Chonburi woman has her leg broken at a traditional Thai massage shop

[webfact]

Masseur breaks client’s leg, still demands fee

By The Nation

 

 

The owner of a Chon Buri massage parlour faces charges after one of his customers suffered a broken leg during a treatment and still had to pay Bt700 for the service.

 

A complaint filed by the 59-year-old woman’s daughter prompted Muang district officials and police to inspect the premises and charges were filed against the owner, Nathanapop Klachingchai, 50.

 

Nathanapop is charged with having no permits to operate a business, to operate a business that could affect people’s health, or to operate a service establishment.

 

The last charge carries the heaviest penalty – up to a year in prison and/or a fine of up to Bt60,000.

 

Pimyanee Thanyawongsakul sustained a broken leg while Nathanapop was giving her a massage. He insisted nevertheless on being paid his Bt700 fee. 

 

Incensed that Nathanapop didn’t visit her mother in hospital, Pimyanee’s daughter Saranya, 25, filed a police complaint demanding compensation.

 

Nathanapop claimed in his defence that Pimkyanee hadn’t informed him she suffered from osteoporosis, which can leave bones brittle. Had she done so, he said, he would have refused to give her a massage. 

 

He said he was obliged to collect payment as a “traditional massage teacher-worshiping fee”. 

 

Nathanapop said he would pawn his motorcycle to get the money to compensate the family and, if that wasn’t enough, he would pay the rest in instalments.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30320747

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-07-14

[sawadee1947]

18 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

A few very good points, but not done by all Thai masseurs.
You DO have input on what you want, and if they refuse to stop then get up and walk out.
As I have stated in several posts, check the credentials. Bad habit of mine to look at the "brag wall" of any doctor I see.
If they do not have a certificate of training displayed, then do not use their service.

ONE citation from ONE event does not make your point

Look my friend, my screenshot was taken from a well known website: NCBI = US National  Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health. You'll find many abstracts about the benefit of Thai massage. Don't be angry or upset. Be happy

[Bill Miller]

14 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

My own personal "alarm bell" is if they bother to ask/check for "contra-indications" it speaks volumes as to training and knowledge and if they dont ask its time to leave.

Yes! I have been refused for being diabetic. There is no actual contraindication as far as I know, but she would not take a chance on creating harm. 

[Bill Miller]

"Nathanapop is charged with having no permits to operate a business, to operate a business that could affect people’s health, or to operate a service establishment."

Yep, exit stage left.
This IS one of those people you talk about, Sawasdee.

[MaeJoMTB]

5 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I am not sure if this was  the fault of the massage. Leg bones don't break easy.  I wonder if she had a problem with her bone may be a big cyst that was unknown - or even worse a tumour. The x-ray would show this clearly.

At her age almost certainly Osteoporosis, impossible to break a leg bone with your bare hands.

 

I didn't even need to read the full story. Beyond stupid a woman with osteoporosis having Thai massage, she could break her leg walking up stairs.

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[sawadee1947]

36 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

as far as I know

and you don't know since ?????

[PremiumLane]

Thai massages are good for you, now that's a scientific fact: there's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact.

[joepattaya1961]

10 hours ago, colinneil said:

This massage shop owner is obviously unaware of the power of social media.

Silly bugger should have just paid up for the ladies treatment, and that would have been the end of the matter.

Now after not paying up, he risks losing his business and livelihood, silly man.

You don't wanna know how many masochists there are around......this could be booming business. 

[Kabula]

8 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

There are actually a number of medical studies that contradict that.
While not the "miracle cure" that some proponents would claim, it has been proven to have a number of beneficial results, including beneficial hormonal changes which are quantitatively significant and not merely subjective "feelings".
"Feel good" hormones such as serotonin, oxytocin, and dopamine have been shown to increase, while the stress hormones such as epinephrine decrease in response to massage stimuli.
Particularly noticeable to me is a visible decrease in pitting edema in my feet and legs, which my partner has remarked upon as well. Good enough for me

Some might argue the last 10 minutes of a Thai massage for 1000 THB + extra makes the prostrate gland flush all the poison out!  If you don't use it you lose it and if you can keep wood till 75 we'll that is a miracle and bless them all! 

[Rimmer]

An off topic  troll post in poor taste has been removed

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, Kabula said:

Some might argue the last 10 minutes of a Thai massage for 1000 THB + extra makes the prostrate gland flush all the poison out!  If you don't use it you lose it and if you can keep wood till 75 we'll that is a miracle and bless them all! 

I don't think the lady was there for her prostate though.

[perthperson]

Judging from the photograph this unfortunate woman has sustained a fracture of her femur. The femur is a massively strong bone which would be almost impossible to break manually.  It will be shown, I expect, that this lady had a pre-existing problem with her femur which was weakened by a large bone cyst or by a malignant disease process. 

 

 

[Jonmarleesco]

16 hours ago, webfact said:

the kind of massage advertised by the shop is referred to as "jap sen" in Thai

Karate everywhere else.

[Jonmarleesco]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

He said he was obliged to collect payment as a “traditional massage teacher-worshiping fee”. 

A what?

[perthperson]

6 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Bad habit of mine to look at the "brag wall" of any doctor I see.
If they do not have a certificate of training displayed, then do not use their service.

The Doctors I know do not have "brag walls"  and those who are impressed by such displays should remember that "certificates" can easily be acquired via the internet or from  Khao San Road..

[Kabula]

59 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I don't think the lady was there for her prostate though.

How do you know she was female or even a lady?  I was replying to a post making no reference about female content, but health benefits from a massage. 

[canuckamuck]

38 minutes ago, Kabula said:

How do you know she was female or even a lady?  I was replying to a post making no reference about female content, but health benefits from a massage. 

Sorry should have indicated humor with an emoji  Still, I doubt she got her leg broke during a prostate massage

[lamyai3]

17 hours ago, khunPer said:

How many cases about "accidents" with traditional Thai massage do we hear about in the news..?
–I still believe it's many fold safer to receive traditional Thai massage in a massage shop, than being outside in the traffic...

Fully agree, highly inadvisable to undergo a Thai massage outdoors in the middle of an intersection.

[LawrenceN]

21 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I am not sure if this was  the fault of the massage. Leg bones don't break easy.  I wonder if she had a problem with her bone may be a big cyst that was unknown - or even worse a tumour. The x-ray would show this clearly.

Or osteoporosis?

 

[lamyai3]

18 hours ago, steve73 said:

You'd never get broken bones in a soapy.... although might get a broken boner..!

Usually due to one of the parties slipping on the soap! 

[lamyai3]

17 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Bullshit, pure and simple. You cannot receive a government certificate in a three-day course. It must be from a government accredited program, although I expect you are one of the sorts who declaims everything Thai is no good, suspect, etc.
As with anything, are you going to trust a chiropractor with a strip mall storefront practice, or go to someone with a professional office?
Same with Thai massage places. The storefront places are likely just fine for a foot massage, but for more serious needs look at the credentials.
By the way, a massage is very different from a medical consultation. That is a faulty analogy in the apples vs oranges area. See ibid about 'Thai massage is not the miracle cure that some proponents claim'.

One of the most respected standards nationally has always been a certificate from Wat Pho.... and they will provide a 30 hour certificate in about ten days or so. This is often the certificate you see on the walls of the massage shop. The 1-3 day certificate is a tourist gimmick (nonetheless paraded as a genuine qualification elsewhere). But make no mistake, those girls in the massage shops around town don't have or need anything more than one of these very basic qualifications to get a job.

Edited July 15, 2017 by lamyai3

[Bill Miller]

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

One of the most respected standards nationally has always been a certificate from Wat Pho.... and they will provide a 30 hour certificate in about ten days or so. This is often the certificate you see on the walls of the massage shop. The 1-3 day certificate is a tourist gimmick (nonetheless paraded as a genuine qualification elsewhere). But make no mistake, those girls in the massage shops around town don't have or need anything more than one of these very basic qualifications to get a job.

No doubt. Once again, look at the certificates, unless you are going for a one off.
I am at a point in life generally and my life in Thailand that I wish to establish a relationship with those folks one does business with; a decent masseuse, a good barber, my favourite vendors at the fresh market, etc.
 
An example, as here, indicates the successful completion of an 180-hour training course in massage. Serious practitioners will have several of these, encompassing successive levels and different specialties. 
My point is that it is perhaps foolish to dismiss the practice as having no value and to denigrate all practitioners as "1-3 day certificate holders". I have seen certificates for up to 800 hours course completion. Bear in mind that an associates degree in some disciplines may be awarded on the basis of as little as sixty semester hours.
I just take issue with the "it is Thai and therefore no good" attitude, ya know?

[BifBaker]

Probably not enough calcium in her diet, and at her age 59? Even the female masseuses can bring it on. 1 was enough for me.

[silent]

On 7/14/2017 at 11:57 AM, nasanews said:

I used to have terrible pain in my both hips when I stand still for few minutes so, I went to TBMI Thai blind massage institute and told the masseur about it then he told me to come back again at least three more times.   Surprisingly the pain is no longer felt.

some swear by chiroquacktic manipulation too, but after one treatment from one intent on fixing a curvature that was supposed to be the source of pain,  I'll never be convinced that the compensatory scoliosis from the wedge shaped anomolies of the T11 and 12 vertebraes are really a congenital deformaty..

[The Deerhunter]

16 hours ago, perthperson said:

Judging from the photograph this unfortunate woman has sustained a fracture of her femur. The femur is a massively strong bone which would be almost impossible to break manually.  It will be shown, I expect, that this lady had a pre-existing problem with her femur which was weakened by a large bone cyst or by a malignant disease process. 

 

 

OOPs,  Near the knee.  My post was about NOF (neck-of-femur) but I have withdrawn it.  Yes very possibly a cyst or tumor but you would imagine they would have found that when they pinned it.  Poor lady.  Hard to imagine how anyone could break a femur there in any sort of massage.  You would imagine the knee to dislocate first unless the upper leg was literally jumped upon.  This takes the common (totally wrong) Thai supposition that massages have to be painful to be doing any good; to a whole new level.

Edited July 15, 2017 by The Deerhunter

[The Deerhunter]

15 hours ago, Kabula said:

How do you know she was female or even a lady?  I was replying to a post making no reference about female content, but health benefits from a massage. 

The photo in the OP shows a female which is at least a part of the equation.

[perthperson]

Just now, The Deerhunter said:

Huh?  The neck of femur, (as opposed to the shaft of femur) is tiny and very vulnerable in all older people.  Probably more than a million older ladies break them every year all over the world because of osteoporosis.  It is the most likely spontaneous fracture anywhere in the body for women over 65 and men just a few years later.  Osteoporosis sets in years before that event occurs.  All ladies over 55 should be considered to have lessened bone density, particularly in their NOF's.  How many Thai seniors take calcium supplements?

Can you provide reputable links that prove your assertions especially the "spontaneous fracture" claim.

 

Here is something for you to explain

 

"Age-adjusted rate of hip fractures is highest in
Scandinavian and North American populations and is lower
in Southern European countries. Hip fracture risk is lower
in Asian and Latin American populations and is lower in
rural areas than in urban areas" *** 

 

 *** Ref 

Journal of IMAB
ISSN: 1312-773X

 

Since when have fractured necks of femur been treated with skeletal traction? 
 

[Bill Miller]

16 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Can you provide reputable links that prove your assertions especially the "spontaneous fracture" claim.

 

Here is something for you to explain

 

"Age-adjusted rate of hip fractures is highest in
Scandinavian and North American populations and is lower
in Southern European countries. Hip fracture risk is lower
in Asian and Latin American populations and is lower in
rural areas than in urban areas" *** 

 

 *** Ref 

Journal of IMAB
ISSN: 1312-773X

 

Since when have fractured necks of femur been treated with skeletal traction? 
 

Part of the difference, I expect without making assertions, is due to lifestyle differences.
Rural populations are more likely to walk, thereby increasing bone strength and offsetting the effects of age related osteoporosis.
A similar condition pertains to geographical differences, wherein automobile ownership is less universal in Southern European locales than North America or Scandinavian countries.
Might make for an interesting study, if not already done.
Walk, walk, walk.

[The Deerhunter]

41 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Can you provide reputable links that prove your assertions especially the "spontaneous fracture" claim.

 

Here is something for you to explain

 

"Age-adjusted rate of hip fractures is highest in
Scandinavian and North American populations and is lower
in Southern European countries. Hip fracture risk is lower
in Asian and Latin American populations and is lower in
rural areas than in urban areas" *** 

 

 *** Ref 

Journal of IMAB
ISSN: 1312-773X

 

Since when have fractured necks of femur been treated with skeletal traction? 
 

Please note that I had already realized my error and that it was a shaft of femur not neck.  Possibly you replied in the very few minutes between my posting and discovery of my error and removing the post.  I even did the edit in two parts, deleting the post and saving it before replacing the text.   Sorry about that.  I was quite surprised originally to see the traction wires and that was one of the reasons I went back and re-read the original post.   One more reason we should always read every word of the post before replying.  A common problem on forums like these.  I have even been guilty of it before (in nearly 4000 posts) but not in this type of matter.   I do have considerable (past) professional experience with spontaneous NOF's and also regarding massage therapy.  

[perthperson]

Just now, The Deerhunter said:

I do have considerable (past) professional experience with spontaneous NOF's

Where is the evidence to be found which supports this claim you keep making about "spontaneous" fractures.