How to wai - a guide to the Thai greeting

[MartinL]

2 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

3 traffic police members came to give the kids a talk at school today. One of them made an effort of coming directly up to me (before any other teacher), saluted me and then shook my hand. When he left he said have a nice day and I shook his hand again and patted him on the shoulder. I didn't wai any of the three and they didn't wai me. Shock horror, nothing bad happened! I didn't feel awkward, and he obviously didn't to go out of his way to say good-bye to me. Just do what feels natural/comfortable in your environment so you can live a happy and stress free life. 

I watched a military graduation/awards presentation on the telly - news or the daily Royal Events programme, I think - some time ago in which the graduates received their awards from a very senior officer.

 

Each graduate saluted their senior officer and had their salute returned and then they shook hands. Not a Wai to be seen.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, luk AJ said:

Again, returning a way will never make you look like an idiot. Of course children is a different matter, normally you never wai to children unless it is part of a play..


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Many years ago on a holiday (staying with a Western relative who had lived here a few years), a Big C or Tesco Lotus cashier 'waied' me as I was leaving the checkout.  I returned the wai, and the cashier was definitely taken aback.  Her look combined confusion/amusement/embarrassment - which left me confused !

 

Fortunately my relative was there and later explained why returning the wai confused her, and made me look like an amiable idiot.

 

Having now lived here a few years, its far easier to bow my head in response to a wai.  The only exceptions are when someone has helped me out or have been particularly nice in some way (particularly if they are elderly) - in which case I'll give a 'high' wai to express my gratitude.

[luk AJ]

Many years ago on a holiday (staying with a Western relative who had lived here a few years), a Big C or Tesco Lotus cashier 'waied' me as I was leaving the checkout.  I returned the wai, and the cashier was definitely taken aback.  Her look combined confusion/amusement/embarrassment - which left me confused !

 

Fortunately my relative was there and later explained why returning the wai confused her, and made me look like an amiable idiot.

 

Having now lived here a few years, its far easier to bow my head in response to a wai.  The only exceptions are when someone has helped me out or have been particularly nice in some way (particularly if they are elderly) - in which case I'll give a 'high' wai to express my gratitude.

Maybe her confusion had nothing to do with your wai?

 

 

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[timkeen08]

I watched a military graduation/awards presentation on the telly - news or the daily Royal Events programme, I think - some time ago in which the graduates received their awards from a very senior officer.
 
Each graduate saluted their senior officer and had their salute returned and then they shook hands. Not a Wai to be seen.

Military salutes are required by military personnel in most countries except noncom to noncom as far as I know. Why would they wai?

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[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, MartinL said:

I watched a military graduation/awards presentation on the telly - news or the daily Royal Events programme, I think - some time ago in which the graduates received their awards from a very senior officer.

 

Each graduate saluted their senior officer and had their salute returned and then they shook hands. Not a Wai to be seen.

Wouldn't surprise me. Every time I drive into/out of an Army hospital they salute you. I am normally eating an ice cream i had just got from a 7/11 so I generally salute my Cornetto back to them haha.

The other teachers gave a wai to the officers this morning. Just goes to show the expectation from that individual police member though. He didn't go to shake the Thai teachers hands after saluting them, which just proves not many Thai are really expecting a farang to do it...

Edited July 5, 2017 by wildewillie89

[richard_smith237]

19 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Returning a wai is polite. Thai people frequently return a wai to service staff. At least polite ones do. Some snobbish hi-so Thais might think they're superior. It would be nice to think that kind of superior attitude is in decline. Farangs should know better!

 

This is the way I see it too. I see my Wife's family behaving politely, the return the Wai of staff in restaurants etc, I think it shows they are polite and they are... FiL is not short of ego, he's well connected but continues to Wai those who Wai him. 

 

I don't understand what is so difficult for some about attempting to be polite.. Or is it that they are so unobservant that they fail to pick up on a few simple nuances and fear they will look like they are 'trying too hard'.... Its really quite simple, If someone gives you a Wai, return it, it is the polite thing to do, unless you have your hands full, in which case a nod is also fine. 

 

However, the Nod of the head has become the lazy acceptance of someone who believes they are superior. Its rather arrogant, I see scores of people who behave like this, but it is usually foreigners and Thai's with an elevated sense of self. 

 

When it comes to Wai'ing Children and Kids, returning a Wai is harmless... no one thinks you are an idiot for returning the Wai of a child, again its the polite thing to do and encourages the child to continue to behave politely. 

 

 

The question really boils down to 'when to wai first'.... there are a few simple and easy rules to follow, such elders, youngers, when entering a room etc. Again the issues may arise for people who are not quite sure where they fit in the pecking order, in which case a Wai is harmless. Waiting to receive a wai is posturing, its ego... it has no real polite place. 

 

Its really quite simple - when in doubt, Wai....  as a foreigner simple and minor mistakes are widely accepted. IMO its much better to make an innocent and minor mistake when trying to be polite.

 

The Wai / Handshake combo also works well combining both cultures which I think is fair enough, but in groups the Wai is often easier than shaking everyones hand !

[richard_smith237]

On 7/4/2017 at 0:50 PM, Peterw42 said:

There are lots of instances when its not appropriate to return a wai, children wai adults not the other way round. A waiter at a restaurant will wai as you arrive, you dont wai the waiter back.

This is bar-stool talk and poor advice promoting poor manners. 

 

Of course Wai people back - Returning a Wai of those considered below your station is considered polite, while not returning the Wai of those considered below your station is also widely accepted, though less polite. IF you are not comfortable returning a Wai, at least acknowledge it with a nod of the head and a smile... 

 

There really is no faux-pas to be made when returning a Wai - whether to or not to is simply a measure of how superior you feel or how polite you naturally are (or wish to be seen). 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is the way I see it too. I see my Wife's family behaving politely, the return the Wai of staff in restaurants etc, I think it shows they are polite and they are... FiL is not short of ego, he's well connected but continues to Wai those who Wai him. 

 

I don't understand what is so difficult for some about attempting to be polite.. Or is it that they are so unobservant that they fail to pick up on a few simple nuances and fear they will look like they are 'trying too hard'.... Its really quite simple, If someone gives you a Wai, return it, it is the polite thing to do, unless you have your hands full, in which case a nod is also fine. 

 

However, the Nod of the head has become the lazy acceptance of someone who believes they are superior. Its rather arrogant, I see scores of people who behave like this, but it is usually foreigners and Thai's with an elevated sense of self. 

 

When it comes to Wai'ing Children and Kids, returning a Wai is harmless... no one thinks you are an idiot for returning the Wai of a child, again its the polite thing to do and encourages the child to continue to behave politely. 

 

 

The question really boils down to 'when to wai first'.... there are a few simple and easy rules to follow, such elders, youngers, when entering a room etc. Again the issues may arise for people who are not quite sure where they fit in the pecking order, in which case a Wai is harmless. Waiting to receive a wai is posturing, its ego... it has no real polite place. 

 

Its really quite simple - when in doubt, Wai....  as a foreigner simple and minor mistakes are widely accepted. IMO its much better to make an innocent and minor mistake when trying to be polite.

 

The Wai / Handshake combo also works well combining both cultures which I think is fair enough, but in groups the Wai is often easier than shaking everyones hand !

Always interesting to hear from a poster that has learned the intricacies of the wai....

 

Personally, I've never seen a Thai return the wai of supermarket cashier staff, but take your word for it that some do.

 

The 'bow' of the head indicates politeness from a foreigner that realises they do not know the intricacies of 'the wai', but are showing respect.  It is not "the lazy acceptance of someone who believes they are superior."....

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is bar-stool talk and poor advice promoting poor manners. 

 

Of course Wai people back - Returning a Wai of those considered below your station is considered polite, while not returning the Wai of those considered below your station is also widely accepted, though less polite. IF you are not comfortable returning a Wai, at least acknowledge it with a nod of the head and a smile... 

 

There really is no faux-pas to be made when returning a Wai - whether to or not to is simply a measure of how superior you feel or how polite you naturally are (or wish to be seen). 

 

 

I am always polite to service staff as I have often had a second job as a barman or waiter.

In the west a waiter or service staff often address you as sir/Mr etc, What can I get you sir, would you like another drink Mr smith etc.

I have never found myself in a situation, as a customer, where I have addressed service staff as Sir/Madam etc. I would see service staff waiing as similar.

Its a customer service thing, not a superiority thing.

Go to shopping mall tomorrow and go to sizzler, MK etc, the cashier and 3-4 waiters will all wai you on arrival, I wouldn't be in the habit of returning a wai to each one.

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I am always polite to service staff as I have often had a second job as a barman or waiter.

In the west a waiter or service staff often address you as sir/Mr etc, What can I get you sir, would you like another drink Mr smith etc.

I have never found myself in a situation, as a customer, where I have addressed service staff as Sir/Madam etc. I would see service staff waiing as similar.

Its a customer service thing, not a superiority thing.

Go to shopping mall tomorrow and go to sizzler, MK etc, the cashier and 3-4 waiters will all wai you on arrival, I wouldn't be in the habit of returning a wai to each one.

 

Valid points but you are in effect ''Transliterating' the use of Sir, Mrs, Mr etc into use of the Wai - while this comparison is useful, its not an exact comparison...

 

You make a good point regarding Customer service - Upon arrival I too wouldn't return the Wai, I'd would nod my head and say hello in acknowledgment - However, upon departure I'd return a Wai to say thanks, but as you say, not to each one, but a general Wai..

 

Of course, each and every station is different... I rarely think about or try and dissect the Wai, I simply do what comes naturally at the time. Having spend my Adult life in Thailand (last 20 years) and with scores of Thai friends the behaviors sort of falls into place without too much thought. 

 

I suppose the best advice that could be received is to do what ever you feel is natural - Don't force a Wai, if you are uncomfortable Wai'ing then don't. But at the same time, don't avoid a Wai because you feel it would make you seem as if you are trying too hard.... 

 

As with all cultures Thai culture is multifaceted - there is little consistency, IMO the only wrong is in deliberately not making any effort at all to be polite, I find this true of any culture. 

 

 

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, timkeen08 said:

Military salutes are required by military personnel in most countries except noncom to noncom as far as I know. Why would they wai?

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Wai not?

[jayboy]

Returning a wai is polite. Thai people frequently return a wai to service staff. At least polite ones do. Some snobbish hi-so Thais might think they're superior. It would be nice to think that kind of superior attitude is in decline. Farangs should know better!

Actually I'm not sure why you think upper class Thais are necessarily snobbish.I have personally seen aristocratic Thais return wais to waiters at restaurants.

I hate that expression hiso because it is utterly drained of meaning now.Some foreigners describe their lower middle class Thai girlfriends as hiso simply because they have jobs outside the bar industry.


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[timkeen08]

I am always polite to service staff as I have often had a second job as a barman or waiter.
In the west a waiter or service staff often address you as sir/Mr etc, What can I get you sir, would you like another drink Mr smith etc.
I have never found myself in a situation, as a customer, where I have addressed service staff as Sir/Madam etc. I would see service staff waiing as similar.
Its a customer service thing, not a superiority thing.
Go to shopping mall tomorrow and go to sizzler, MK etc, the cashier and 3-4 waiters will all wai you on arrival, I wouldn't be in the habit of returning a wai to each one.

I Agree. If I am given a wai by a group - I give the group one wai in return as this is the way I many times see Thais respond. Two exceptions. Except in a family setting. Then I will follow my wife's lead and go out of my way to give any khun yai or any khun da a respectful wai. And except at MegaHome. Now they don't even get a wai, nod, or sawatdee back.

I also agree with your reference to the west. In the deep south USA, we usually do not address a waiter as sir. But out of "southern hospitality" traditions many usually say thank you mam to a waitress regardless of her age.

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[timkeen08]

Wai not?

As I stated, as far as I know. Do you know differently as to official Thai military protocal? Then please tell me when it is appropriate for a nocom or lower ranking officer to wai in a formal setting instead of a salute or following a salute with a wai in contradiction to the formal ceremony post that we are discussing. It would be an interesting fact to find out if the Thai military has a different protocal for a formal ceremony or even in an every day interaction. From an official source of course.

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[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 8:40 AM, Chou Anou said:

 

 

One NEVER wais service staff (including sex workers), though...every time I see a farang do that, I want to scream.  And I never, ever wai hanging portraits or statues, Hindu or Buddhist.

 

Again, if you don't speak Thai and have no intention of learning (which I imagine describes the majority of the "grumpy farang" variety of Thaivisa members, haha), then I agree that you don't need to bother with it.  However, if you seriously want to speak Thai and you don't wai appropriately, then no matter how good your tones or pronunciation, you're not really speaking the language properly.

every time I see a farang do that, I want to scream.

As do I, but most tourists know nothing about Thai culture beyond the 5 or so lines in the tourist brochure, so think they are being polite, while totally cocking it up.

 

As for speaking Thai, had I started learning it about 50 years ago I might have been able to do so now, but bar Thai is the best I can do, as it's just too complicated for an old dog.

So it's not that I have no intention, but rather no ability.

 

I don't like to be wai'd by the supermarket check out girl/ boy as it's so patently obvious that it's only a company policy and is no more meaningful than a western shop clerk saying "have a nice day".

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 2:57 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

 

, IMO the only wrong is in deliberately not making any effort at all to be polite, I find this true of any culture. 

 

 

Which is why I acknowledge a wai ( other than from a checkout person when it's just company policy and meaningless ) with a nod and a smile, but I never feel the need to wai, given that I have no idea of how high to do so as I do not know the intricacies of Thai society.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 2:14 PM, richard_smith237 said:

This is bar-stool talk and poor advice promoting poor manners. 

 

Of course Wai people back - Returning a Wai of those considered below your station is considered polite, while not returning the Wai of those considered below your station is also widely accepted, though less polite. IF you are not comfortable returning a Wai, at least acknowledge it with a nod of the head and a smile... 

 

There really is no faux-pas to be made when returning a Wai - whether to or not to is simply a measure of how superior you feel or how polite you naturally are (or wish to be seen). 

 

 

Of course there is faux pas to be made when wai'ing.

Nodding instead of making an incorrect wai is perfectly acceptable to Thais, and saves embarrassment for both parties.

[brewsterbudgen]

every time I see a farang do that, I want to scream.
As do I, but most tourists know nothing about Thai culture beyond the 5 or so lines in the tourist brochure, so think they are being polite, while totally cocking it up.
 
As for speaking Thai, had I started learning it about 50 years ago I might have been able to do so now, but bar Thai is the best I can do, as it's just too complicated for an old dog.
So it's not that I have no intention, but rather no ability.
 
I don't like to be wai'd by the supermarket check out girl/ boy as it's so patently obvious that it's only a company policy and is no more meaningful than a western shop clerk saying "have a nice day".

Why would you want to scream? What has it got to do with you how other people see Thai culture? I prescribe a dose of mai pen rai for you.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 11:33 AM, brewsterbudgen said:

Why would you want to scream? What has it got to do with you how other people see Thai culture? I prescribe a dose of mai pen rai for you.

Well, sometimes I want to laugh at them.

Thai culture does not depend on how "other people see" it.

[brewsterbudgen]

Well, sometimes I want to laugh at them.
Thai culture does not depend on how "other people see" it.

I agree. So why does it concern you if other people don't see adherence to what you consider Thai culture as important?

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[MrPatrickThai]

On 7/4/2017 at 7:40 AM, Lamkyong said:

Everyone goes through the same questions and hesitations??     not me and i think not many others   i just acknowledge  with a polite nod/dip of the head seems acceptable

So, you think you can ignore the local culture? Rather arrogant, if you ask me, unless you are a tourist, and many of them read up on local customs before coming.

[MrPatrickThai]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:13 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Which is why I acknowledge a wai ( other than from a checkout person when it's just company policy and meaningless ) with a nod and a smile, but I never feel the need to wai, given that I have no idea of how high to do so as I do not know the intricacies of Thai society.

So do you think if a Thai person comes to your country and just nods when you extend your hand for a handshake acceptable behavior?

[Lamkyong]

2 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

So, you think you can ignore the local culture? Rather arrogant, if you ask me, unless you are a tourist, and many of them read up on local customs before coming.

yes

[Lamkyong]

2 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

So do you think if a Thai person comes to your country and just nods when you extend your hand for a handshake acceptable behavior?

Thailand is my country of residence

[MrPatrickThai]

21 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

Thailand is my country of residence

I was talking about your original country, unless you are a Thai citizen. If a Thai person comes there to work, retire and just nods when you extend your hand for a handshake, you must think this is acceptable behavior. If not, it is hypocritical.

Edited July 10, 2017 by MrPatrickThai

[dick dasterdly]

At the end of the day, nobody has taken offence at my smile and obvious bowing of head.

[MrPatrickThai]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

At the end of the day, nobody has taken offence at my smile and obvious bowing of head.

No, they won't be offended but just think you are ignorant/arrogant, too superior to show them respect in the customary way. How long have you lived here?

[dick dasterdly]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

At the end of the day, nobody has taken offence at my smile and obvious bowing of head.

 

6 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

No, they won't be offended but just think you are ignorant/arrogant, too superior to show them respect in the customary way. How long have you lived here?

Only 11 years, and weirdly most of the Thais I 'know' are still extremely friendly towards me !

[MrPatrickThai]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Only 11 years, and weirdly most of the Thais I 'know' are still extremely friendly towards me !

So do you think if a Thai person comes to your home country and just nods when you extend your hand for a handshake acceptable behavior?

Would you think, they're only a Thai and don't know ho to do it?

TBH, when I was a newbie, I thought the same  and understand why you feel this way, but trust me, live another 20 years, understand the language and you'll think differently.

[huawei]

The handshake is not a comparable guesture. It is an easy rule if one offers a handshake it is a form of greeting, it has no social nuances behind it.A wai is more than that, depending on whom, context etc..

 

Not doing so is not a form of arrogance or ignorance. It is better to project your politeness in different (western manner) than do an incorrect wai. Thais do not get offended, this was told to me in my first job in BKK in mid 80's and has been my experience ever since.

 

when they opened that huge Tesco lotus on Rama 4 and the staff started wai-ing as matter of fact , not even bothering to look at you...then it started to lose it meaning and I very rarely use it now.

 

why is it disrespecting Thai culture when so many of their own disrespect it now..you need to lighten up..you are in essence trying to reflect your thainess onto other foreigners who you don't seem to regard in much high regard...

 

The language is a different issue..you could wai or not wai, you could do a great wai or a poor one, but if you speak Thai the impression you will create is a good positive one..initially, and yes it only about initial impressions..of course if you do the proper wai and speak Thai your quids in..

 

over the years of working here, the disparity of wealth, the treatment of the poor and disadvantaged, the abuse of privilege, the lack of universal good education, the endemic corruption at the institutional level etc..there is a lot that needs to be addressed...foreigners not wai-ing is not ignorance or arrogance,  and even if you think it is, it doesn't compare to that already firmly intrenched in large sections of Thai culture.