Teacher Candidates Demand English Requirements Be Reduced

[biker Bob]

16 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's mostly grammar that English natives could not pass so they have a point, you can read and speak English very well and still fail this test

No. it's not. That is simply not true.  First part is listening, the second part is reading comprehension.

[speckio]

250?!?!?!?

 

they should just remove the requirement completely!

 

A score of 250 is around 50 correct answers out of 200.

 

at 250 you will barely be able to pick up keywords or phrases.. forming coherent sentences is extremely difficult

 

comprehension is minimal

 

Airline cabin crews  require a score of 600

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by speckio
error

[speckio]

10 minutes ago, biker Bob said:

No. it's not. That is simply not true.  First part is listening, the second part is reading comprehension.

 

Yep and a score of 250 is almost zero comprehension at 250 you might be able to understand a few key words.. but you have no chance of carrying a conversation. 

[greenchair]

17 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's mostly grammar that English natives could not pass so they have a point, you can read and speak English very well and still fail this test

Was there a survey about this? 

Where do you get your information? 

[carlyai]

Bastardized American-English, eh? What makes old world "Classical English" so much better? Can you imagine Thai students trying to learn that stuffy, elitist version of English all day long? That's comical! Everyone wants to learn the streamlined and efficient version of English: American-English! :)

Give me Welsh or Australian English any day. 555

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[ccarbaugh]

   .... On a multiple-choice test, a monkey can score 250!   ( a, b, c , or d - eeniminee, miney-moh, ...) 

 

[sking51]

When I taught international students, including Thais, at the Masters level, the Thais could not keep up with those (professional) students from other countries in SEAsia and South Asia....never mind with questioning, using critical thinking, etc. Its the whole system!!

[saminoz]

4 hours ago, Echo Tango said:

Bastardized American-English, eh? What makes old world "Classical English" so much better? Can you imagine Thai students trying to learn that stuffy, elitist version of English all day long? That's comical! Everyone wants to learn the streamlined and efficient version of English: American-English! :)

By denigrating the "Classical" English as stuffy and elitist, you are basically admitting that it's too difficult for you to use correctly - hence the American "bastardised" (it's an "s" not a "z" (and that is pronounced "zed", not "zee"!)) version.  Laziness at its best.

It's the English language.  It's ours.  Hands off!

[Cadbury]

1 hour ago, Thai Ron said:

Oh do establish a grip on reality and prick that bubble of sanctimony.

"Shit" and "crap" passed into everyday vernacular long ago and ceased to be offensive.

Only an insufferable bore would take issue with such innocuous words.

Words that make it through the forum's language filters perfectly intact, I hasten to add.

 

Good to see you are out of bed nice and early. This language might pass as everyday talk in your local bar Ron and that's fine by me. I use it myself from time to time in private conversation. But I see profanity passing as forum "talk" as a puerile way to make a point.

Anyway I was commenting on your ability to spell those words correctly which you did and for that I give you and elephant stamp.

[todlad]

11 minutes ago, saminoz said:

By denigrating the "Classical" English as stuffy and elitist, you are basically admitting that it's too difficult for you to use correctly - hence the American "bastardised" (it's an "s" not a "z" (and that is pronounced "zed", not "zee"!)) version.  Laziness at its best.

It's the English language.  It's ours.  Hands off!

Moreover, educated Americans usually speak English that is not a million miles from Classical. I think this chap is talking about the Yanks who don't understand prepositions and adverbs, among others!

[mlmcleod]

Pilots and air traffic controllers need to speak good English too!  Sadly, this has caused terrible accidents in the past and will continue in the future!

 

I might suggest that a passing score needs to be 600+.

[Italian guy]

17 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Lower quality English teachers required to teach English, am  I reading this upside down? LOL

As far as I understand, they're not talking of "English teachers"... I hope I'm right... 

[biker Bob]

59 minutes ago, speckio said:

 

Yep and a score of 250 is almost zero comprehension at 250 you might be able to understand a few key words.. but you have no chance of carrying a conversation. 

I agree with you.  I was just saying that it is not a grammar test. 

[KhaoNiaw]

1 hour ago, FredNL said:

The position requires scores of 400 of 990 for the Test of English for International Communications, or TOEIC; 3.5 of 9 for the International English Language Testing System, or IELTS; or 40 out of 120 for the Test of English as a Foreign Language Internet-Based Test, or TOEFL iBT.

 

In the western world:

400 of 990 --> You FAIL  (40.4%)

3.5 of 9 --> You FAIL (38.9%)

40 out of 120 --> You FAIL  (33.3%)

 

In normal (western) countries you only pass when you score 60%. Not less than that !!!

 

 

Those tests are not pass or fail. That's not what they're designed for. Those scores may be perfectly adequate for certain contexts. You're displaying your own ignorance.
Your post --> You FAIL

[Jonnapat]

Without a doubt the worst English-speaking country in SE Asia.

TV is a prime example and although presenters can often speak English It's the terrible pronunciation which lets them down.

I watch English football and It's sometimes impossible to know which club or which player is being mentioned. 

So as Thais watch a lot of tv it's little wonder that they pick up all the bad habits from this source.

[zyphodb]

As if it wasn't bad enough already, they want to make it worse... Ah well TIT   555

[mikiea]

17 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Lets face it; many Thai's can't even read or speak their own language properly !

you hansom man ......long long time .....ehh.....that is about all they need to know (young women).....not now , tomorrow (young men )

Edited July 7, 2017 by mikiea

[lvr181]

AKA dumbing down in order to let someone pass a test/exam. Lowering standards helps nobody. 

[JAG]

I believe concentrating on pronunciation, speaking and listening skills are more important than grammar. 
The education system seems to push the grammar because it's easy to get material from the Internet and doesn't require much skill or work. 
Unfortunately it's very boring and does not help communication as its not practical when they cannot speak English. 
But talking is important for communication. 
Gramnar can be taught later when communication skills have improved and they can learn grammar from talking. 
 
 

Think of grammar like this.

A heap of bicycle parts on the floor in the middle of the room. That is the vocabulary.

Assemble them to produce a working bicycle - that is the grammar.

Granted you dont need to know all the ins and outs of adverbs of frequency in the passive voice, ( just as well really because few of us do), but to use the language effectively you need to understand verbs nouns and adjectives.

The bicycle won't work if you weld the front chain sprocket to the handlebars!

[janpharma]

They want to change the "Thailand 4.0" project into : "Thailand 0.4"....

[JAG]

It is a shame that there is some truth in what you say isn't it.
 
The driver/handyman at the hotel near DMK I just left speaks English well enough to talk to me about Man United, Buddha holiday, which airline I need ... my guess is about the level to which teachers do not want to aspire. 
 
Like many people here, I have worked in many countries and one big advantage of language skills is that you get the job working on international projects if your foreign boss can talk to you. I have worked with people with lower level technical skills but their language skills made up for that in part. In other words, English (another language) will give you an edge.
 
For teachers: how are you going to access and read your educational research papers in English, how will you find the materials that you need to build up your own library of resources?

The thing is, that handyman fellow probably interacts with English speakers everyday. His ability to speak English adequately also probably has a direct bearing on his income (tips). Except for the Man Utd bit obviously.

He therefore has a direct incentive to speak the language.

Thai teachers don't...

[AlphMichaels]

18 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's mostly grammar that English natives could not pass so they have a point, you can read and speak English very well and still fail this test

One need only visit TVF once a week to see an alarming number of native English speakers who apparently slept through elementary English in school.  Like calling the kettle black to slam these teachers even though I do not agree with the proposition presented.  

 

I'd submit the request be denied with prejudice.   Deliver compensatory reward for success.  If that's not a motivation, no other will successfully supplant it.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by AlphMichaels

[dcnx]

16 hours ago, mok199 said:

i want my boy to speak thai i am proud he is 49% thai haha.,but i know the system and i am also ,out numbered with my wifes familly and freinds so i insist we ''over compinsate''using english more than thai,knowing he is bombarded with thai all day...

You are is only hope. 

[MarcelV]

Blows my mind. As a non-native English speaker and teacher at a secondary Thai school, I consider myself unsuitable to teach English in Thailand, even though I got the maximum TOEIC score last year. But apparently some people think 250 should be enough. If you've made the test you'd know even 400 is nothing to brag about. Most Thai teachers at my school never even made any test, some of which I doubt would qualify otherwise.

 

[Momofarang]

47 minutes ago, JAG said:

Think of grammar like this.

A heap of bicycle parts on the floor in the middle of the room. That is the vocabulary.

Assemble them to produce a working bicycle - that is the grammar.

Granted you dont need to know all the ins and outs of adverbs of frequency in the passive voice, ( just as well really because few of us do), but to use the language effectively you need to understand verbs nouns and adjectives.

The bicycle won't work if you weld the front chain sprocket to the handlebars!

I don't speak Thai (yet), but from my interactions with Thai people, particularly my beloved wife, I get the impression that Thai grammar is quite weak when it comes to place actions in time, pasts/present/futures, and handle subjunctive, conditional, imperative, etc modes. Someone said something like "learning a language changes the way you think". Clearly Thais are in dire need to learn english, to become engineers. I can also remember back in 1989 having three big UPS delivered to our office in Hanoi, the documentation was entirely written in Thai with about every tenth word in english... Yesterday I got a mail from Bumrungrad Business center: "Sorry Sir we can't translate your medical report from French to English".. (ended up doing it myself, but don't tell immigration). When I travel to Malaysia, or even Indonesia, I feel at home, as I can have a normal conversation with almost any (educated) person I meet..

 

I could go on, but ensuring that English becomes a strong second language for every student at college entrance would definitely help this country to cease to be the dump it is now...

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by Momofarang

[off road pat]

19 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I am yet to meet a local Government school teacher who can actually speak good English, or a non farang student from a Government school that can either. Lowering the criteria is not going to improve the situation. The best teachers of any language are of course native speakers, but schools here are not prepared to either pay for them, or give the work permits. Thailand is not investing properly in their children's future, unlike Cambodia, where the kids even at 10, speak English well.

Or Malaysia and Myanmar.

Edited July 7, 2017 by off road pat

[silent]

3 hours ago, 1SteveC said:

 

And in English ?

can't say. I can only speak it too and thinking in it requires a master's

[Ombra]

19 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Lower quality English teachers required to teach English, am  I reading this upside down? LOL

They seem to be referring to prospective teachers of any subject rather than future teachers of English. If every would-be British or American teacher had to achieve a modest degree of competence in a foreign language, I suspect that there would be many children without teachers.

 

The article in the link below refers to the decline of competence in French in Britain, and yet French is a cognate language.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-11086381

[todlad]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

The thing is, that handyman fellow probably interacts with English speakers everyday. His ability to speak English adequately also probably has a direct bearing on his income (tips). Except for the Man Utd bit obviously.

He therefore has a direct incentive to speak the language.

Thai teachers don't...

I had a gardener in Africa who spoke excellent English. I have worked with professionals whose English is rubbish.

 

You make a fair point about the driver but I fail to see why Thai teachers might have no incentive to use English. That they don't marks them out as less fit for responsibility. I am sure there are many excellent educational resources in Thai but there are many more in English.

 

What about ASEAN? What is/are the common language(s)?

 

On the other hand ... i am on a bus seated next to a Thai woman. She called her farang bf to let him know her plane had landed. He talked like this:

 

You get Buriram already?

Now you go Surin? You go Surin?

How long take you go Surin?

 

This kind of insulting English these stupid men speak is very common. It's the equivalent of baby talk.

 

The biggest problem i hear from Thai speakers of English: the verb to be.  Second problem is word endings: they chop them off.

[JGV]

As a teacher I have a few comments

1 TOEIC is about grammar and also listening skills - no speaking skills are assessed

2 In the absence of a speaking test the exam is for adults and assesses the ability to understand written English in grammar form so in effect tests ability to understand the language which must clearly be the most important factor if one is going to teach that subject, This would be the same with all subjects.

3 Thais reluctance to accept the score necessary to pass and thus be seen as necessary to teach the subject reflects on their attitude towards the subject and suggests that they are happy to teach the subject to a lower level which will only have a detrimental effect on the students grasp of the subject matter

4 Point 3 illustrates how teachers assume they have a job for life and doesn't require that they also develop and improve the quality of their teaching. This attitude is symptomatic of those

who want more for less and that is why the Education department is so corrupt - poor levels of teaching are rewarded with soft loans to buy new cars rather than dismissal.