Patong - The Wake

[phuketrichard]

phuket is a survivor and changes with the times.

look at the past 20 years and all that has happened....Always bounces back

Travel around the island and look at the huge projects going on..

 

[NamKangMan]

9 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

phuket is a survivor and changes with the times.

look at the past 20 years and all that has happened....Always bounces back

Travel around the island and look at the huge projects going on..

 

 

"Always bounces back" - it bounced back from natural disasters and disease, but when these can't be blamed, and the cause of a contracting economy is due to mismanagement, corruption, collusion, encroachment, over supply, lack of infrastructure, rising crime rate, violence and scams - what, or who, and how, does it bounce back from these????

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"Always bounces back" - it bounced back from natural disasters and disease, but when these can't be blamed, and the cause of a contracting economy is due to mismanagement, corruption, collusion, encroachment, over supply, lack of infrastructure, rising crime rate, violence and scams - what, or who, and how, does it bounce back from these????

 

Very boring NKM ... you are like a broken clock. At least you are correct twice each day. 

[NamKangMan]

17 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Very boring NKM ... you are like a broken clock. At least you are correct twice each day. 

 

Which would be twice more than most on this forum. 

[NamKangMan]

On 1/1/2018 at 3:29 AM, chercheur888 said:

Follow your expert opinion

 

My expert opinion would be not to put ANY skin in the game here, and to live your retirement years here risk free, with freedom of movement, and finacial stability.  Most have worked hard all their life to e here, so why spend up big on a property, or business, if you don't have to?

 

Have your money come in from your home country, spend it here, and have a good life. 

 

Don't try to make money here, and don't buy a bar or salon for a Thai hooker, thinking you are making an honest girl out of her.

 

How's that for "expert" advice, chercheur888????

[toughlove]

 
My expert opinion would be not to put ANY skin in the game here, and to live your retirement years here risk free, with freedom of movement, and finacial stability.  Most have worked hard all their life to e here, so why spend up big on a property, or business, if you don't have to?
 
Have your money come in from your home country, spend it here, and have a good life. 
 
Don't try to make money here, and don't buy a bar or salon for a Thai hooker, thinking you are making an honest girl out of her.
 
How's that for "expert" advice, chercheur888????

I guess it helps that 80% of farang have no choice but to live as renters.

I feel sorry for you and them. How do you end up working 50 years and end up in a fan room or a crappy studio?

[emoji26]

[NamKangMan]

11 minutes ago, toughlove said:

I guess it helps that 80% of farang have no choice but to live as renters.

I feel sorry for you and them. How do you end up working 50 years and end up in a fan room or a crappy studio?

 

 

I'm under 50 years old and retired here.  Totally out of your stereotype, toughlove. 

 

I could buy a place tomorrow, but why would I, or anyone else, for that matter.

 

If property ownership is so attractive on Phuket, what are there thousands, yes, thousands, of properties on the market here, with many of them being on the market for over 12 months, and well beyond, and they are still building more, and you think renting is not a smart move.

 

Let me guess, you are one of those "rent is dead money" generation.  May be true in the west, but not on Phuket. 

[toughlove]

 

 
I'm under 50 years old and retired here.  Totally out of your stereotype, toughlove. 
 
I could buy a place tomorrow, but why would I, or anyone else, for that matter.
 
If property ownership is so attractive on Phuket, what are there thousands, yes, thousands, of properties on the market here, with many of them being on the market for over 12 months, and well beyond, and they are still building more, and you think renting is not a smart move.
 
Let me guess, you are one of those "rent is dead money" generation.  May be true in the west, but not on Phuket. 

Rent is NOT cheap unless it's a fan room or crappy thai furnished studio . Top quality costs $$$

Whenever I hear cheap rent I and everyone else here knows exactly what that means.

[NamKangMan]

4 minutes ago, toughlove said:

Rent is NOT cheap unless it's a fan room or crappy thai furnished studio . Top quality costs $$$

Whenever I hear cheap rent I and everyone else here knows exactly what that means.

 

Did it ever occur to you the term "cheap rent" means in comparison to their home country????

[toughlove]

 
Did it ever occur to you the term "cheap rent" means in comparison to their home country????

Well as the majority of expats live in Tiny little studios it just shows they had a crap life in the West living in tiny little studios.

You can't sugar coat a wasted life. Now those guys have a tiny little pension thailand is the only place left to continue a tiny little existence.

Your not really coming across as a dude who can "buy a condo tomorrow"

[NamKangMan]

11 minutes ago, toughlove said:

Well as the majority of expats live in Tiny little studios it just shows they had a crap life in the West living in tiny little studios.

You can't sugar coat a wasted life. Now those guys have a tiny little pension thailand is the only place left to continue a tiny little existence.

Your not really coming across as a dude who can "buy a condo tomorrow"

 

I could easily buy a property here.  For me, it makes no economic sense, not to mention, unfavorable foreign ownership laws, poor construction methods and materials, and zero town planning regulations.

 

Would it make me more of an expat in your eyes if I did????  Would I be even more of an expat if i bought a bar as well????   Would I then commend more respect among fellow expats???? 

 

I have properties, shares, and cash at bank, across three different continents.  They can stay there, where they make me money, and I'll spend the proceeds here.

 

How many here now wish they had done the same, not to mention those that have already left here broke.

[Timbob]

1 hour ago, toughlove said:

Well as the majority of expats live in Tiny little studios it just shows they had a crap life in the West living in tiny little studios.

You can't sugar coat a wasted life. Now those guys have a tiny little pension thailand is the only place left to continue a tiny little existence.

What an ignorant comment. 

 

I rent a "tiny little studio" here in Patong for 6,500 a month and I'm rather fond of it, actually. I rented a 3 bedroom house for 23,000 in Hat Yai and then an apartment in Chiang Mai for 15,000 but I can honestly say that I prefer the "tiny little studio" here. I rent my 2 bedroom house in London for 10x this amount. I'm quite happy renting and have no desire to buy a condo here.

[Mysterion]

2 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I could easily buy a property here.  For me, it makes no economic sense, not to mention, unfavorable foreign ownership laws, poor construction methods and materials, and zero town planning regulations.

 

Would it make me more of an expat in your eyes if I did????  Would I be even more of an expat if i bought a bar as well????   Would I then commend more respect among fellow expats???? 

 

I have properties, shares, and cash at bank, across three different continents.  They can stay there, where they make me money, and I'll spend the proceeds here.

 

How many here now wish they had done the same, not to mention those that have already left here broke.

 

Regarding buying vs renting...

For a foreigner, buying an exisiting foreign freehold condo at the right price will significantly beat long-term renting of an equivalent unit every time(as long as you pay the right price to begin with).

 

As i have mentioned before, you can find some great deals on existing west-coast condos in phuket if you do your research. If you buy interior or east coast you are taking a bigger risk as supply/demand characteristics are not as attractive.

 

Better to buy and not burn money on rent if you fairly certain you plan on staying a few years or longer in one place.

 

The key to your success will be choosing a good location, finding a well maintained building, and at a reasonable price.

 

Regarding a business...

Opening a business anywhere in the world is a potential pandoras box of risks, not just in thailand.

 

Hope that helps.

 

cheers.

 

 

[Mysterion]

 

 

There are not “thousands, yes, thousands, of properties on the market here”.

 

There are maybe around 1000 exisiting/built condos available for sale, give or take 100 or 200, at any one time in Phuket. 

 

Most of the condos that are in decent locations are being rented out long term or seasonally while they remain up for sale, thus earning a yield.

 

Off-plan units are a different market. They are mostly far overpriced, and buyer beware some may never even get built.

 

There may indeed be “thousands” of off-plan units being offered, but half or less may actually have enough sales to ever get built. 

 

[xylophone]

11 hours ago, toughlove said:

Rent is NOT cheap unless it's a fan room or crappy thai furnished studio . Top quality costs $$$

Whenever I hear cheap rent I and everyone else here knows exactly what that means.

Disagree.........rent is cheap here by comparison to others countries and some places are well furnished, with aircon etc.

 

Next time you hear the words "cheap rent" think of those of us retirees who have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested elsewhere in various investments, have their own cars and bikes and who regularly spent upwards of 1.25 million baht a year here on living expenses alone AND who could buy any sort of property they wanted.

 

The point a lot of people miss is that these folk DON'T WANT TO BUY HERE because reselling the place if they want to move is damn near impossible, and having no money tied up in dead real estate means they (we) can move absolutely anywhere at the "drop of a hat"..........that feeling of freedom is hard to put a value on.

[toughlove]

Disagree.........rent is cheap here by comparison to others countries and some places are well furnished, with aircon etc.
 
Next time you hear the words "cheap rent" think of those of us retirees who have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested elsewhere in various investments, have their own cars and bikes and who regularly spent upwards of 1.25 million baht a year here on living expenses alone AND who could buy any sort of property they wanted.
 
The point a lot of people miss is that these folk DON'T WANT TO BUY HERE because reselling the place if they want to move is damn near impossible, and having no money tied up in dead real estate means they (we) can move absolutely anywhere at the "drop of a hat"..........that feeling of freedom is hard to put a value on.

Your right for the 20% but for the rest cheap rent is not a luxury condo comparison to the West but what they can afford and that's a cheap little shoe box.

[xylophone]

34 minutes ago, toughlove said:

38 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Disagree.........rent is cheap here by comparison to others countries and some places are well furnished, with aircon etc.
 
Next time you hear the words "cheap rent" think of those of us retirees who have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested elsewhere in various investments, have their own cars and bikes and who regularly spent upwards of 1.25 million baht a year here on living expenses alone AND who could buy any sort of property they wanted.
 
The point a lot of people miss is that these folk DON'T WANT TO BUY HERE because reselling the place if they want to move is damn near impossible, and having no money tied up in dead real estate means they (we) can move absolutely anywhere at the "drop of a hat"..........that feeling of freedom is hard to put a value on.

Your right for the 20% but for the rest cheap rent is not a luxury condo comparison to the West but what they can afford and that's a cheap little shoe box.

Ever thought that at a certain age and stage of life a small apt could be ideal for their needs......I certainly did! 

 

Having owned various types of houses in the UK and NZ, and also buying 2 houses here (and selling them) I found that I didn't need any more space than that of my small apt, with a good sized balcony..........compact and cosy, minimal cleaning and a large balcony to sit on whilst having a nice glass of wine, overlooking Patong.

 

An added bonus..............I had to ditch all of the "rubbish/non-essential" things I had accumulated over the years, and it was a good feeling.

 

I really don't see your point with regards to the living choices of retirees here because they can get what suits them or their budget, and still have a good life in a country which has the benefits of climate, good food/restaurants and in general, nice people........whereas back home??????

[phuketrichard]

19 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Did it ever occur to you the term "cheap rent" means in comparison to their home country????

 

 

rent is cheap and better than buying ( at least if u buy now) as you wont get your money back, IF u can sell it.

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, phuketrichard said:

 

 

rent is cheap and better than buying ( at least if u buy now) as you wont get your money back, IF u can sell it.

 

If you intend to live in phuket for several years or longer, buying is the best idea. Don't burn your money by renting.

 

Just be sure to buy something in a good location and at the right price and you will be happy long term.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

19 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

Regarding buying vs renting...

For a foreigner, buying an exisiting foreign freehold condo at the right price will significantly beat long-term renting of an equivalent unit every time(as long as you pay the right price to begin with).

 

As i have mentioned before, you can find some great deals on existing west-coast condos in phuket if you do your research. If you buy interior or east coast you are taking a bigger risk as supply/demand characteristics are not as attractive.

 

Better to buy and not burn money on rent if you fairly certain you plan on staying a few years or longer in one place.

 

The key to your success will be choosing a good location, finding a well maintained building, and at a reasonable price.

 

Regarding a business...

Opening a business anywhere in the world is a potential pandoras box of risks, not just in thailand.

 

Hope that helps.

 

cheers.

 

 

 

"For a foreigner, buying an exisiting foreign freehold condo at the right price will significantly beat long-term renting" - how so?  The money they want for a condo / apartment here, even at a "reasonable deal" still earns me more than what I pay in rent here. 

 

So, why wouldn't I keep that money working for me elsewhere, use what it it earns to pay the rent here, and keep the difference as a profit, so to speak?

 

And this basic math doesn't even consider visa laws, over supply of properties on the market, foreign ownership laws, political instability, currency fluctuations, town planning, taxes, fees, maintenance etc etc. 

 

"Better to buy and not burn money on rent" - but the money is not "burnt money."  It's money that is earned with the same capital outlay as buying here, but with a surplus left over.  

 

"The key to your success will be choosing a good location" - success in what????  Capital gain????  They keep building and building here.  That decreases the value of existing second hand housing stock.  For me, the "success" is I am renting, and still making money on that capital, because I haven't bought here.  Renting here makes me money, not costs me money.  It's not rocket science. 

 

In relation to the opening a business comment I made, that is beyond risky now.  "Pandora has a larger box on Phuket than many other places in Thailand, let alone, any other city / country. 

[NamKangMan]

19 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

 

There are not “thousands, yes, thousands, of properties on the market here”.

 

There are maybe around 1000 exisiting/built condos available for sale, give or take 100 or 200, at any one time in Phuket. 

 

Most of the condos that are in decent locations are being rented out long term or seasonally while they remain up for sale, thus earning a yield.

 

Off-plan units are a different market. They are mostly far overpriced, and buyer beware some may never even get built.

 

There may indeed be “thousands” of off-plan units being offered, but half or less may actually have enough sales to ever get built. 

 

 

"There are not “thousands, yes, thousands, of properties on the market here”." - "There are maybe around 1000 exisiting/built condos available for sale,"

 

Doesn't that make it in "the thousands" for sale here????  Your words, not mine. 

 

"Most of the condos that are in decent locations are being rented out long term or seasonally while they remain up for sale," - I accept that, but doesn't that mean the owner of the property wants out????  Ever wonder why that may be the case, with so many of of them on the market????

 

As far as buying off the plan, that's the equivalent of a "sick buffalo" in Issan story for buying a property here.  Total lies, and scam.  

 

 

[NamKangMan]

11 hours ago, xylophone said:

Disagree.........rent is cheap here by comparison to others countries and some places are well furnished, with aircon etc.

 

Next time you hear the words "cheap rent" think of those of us retirees who have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested elsewhere in various investments, have their own cars and bikes and who regularly spent upwards of 1.25 million baht a year here on living expenses alone AND who could buy any sort of property they wanted.

 

The point a lot of people miss is that these folk DON'T WANT TO BUY HERE because reselling the place if they want to move is damn near impossible, and having no money tied up in dead real estate means they (we) can move absolutely anywhere at the "drop of a hat"..........that feeling of freedom is hard to put a value on.

 

Well said, XP.

 

Sums it up perfectly, and in my case, I have the other small issue of being under 50 years of age, so, it's not beyond the rlems of possibility that if I did buy a property here, I may not even be able to live in my own place here.  

 

So, apart from my money working for me harder than the cost of my rent here, I have the risk of possibly not being allowed to live in the very property i have bought here.

 

So, why bother???? 

[Mysterion]

8 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"For a foreigner, buying an exisiting foreign freehold condo at the right price will significantly beat long-term renting" - how so?  The money they want for a condo / apartment here, even at a "reasonable deal" still earns me more than what I pay in rent here. 

 

So, why wouldn't I keep that money working for me elsewhere, use what it it earns to pay the rent here, and keep the difference as a profit, so to speak?

 

And this basic math doesn't even consider visa laws, over supply of properties on the market, foreign ownership laws, political instability, currency fluctuations, town planning, taxes, fees, maintenance etc etc. 

 

"Better to buy and not burn money on rent" - but the money is not "burnt money."  It's money that is earned with the same capital outlay as buying here, but with a surplus left over.  

 

"The key to your success will be choosing a good location" - success in what????  Capital gain????  They keep building and building here.  That decreases the value of existing second hand housing stock.  For me, the "success" is I am renting, and still making money on that capital, because I haven't bought here.  Renting here makes me money, not costs me money.  It's not rocket science. 

 

In relation to the opening a business comment I made, that is beyond risky now.  "Pandora has a larger box on Phuket than many other places in Thailand, let alone, any other city / country. 

Again, if you bought/buy for the right price, in the right location, you can make a great yield and/or capital gain in Phuket, just as you can in other parts of the world.

 

You need to do your research to find the deals. I know of a number of properties that yield about 10% per year if rented out for three or four months only in the high season.

 

Almost always better to own vs renting long term if you buy at a the right price in a good location and there is potential for a capital gain. 

 

In regards to businesses, some expats are making great profits, while others are losing money. Risks/rewards are generally on par with anywhere else.

[Mysterion]

8 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"There are not “thousands, yes, thousands, of properties on the market here”." - "There are maybe around 1000 exisiting/built condos available for sale,"

 

Doesn't that make it in "the thousands" for sale here????  Your words, not mine. 

 

"Most of the condos that are in decent locations are being rented out long term or seasonally while they remain up for sale," - I accept that, but doesn't that mean the owner of the property wants out????  Ever wonder why that may be the case, with so many of of them on the market????

 

As far as buying off the plan, that's the equivalent of a "sick buffalo" in Issan story for buying a property here.  Total lies, and scam.  

 

 

A thousand

units is not at all the same as the “thousands” that you claimed. Big difference.

 

You need to decide if it is a thousand, or the “thousands” that you claim to be available for sale??? 

 

Almost every house that exists is for sale, publicly or privately, for the right offer.

 

Foreign investors are almost always interested to sell their homes if given a good offer: They may often put it up for sale and let it sit on the market as they simultaneously collect their rental yields. A common and wise business practice.

 

If you believe you can get a better total return(income and cap gain) elsewhere, thats what makes a market.

However, many people also believe they can get a better total return in phuket property.

[NamKangMan]

16 hours ago, Mysterion said:

A thousand

units is not at all the same as the “thousands” that you claimed. Big difference.

 

You need to decide if it is a thousand, or the “thousands” that you claim to be available for sale??? 

 

Almost every house that exists is for sale, publicly or privately, for the right offer.

 

Foreign investors are almost always interested to sell their homes if given a good offer: They may often put it up for sale and let it sit on the market as they simultaneously collect their rental yields. A common and wise business practice.

 

If you believe you can get a better total return(income and cap gain) elsewhere, thats what makes a market.

However, many people also believe they can get a better total return in phuket property.

 

I have done this before, I'll do it again, for your benefit.

 

Siam Real Estate is one of the bigger online realtors, so I will use them as an example.

 

Phuket All Locations - House / Villa - 517 properties for sale.

                                      -   Condo / Apartments - 308 properties for sale.

                                      -  Villa / Condo - 825 properties for sale.

 

I did not include land and commercial property. 

                                     

Total - 1650 properties for sale, on just ONE online website. 

 

Then, there are a multitude of other websites, and privates sales, and simple "for sale" signs on the front of properties, so, YES, there are THOUSANDS of properties for sale here, many of which have been on the market for over a year, with many on the market for several years. 

 

Check out the figures for yourself.  Here's the link. 

 

https://www.siamrealestate.com/

 

 

 

[madmax2]

Why would a single male with no family in Thailand invest in property here which he cannot own personally, only thru a thai partner which he does not have or a thai company which he controls the voting rights in which is not legal, he's better off renting, rents are cheap and you can shift any time you want to

All the expats i know have Thai wifes or long term partners and have invested in property here in their wife's name or a company name, they really are expats and have made Thailand their home and has no problem investing money here for their Thai families eventual benefit

 

If you shop around there are still good buys that come up even now, if you inspect a property with a agent make your offer thru him/her,but agents here are absolutely useless and do not have a clue how to inspect or value a property and just put it on the market at the vendors inflated asking price, thats why so many properties have been on the market for over 7 years

 

If you have a  area you are interested in buying property in let the local owners know you are a potential buyer and deal directly with them and do your own due diligence as the agents do not do it and have no clue about the outgoing expenses on properties or who the actual legal owner is from my own personal experience of dealing with them

If after you have done due diligence  you are still interested in buying a property make it full payment in cash on settlement, do not pay a deposit as you are very unlikely to get it back if the property is not as described by the vendor/agent and the only way you may get your money back is by using a professional debt collector, better of paying them from the money they collect from dishonest people       

[steelepulse]

14 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I have done this before, I'll do it again, for your benefit.

 

Siam Real Estate is one of the bigger online realtors, so I will use them as an example.

 

Phuket All Locations - House / Villa - 517 properties for sale.

                                      -   Condo / Apartments - 308 properties for sale.

                                      -  Villa / Condo - 825 properties for sale.

 

I did not include land and commercial property. 

                                     

Total - 1650 properties for sale, on just ONE online website. 

 

Then, there are a multitude of other websites, and privates sales, and simple "for sale" signs on the front of properties, so, YES, there are THOUSANDS of properties for sale here, many of which have been on the market for over a year, with many on the market for several years. 

 

Check out the figures for yourself.  Here's the link. 

 

https://www.siamrealestate.com/

 

 

 

You do realize that they are notorious for not pulling down listings that either got sold, rented out or were taken off the market.  So who knows how many actual live listings there are there.  

[Old Croc]

18 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

You do realize that they are notorious for not pulling down listings that either got sold, rented out or were taken off the market.  So who knows how many actual live listings there are there.  

He had this explained to him years ago, but like many people of his ilk didn't take it in.

[Mysterion]

17 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I have done this before, I'll do it again, for your benefit.

 

Siam Real Estate is one of the bigger online realtors, so I will use them as an example.

 

Phuket All Locations - House / Villa - 517 properties for sale.

                                      -   Condo / Apartments - 308 properties for sale.

                                      -  Villa / Condo - 825 properties for sale.

 

I did not include land and commercial property. 

                                     

Total - 1650 properties for sale, on just ONE online website. 

 

Then, there are a multitude of other websites, and privates sales, and simple "for sale" signs on the front of properties, so, YES, there are THOUSANDS of properties for sale here, many of which have been on the market for over a year, with many on the market for several years. 

 

Check out the figures for yourself.  Here's the link. 

 

https://www.siamrealestate.com/

 

 

 

Firstly, you have somehow mistakenly doubled the actual amount of villa/condos for sale on their website. There was only a total of 825 villa and condos for sale. Not “1650 properties”, and  far less than the “thousands” you claimed earlier.

 

Secondly, villas are not legally for sale to foreigners, and according to their website, there are only 309 apartments and condos for sale. Of which, only 50-60% would probably be foreign freehold units.

 

Therefore, they are only offering about 150-180 properties that are available for foreigners to legally own freehold. That is actually a very small supply of units considering that the estate agency is one of the biggest, if not the biggest sellers in Phuket.

 

Btw, many of the same units on the market are often offered on multiple websites, so be careful assuming that each website offers a unique set of properties.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mysterion]

3 hours ago, madmax2 said:

Why would a single male with no family in Thailand invest in property here which he cannot own personally, only thru a thai partner which he does not have or a thai company which he controls the voting rights in which is not legal, he's better off renting, rents are cheap and you can shift any time you want to

All the expats i know have Thai wifes or long term partners and have invested in property here in their wife's name or a company name, they really are expats and have made Thailand their home and has no problem investing money here for their Thai families eventual benefit

 

If you shop around there are still good buys that come up even now, if you inspect a property with a agent make your offer thru him/her,but agents here are absolutely useless and do not have a clue how to inspect or value a property and just put it on the market at the vendors inflated asking price, thats why so many properties have been on the market for over 7 years

 

If you have a  area you are interested in buying property in let the local owners know you are a potential buyer and deal directly with them and do your own due diligence as the agents do not do it and have no clue about the outgoing expenses on properties or who the actual legal owner is from my own personal experience of dealing with them

If after you have done due diligence  you are still interested in buying a property make it full payment in cash on settlement, do not pay a deposit as you are very unlikely to get it back if the property is not as described by the vendor/agent and the only way you may get your money back is by using a professional debt collector, better of paying them from the money they collect from dishonest people       

Are you aware that foreigners can legally buy and own foreign freehold condo units?