Patong - The Wake

[billythehat]

18 hours ago, xylophone said:

I think my words have come back to haunt me and your post has prompted me to post this.

 

A month or so ago I suggested that the numbers of Chinese tourists was noticeably down and others have also posted likewise, and I alluded to the same in my previous post, however today was a day when Patong had a Chinese invasion.........they were everywhere, a bit like ants swarming.

 

It was almost as if a score of jumbo jets had landed and disgorged the contents, mainly towards the venue of Patong – – Big C today was crowded with Chinese buying their usual junk (sorry about the pun), clogging up the aisles and just about everywhere else that could be clogged up, with nary a thought for other shoppers.

 

Although the Siam basement in Jungceylon wasn't too bad, the food hall was a sight to behold; the place was almost packed with Chinese, with just a couple of farangs in sight and something which made me chuckle, a table around which sat six Indians, all asleep and either slumped in the chair or with head on the table! Obviously learnt from the Chinese how to sleep in busy and crowded places on uncomfortable chairs.

…and talking to my hotel owner he said that business had been pretty pony all year with no real spikes to smooth out the low season pain. All the hotels in his soi were suffering badly too with a few reports of banks starting to call in the repeated missed payments. The story flowed down to the restaurants/Bars/other businesses, ‘no people, don’t know what happened…’ a common response when asked about the state of the industry. My own observations have been similar to some of the inmates here; packs of rude Chinese and Ruskies but far less Europeans as seen in previous years. The over-supply off massage shops is even more apparent now and a once charming bunch of lasses have become a quite distasteful mercenary pack of Hyena’s – desperate business indeed. Dreadful shame (my opinion as an occasional visitor) as I knew the place in its halcyon days, but nothing lasts forever and the island will evolve into whatever it will for the prevailing demographic.

Edited December 23, 2018 by billythehat

[NamKangMan]

On 12/23/2018 at 4:50 PM, billythehat said:

…and talking to my hotel owner he said that business had been pretty pony all year with no real spikes to smooth out the low season pain. All the hotels in his soi were suffering badly too with a few reports of banks starting to call in the repeated missed payments. The story flowed down to the restaurants/Bars/other businesses, ‘no people, don’t know what happened…’ a common response when asked about the state of the industry. My own observations have been similar to some of the inmates here; packs of rude Chinese and Ruskies but far less Europeans as seen in previous years. The over-supply off massage shops is even more apparent now and a once charming bunch of lasses have become a quite distasteful mercenary pack of Hyena’s – desperate business indeed. Dreadful shame (my opinion as an occasional visitor) as I knew the place in its halcyon days, but nothing lasts forever and the island will evolve into whatever it will for the prevailing demographic.

 

"nothing lasts forever and the island will evolve into whatever it will for the prevailing demographic." - whilst I agree, "nothing lasts for ever" much of what has taken place on Phuket, and continues to take place, or "evolve" as you say, could have been either prevented, controlled, or incorporated into the tourism industry here. 

 

The tourism industry on Phuket has been, and continues to be, administered very poorly, thus, Phuket is where it is today, due to extremely poor Governance, mainly due to corruption. 

 

You can't blame a tsunami, terrorists attacks, bird flu, swine flu, global financial crisis etc etc for the destination Phuket has finally arrived at.  Phuket had been heading to where it is now for years. 

[Patong2]

16 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"nothing lasts forever and the island will evolve into whatever it will for the prevailing demographic." - whilst I agree, "nothing lasts for ever" much of what has taken place on Phuket, and continues to take place, or "evolve" as you say, could have been either prevented, controlled, or incorporated into the tourism industry here. 

 

The tourism industry on Phuket has been, and continues to be, administered very poorly, thus, Phuket is where it is today, due to extremely poor Governance, mainly due to corruption. 

 

You can't blame a tsunami, terrorists attacks, bird flu, swine flu, global financial crisis etc etc for the destination Phuket has finally arrived at.  Phuket had been heading to where it is now for years. 

All very true

 

but walking on the beach this Xmas morning it is still a great place to be.

Such variety, chaos, craziness, beauty and some really nice people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xylophone]

6 hours ago, Patong2 said:

All very true

 

but walking on the beach this Xmas morning it is still a great place to be.

Such variety, chaos, craziness, beauty and some really nice people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said Patong2, for all that it is or it isn't, Patong does have the variety and a certain vivaciousness (in the broader sense) that makes one feel alive.

 

And there's a trick to that......how can you get ripped off in so many ways, yet still enjoy the experience?

 

A little sarcasm I know but it is this feeling of being alive, that something is always going on that brings me back here whenever I visit my old country, and as has been said by others, I learn to look for the workarounds to the not-so-pleasant things, to make my stay worthwhile.

[xylophone]

Well just to prove me wrong, I had to look long and hard last night for the "workarounds" in order to keep my sanity here.

 

I decided to head into Phuket town from Patong at about 5.30 pm, which was a huge mistake because the traffic was just about at a standstill everywhere and the amount of crazy/stupid driving was evident all round, and at one time I saw a young couple, the driver at about 15 and his girl passenger about 14, neither wearing crash helmets, screaming in and out of the slow-moving traffic at a pace which would not have allowed them to stop in an emergency. And I had a certain amount of sadness at that very moment because I realised that at any moment in time they could be wiped out and that would be the end of young dreams – – so sad and so stupid were my thoughts.

 

On the way back into Patong, the traffic was very bad indeed and it took me about 30 minutes to get from the Shooting Range at the bottom of the hill, to the Wat at the bottom of the hill, on the Patong side and in doing so encountered some absolutely crazy driving, crazy would be too nice, because this was just plain stupidity and 50% of the riders had no crash helmets, and this included a few farangs, and the speed at which some were going weaving in and out of the traffic, was just unbelievable, madness in fact.

 

In addition I saw the abysmal driving skills of many Thais, with at least one saloon car unable to execute a hill start, rolling backwards into the car behind it amongst much tooting of horns, this along with the un-signalled lane changing made it a very nervy journey indeed.

 

Coupled with that is the fact that when the "new middle road" was built I, along with many local expats I know commented on the fact that it really didn't solve anything, just making the traffic jams a lot longer.

 

Indeed now that this road is mostly at a standstill, sometimes even in the off-season, the cars and minivans are taking a shortcut through Nanai road, making that an absolute nightmare at certain times of the day, and of course clogging up traffic where the Sainamyen/Baanmon road actually meets the main Patong Hill Road, again by the Wat, so gridlocks all round thanks to the non-planning.

 

Yes it is a complaint, however it is one that us Patong dwellers have to deal with and find a workaround to it, and the good thing is that mainly in the low season most of these roads are very negotiable, but what it doesn't exclude is the incompetence of the town planners and the utter stupidity of drivers, and their driving habits, and this to me comes a close 1st to the outright and barefaced corruption from officials here, emanating from the very top.

 

The things we do for the lifestyle we want!!

[xylophone]

Changing tack slightly here, although the subject matter (Fasten your seatbelts for a bumpy 2019 [Editorial]) does mention Phuket and on this thread about Patong, the subject has often been discussed and commented on and it relates to the property sector and the unbridled building going on here, and it makes interesting reading.......

 

"While the after-effects of the Phuket ferry tragedy that killed dozens of Chinese tourists in July might have faded, hopes of a quick return to the good old days are unlikely to be realised since the Chinese economy itself faces a new reality of slowing growth amid the trade war with the US.
 
Hence, Thailand can expect fewer Chinese tourists and investors, including those looking to buy Thai condominium units and other property.
 
The Thai property sector is also witnessing the spectre of an oversupply which is turning more worrisome. Besides the emerging glut from several mega-development projects – especially those combining residential, retail, hotel and office space – household and personal debts have jumped among investors-cum-speculators who are over-leveraging their borrowing capacity in hope of lucrative returns in the property sector.
 
One banker reports that property speculation is rife among unscrupulous borrowers, who are securing multiple multimillion-baht loans to buy condo units beyond their payback capacity. For example, with a monthly salary of Bt50,000, you can get multiple loans for, say, four or five separate condo units whose developers are desperate for buyers.
 
Each unit may cost anywhere from Bt2 million to Bt5 million, boosting the individual borrower’s debts to over Bt10 million on a monthly income of Bt50,000. Investors can load up their borrowing in this way by applying for loans simultaneously so as to evade banks’ risk-assessment mechanisms"

 

Many posters here have commented on the empty buildings, sparsely populated hotels, guest houses and apartment blocks, but the building goes on. It goes on despite the fact there is a glut of houses, apartments and condos on the market, some which haven't moved for years.

 

As I write this I stare out of my window at a medium to large hotel which would be at best about 25% occupied, with another one nearby in a similar situation and I would be one of many who have suggested that this market is overheated, but this does not seem to deter the developers/builders/sellers of such projects – – such is the way in Thailand until they complain about the "unexpected crash".

 

A good thing for Patong, or not, whichever way you look at it, you could still apply the terminology, "Patong the wake" to it.......

 

[steelepulse]

>>but this does not seem to deter the developers/builders/sellers of such projects

 

If you can get away with not having to build at all, or at best spend a few million to appear that you are building an apt block, business has been very good.  Form a company, make a pretty miniature scale model, offer 7% roi for 3 years and watch the deposits and monthly payments flow in.   Wash, rinse repeat.

 

Until there are serious consequences to this business model in the form of personal asset forfeiture, lengthy jail time, etc, this will be an ongoing scam and blight the landscape.

[Psimbo]

Re the comment above about traffic- that was one of the main factors for me moving out of Patong. I lived at the South end of Nanai (Soi Thamdee) and the haul along there was a nightmare, not helped by the first lot of 'French' ghetto dwellers who took up residence down on Nanai.  Trying to drive a truck along there was a ballsache and it was common to see one of these idiots racing towards me having forgotten which side of the rad they were supposed to be on. This was 7 years ago and its only got worse. 

[Patong2]

41 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

>>but this does not seem to deter the developers/builders/sellers of such projects

 

If you can get away with not having to build at all, or at best spend a few million to appear that you are building an apt block, business has been very good.  Form a company, make a pretty miniature scale model, offer 7% roi for 3 years and watch the deposits and monthly payments flow in.   Wash, rinse repeat.

 

Until there are serious consequences to this business model in the form of personal asset forfeiture, lengthy jail time, etc, this will be an ongoing scam and blight the landscape.

 To be fair though, this is not restricted to Thailand.

 

Done ad infinitum in New Zealand, Australia and US that I personally know of.

Homework is just so important.

 

Spare a thought for those poor owners and tenants in the Opal Tower in Sydney, a terrible time for them and it will cost them dearly before they can get back in and finalised. Imagine being a landlord with a long term lease to a tenant?

Edited December 28, 2018 by Patong2

[billythehat]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Changing tack slightly here, although the subject matter (Fasten your seatbelts for a bumpy 2019 [Editorial]) does mention Phuket and on this thread about Patong, the subject has often been discussed and commented on and it relates to the property sector and the unbridled building going on here, and it makes interesting reading.......

 

"While the after-effects of the Phuket ferry tragedy that killed dozens of Chinese tourists in July might have faded, hopes of a quick return to the good old days are unlikely to be realised since the Chinese economy itself faces a new reality of slowing growth amid the trade war with the US.
 
Hence, Thailand can expect fewer Chinese tourists and investors, including those looking to buy Thai condominium units and other property.
 
The Thai property sector is also witnessing the spectre of an oversupply which is turning more worrisome. Besides the emerging glut from several mega-development projects – especially those combining residential, retail, hotel and office space – household and personal debts have jumped among investors-cum-speculators who are over-leveraging their borrowing capacity in hope of lucrative returns in the property sector.
 
One banker reports that property speculation is rife among unscrupulous borrowers, who are securing multiple multimillion-baht loans to buy condo units beyond their payback capacity. For example, with a monthly salary of Bt50,000, you can get multiple loans for, say, four or five separate condo units whose developers are desperate for buyers.
 
Each unit may cost anywhere from Bt2 million to Bt5 million, boosting the individual borrower’s debts to over Bt10 million on a monthly income of Bt50,000. Investors can load up their borrowing in this way by applying for loans simultaneously so as to evade banks’ risk-assessment mechanisms"

 

Many posters here have commented on the empty buildings, sparsely populated hotels, guest houses and apartment blocks, but the building goes on. It goes on despite the fact there is a glut of houses, apartments and condos on the market, some which haven't moved for years.

 

As I write this I stare out of my window at a medium to large hotel which would be at best about 25% occupied, with another one nearby in a similar situation and I would be one of many who have suggested that this market is overheated, but this does not seem to deter the developers/builders/sellers of such projects – – such is the way in Thailand until they complain about the "unexpected crash".

 

A good thing for Patong, or not, whichever way you look at it, you could still apply the terminology, "Patong the wake" to it.......

 

"One banker reports that property speculation is rife among unscrupulous borrowers, who are securing multiple multimillion-baht loans to buy condo units beyond their payback capacity. For example, with a monthly salary of Bt50,000, you can get multiple loans for, say, four or five separate condo units whose developers are desperate for buyers."

 

Did these scum learn nothing from the 2009 global crash? If they know they are being scammed, whatever happened to due diligence by the bank(s) to protect its' own customers money? "risk assessment mechanisms"....sheesh...

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[madmitch]

Just seen this on Facebook

 

Sell Bar Rental Business Soi Freedom Bangla Patong Phuket 10 year contract for sale 90 million baht Monthly rent 250,000 baht per month with more than 20 bars Current income per month is about 2 million baht.

 

Sems like someone's trying to get out before the bar market crashes! That also implies those bars are paying 100,000 baht per month in rent. Neither the bar nor the rental business sound a very attractive proposition to me in the current, and probably future, climate.

[xylophone]

36 minutes ago, madmitch said:

Just seen this on Facebook

 

Sell Bar Rental Business Soi Freedom Bangla Patong Phuket 10 year contract for sale 90 million baht Monthly rent 250,000 baht per month with more than 20 bars Current income per month is about 2 million baht.

 

Sems like someone's trying to get out before the bar market crashes! That also implies those bars are paying 100,000 baht per month in rent. Neither the bar nor the rental business sound a very attractive proposition to me in the current, and probably future, climate.

I think you'll find that this is the TOTAL SOI for sale mmitch.........................not surprising given the very poor numbers of customers who have been visiting of late ( well for many, many months actually) and closed bars, as well as those who cannot pay their bills (rent, elect etc).

 

A no-brainer mm.

[LivinginKata]

55 minutes ago, madmitch said:

Just seen this on Facebook

 

Sell Bar Rental Business Soi Freedom Bangla Patong Phuket 10 year contract for sale 90 million baht Monthly rent 250,000 baht per month with more than 20 bars Current income per month is about 2 million baht.

 

 

'10 year contract' - That's unusual. Usually 3 year contract as that the minimum legal period, some serious money being asked here.

[LivinginKata]

27 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I think you'll find that this is the TOTAL SOI for sale mmitch.........................not surprising given the very poor numbers of customers who have been visiting of late ( well for many, many months actually) and closed bars, as well as those who cannot pay their bills (rent, elect etc).

 

A no-brainer mm.

 

Do you think Bar Funk on Soi Crocodile is taking business away from the other Bangla Sois.

[Lashay]

17 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

'10 year contract' - That's unusual. Usually 3 year contract as that the minimum legal period, some serious money being asked here.

Basically remainder of his 15 year contract (though he always claimed had a 20 year?).

 

Though he does not really give damn about that Soi anymore (or ever), he made his money back day he opened with all the 9 year key money bar contracts he sold. This is only a small discount on what it was claimed he originally paid for 15 years, except new owner cannot even get new key money on most of big bars for another 4 years nor can they do much until then unless they want to buy out existing bar owners contracts. If someone bites they will make money but doubt enough to justify the massive outlay. Also have to question that 2 million a month, know what a lot of the bars down there pay and numbers dont add up.

2 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Do you think Bar Funk on Soi Crocodile is taking business away from the other Bangla Sois.

Not really, Bar funk is mainly taking from other main street bars near it. Soi customers are a very different (though declining) market

[xylophone]

15 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Do you think Bar Funk on Soi Crocodile is taking business away from the other Bangla Sois.

Quite possibly, LiK but think this is the Soi owner trying to sell the whole Soi with its bars et al.

 

Not surprising given the poor level of customers as the change in demographics has hit it hard.

Edited January 13, 2019 by xylophone

[billythehat]

9 hours ago, xylophone said:

Quite possibly, LiK but think this is the Soi owner trying to sell the whole Soi with its bars et al.

 

Not surprising given the poor level of customers as the change in demographics has hit it hard.

Aye, and I can think you can add poor levels of customer service to that list too. I know a couple of bar keeps in that Soi and both said that business had been desperate all year with the lack of the regulars plus the trouble they have getting the girls. Without the good customer service and girls, the fun has long disappeared and therefore little inducement for customer return. Chatting to a lad at one of the bars he asked why he was paying more for a small beer than he would at home (UK) just to look at a few porky lasses with tramp stamps; I could only smile and said “How long have you got, son!” The Patong party itself is pretty much over for those that had seen the halcyon days on the island. Prices, attitudes and demographic have radically changed the once affordable paradise in a relatively short time and this year I left with (unusually) no sorrow for not staying any longer. The Thais have made their own bed here but I do have a certain sadness for those guys that have put their hearts, souls and squillions of Baht into businesses there and soon will likely to be sitting on a pile of negative equity and misery. A few have done well, like Pik who’s built a property portfolio to rival any Thai hi-so (and consequently doesn’t give a rat’s bottom), but many who got in late are not living the dream. I mentioned before about the desperate business I noted whilst wobbling around the town, observed from just one year of absence, this desperation not acknowledged by the Ruskies and the Chinese as they’ve never known the island in former times – not that they care anyway! Yes, the young farang bucks who like the techno clubs are catered for, but for me and I suspect many others, that is not their scene. The one thing constant is change and Phuket is what it now is. Concerning the sale of said Soi, I can’t see the value in trying to sell the bars (in terminal decline) as part of the package but rather the value of the plot as a whole, similar to what happened to the old Soi Gonzo. On the other hand, keep the bars and see how long they can flog a dead horse/buffalo. Having travelled all over Lalaland since 2001 I can say that Phuket has definitely become the most expensive holiday destination out of all the popular locations, in-hand with offering the least value for your buck. This has of course been compounded by the continued devaluation of major currencies over the last 10-15 years but still doesn’t really explain why the service levels should decrease in the same manner.

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, billythehat said:

The Patong party itself is pretty much over for those that had seen the halcyon days on the island. Prices, attitudes and demographic have radically changed the once affordable paradise in a relatively short time

Lots of good points BTH and I suppose the "Patong party" will continue for the younger ones but the bars which used to rely on the mongers and "older guys" are finding life difficult now.

 

Also very noticeable is the change in demographics, not only with the cheap Chinese and Russians but the triple "T"s (totally tattooed tw@ts) and other bogans, and I even saw some Indian backpackers seeking out cheap accommodation in Nanai road!!

 

The Jewel of the Andaman has become more like the turd in the sea!

[DrDave]

19 hours ago, billythehat said:

... Concerning the sale of said Soi, I can’t see the value in trying to sell the bars (in terminal decline) as part of the package but rather the value of the plot as a whole, similar to what happened to the old Soi Gonzo...

Agreed. Anyone buying the contract for that soi with the intent of keeping the current configuration is going to find themselves in a negative cashflow situation from the get-go.

How many of those empty/closed bars are paying their rent each month?

As you say, the only hope for that soi seems to be a total re-development into something entirely different. But then, who's going to invest that kind of re-development money when they have only a 10 year lease?

[irishken]

Soi Eric at about 2AM in January 2008 or 2009 i think.

The party was only getting going at time. 

Great times for me.

Apologies if you are in the photo. 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by irishken

[xylophone]

29 minutes ago, irishken said:

Soi Eric at about 2AM in January 2008 or 2009 i think.

The party was only getting going at time. 

Great times for me.

Apologies if you are in the photo. 

 

Yep, the time when they had to put chairs in the middle of the soi to accommodate the crowds of punters flocking to it.........then after 2009 it was all downhill I'm afraid as they were great times, esp as I was helping out my mate at Euro Bar and was in the middle of the action!

[billythehat]

On 1/14/2019 at 6:52 PM, DrDave said:

Agreed. Anyone buying the contract for that soi with the intent of keeping the current configuration is going to find themselves in a negative cashflow situation from the get-go.

How many of those empty/closed bars are paying their rent each month?

As you say, the only hope for that soi seems to be a total re-development into something entirely different. But then, who's going to invest that kind of re-development money when they have only a 10 year lease?

"How many of those empty/closed bars are paying their rent each month? "

 According to the bar keep I spoke to, one has just walked and took the loss.

 

"As you say, the only hope for that soi seems to be a total re-development into something entirely different. But then, who's going to invest that kind of re-development money when they have only a 10 year lease?" 

No one of sound mind but this Lalaland and there’s always another mug on the next plane in. Dunno how it works there, but is the offer from the leaseholder flipping his investment or the freeholder re-selling the lease?

[NamKangMan]

On 1/14/2019 at 9:46 AM, billythehat said:

Aye, and I can think you can add poor levels of customer service to that list too. I know a couple of bar keeps in that Soi and both said that business had been desperate all year with the lack of the regulars plus the trouble they have getting the girls. Without the good customer service and girls, the fun has long disappeared and therefore little inducement for customer return. Chatting to a lad at one of the bars he asked why he was paying more for a small beer than he would at home (UK) just to look at a few porky lasses with tramp stamps; I could only smile and said “How long have you got, son!” The Patong party itself is pretty much over for those that had seen the halcyon days on the island. Prices, attitudes and demographic have radically changed the once affordable paradise in a relatively short time and this year I left with (unusually) no sorrow for not staying any longer. The Thais have made their own bed here but I do have a certain sadness for those guys that have put their hearts, souls and squillions of Baht into businesses there and soon will likely to be sitting on a pile of negative equity and misery. A few have done well, like Pik who’s built a property portfolio to rival any Thai hi-so (and consequently doesn’t give a rat’s bottom), but many who got in late are not living the dream. I mentioned before about the desperate business I noted whilst wobbling around the town, observed from just one year of absence, this desperation not acknowledged by the Ruskies and the Chinese as they’ve never known the island in former times – not that they care anyway! Yes, the young farang bucks who like the techno clubs are catered for, but for me and I suspect many others, that is not their scene. The one thing constant is change and Phuket is what it now is. Concerning the sale of said Soi, I can’t see the value in trying to sell the bars (in terminal decline) as part of the package but rather the value of the plot as a whole, similar to what happened to the old Soi Gonzo. On the other hand, keep the bars and see how long they can flog a dead horse/buffalo. Having travelled all over Lalaland since 2001 I can say that Phuket has definitely become the most expensive holiday destination out of all the popular locations, in-hand with offering the least value for your buck. This has of course been compounded by the continued devaluation of major currencies over the last 10-15 years but still doesn’t really explain why the service levels should decrease in the same manner.

 

"Phuket has definitely become the most expensive holiday destination out of all the popular locations, in-hand with offering the least value for your buck." - I agree. 

 

For the climate, the beaches, the activities, the variety of hospitality establishments, the well connected airport etc, Phuket should be the destination of choice for a wide variety of tourists, from low budget to high end. 

 

It's not that Phuket prices are now out of reach for so many, with only the wealthy able to afford a holiday here, it is as you say, just not a value for money holiday, no matter what your budget. 

 

The tourists have finally had enough of having to keep opening their wallet for every "cog" in the big tourist machine here. 

 

 

[NamKangMan]

On 1/14/2019 at 3:42 PM, xylophone said:

Lots of good points BTH and I suppose the "Patong party" will continue for the younger ones but the bars which used to rely on the mongers and "older guys" are finding life difficult now.

 

Also very noticeable is the change in demographics, not only with the cheap Chinese and Russians but the triple "T"s (totally tattooed tw@ts) and other bogans, and I even saw some Indian backpackers seeking out cheap accommodation in Nanai road!!

 

The Jewel of the Andaman has become more like the turd in the sea!

 

"The Jewel of the Andaman has become more like the turd in the sea!" - yes, which is unfortunate, because Phuket had so much potential to cater for everyone from backpackers to high end tourists.

 

The problem is, Phuket has now placed itself in a position where it is too expensive for independent low budget tourists, and not of a high enough standard for high end tourists.  That leaves the middle class, and they are more inclined to seek a better value holiday than what Phuket can offer, particularly when it comes to infrastructure.  

 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Phuket becomes the Costa del Sol of Thailand, and basically ends up like the Nokia phone company. 

 

Nokia - a company that rested on its reputation and big market share, that ultimately went broke. 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"The Jewel of the Andaman has become more like the turd in the sea!" - yes, which is unfortunate, because Phuket had so much potential to cater for everyone from backpackers to high end tourists.

 

The problem is, Phuket has now placed itself in a position where it is too expensive for independent low budget tourists, and not of a high enough standard for high end tourists.  That leaves the middle class, and they are more inclined to seek a better value holiday than what Phuket can offer, particularly when it comes to infrastructure.  

 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Phuket becomes the Costa del Sol of Thailand, and basically ends up like the Nokia phone company. 

 

Nokia - a company that rested on its reputation and big market share, that ultimately went broke. 

Lots of comments about Patong being expensive, however I don't entirely agree with that because many of the tourists here would be comparing what they pay in Patong to what they would pay back in their home countries, and from everything that I've seen/experienced here they would find it cheaper by some margin.

 

I posted this on another thread and it tries to address that aspect.............

 

Good point John and although I live in Patong I still believe that it is not expensive although I do compare the prices to those I would pay in my home country!! 
 
Here I can buy the ingredients for a Pad Thai for under $5, chicken is as cheap as, and a meal in an everyday Thai restaurant can be had for a little more, then eating in my regular Italian restaurant I can get a main course for $11.00............and so on.
 
I rent an apartment for 1/3rd the cost of one room in NZ, and I could go on, but for me the only thing I find expensive here is my "extravagances" such as wine, smoked salmon and some cheeses.
 
And on transport; well I consider the 800 baht taxi to the airport to be good value.
 
Patong may be more expensive than other places in Thailand, but here for all its faults, there is plenty to do, good shopping and restaurants.........all you have to do is to hope you don't become a traffic accident statistic!

 

PS. Or get sucked in by the promises of a wayward bar girl!!
 

[NamKangMan]

20 hours ago, xylophone said:

Lots of comments about Patong being expensive, however I don't entirely agree with that because many of the tourists here would be comparing what they pay in Patong to what they would pay back in their home countries, and from everything that I've seen/experienced here they would find it cheaper by some margin.

 

I posted this on another thread and it tries to address that aspect.............

 

Good point John and although I live in Patong I still believe that it is not expensive although I do compare the prices to those I would pay in my home country!! 
 
Here I can buy the ingredients for a Pad Thai for under $5, chicken is as cheap as, and a meal in an everyday Thai restaurant can be had for a little more, then eating in my regular Italian restaurant I can get a main course for $11.00............and so on.
 
I rent an apartment for 1/3rd the cost of one room in NZ, and I could go on, but for me the only thing I find expensive here is my "extravagances" such as wine, smoked salmon and some cheeses.
 
And on transport; well I consider the 800 baht taxi to the airport to be good value.
 
Patong may be more expensive than other places in Thailand, but here for all its faults, there is plenty to do, good shopping and restaurants.........all you have to do is to hope you don't become a traffic accident statistic!

 

PS. Or get sucked in by the promises of a wayward bar girl!!
 

 

As an expat here, like yourself, we know what we should be paying, and we have our work arounds, thus, we escape the trap prices.  The majority of tourists do not have this luxury.

 

"from everything that I've seen/experienced here they would find it cheaper by some margin." - I agree, BUT, would they "find it cheaper by some margin" compared to other tourist destinations in Thailand? 

 

Then, would they find Thailand "cheaper by some margin" compared to neighboring countries in South East Asia? 

 

I asked the question on another thread.  Is it possible it's not about the higher prices on Phuket.  Maybe Phuket no longer offers a pleasant holiday, regardless of the cost. 

 

Western tourists, of all financial capacities, are no longer coming to Phuket in the numbers they used to.  The whole western tourist market to Phuket can not all be suffering financial stress. 

[Lashay]

58 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

. 

 

Western tourists, of all financial capacities, are no longer coming to Phuket in the numbers they used to.  

Phuket Airport arrivals data says this is not the case, western tourist numbers have generally maintained a small but steady increase over last decade. 

 

From what i have seen what is changing is who is coming (age, gender, nationality, social and economic status, short version more backpackers and familys) and how long staying (multi destination holidays have become lot more common) and where staying (lot more spread out on the Island).

 

And on other side there is a lot more competition on the buisness side. In nearly everything supply has outpaced demand, to point prices for hotels, food and drink have either bearly moved in a decade or actually gone down. Which is opposite to what seems to be happening in places like BKK if the complaints i am hearing lately are anything to go by.

 

Really only noticed 4 things have really gone up higher than basic inflation here over last 10 years, taxis, lady drinks, bar fines and what girls charge (3 of those are related). Most other things have remained same or gone down.

 

Main thing that is making Phuket and Thailand as a whole 'expensive' these days is the exchange rates, in some cases 40-60% more expensive in a decade.  £1000 per week tourist in '09 would be spending 56,000 thb, now they are only spending 40,000thb. 1000eur p/w,  change is 50000thb to 36000thb.

 

We dont hear the old '2 week millionaire' expression much anymore for good reason.

[NamKangMan]

7 minutes ago, Lashay said:

Phuket Airport arrivals data says this is not the case, western tourist numbers have generally maintained a small but steady increase over last decade. 

 

From what i have seen what is changing is who is coming (age, gender, nationality, social and economic status, short version more backpackers and familys) and how long staying (multi destination holidays have become lot more common) and where staying (lot more spread out on the Island).

 

And on other side there is a lot more competition on the buisness side. In nearly everything supply has outpaced demand, to point prices for hotels, food and drink have either bearly moved in a decade or actually gone down. Which is opposite to what seems to be happening in places like BKK if the complaints i am hearing lately are anything to go by.

 

Really only noticed 4 things have really gone up higher than basic inflation here over last 10 years, taxis, lady drinks, bar fines and what girls charge (3 of those are related). Most other things have remained same or gone down.

 

Main thing that is making Phuket and Thailand as a whole 'expensive' these days is the exchange rates, in some cases 40-60% more expensive in a decade.  £1000 per week tourist in '09 would be spending 56,000 thb, now they are only spending 40,000thb. 1000eur p/w,  change is 50000thb to 36000thb.

 

We dont hear the old '2 week millionaire' expression much anymore for good reason.

 

The majority of tourists to Phuket now are cheap Chines package holiday makers.  This has been reported in the local media, and is not my opinion.  I don't remember this being the case a few years ago.

 

Are you saying they now compliment the western tourist market?  If so, that is debatable.  I would say they have basically replaced the western tourist market.

 

I know The TAT publish figures to show western tourists are stable, or have increased, but I just don't see them in the numbers like I used to, am I am in Patong. 

 

Another thing to consider with those stats is Phuket Airport is well connected.  There is a percentage of tourists that pass immigration on Phuket, but never spend a night here.  I suspect this percentage has increased quiet a lot in recent times.

[Psimbo]

3 hours ago, Lashay said:

Phuket Airport arrivals data says this is not the case, western tourist numbers have generally maintained a small but steady increase over last decade. 

 

From what i have seen what is changing is who is coming (age, gender, nationality, social and economic status, short version more backpackers and familys) and how long staying (multi destination holidays have become lot more common) and where staying (lot more spread out on the Island).

 

And on other side there is a lot more competition on the buisness side. In nearly everything supply has outpaced demand, to point prices for hotels, food and drink have either bearly moved in a decade or actually gone down. Which is opposite to what seems to be happening in places like BKK if the complaints i am hearing lately are anything to go by.

 

Really only noticed 4 things have really gone up higher than basic inflation here over last 10 years, taxis, lady drinks, bar fines and what girls charge (3 of those are related). Most other things have remained same or gone down.

 

Main thing that is making Phuket and Thailand as a whole 'expensive' these days is the exchange rates, in some cases 40-60% more expensive in a decade.  £1000 per week tourist in '09 would be spending 56,000 thb, now they are only spending 40,000thb. 1000eur p/w,  change is 50000thb to 36000thb.

 

We dont hear the old '2 week millionaire' expression much anymore for good reason.

TAT is British slang for 'crap' and with reason. They skew their stats on a regular basis to the point that they are farcical.

 

Taking on other people's points about the girls. With the advent of Thaifriendly and Tinder the girls are more savvy now and realise they don't have to sit around in a grotty beer bar all night to make some cash- this is part of the reason the bars are on their ersses. I know a girl that works off these sites and takes 2 clients a day, an afternooner and an early evening usually- she's made her cash and is happy. She can then get on with life for the rest of the night.

 

With the discos you have this crazy situation that freelancers don't even go out til about 0130 in the morning, part of the reason i have always advocated that the nightlife in Phuket needs to start earlier, not later,  and close earlier as it does in other parts of Thailand. people don't want to hang around that late to get laid.