Brexit's effect on UK 'will be profound and unpredictable', lawmakers say

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Brexit's effect on UK 'will be profound and unpredictable', lawmakers say

 

FILE PHOTO: An EU flag flies above Parliament Square during a Unite for Europe march, in London, Britain March 25, 2017. REUTERS/Peter Nicholls/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Brexit poses a fundamental challenge to the future of the United Kingdom by removing the European Union law that has helped to bind it together, a committee of lawmakers from the British parliament's upper house said on Wednesday.

 

Last year's vote to leave the EU has highlighted tensions among the United Kingdom's four constituent nations: England and Wales voted to leave, Scotland and Northern Ireland to remain.

 

It has prompted renewed calls from Scottish nationalists for a vote on independence, and members of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish governments have complained the national government has not involved them enough its Brexit negotiation preparations.

 

"Brexit's impact on the future of the United Kingdom will be profound and unpredictable. At the moment, the internal politics are pretty toxic," said Michael Jay, a member of the Lords EU committee and former head of Britain's diplomatic service.

 

The committee's report "Brexit: devolution", said the supremacy of EU law and its interpretation by the EU's Court of Justice have helped ensure consistency of legal and regulatory standards across the United Kingdom's internal market.

 

"Brexit thus presents fundamental constitutional challenges to the United Kingdom as a whole," the report said. It called on the government to set aside party politics and adjust its Brexit approach to accommodate the needs of the different regions.

 

It also said Brexit would lead to a significant increase in powers and responsibilities for local institutions in the three devolved nations, in areas such as fisheries and agriculture. Any attempt at a "power grab" by either side would only add to instability, it said.

 

Scotland's governing Scottish National Party has threatened to try to block the progress of key legislation that will sever legal ties with the EU unless the government does more to account for Scotland's interests in Brexit.

 

The Lords' report said that if the UK-wide Brexit agreement does not adequately reflect Scotland's needs, a strong political and economic case can be made for making differentiated arrangements for Scotland.

 

"The UK Government must respect the devolved institutions. It's not enough saying it's listening to them, it's actually got to take account of what they say and adjust its approach to accommodate their specific needs," Jay said.

 

"Equally, the devolved administrations must work with, not against, the UK government to get the best Brexit for the whole of the UK."

 

(Reporting by Kylie MacLellan, editing by Larry King)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-19

[wombat]

since when have lawmakers been economists ?

 

[boomerangutang]

                             I'm not British, but have been against Brexit all along.  EU is stronger as a plurality than it is in pieces.  If there are problems with EU administration, then try fixing those problems.   The US has problems, but states aren't realistically threatening to split from the union.  Ok, I guess using the US as a comparison, isn't the best tactic.

 

                     But, with China becoming a large economic power, and hoping to extend its influence in other ways, it's incumbent for EU to be a bulwark.  The US is somewhat of a balancing power in ww affairs, but its respect quotient is lessening with Trump's people infecting its top echelons.   

[JHolmesJr]

Dismantle the damn thing already…was a stupid idea from the start…..made things more expensive than ever.

[phantomfiddler]

Something wrong here ! If the effects are unpredictable then how can one say they will be profound ? Like saying "I definitely think I may go into Bangkok tomorrow" :)

[terryw]

The UK government has repeatedly said that the Devolved governments will get control over fishing, agriculture and other areas of the economy controlled by the EU.

 

With regard to the Supremacy of EU law, are they seriously suggesting that the oldest major democracy in the World is incapable of replacing these laws with UK or Scottish laws?

 

This seems to be another example of Remoaners saying that leaving the EU will be a disaster because we will no longer be controlled by EU laws.

 

 

[hawker9000]

'More like Brexit will have a profound and unpredictable effect on the EU...

 

[boomerangutang]

Norway and Switzerland aren't members of the EU.   How are they faring compared to countries which are members? 

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Norway and Switzerland aren't members of the EU.   How are they faring compared to countries which are members? 

They are members in all but name. EEA and EFTA as you know

[melvinmelvin]

switzerland is not in EEA (but in EFTA - but that is probably not significant when it comes to the EU-Switzerland deal)

 

switzerland and EU/EC negotiate and make deals on an issue by issue basis (more or less),

don't think the EC is very happy with this,

this way of working consumes a LOT of time and manhours

 

[alant]

For centuries before joining the common market the UK was able to enact its own laws. I feel it is a skill that could be re learnt.

[alant]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

                             I'm not British, but have been against Brexit all along.  EU is stronger as a plurality than it is in pieces.  If there are problems with EU administration, then try fixing those problems.   The US has problems, but states aren't realistically threatening to split from the union.  Ok, I guess using the US as a comparison, isn't the best tactic.

 

                     But, with China becoming a large economic power, and hoping to extend its influence in other ways, it's incumbent for EU to be a bulwark.  The US is somewhat of a balancing power in ww affairs, but its respect quotient is lessening with Trump's people infecting its top echelons.   

I would not agree, I can not find an organisation that facilitates such social strife and economic chaos as is being suffered in certain EU member states and continues to persecute the citizens of such states by insisting on economic actions that have had no effect in reducing the debt as being a strong and responsible union.

[Laughing Gravy]

Another crystal ball doom prediction. I started reading the article and the second word poses, once again shows that it is someone's opinion and not fact. How on earth will the UK survive without the EU. well as Singapore, Japan and New Zealand they do perfectly fine, amongst other countries. The EU is becoming desperate. They will be missing their annual extortionate 'cough up' and other countries will see that you can do well away from the EU tyranny.

No doubt more articles will becoming on how the UK will become isolated and go back in time.

 

Articles like this are tedious and people can see through the BS.

[Jonnapat]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Dismantle the damn thing already…was a stupid idea from the start…..made things more expensive than ever.

The original idea was for a united Europè after 2 world wars and in this it has succeeded. Britain's problem is,and always has been that we somehow think we're superior to other nations. The downsides of Brexit will be apparent long after my demise especially as the people in charge of the operation are basically clueless as there was never a strategy for Brexit in the first place. As for making things more expensive, this is exactly what Brexit will end up doing as can already be seen.

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

They are members in all but name. EEA and EFTA as you know

Plus Norway has all that oil, and Switzerland is home to banks where rich people from all over the world keep their money. When it became clear that Norway had vast oil reserves, they set up some kind of fund to save money for later. Now there is so much money in that fund that every Norwegian is basically a millionaire. And Switzerland is teeming with millionaires and billionaires who come to visit their money every weekend.

[tomacht8]

The problem described here relates to the necessary reorganization of structural programs for "weak" regions in the UK.

In the EC Treaty, the Member States have set themselves the objective of "reducing the differences in the development of the various regions and the backwardness of the most disadvantaged areas".

There are a lot of EU funding and structural programs that have also taken place in selected areas within the UK. And these regions have benefited greatly from EU membership.
The aids now fall with a Brexit away and must be reorganized.
There will surely be tensions and distribution battles.

A Brexit is not only the checkout from the EU, but also implies a reorganization of these subsidies within the UK.
This problem is currently still not seen or underestimated.

How does the UK intend to continue the following existing EU programs?:

 

EU programs for education and youth

Lifelong learning, youth programs and worldwide cooperation

Europe for citizens

Support for civil society

Structural funds

Funding programs for EU regional policy

Research and technological development: Horizon 2020

Information and contacts for the promotion of science in the EU

Media and culture

EU funding for film, culture and creative industries

Business and innovation

Promotion programs for businesses and innovation

Employment, social affairs, equality

Promotion opportunities for a social Europe

Agriculture and fisheries

Subsidies for farmers, rural areas and fisheries

Subsidies for the transport sector

Marco Polo II and other funding options

Funding in the field of environment

LIFE - Program for the Environment and Climate Policy (2014-2020)

 

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by tomacht8

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Plus Norway has all that oil, and Switzerland is home to banks where rich people from all over the world keep their money. When it became clear that Norway had vast oil reserves, they set up some kind of fund to save money for later. Now there is so much money in that fund that every Norwegian is basically a millionaire. And Switzerland is teeming with millionaires and billionaires who come to visit their money every weekend.

I wish we had banks and oil ?

[puck2]

The (split) UK government is well prepared for the Brexit - have a look at the right side

[the guest]

The UK will find out just how 'Un-great' it really is without the EU.

[tomacht8]

4 minutes ago, puck2 said:

The (split) UK government is well prepared for the Brexit - have a look at the right side

 Come on, after all, one has brought a calendar to the meeting. LOL

[Laughing Gravy]

10 minutes ago, puck2 said:

The (split) UK government is well prepared for the Brexit - have a look at the right side

It depends how you look at it. I assume you are hinting that having a big folder of paper which are wants means you are prepared. It could easily be argued that the Brexit team have all they need to say. like its this way or we walk. The photo does give some good options for 'speech bubbles' though.  Mine would be is "this is how much we want you to pay" with DD saying "this is how much you are getting". LOL

 

Possibly worth another thread alone.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[Laughing Gravy]

7 minutes ago, the guest said:

The UK will find out just how 'Un-great' it really is without the EU.

Really. Is the EU some magical amazing entity that if you are not in the club "you don't exist'. So where is your evidence and research for this statement?

[tomacht8]

9 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It depends how you look at it. I assume you are hinting that having a big folder of paper which are wants means you are prepared. It could easily be argued that the Brexit team have all they need to say. like its this way or we walk. The photo does give some good options for 'speech bubbles' though.  Mine would be is "this is how much we want you to pay" with DD saying "this is how much you are getting". LOL

 

Possibly worth another thread alone.

You can turn and twist it as you want, the Brexiters still have until today no plan.

[puck2]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It depends how you look at it. I assume you are hinting that having a big folder of paper which are wants means you are prepared. It could easily be argued that the Brexit team have all they need to say. like its this way or we walk. The photo does give some good options for 'speech bubbles' though.  Mine would be is "this is how much we want you to pay" with DD saying "this is how much you are getting". LOL

 

Possibly worth another thread alone.

Brexit is not only about paying (concerning the UK), but also about losing a lot. 

I.e. Foreign banks in London cannot wait another 18 months - until the final decision. The missing UK policy is precarious for them. Therefore they start already moving their offices to the EU continent or maybe Dublin. But Northern Ireland and Ireland is another Brexit problem for the UK. ... the list goes on.

[tomacht8]

8 minutes ago, puck2 said:

Brexit is not only about paying (concerning the UK), but also about losing a lot. 

I.e. Foreign banks in London cannot wait another 18 months - until the final decision. The missing UK policy is precarious for them. Therefore they start already moving their offices to the EU continent or maybe Dublin. But Northern Ireland and Ireland is another Brexit problem for the UK. ... the list goes on.

The Japanese investment bank Nomura has selected itself as a future EU location Frankfurt, because of the planned Brexit. In order to be able to offer all services within the EU after the departure of Great Britain from the Community, the bank applied for a license for a new subsidiary on the Main as Nomura communicated.

[boomerangutang]

3 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

Something wrong here ! If the effects are unpredictable then how can one say they will be profound ? Like saying "I definitely think I may go into Bangkok tomorrow" :)

I would surmise you're going to Bangkok tomorrow.

 

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

Plus Norway has all that oil, and Switzerland is home to banks where rich people from all over the world keep their money. When it became clear that Norway had vast oil reserves, they set up some kind of fund to save money for later. Now there is so much money in that fund that every Norwegian is basically a millionaire. And Switzerland is teeming with millionaires and billionaires who come to visit their money every weekend.

Norway and Switzerland are well-run countries.  I can't say the same for most other countries.  Those two know how to put money in the bank.  In the US, the game is how to borrow as much money as possible.  Paying back is not a concern: either default, or delay forever.

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

If there are problems with EU administration, then try fixing those problems.

Several unsuccessful attempts to this end have already been made (most recently with Cameron's futile attempts pre-Referendum). Unfortunately those who lead the EU have made it clear that they have absolutely no interest in the fundamental reform which is clearly needed for its continued existence but instead cling to the outdated and idealistic notion of establishing an artificial USSR-style superstate across the European continent - and we all know what happened to that particular superstate!

 

The sooner that this dinosaur relic of the 20th Century, which appears to be completely oblivious to the realities of life in the 21st Century, is put out of its (and our) misery, therefore, the better, I think!

[rufanuf]

3 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

The original idea was for a united Europè after 2 world wars and in this it has succeeded. Britain's problem is,and always has been that we somehow think we're superior to other nations. The downsides of Brexit will be apparent long after my demise especially as the people in charge of the operation are basically clueless as there was never a strategy for Brexit in the first place. As for making things more expensive, this is exactly what Brexit will end up doing as can already be seen.

Who says? After the devastation of WWI and II its highly unlikely European nations would be going to war anytime soon after the end of the last one. Absolutely nothing to do with the EU, but of course they love to take the credit! (have to be seen to have accomplished something)  On the contrary, it will likely be the EU that ends up once again triggering protectionism and friction between the nations of Europe, as is already evident.And it could end in military threats.

 

In purely political terms there NO downside to BREXIT, which wasn't already baked into the cake by the formation of the EU. The EU has basically prepared most of Europe for its new found poverty relative to the rest of the world, by creating a good size pool of cheap labour for big corporates, which in turn are protected from withing the EU by the red tape it creates. The poverty they created would have come our way as Europeans anyway in the face of the rise of the East. The EU itself is nothing more than a playground for political power mongers, idiots and trouble makers.

Edited July 19, 2017 by rufanuf

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Dismantle the damn thing already…was a stupid idea from the start…..made things more expensive than ever.

IMO there's no doubt that prices increased after joining the EEC.  Mainly as a result of CAP policies (plus expanded overpaid bureaucracy to support.....) and also 'cos suppliers took full advantage of the opportunity to increase prices - in the same way they did so when the UK converted to decimalisation.....

 

But getting back on topic - its entirely predictable that the effect of a possible brexit is unpredictable !

Edited July 19, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Several unsuccessful attempts to this end have already been made (most recently with Cameron's futile attempts pre-Referendum). Unfortunately those who lead the EU have made it clear that they have absolutely no interest in the fundamental reform which is clearly needed for its continued existence but instead cling to the outdated and idealistic notion of establishing an artificial USSR-style superstate across the European continent - and we all know what happened to that particular superstate!

 

The sooner that this dinosaur relic of the 20th Century, which appears to be completely oblivious to the realities of life in the 21st Century, is put out of its (and our) misery, therefore, the better, I think!

"Several unsuccessful attempts to this end have already been made (most recently with Cameron's futile attempts pre-Referendum). Unfortunately those who lead the EU have made it clear that they have absolutely no interest in the fundamental reform which is clearly needed for its continued existence but instead cling to the outdated and idealistic notion of establishing an artificial USSR-style superstate across the European continent - and we all know what happened to that particular superstate!"

 

Agree entirely with your first paragraph quoted above.

 

If only the EU was capable of reforming itself, it would be far more popular.  Unfortunately its not capable of doing so, as those involved are more/only interested in personal wealth and power .