5 day tour, auto vs semi-auto?

[canthai55]

As posted I own a PCX, along with the other bikes listed. Brake fade is from overuse. Learn to ride the bike correctly, and you will not suffer brake fade. And the brakes have no idea of the type of bike they are a part of, auto, manual, DCT, rubber band, Fred Flinstone. Brakes are brakes, Fade is Fade - and the result of incorrect usage.

[chrissables]

2 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

As posted I own a PCX, along with the other bikes listed. Brake fade is from overuse. Learn to ride the bike correctly, and you will not suffer brake fade. And the brakes have no idea of the type of bike they are a part of, auto, manual, DCT, rubber band, Fred Flinstone. Brakes are brakes, Fade is Fade - and the result of incorrect usage.

I would presume you have ridden in the mountains of Thailand on the bikes you have / had?

 

Ride properly? What exactly are you implying, do you actually understand what brake fade is? 

 

If coming down Doi Ang Khang as my experience was, after a full days riding the brakes had brake fade, this is due to getting to hot. If you have been down this or similar mountains you would understand this happens. The choices are what? Use engine braking? Not on an auto. Use the brakes? Of course.

 

I am willing to listen to your idea of how you would ride down that mountain without engine brakes and not using the brakes too much. Have you ever ridden there? 

 

I have no idea of your experiences of riding motorbikes, but to continue arguing the point i was wrong with no answer of how you would deal with the situation is frankly ridiculous. 

 

Read this, it may educate you. They i am sure know more about brakes the your teacher or you do. 

 

Count the seconds between braking, actually that has given me a real laugh, i want to be taught by somebody like that! 555555555555

 

https://ebcbrakes.com/articles/what-is-brake-fade/

[canthai55]

I predict the brakes will fade when they overheat. I predict that they will overheat if you use them too much. I predict that if you know how to ride, you will not use the brakes in such a matter. You had brake fade - you overheated them. Going too fast ? Dragging the brakes ? Who knows - not even you it sounds like. Read what I posted re cooling off period - this is with DRUM brakes. Altho the same applies to discs.

[chrissables]

Just now, canthai55 said:

I predict the brakes will fade when they overheat. I predict that they will overheat if you use them too much. I predict that if you know how to ride, you will not use the brakes in such a matter. You had brake fade - you overheated them. Going too fast ? Dragging the brakes ? Who knows - not even you it sounds like. Read what I posted re cooling off period - this is with DRUM brakes. Altho the same applies to discs.

The PCX as you should know has a disc brake at the front. The front brake does the main braking.

 

For sure i was not going to fast or dragging the brakes. Predict brake fade, interesting if totally useless advice. 

 

Did you read the link? Do you think you know better than brake manufacturers? There is no indication of when it will happen. Except it is hot. How hot?

 

Having ridden 100,000 + km around Asia in the mountains as much as possible, you will find i do know how to ride, sometimes shit happens, brake fade happens. You can't put a time on when it will happen. Nobody i know of stops every 50km to piss or pour water on the brakes just in case, nobody.

 

This as a rule it happens on auto bike with no or little engine braking. 

 

 

[canthai55]

Horse Hockey. Blame yourself - learn to ride. I did. Which is why it never happened to me on a disc brake bike. Ever. Here - There - Everywhere - Anywhere. Because I know what I am doing.

[chrissables]

6 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Horse Hockey. Blame yourself - learn to ride. I did. Which is why it never happened to me on a disc brake bike. Ever. Here - There - Everywhere - Anywhere. Because I know what I am doing.

You are my hero!

 

You know better than me, i am so impressed!

 

Never had it happen to you means what exactly? I have never had a bike breakdown on me, does that make me smarter than others who have, of course not. Add something that is helpful to the conversation, nobody likes a smart <deleted> who knows all, and helps not a bit.

 

Please call the brake company, they need some smart arse wise guy like to to advise them.

 

I will carry on riding my way. I did not have some fool to teach me to ride and count seconds between braking, and it seems your knowledge is no greater than his.

Edited July 9, 2017 by chrissables

[Kwasaki]

7 hours ago, chrissables said:

You are my hero!

 

You know better than me, i am so impressed!

 

Never had it happen to you means what exactly? I have never had a bike breakdown on me, does that make me smarter than others who have, of course not. Add something that is helpful to the conversation, nobody likes a smart <deleted> who knows all, and helps not a bit.

 

Please call the brake company, they need some smart arse wise guy like to to advise them.

 

I will carry on riding my way. I did not have some fool to teach me to ride and count seconds between braking, and it seems your knowledge is no greater than his.

So you are a fully qualified motorcycle/ scooter engineer yeah. 

 

You make me laugh,  with your maybe not false but your personal experience just because you rode Nam on not more than a moped you think you know it all.

 

You just won't except that what you experienced on your PCX scooter was a fault, come on l would never believe what you post on motorcycle/ scoot failures sorry your posts show it's off the top of your head..  

 

Sintered brake pads are presently the most popular type of linings.

They are used as original equipment on nearly all motorcycles and scooters because they handle the widest range of conditions.

Sintering is a process of fusing metallic particles under heat and pressure to form a friction material that is very wear resistant.

Because of this, sintered linings are well suited for racers, city riders and those on steep hilly terrain.

Sintered brake linings provides a stable friction coefficient cold to hot and produce good bite right away.

They also handle extreme heat well,  are resistant to fade and will typically last longer than other types and perform well even in rain and mud.

However, they do have drawbacks sintered pads produce more wear on brake disc's.

 

Stop scaring people on here that ride motorbike/ scooters that just rely on getting there machines serviced.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Kwasaki

[chrissables]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

So you are a fully qualified motorcycle/ scooter engineer yeah. 

 

You make me laugh,  with your maybe not false but your personal experience just because you rode Nan on not more than a moped you think you know it all.

 

You just won't except that what you experienced on your PCX scooter was a fault, come on l would never believe what you post on motorcycle/ scoot failures sorry your posts show it's off the top of your head..  

 

Sintered brake pads are presently the most popular type of linings.

They are used as original equipment on nearly all motorcycles and scooters because they handle the widest range of conditions.

Sintering is a process of fusing metallic particles under heat and pressure to form a friction material that is very wear resistant.

Because of this, sintered linings are well suited for racers, city riders and those on steep hilly terrain.

Sintered brake linings provides a stable friction coefficient cold to hot and produce good bite right away.

They also handle extreme heat well,  are resistant to fade and will typically last longer than other types and perform well even in rain and mud.

However, they do have drawbacks sintered pads produce more wear on brake disc's.

Not once have i said i am a motorbike / scooter engineer. 

 

I posted a link from a brake manufacturing company explaining what brake fade is and how it comes with no warning. That is all.

 

I presume you mean Vietnam? I rode around there on one bike last year for 3 months. Saigon up the Ho Chi Minh road to the Chinese border and back. 10 + km on a manual Honda  150 cc, if that is relevant to you. What is it that you think i know all about? 

 

Where have i said i know it all? I have explained what happened to me, that is a fact, not an apparition. 

 

Was the brake fade a fault? I suppose you could explain that way. But who was at fault? The bike was fully serviced prior to the trip (This was north Thailand, not Vietnam) So is it my fault? If you think so, please explain. I was far from speeding, it was dark, coming down Doi Ang Khang, if you know the mountain, you would understand there is no way anyone would speed down there at night with the only light being the headlight. The other option was brake fade, what could i have done to stop that? As stated there is no warning it goes from full use to nothing. 

 

I am sure had i been on a manual bike so i could use engine braking it would not of happened.

 

I can't tell you the brand of the brake pads. I took the bike to 3 different shops to try and find out what the problem was and what was required to repair it. They checked the disc and pads and said all ok. Only when i demanded they change everything including the brake fluid did the problem get resolved.

 

Had i not serviced the bike prior to the trip, of course i would take responsibility. If i was speeding or over using the brakes, again i would take responsibility. But i was not. I don't look for excuses i look for reasons, so i can learn. I know (now) brake fade is an issue with auto bike in the mountains.

 

 

[AllanB]

You guys arguing about how to ride a bike and good bike maintenance are missing a crucial point in this thread. This is going to be a "hire" bike, in VN, so this argument goes straight out of the window. 

 

You need a bike that is "inherently" safe/r, not one that may or may not be. That means gears, with a manual or an auto clutch. The facility to chuck it into 1st could save your life.

 

Big wheels are also an asset too and a bike that the locals can fix with a knife and fork..... sorry spoon and fork.

Edited July 9, 2017 by AllanB

[tj916]

Early PCX's had Honda's linked brake system, ie apply the front brake and it also supples limited pressure to the rear drum brake.

Maybe there was a fault in the system if you lost braking force completely.

Have experienced brake fade on HGV's, performance cars and race motorbikes, never lost all brake force, just more travel on the lever/pedal on the bikes and cars.

And a worrying burning smell from the HGV's and my trousers!!

[chrissables]

8 hours ago, tj916 said:

Early PCX's had Honda's linked brake system, ie apply the front brake and it also supples limited pressure to the rear drum brake.

Maybe there was a fault in the system if you lost braking force completely.

Have experienced brake fade on HGV's, performance cars and race motorbikes, never lost all brake force, just more travel on the lever/pedal on the bikes and cars.

And a worrying burning smell from the HGV's and my trousers!!

Hi, it was just the front brake, i managed to drag my feet and ride into the drainage ditch at the side of the road.

This was at the top of Doi Ang Khang, not far from the Army roadblock at the top, i had ridden up the back way from Wiang Haeng, so the brakes should not have been overly hot as they were not used in the climb!

 

The first photo, the view to Doi Ang Khang coming from Wiang Haeng direction, the sun was already low in the sky, pitch black before i got the the bottom.

 

The other photo shows the front brake lever touching the grip, this was the second time it happened.

[thaiguzzi]

Once brake fluid gets too hot it's <deleted>. Brakes will never be fine until the fluid is changed and bled. Ditto brake pads of any make.

Had something similar happen to me coming down Doi Inthanon in my old Nissan Frontier truck about 14 years ago.

[Kwasaki]

On 7/9/2017 at 10:25 AM, canthai55 said:

Horse Hockey. Blame yourself - learn to ride. I did. Which is why it never happened to me on a disc brake bike. Ever. Here - There - Everywhere - Anywhere. Because I know what I am doing.

He might get offensive no need for you to,  on a modern disc brake bike/scoot it wouldn't happen anywhere in Thailand or Nam in hilly roads unless there is a fault.

 

A good point made by @AllanB  if the bike is being hired in Nam and your not clued up with the basic workings of motorcycle/scoot knowledge wear some adult diapers.  

[metisdead]

Flame posts and replies have been removed. 

[guzzi850m2]

7 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Once brake fluid gets too hot it's <deleted>. Brakes will never be fine until the fluid is changed and bled. Ditto brake pads of any make.

Had something similar happen to me coming down Doi Inthanon in my old Nissan Frontier truck about 14 years ago.

Good points. I never seen Thais changing brake fluid on their small bikes.

 

I had it changed once on my pcx and I had to buy the whole bottle as they could never sell the remaining fluid in that bottle.

 

Getting a rental semi-auto or manual small bike seems like the way to go in those step mountains as you will never know what you will be getting. Rental bikes/cars are generally poorly maintained in order to increase the profit for the owner.  

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

Good points. I never seen Thais changing brake fluid on their small bikes.

 

I had it changed once on my pcx and I had to buy the whole bottle as they could never sell the remaining fluid in that bottle.

 

Getting a rental semi-auto or manual small bike seems like the way to go in those step mountains as you will never know what you will be getting. Rental bikes/cars are generally poorly maintained in order to increase the profit for the owner.  

So you agree with yourself post,  l talk myself quite often too it's the only way l get the right answers.  

[Rainville]

How easy is it to get a rental automatic checked up in a 24h window? Would it be recommended? Costly?

[canthai55]

20 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Once brake fluid gets too hot it's <deleted>. Brakes will never be fine until the fluid is changed and bled. Ditto brake pads of any make.

Had something similar happen to me coming down Doi Inthanon in my old Nissan Frontier truck about 14 years ago.

Due to brake fluid being hygroscopic, I change my bikes every year. Cars every 2 years. Especially important with ABS - and the small solenoids. Cheap insurance.