New Immigration Rule???

[stupidfarang]

Hi

Has anyone come across this "New Rule"????

 

Was at the local Chumphon Immigration office recently to report that I was back in Thailand after being away overseas for a month. (am on a retirement visa), a friend was there renewing his yearly retirement visa for another year (has lived here for 15 years) and he was told that there is a new rule where if you go away and stay in a hotel or resort (in Thailand, i.e a weekend break or a holiday in Thailand) then you must report to immigration when you get back along with the house owner to say you are back. They even showed him on the computer a list of hotels he had stayed at over the past. 

 

Has anyone else come across this in the past couple of months?

[overherebc]

Old rule new re-enforcement.

[perthperson]

OP  

 

FYI 

 

You(?) and your friend have extensions of stay based on retirement. Extensions of stay are NOT visas.

[ubonjoe]

It is just a office being very pedant about TM30 reporting. Unless you change your permanent residence there is no requirement to do a new one after staying in hotel because they reported you.

Most offices would not go into a special database for TM30 reporting to find out you stayed in a hotel.

[YetAnother]

2 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

and stay in a hotel or resort

heard something some time back that guesthouses were exempt from this , cant see why , but is it true ?

[perthperson]

Just now, YetAnother said:

heard something some time back that guesthouses were exempt from this , cant see why , but is it true ?

Not true !   All hotels and guest houses are required to notify immigration of their foreign guests arrival - 

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is just a office being very pedant about TM30 reporting. Unless you change your permanent residence there is no requirement to do a new one after staying in hotel because they reported you.

Most offices would not go into a special database for TM30 reporting to find out you stayed in a hotel.

What special database?

[ubonjoe]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

What special database?

Another database that is not the main one that your record is kept in. A TM30 report is not shown in it.

[perthperson]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

What special database?

The one maintained by local immigration offices which records TM30 reports from hotels/guest houses. Many of these businesses report online (or did -- the system is not currently available! )

[terminatorchiangmai]

Did this at Chiang mai immigration when i came back from a long weekend on Koh Samed .

They where asking me what do you want us to do ?

Only needed if you have a new arrival / departure card is what to told me,.

Looks like every officer and office has its own rules.

They should be making it clear for everyone, same rules apply everywhere.

[DavisH]

I think the same applies if you go to another province for more than 24 hours (and stay with friends/family and not in a hotel). Personally, I've never bothered with that and not sure how it could be enforced. As for hotels, my wife usually books it and they have never asked for my name to do the TM30. 

[OJAS]

12 minutes ago, terminatorchiangmai said:

Did this at Chiang mai immigration when i came back from a long weekend on Koh Samed .

They where asking me what do you want us to do ?

Only needed if you have a new arrival / departure card is what to told me,.

Looks like every officer and office has its own rules.

They should be making it clear for everyone, same rules apply everywhere.

But I do gather that Chiang Mai are pedantic in the sense that they insist on a fresh TM30 being filed each time one returns to LOS from a trip to foreign pastures, even to the same address as before. Ditto Jomtien.

 

The OP might therefore wish to check whether Chumpon are similarly pedantic in this regard, particularly if he has any imminent plans for foreign travel.

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Another database that is not the main one that your record is kept in. A TM30 report is not shown in it.

There is only the old and the new database systems.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

Just now, DavisH said:

I think the same applies if you go to another province for more than 24 hours (and stay with friends/family and not in a hotel). Personally, I've never bothered with that and not sure how it could be enforced. As for hotels, my wife usually books it and they have never asked for my name to do the TM30. 

That is not he same reporting nor the same section of the immigration act. It is one that is not enforced since there is no way it could be enforced. 

There are couple of rogue offices that have fined people based upon that section for not doing a TM30 report.

[ubonjoe]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

There is only the old and the new database systems.

 

 

I think somebody has given you some bogus information. Immigration certainly has more than one database that info is stored in.

 

[JackThompson]

The confusion lies, to a great extent, with how some offices have published material which does a "cut and paste" job of the TM-28 and TM-30 reporting requirements.  This allows them to justify fining foreigners for not filing TM-30s, though such reports should be the landlord's responsibility.  The "must report yourself" requirement was for the TM-28 form, which is not being used - but the wording in that is used to justify blaming the foreigner for the absence of a TM-30. 

 

Worse still, the "how long you have been gone" and "were out of the country or not" - whether or not a new TM-30 is needed - have varied over-time at the same office.

 

Bottom line, do whatever your local-office wants you to do.  If they are happy, you can be happy, too.

 

Note: It may be overkill for this at most offices, but signed copies of the landlord's ID-card, his tabien-bahn, and the tabien-bahn of the place where you are living (if different from where the landlord lives) can be handy to have in your files.  I would suggest anyone coming here to stay longer-term request these as part of renting a new place to live, and don't rent the place if the landlord won't supply all of them.  Maybe "coming to an immigration office near you" or maybe not - but always nice to be prepared.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think somebody has given you some bogus information. Immigration certainly has more than one database that info is stored in.

 

The new system introduced approx. 4 years ago allows Immigration to track all foreigners.

I've seen my personal file in detail. They know if and when I leave the Country and when I return, if a TM30 was filed at a hotel and much more. The new system has allowed them to build up dossiers on each individual and our movements are traceable.

 

Recently a local expat who foolishly lent 500,000 baht to another expat several months ago, who then vanished, didn't reply to e-mails or text messages, wanted to trace him. I told him to firstly make a Police report, which he did.

The Police immediately escorted him to the local Immigration office where within a couple of minutes they were able to establish the other expat was now registered in Mukdahan and even supplied his address.

 

It's an integrated system used locally or nationally.

[ubonjoe]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

The new system introduced approx. 4 years ago allows Immigration to track all foreigners.

I've seen my personal file in detail. They know if and when I leave the Country and when I return, if a TM30 was filed at a hotel and much more. The new system has allowed them to build up dossiers on each individual and our movements are traceable.

 

Perhaps after doing a few extra keystrokes that can pull up the information. Just entering your passport number and/or TM6 number does not show everything.

They can do a request to find all the information but they do not see it every time.

[perthperson]

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Recently a local expat who foolishly lent 500,000 baht to another expat several months ago

 

An interesting anecdote. Most would regard (including the police) such a matter to be 'civil' in nature. 

[Denim]

1 hour ago, perthperson said:

Not true !   All hotels and guest houses are required to notify immigration of their foreign guests arrival - 

Except short time hotels where they go out of the way to protect your anonymity.

[Tanoshi]

25 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The confusion lies, to a great extent, with how some offices have published material which does a "cut and paste" job of the TM-28 and TM-30 reporting requirements.  This allows them to justify fining foreigners for not filing TM-30s, though such reports should be the landlord's responsibility.  The "must report yourself" requirement was for the TM-28 form, which is not being used - but the wording in that is used to justify blaming the foreigner for the absence of a TM-30. 

 

It's the person designated as the House Master who is responsible to file the TM30.

In certain situations this could be the foreigner.

 

The House Master is defined as;

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.
Immigration Act BE 2522.pdf

[perthperson]

Just now, Denim said:

Except short time hotels where they go out of the way to protect your anonymity.

I bow to your superior knowledge of such hotels  -----

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Denim said:

Except short time hotels where they go out of the way to protect your anonymity.

They go out of their way to protect your anonymity because their not registered, or just to lazy to comply.

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, perthperson said:

An interesting anecdote. Most would regard (including the police) such a matter to be 'civil' in nature. 

Many things which are "civil" in Western law are "criminal" in Thai law.  Business owners should be especially aware of this. 

[JackThompson]

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's the person designated as the House Master who is responsible to file the TM30.

In certain situations this could be the foreigner.

 

The House Master is defined as;

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.
Immigration Act BE 2522.pdf

I agree - but the issue is what the office "does in practice" when you want something, like an extension.  I cannot find a copy of the pamphlet some immigration-offices were using, which mixes in TM-28 language. 

I report every time, and they always accepted my reports, even if only gone from my residence for 3 days.  But, again, the only thing that counts is the current policy at the OP's office - which is subject to change at any time.

[terminatorchiangmai]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

But I do gather that Chiang Mai are pedantic in the sense that they insist on a fresh TM30 being filed each time one returns to LOS from a trip to foreign pastures, even to the same address as before. Ditto Jomtien.

 

The OP might therefore wish to check whether Chumpon are similarly pedantic in this regard, particularly if he has any imminent plans for foreign travel.

 Actually , they are ok if you just come with your passport and old tm 30 slip for an update.

[Briggsy]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is just a office being very pedant about TM30 reporting. Unless you change your permanent residence there is no requirement to do a new one after staying in hotel because they reported you.

Most offices would not go into a special database for TM30 reporting to find out you stayed in a hotel.

Sri Racha immigration knew I had stayed in a hotel in Nakhon Phanom for one night. So, they can join the "pedantic" offices.

[Rama]

Part of the confusion is that if you 'home ' address is a service apartment or other accommodation that has several foreigners staying, they report on a regular basis. If you are staying in a private home with no regular reporting, then the owner has to report it. The onus is on the owner of the property as they can be fined. In practice, most of the larger offices with many foreigners do not do; smaller offices will periodically enforce as they are following the rules more rigorously. 

[Tanoshi]

50 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I agree - but the issue is what the office "does in practice" when you want something, like an extension.  I cannot find a copy of the pamphlet some immigration-offices were using, which mixes in TM-28 language. 

I report every time, and they always accepted my reports, even if only gone from my residence for 3 days.  But, again, the only thing that counts is the current policy at the OP's office - which is subject to change at any time.

I think it's a fair assumption to state that almost every office requires a TM30 filing if you move to a new permanent address.

Some require a new TM30 filing if you leave and re-enter the Country.

Not seen any reports of refiling if you return home after staying in temporary residence within Thailand.

 

The law hasn't changed for a long time, it's just down to local offices what parts they choose to enforce.

[chuang]

If travelling within provinces suggest you use your wife/GF  ID to check in....so save you the trouble of TM30..different IMM officer says different rules....