November 2015, roughly 90 minutes after the San Bernardino, California attack, and fewer than 12 hours after an EgyptAir flight went missing in 2016, the editorial read."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-finsbury-park-attack-nabra-hassanen-response-muslim-girl-virginia-mosque-deaths-a7798206.html

[Mosha]

At least he wasn't home grown, Singapore born.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk

[Baerboxer]

On 6/19/2017 at 11:48 AM, vogie said:

Top and bottom of it is that islam does not belong in our society, muslims do not want to integrate with the west, they bring their backward culture into the west and do not accept our values or culture. They want us to change for them, at the moment I have never seen England so volatile, it's like a tinderbox, maybe this is the start of something alien to us in the UK, like a fight back, who knows. But you can't keep blowing us up, knifing and running us down without someone blowing a gasket (btw I don't condone his actions,) everybody reacts differently to these attrocities.

Have you got many Muslim friends?

 

Yes, I have quiet a lot of Muslim friends actually. In the UK, many who were either born there, or came with their parents when young. I also have friends in KSA, UAE, Qatar from various nationalities who are all Muslim.

 

None of them want to force their religion on anyone; convert the world or impose Sharia Law. None, even the Palestinians, are twisted and bitter.

 

However, what we also have in Britain are many Muslims who come from Pakistan and Afghanistan and are very aggressive, and very closed minded. They do want to live how they want, in accordance with their views and will try and force that on others. They also try hard to turn the areas of the UK in which they live into mirror images of the shittholes they originate from. These are the obnoxious scum bag types who have little to do with real Islam or most Muslim people. 

 

Muslim countries are not all the same. Just like Christian countries aren't. The UK has issues because of the large Pakistani community. The UAE has a large Pakistani community. But, any trouble and the perps are kicked out at once. They can live and work there, bring up their families but almost never become residents or get citizenship. First whiff of trouble, woosh gone after serving any jail time. We, the UK, have been far too tolerant and created the current situation by allowing these immigrants far too much latitude and making the police and authorities treat them softly.

 

Sad to see this attack, but surprising it's taken so long for someone to snap. Interesting response from Diane Abbott, back from her "illness". She immediately called this a "terror" attack and called for an urgent review of all Mosque's security by the police. Whereas she referred to the London and Manchester attacks as "incidents". It's that sort of political hypocrisy, double standards and preferential treatment that has encouraged exploitation by the radical and aggressive types.

[Flustered]

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

 

To say that Muslims don't want to integrate with the west is just ignorance. 

How do they integrate?

 

Do they let their daughters marry non Muslims and raise their children in a faith other than Islam?      I doubt it.

 

Do they give their children the option to grow up in a religion (or none) of their choice?      I doubt it

 

Would they put their country (Britain ) ahead of their religion. No.

 

What you live alongside is Multi Culturalism not integration.

 

 

[maxcorrigan]

23 hours ago, MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT said:

I'm a Londoner and he don't speak for me! mind you I'm not a Muslim.

Me too, and he certainly does not speak for me either!