Thailand to get tough on foreigners working without work permits, employers also targeted

[moogradod]

On 28.6.2017 at 2:19 AM, YetAnother said:

here we go again, now i will have to show a work permit for mowing my grass

My wife and me will be soon moving to Thailand - so far I have considered a Thai Elite Visa - but now the situation might have changed as I would like to be able to srew a shelf to the wall that I just bought in the supermarket or clean my own swimmingpool. And I would like to COOK - all by myself. So please may someone tell me for what kind of visa I should then apply ? "Self-employed" or may my Thai wife act as an employer then ?

[JAG]

Your riding past the cops without a helmet is not a good example.. it would be if the cop had stopped you and not commented on the helmet. 
 
Your right about not getting prosecuted not equaling no crime.. it does show that they have no interest going after digital nomads. They had some clear examples and people working in a co work space and they did nothing. Seems a lot that they don't mind digital nomads at all.
 
Now I would not risk it if I were a DM to flaunt it around but if you keep your head down nothing will come from it. Its too hard for the cops to prove too much work. Same can't be said for working in bars and so on.. as its easier to prove and your taking jobs away from Thais. DM don't do that.. so they follow the spirit of the law. I guess reason prevails sometimes.  

I think the key phrase here is " It's too hard for the cops to prove, too much work".
Easy to pinch a Burmese or Cambodian building site worker who someone has shopped (and no doubt sharing in the reward), but tracking down and investigating a "Digital Nomad" is probably much too much like hard work. Easier to put the sunglasses and surgical mask on and sit outside the factory gate at shifts end on payday...

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

I think the key phrase here is " It's too hard for the cops to prove, too much work".
Easy to pinch a Burmese or Cambodian building site worker who someone has shopped (and no doubt sharing in the reward), but tracking down and investigating a "Digital Nomad" is probably much too much like hard work. Easier to put the sunglasses and surgical mask on and sit outside the factory gate at shifts end on payday...

 

JAG your quite right... how to catch a DM... tapping away on a computer does not always means work.. could mean Thaivisa.. how to get access to the DM his bank account to see if he is getting money. Where are his files if he works (maybe stored in the cloud). So hard to prove especially if the language of the DM is not English.  Needing a warrant to get in his rented home or condo .. moment cops call computer is closed no proof of work. Nah too much work.. unless someone powerful is pissed off. 

 

So yes far easier to go after a Burmese where proof is easy. 

[Geoffroe]

19 hours ago, jspill said:

Sounds like JohnnyFD's blog and actually he makes tons of money dropshopping apparently..

He makes money selling the dropshipping dream with bullcrap more like.

 

JohnnyFD is an ex-pick up artist (and apparently an ex-con) who reinvented himself as a digital nomad, told tall tales and scammed idiots out of money with faked tales of success, just to get huge commission from sigining them up to his buddys course.

 

The largest nomad website/community, NomadList, even has warnings about him and the dropshipping scam for visitors to Chiang Mai pointing to the following links :

 

Here

 

&

 

Here

[Rc2702]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

JAG your quite right... how to catch a DM... tapping away on a computer does not always means work.. could mean Thaivisa.. how to get access to the DM his bank account to see if he is getting money. Where are his files if he works (maybe stored in the cloud). So hard to prove especially if the language of the DM is not English.  Needing a warrant to get in his rented home or condo .. moment cops call computer is closed no proof of work. Nah too much work.. unless someone powerful is pissed off. 

 

So yes far easier to go after a Burmese where proof is easy. 

What is this DM then? a Digital Meathead 

 

Damned your right if peeps cannot get that simple term right how the hell do you catch these meatheads err I mean nomads..

 

[roamer]

On 6/27/2017 at 11:29 AM, Dave67 said:

Surely 5 years in jail for not having a work permit is a bit harsh. I can't think of another country where that would be threatened

I can't think of another country where liking the "wrong" sort of facebook post can get you considerably longer.

[bodymassagemyfriend]

On 27/06/2017 at 0:47 PM, balo said:

We are not working in Thailand , we just live here as tourists. Pay taxes to home country etc. 

 

 

 

Its a grey zone and depends on the country. In many countries , if you stay more than 6 month, whatever you do ( or not ) you are considered as a resident.

Less than 6 month you can work while on holliday because for some businesses its impossible to completely disconnect.

[balo]

3 hours ago, bodymassagemyfriend said:

Less than 6 month you can work

Most nomads move around so that is not much of a problem .  If you decide to move for good and only use one address in Thailand it could get more complicated if someone try to report you.   It's a microscopic chance but it could happen .  

 

So not a good idea to call Thailand your home while working as a DN.  

 

 

[robblok]

7 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

What is this DM then? a Digital Meathead 

 

Damned your right if peeps cannot get that simple term right how the hell do you catch these meatheads err I mean nomads..

 

Yes that is me a digital meathead doing 2 things at the same time.. I should know better.

[LivinLOS]

14 hours ago, Geoffroe said:

He makes money selling the dropshipping dream with bullcrap more like.

 

JohnnyFD is an ex-pick up artist (and apparently an ex-con) who reinvented himself as a digital nomad, told tall tales and scammed idiots out of money with faked tales of success, just to get huge commission from sigining them up to his buddys course.

 

The largest nomad website/community, NomadList, even has warnings about him and the dropshipping scam for visitors to Chiang Mai pointing to the following links :

 

Here

 

&

 

Here

The comedy of this guy claiming to be making 30 40k USD a month.. And on Chiang mai for sale groups selling off things at 300b from a low rent tiny cheap condo.. 

 

Would have thought with a mil or mil and a half a month, 300b sales would consume too much time. 

[LivinLOS]

11 hours ago, bodymassagemyfriend said:

Its a grey zone and depends on the country. In many countries , if you stay more than 6 month, whatever you do ( or not ) you are considered as a resident.

Less than 6 month you can work while on holliday because for some businesses its impossible to completely disconnect.

and yet.. That ISNT the law.. 

 

Your confusing tax residency with right to work.. 

[eeyang wah]

Their stupidity knows no bounds.

 

This is a time when they should be REFORMING this whole work permit and visa nonsense, not making it even harder!

 

It's all very well saying "oh but if you're legal it's no problem" but this is simply not true. Let's say I want to to hire some foreign talent who is already working in Thailand. Here's what I have to do:

 

* send them out of the country for 1-2 weeks while we prepare the TT3 form

*mail them these documents (and pray that they get there)

*make them go to an embassy (twice)

*get them back to Thailand with a 90-day visa

*apply for the work permit

*apply for a visa extension

 

And all that is assuming every single document is in order according to the whims of the various d1ckhead officials on duty those days. 

 

What a complete mess. And Thailand is trying to attract foreign investors? Hahahahahaha!

 

Come on Little P,  sort your act out. 

[jspill]

On 02/07/2017 at 5:20 PM, LivinLOS said:

The point you seem to miss is they were charged with a crime.. A crime many are claiming isnt illegal. 

 

How can something be legal, when there were charges " for working without the correct visa and work permits " 

Already answered by others but they were producing and distributing porn in Thailand, that work has a physical connection to Thailand. For all we know it was sold to Thai customers in physical form, the article doesn't say. Not necessarily online work, they just had a website as well.

 

Then it says 'working without permits' not 'working online without permits'. Then it's just one line in a newspaper. Like you say only the DOL can decide this, not police or newspapers, you dismiss the Asian Correspondent newspaper article about working online being allowed, and statements by immigration, so why quote this as a source if this isn't the DOL either.

 

All you've ever given as a 'source' on thaivisa in years is this one line in a newspaper, and then a couple soundbites from DOL employees from 2010 and 2014. Not written on the DOL website or any kind of official document, just again in a newspaper (Phuket gazette) question and answer section. Which could've been written by anyone, the question may have been misunderstood, etc.

 

Clutching at straws. Clicking like on comments about collecting a bounty for reporting illegal workers, asking for forum posters' private information to report them, obsessing over whether one digital nomad JohnnyFD has money or not... all a bit sad isn't it.

[LivinLOS]

Its really simple.. Any nomad that claims they are right and its legal.. Provide proof of your work, your earnings, and that it was done in Thailand.. And let me report you to the labour department. 

 

Very easy way to prove your argument isnt it ?? 

 

That is unless, of course, you dont really believe it !! 

[balo]

Its really simple.. Any nomad that claims they are right and its legal.. Provide proof of your work, your earnings, and that it was done in Thailand.. And let me report you to the labour department. 
 
Very easy way to prove your argument isnt it ?? 
 
That is unless, of course, you dont really believe it !! 

That's were we disagree , the work was not done inside Thailand, its in a cloud somewhere in cyberspace and it's received in my home country. The work got nothing to do with Thailand. Involving the Thai labour dep. will only lead to confusion.

[Basil B]

Going to be costly if you are self-employed...

 

[LannaGuy]

45 minutes ago, balo said:

 

That's were we disagree , the work was not done inside Thailand, its in a cloud somewhere in cyberspace and it's received in my home country. The work got nothing to do with Thailand. Involving the Thai labour dep. will only lead to confusion.
 

 

Nah the work was done IN Thailand and the produce maybe in 'cyberspace' but it doesn't change anything but denial can be a 'comforting thing'  

[YetAnother]

just cut to the chase and deport all the expats; welcome to the new 4th world country

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, recycler said:

My wife was told yesterday by a police man at a roadblock in Chaiyaphum that I was not allowed to drive at all in Thailand due to a recent new law. My wife was driving at the time, so no fine, but it could have been 40,000 Baht according to the police man advising my wife not to let me drive. Not bad for me at the start of a 500 km trip back home ;-)

 

Could this have anything to do with the getting tough?

If the policeman was in fact correct and this becomes the norm i see little sense in hiring or buying a vehicle.

 

People have been informed in Udon Thani that farang driving outside their province without getting prior permission could be fined and banned from driving.

 

This is bad news indeed.

[ukrules]

54 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

If the policeman was in fact correct and this becomes the norm i see little sense in hiring or buying a vehicle.

 

People have been informed in Udon Thani that farang driving outside their province without getting prior permission could be fined and banned from driving.

 

This is bad news indeed.

 

Do you have any links on this ? Sounds very strange to me, if you have a driving license you can drive, simple as that.

 

The only restriction on driving outside a province is for new cars with the red plates and this applies to everyone.

[bannork]

58 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

If the policeman was in fact correct and this becomes the norm i see little sense in hiring or buying a vehicle.

 

People have been informed in Udon Thani that farang driving outside their province without getting prior permission could be fined and banned from driving.

 

This is bad news indeed.

Come on gentlemen! You're extracting the urine.

[owl sees all]

10 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Do you have any links on this ? Sounds very strange to me, if you have a driving license you can drive, simple as that.

There is a group of farang that meet one Sunday a month in Udon. They had a visit from the Authorities and were informed as such.

[bannork]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

There is a group of farang that meet one Sunday a month in Udon. They had a visit from the Authorities and were informed as such.

Do they go on motorbike tours?

[owl sees all]

Just now, bannork said:

Do they go on motorbike tours?

Sorry Bannork; I don't know. A couple of them have big bikes I think.

[bannork]

Just now, owl sees all said:

Sorry Bannork; I don't know. A couple of them have big bikes I think.

That's it I guess. The cops are just talking about motorbike 'rallies'

[robblok]

That's it I guess. The cops are just talking about motorbike 'rallies'

Why would you not be allowed to drive outside your province on a motorbike ?

[owl sees all]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

That's it I guess. The cops are just talking about motorbike 'rallies'

Maybe! I can't get more info until tomorrow. I know a chap that goes to the meetings and I'll try to glean some more info.

 

Just a side issue; I bumped (not literally) into about 20 or so bikers in Penn once. They had stopped at Tescos (farang and Thais). There was a subtle police presence. When the group pulled away the police were on their radios before they themselves moved on in the same direction.

[bannork]

Just now, robblok said:

Why would you not be allowed to drive outside your province on a motorbike ?

Cross country rallies with a large group of vehicles together may have an effect on the environment. The cops may just be 'laying down the law.' according to their interpretation.

[jspill]

5 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Nah the work was done IN Thailand and the produce maybe in 'cyberspace' but it doesn't change anything but denial can be a 'comforting thing'  

And it's comforting to imagine one day those pesky young 'uns will all be arrested and deported and suddenly all the chicks will be yours for the taking but it doesn't look it's happening.

[jspill]

15 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Its really simple.. Any nomad that claims they are right and its legal.. Provide proof of your work, your earnings, and that it was done in Thailand.. And let me report you to the labour department. 

 

Very easy way to prove your argument isnt it ?? 

 

That is unless, of course, you dont really believe it !! 

Well you come off as deranged the way you post and like comments about reporting 'illegal workers' (what do you have against Burmese construction workers etc.) so that would be biased.

 

Better would be for me to send the info to a moderator, have him notify the DOL then the results can be put in a thread. Only problem is the DOL won't care or reply, and no one here cares that much either except you and a few barflys.