Thai police spokesman says Belgian tourist died from suffocation

[AGareth2]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

She wasn't found hanged the same night. She died days later on the other side of the island.

then what happened in the intervening days/hours?

[johnarth]

Thai police are losing face big time, the whole world knows they do not know how to investigate a murder. 

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

It is true that the police have a poor record here concerning honesty and investigative skills but giving a dog a bad name doesn't mean that everything they say is wrong. I believe that the fire started in her hut/room, is it not possible that she panicked thinking of the consequences, Thai prison, restitution etc.? perhaps she ran away and in a momentary fit of fear hung herself.

Elise bought another ticket after the fire

[NextStationBangkok]

Finally truth slowly coming out.....

[soalbundy]

38 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Elise bought another ticket after the fire

It is being reported (Daily Mirror, so it might not be true) that she used a fake name several days before her death,why? 

[AGareth2]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

It is being reported (Daily Mirror, so it might not be true) that she used a fake name several days before her death,why? 

obfuscation

[dlodratsab]

On 7/3/2017 at 6:11 PM, rockingrobin said:

From the article " tried to commit suicide "

A different report states that Elise was disorientated and confused suffering from dehydration

Is it not a usual thing ,for a suicidal victim to leave a note? I thought it was a large %age.

Yet have never seen one in evidence  in any of the Kho Tao cases?

[ThaiWai]

11 hours ago, Lamar said:

Yes, right! - even if not the most "classical" or easy way...

But the force exerted by gravity in the case of a suicide may be indistinguishable from the force exerted manually in the case of a murder (by pulling the victim by her feet); a force is a vectorial quantity, whatever its cause, when it is exercised with the same intensity and in the same direction.

Hanging from a low height is the jailhouse method.  Seen it a dozen times personally.  After that you lost me due to a run on sentence with overuse of random punctuation and fancy words intended to dazzle the reader.  However, I am gonna go out on a limb and say no one has ever been strangled by "pulling the victim by her feet".  

[docshock13]

3 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

then what happened in the intervening days/hours?

That is what a proper investigation should seek to find out. 

[ThaiWai]

On 7/4/2017 at 11:30 AM, dlodratsab said:

Is it not a usual thing ,for a suicidal victim to leave a note? I thought it was a large %age.

Yet have never seen one in evidence  in any of the Kho Tao cases?

There are no usual suicides.  I saw a woman who stabbed herself in the heart once.  Be assured than was UNusual.  Oh, she didn't leave a note either.

[ThaiWai]

12 hours ago, bannork said:

darksidedog-  the words of W.H.Auden may be relevant here: 

Musee des Beaux Arts

W. H. Auden

About suffering they were never wrong,
The old Masters: how well they understood
Its human position: how it takes place
While someone else is eating or opening a window or just walking dully along;
How, when the aged are reverently, passionately waiting
For the miraculous birth, there always must be
Children who did not specially want it to happen, skating
On a pond at the edge of the wood:
They never forgot
That even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course
Anyhow in a corner, some untidy spot
Where the dogs go on with their doggy life and the torturer's horse
Scratches its innocent behind on a tree.

 

In Breughel's Icarus, for instance: how everything turns away
Quite leisurely from the disaster; the ploughman may
Have heard the splash, the forsaken cry,
But for him it was not an important failure; the sun shone
As it had to on the white legs disappearing into the green
Water, and the expensive delicate ship that must have seen
Something amazing, a boy falling out of the sky,
Had somewhere to get to and sailed calmly on.

 

 

 

Lemme guess...17 orders of Pad Thai "NOT SPICY" coming up.

[Lamar]

59 minutes ago, ThaiWai said:

Hanging from a low height is the jailhouse method.  Seen it a dozen times personally.  After that you lost me due to a run on sentence with overuse of random punctuation and fancy words intended to dazzle the reader.  However, I am gonna go out on a limb and say no one has ever been strangled by "pulling the victim by her feet".  

Suicide (by hangigng at low level): the person has a knot flowing around the neck; It lets the gravitation act, a force is exerted on the rope, the noose tightens. In the case of a murder disguised as suicide: the victim does not give in to the effect of gravity; The killer(s) then exerts a force (pulling the victim down or pushing her by the shoulders), a force is exerted on the rope, the noose tightens. The result is the same. A force is a force whatever the nature of it cause. Only 2 parameters define a force: the intensity and the direction (not the nature of the cause). I do not defend the theory of murder against that of suicide, I just point out that a death by hanging is not systematically a suicide.

(Sorry, English is not my mother tongue.)

Edited July 4, 2017 by Lamar

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, darksidedog said:

If this had been an incident overseas and the statement was coming from the UK police I would tend to believe it. Coming as it does from the Thai police, who have difficulty distinguishing their ass from their elbow, AND it happened on Koh Tao, I am deeply suspicious. Suicide was the first thing they came out with, before they knew any background information whatsoever, and I fully expect them to stick with that, regardless of what any actual evidence might throw up. Can't go giving Thailand a bad name for the tourists now can we?

Yes the UK police are completely truthful.... remember Hillsborough.

 

The act of a quick cremation is suspicious though.

[elgenon]

The head of forensics in BKK is a hip looking lady. Get her over there.

[Lamar]

15 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Died of suffocation? A non-judicial hanging either self inflicted or not will do just that.  Judicial hangings are meant to cause C2/C3 fracture dislocation as well as suffocation.  Strangulation murderers sometimes try to fake a suicide hanging to cover their crime. The marks of bruising from the various forms of suffocation and strangulation  or lack if them hould tell an experienced pathologist whether they were inflicted by the hanging or another means such as manual strangulation, or even if they occurred before the hanging.  

OK, we understand that an autopsy will show that a victim was strangled and then hanged to simulate suicide. But if the victim has been subdued without being able to defend herself (for example because she was taken by surprise, or under the threat of a weapon, or was in an alcoholic intoxication state ... ) so that there is no trace of struggle, and then that the assailants pass a rope round the neck of the victim and hang her to a tree, the result will be the same as for a suicide. By the way, let's remind that the mother of the victim complained in the press that she had never received an autopsy report despite her repeated requests. She also alleged that the body of the victim was not photographed by the police at the place of her death as is customary.

[DiscoDan]

3 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

obfuscation

There is a picture of the book on one of the bangkok post articles 

[Chrisdoc123]

It is sad when people suicide but most of the people who post here are from Western countries where the press don't report suicide. In Thailand it goes straight in the paper so gives us the idea that it happens abnormally regularly. I had a friend who was a suicide investigator for an Australian state railway and he said he was kept really busy.

Sent from my SM-J120G using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DiscoDan]

On 7/4/2017 at 11:30 AM, dlodratsab said:

Is it not a usual thing ,for a suicidal victim to leave a note? I thought it was a large %age.

Yet have never seen one in evidence  in any of the Kho Tao cases?

The French guy who was found hanged left a note non of the others apart from Elise were claimed to be suicide.

[Dipterocarp]

The Army should set up a sting operation. Recruit a female operator from one of the western special forces or elite counter-terror units to use as bait. (Believe me there ARE some pretty blond agents who could terminate any number of these peckerwoods easily).  An expert at self defense, evasion and killing, with guns, knives, her bare hands. 

 

Set her up with a partner with similar specialized skills and abilities, followed closely by a support team. Have them play the young couple abroad, hit the bars and have the boyfriend mouth off to the locals. The killer(s) would soon emerge. Catch them in the act.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Dipterocarp

[roo860]

The Army should set up a sting operation. Recruit a female operator from one of the western special forces or elite counter-terror units to use as bait. (Believe me there ARE some pretty blond agents who could terminate any number of these peckerwoods easily . An expert at self defense evasion and killing, with guns, knives, her bare hands. 
 
Set her up with a partner with similar specialized skills and abilities, followed closely by a support team. Have them play the young couple abroad, hit the bars and have the boyfriend mouth off to the locals. The killer/s would soon emerge. Catch them in the act.

[emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[The Deerhunter]

40 minutes ago, Lamar said:

OK, we understand that an autopsy will show that a victim was strangled and then hanged to simulate suicide. But if the victim has been subdued without being able to defend herself (for example because she was taken by surprise, or under the threat of a weapon, or was in an alcoholic intoxication state ... ) so that there is no trace of struggle, and then that the assailants pass a rope round the neck of the victim and hang her to a tree, the result will be the same as for a suicide. By the way, let's remind that the mother of the victim complained in the press that she had never received an autopsy report despite her repeated requests. She also alleged that the body of the victim was not photographed by the police at the place of her death as is customary.

Yes to all your points.  Please note I did say "or absence of bruises."

[Krenjai]

RTP will soon come to the following conclusion, PR for immediate release...

 

We conclude, after carefully studying all the evidence, that no Thai could have done this. In fact all these deaths is the fault of the tourist who party on our beautiful island as if there is no tomorrow, tourist who run around half naked in bathing suits and who take drugs & large buckets of alcohol. Shame on them, these thrill-seekers. There are no suspicious deaths on Koh Tao and this latest case is just a suicide. 

 

Although we did inform the embassy and the family, the reason why we initially held back on information is mainly driven by the fact we wish to protect our beautiful and safe paradise. There have been enough conspiracy theorists dropping dirt on several online forums. We, the people in the know,  strongly condemn this, so we wish to reiterate: no Thai could have done this, it was suicide. 

 

Case closed.

 

 

 

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, Krenjai said:

RTP will soon come to the following conclusion, PR for immediate release...

 

We conclude, after carefully studying all the evidence, that no Thai could have done this. In fact all these deaths is the fault of the tourist who party on our beautiful island as if there is no tomorrow, tourist who run around half naked in bathing suits and who take drugs & large buckets of alcohol. Shame on them, these thrill-seekers. There are no suspicious deaths on Koh Tao and this latest case is just a suicide. 

<snip>

Go to 33:14 here and the Mayor of Koh Tao said almost exactly that (Warning: spooky music)

[greenchair]

I see another dead body has turned up on Koh Samui. 

I have to go to a nz paper to get news now. 

 

[gemguy]

This will never be solved or resolved...that we know for sure while there will be frustration and grief for a long time to come for the family.

RIP

Meantime this is another warning that people , everyone, has to be on guard all the time if they travel to Koh Tao. 

Just better to stay away from the place but if you do go then you must be accompanied at all times and look out for one another ...and be careful of your fellow travelers also. 

In cases such as this other foreigners are also suspect as you just never know who you will meet while traveling.

 

Does anyone remember the Charles Sobhraj serial murder case??

 

Cheers

[bannork]

3 hours ago, Dipterocarp said:

The Army should set up a sting operation. Recruit a female operator from one of the western special forces or elite counter-terror units to use as bait. (Believe me there ARE some pretty blond agents who could terminate any number of these peckerwoods easily).  An expert at self defense, evasion and killing, with guns, knives, her bare hands. 

 

Set her up with a partner with similar specialized skills and abilities, followed closely by a support team. Have them play the young couple abroad, hit the bars and have the boyfriend mouth off to the locals. The killer(s) would soon emerge. Catch them in the act.

100,000 people visit Koh Tao annually. The numbers who come to an untimely end either through too many drugs, booze. bravado, suicide or murder are less than a dozen over the last 4 years. That's 12 out of 400,000. Your chances of meeting an early demise on Koh Tao are 0.003%. and if you don't party to excess the odds are far lower again.

 You've far more chance of getting run over in Bangkok and the diving in Saen Saep canal or the Chao Phraya  river certainly doesn't match that on Koh Tao.

[Laab Muu]

4 hours ago, Dipterocarp said:

The Army should set up a sting operation. Recruit a female operator from one of the western special forces or elite counter-terror units to use as bait. (Believe me there ARE some pretty blond agents who could terminate any number of these peckerwoods easily).  An expert at self defense, evasion and killing, with guns, knives, her bare hands. 

 

Set her up with a partner with similar specialized skills and abilities, followed closely by a support team. Have them play the young couple abroad, hit the bars and have the boyfriend mouth off to the locals. The killer(s) would soon emerge. Catch them in the act.

The best post yet. Thai Visa special forces are on to it, with back up from Thai Visa investigators and pathologists. Bunch of numpties. ???

[sambum]

5 hours ago, Chrisdoc123 said:

It is sad when people suicide but most of the people who post here are from Western countries where the press don't report suicide. In Thailand it goes straight in the paper so gives us the idea that it happens abnormally regularly. I had a friend who was a suicide investigator for an Australian state railway and he said he was kept really busy.

Sent from my SM-J120G using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

  Oh, yeah?

According to the Public Health Ministry of Thailand, 4,000 Thai people commit suicide each year.

Broken hearts and family-related issues were the top reasons for Thais to commit suicide, with a monthly average of 300 per month or 4,000 cases every year. That figure makes it the country with the third-most suicides in the world, according to Public Health Ministry spokesman and psychiatrist Dr Yongyuth Wongpiromsan.

 

 

[Lamar]

18 hours ago, Emster23 said:

And who decided to cremate her? No consideration that she may be a Muslim or a Catholic, where cremation is not acceptable. Rush to cremation of body stinks of coverup.

Several members of this forum regularly report that the young woman was cremated in haste and without family agreement; This is absolutely not what the family (mother, brother and aunt) said to the press, what the contrary! 

 

The mother stated that she had not received the autopsy report, which she had claimed several times; On the other hand, the fact that the body had been incinerated was mentioned in the press; The mother also complained that apparently no photographs had been taken by the police of the body at the place of death.

 

As neither the Police nor the Justice Thaie had warned the press, and the mother did not believe in the suicide thesis given by the police, she took the initiative to contact the local press ("Samui Times "and" Der Farang ") and posting on social networks (especially on the Facebook page of the sect) to ask for help in researching what really happened to her daughter.

 

On the basis of these elements, some TV members have conclued that the police would have cremated the body hastily and without the family, or even that there would not be any autopsy! But this is completely wrong!

 

- An autopsy was  performed in Surat Thani Hospital and later by the Institute of Forensic Medicine Police Hospital, Bangkok. (Contact person was Colonel Phawat Pratheepvisaroot sein). (Samui Times, July 04)

 

- The body was identified from radios of her teeth, sent by the mother in Thailand. (Samui Times, Jul 04 + La Meuse* , June 29)

 

- The mother and father of Elise Dallemagne attended the cremation of their daughter, which took place in Bangkok on May 11th (14 days after her remains were found). They returned to Belgium with the ashes of the deceased. (Samui Times, Jul 04 + La Meuse*, June 29) 

 

- A mass was held on May 22 at the Saint-Etienne church in Rixensart (near Brussels). (La Meuse*, June 29) 

 

(*) The Meuse is a well-known French-speaking Belgian daily newspaper, which contacted Elise's aunt in the absence of her parents (I presume already left on the spot in Thailand).

[chrisinth]

On 7/3/2017 at 5:50 PM, z42 said:

These cretins are fooling nobody. I'd be impressed if there was some real efforts made in the first instance but it appears that cremating the body asap was task number 1.

The notion of face trumps any actual search for truth here.. Their fit up of the B2 will always be the yardstick, that was a huge story and the fallout was manageable.

Feel sorry for her relatives. They'll be getting no truthful answers anytime soon

Quote from the OP:

 

"Pol Col Krissana Patanacharoen, deputy spokesman of the Royal Thai Police, said police investors have questioned more than 10 witnesses and have completed the forensic examination of the  30-year-old Belgian tourist Ms Elise Dallemagne."

 

Now, if investigators have just completed their forensic examination, and the body has already been cremated, how have they determined death was from suffocation? How did they do that?

 

One of those stories has to be wrong.