The politics and perils of rice-pledging scheme and impact of Yingluck case

[AGareth2]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

He is probably one of those other posters.. been a lot of new ones that come and go.. always then the Shin money is threatened do these people pop up trying to influence opinion... i wonder why.

do you think they are being paid from Dubai?

or just hold a different opinion?

 

[robblok]

Just now, 473geo said:

You mean akin to those who heavily criticise previous flooding but are notably struck dumb when 19 provinces are underwater

People are not usually slow to recognise imbalance, excepting a few regulars on this thread who consistently deliver it 

You should look better I have posted in plenty of the flooding topics. I was way in well before you in many of them.

I am talking about political posters who start off only in political threads always supporting the Thaksin side and always at times when the money of the shins gets threatened. I might not like your views but at least I know your living in Thailand and don't post for a job.

[halloween]

Just now, 473geo said:

You mean akin to those who heavily criticise previous flooding but are notably struck dumb when 19 provinces are underwater

People are not usually slow to recognise imbalance, excepting a few regulars on this thread who consistently deliver it 

The criticism was of political interference in the water management system which exacerbated the flooding. But yes akin to those distort facts to take a cheap shot.

[AGareth2]

25 minutes ago, halloween said:

they were completely innocent and the charges against them are politically motivated harassment

getting there

well done

[robblok]

Just now, AGareth2 said:

do you think they are being paid from Dubai?

or just hold a different opinion?

 

I don't care if people hold an other opinion that is not a problem.. i do find it strange when newbie posters don't post in anything else as Thaksin topics (on an expat forum where most post in other stuff too. look at yourself look at 473geo and others). I can't prove what your saying I can even get in trouble by just mentioning what I think.

 

But there have been 4-5 new posters all the same modus operandi.. only posting in political topics.. deflecting things and then later totally dissapearing. 

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

do you think they are being paid from Dubai?

or just hold a different opinion?

 

It really is hard to tell. But when you have posters who refuse to recognise any fault with the Shinawatras, it leads to justified suspicion.

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

I don't care if people hold an other opinion that is not a problem.. i do find it strange when newbie posters don't post in anything else as Thaksin topics (on an expat forum where most post in other stuff too. look at yourself look at 473geo and others). I can't prove what your saying I can even get in trouble by just mentioning what I think.

 

But there have been 4-5 new posters all the same modus operandi.. only posting in political topics.. deflecting things and then later totally dissapearing. 

aliens?

[halloween]

3 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

getting there

well done

" Except the evidence of criminality is plain and obvious. "  Perhaps you are unable, for some reason to see what is clear.

[473geo]

13 minutes ago, halloween said:

The criticism was of political interference in the water management system which exacerbated the flooding. But yes akin to those distort facts to take a cheap shot.

And here was I thinking a major cause of flooding is the downpours from above,  but I guess that rules out any chance of political gain so not plausible in  your view.

Oh 473geo posts across many topics on the forum, perhaps you should get out of your rut and explore, you guys are guilty of projecting your own failings onto others Mick.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by 473geo
clarity

[trogers]

1 hour ago, Russbert said:

Vilification of politicians moves you further from a solution than towards it. If it's not politicians spearheading reforms, then who? 

One wonders if politicians move you forward or away from solutions. Look at the UK and US today.

 

Things that power and money do to a person...

Edited July 30, 2017 by trogers

[halloween]

8 minutes ago, 473geo said:

And here was I thinking a major cause of flooding is the downpours from above,  but I guess that rules out any chance of political gain so not plausible in  your view.

Oh 473geo posts across many topics on the forum, perhaps you should get out of your rut and explore, you guys are guilty of projecting your own failings onto others Mick.

 

 

Again, rain causes flooding, criticism was of political interference that exacerbated it. Ignoring facts, or posting distortions, doesn't alter the truth.

[473geo]

3 minutes ago, halloween said:

Again, rain causes flooding, criticism was of political interference that exacerbated it. Ignoring facts, or posting distortions, doesn't alter the truth.

Flooding, more rain than expected, drought less rain than expected.

Exacerbated - by inaction and failure to implement adequate control measures for water across a period of years - not necessarily the total responsibility of the incumbent government = fact

 

You see Mick I understand the current government is doing all in it's power to overcome the current disaster caused by an unusual amount of rain. I see PM insisting on an upgraded warning system, I accept nature can be an uncontrollable beast. But then Mick, I have no axe to grind!

[halloween]

1 minute ago, 473geo said:

Flooding, more rain than expected, drought less rain than expected.

Exacerbated - by inaction and failure to implement adequate control measures for water across a period of years - not necessarily the total responsibility of the incumbent government = fact

 

You see Mick I understand the current government is doing all in it's power to overcome the current disaster caused by an unusual amount of rain. I see PM insisting on an upgraded warning system, I accept nature can be an uncontrollable beast. But then Mick, I have no axe to grind!

Ah the old red trick of changing definitions. At least it's not in reference to a crime this time.

Stopping the release from lower dams to mitigate the effects of a known large volume of water moving downstream was a political decision. As was dumping the dams just before a drought.

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Flooding, more rain than expected, drought less rain than expected.

Exacerbated - by inaction and failure to implement adequate control measures for water across a period of years - not necessarily the total responsibility of the incumbent government = fact

 

You see Mick I understand the current government is doing all in it's power to overcome the current disaster caused by an unusual amount of rain. I see PM insisting on an upgraded warning system, I accept nature can be an uncontrollable beast. But then Mick, I have no axe to grind!

You should read more about the flooding, your right rain caused it but it was made a lot worse because they did not open the dams before.. (to safe the rice.. been articles about that i can link later). Then the dams became at critical levels.. and they had to open them adding to an already bad flood. 

 

The current goverment now is constantly releasing water from the dams to make sure they wont be FORCED to release it at a even worse time. 

 

November 11, 2011
“Decision to delay the release of water from the country's major dams had been made by the government”
('so that farmers could harvest their crops first')
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/aec/30169695

Edited July 30, 2017 by robblok

[candide]

51 minutes ago, robblok said:

You should look better I have posted in plenty of the flooding topics. I was way in well before you in many of them.

I am talking about political posters who start off only in political threads always supporting the Thaksin side and always at times when the money of the shins gets threatened. I might not like your views but at least I know your living in Thailand and don't post for a job.

Come on Rob, this forum has absolutely no influence on public opinion! And That's probably the reason why we are still allowed to debate.

[473geo]

You've missed the point again guys and you have begun yet another loop of discussion that is not productive, your willingness to revisit old theories and circular discussions is admirable  it is of little value in the current debate surrounding posting.

 

I am only too pleased the current government has learnt from the past, and, releasing water to minimise the damage, by the same token I hope there is not excessive rain, and if there is, and further flooding proves inevitable I will not be beating a path to the governments door to whinge and complain! Rather assisting in a practical manner is more appropriate, as was witnessed happening in the rural areas sending water and food to Bangkok through the previous flooding disaster.

 

[robblok]

Just now, candide said:

Come on Rob, this forum has absolutely no influence on public opinion! And That's probably the reason why we are still allowed to debate.

That is a good point mate, i still find these posters real surprising.  We had them here before too one moment they were  here next they were gone. If i were to look in your posts I am sure I can find plenty non political ones and you certainly did not start with them.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, 473geo said:

You've missed the point again guys and you have begun yet another loop of discussion that is not productive, your willingness to revisit old theories and circular discussions is admirable  it is of little value in the current debate surrounding posting.

 

I am only too pleased the current government has learnt from the past, and, releasing water to minimise the damage, by the same token I hope there is not excessive rain, and if there is, and further flooding proves inevitable I will not be beating a path to the governments door to whinge and complain! Rather assisting in a practical manner is more appropriate, as was witnessed happening in the rural areas sending water and food to Bangkok through the previous flooding disaster.

 

473geo,

 

Dont get me wrong here it was not about theories.. it was true that it made it worse that is why I am happy they learned.. I am also real curious to know what has been done by YL and Junta in the years past 2011.

 

Maybe its better to discuss this in a flooding topic. I have made some comments there already about how I don't understand that certain dams always seem to break and never seem to be repaired properly. I made a comment about a big sluice here near me that was started ages ago.. then stopped and now i see some work on it. I am just wondering why the local idiots in charge don't get jailed for (i presume) pocketing money. Because these projects should have been finished ages ago

 

Also I don't worry too much about the Isarn water.. it won't reach BKK.. (or I am totally wrong its known to happen). But looking at the map I don't see the rivers that drain it go to BKK ?

[473geo]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

473geo,

 

Dont get me wrong here it was not about theories.. it was true that it made it worse that is why I am happy they learned.. I am also real curious to know what has been done by YL and Junta in the years past 2011.

 

Maybe its better to discuss this in a flooding topic. I have made some comments there already about how I don't understand that certain dams always seem to break and never seem to be repaired properly. I made a comment about a big sluice here near me that was started ages ago.. then stopped and now i see some work on it. I am just wondering why the local idiots in charge don't get jailed for (i presume) pocketing money. Because these projects should have been finished ages ago

 

Also I don't worry too much about the Isarn water.. it won't reach BKK.. (or I am totally wrong its known to happen). But looking at the map I don't see the rivers that drain it go to BKK ?

Here is my point Rob

The excessive rain is currently causing chaos in the north east, I too doubt it will reach Bangkok

However next year it may fall further north in the Chiang Mai area and flow down on Bangkok

Weather is still unpredictable and an unknown quantity, Thailand suffers from one area in drought another flooded on many occasions.

Hundreds of years of government and still no solution....yet people will seek out a way to blame the governments they choose.

I was all for the  additional dam and the tunnelling project....what happened? I don't know? but there are times when the interests of the few have to sacrificed for the many. Thailand is full of agricultural potential and a supportive water storage system and irrigation project could well cement it's future in the global food supply chain. 

As you say enough on flooding I 'divert' the thread - I wish I could divert water as easily 

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by 473geo
clarity

[hansnl]

7 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Any government involvement in trade is prone to poor management and corruption.

Reliance on government leads to certain and swift failure. 

And reliance on business and trade is a guarantee for success?

With that I mean for all involved, not only the businessmen and banks?

If governments are involved, greed rears it's head, if businesses are involved greed rears it's head also.

[biggles45]

"of alleged negligence in managing her government’s controversial rice-pledging scheme,"

 

I am confused, doesn't this apply to most of the past Thai governments. They seem to make negligence and mis-management an art form so why just her ? 

[yellowboat]

8 minutes ago, hansnl said:

And reliance on business and trade is a guarantee for success?

With that I mean for all involved, not only the businessmen and banks?

If governments are involved, greed rears it's head, if businesses are involved greed rears it's head also.

If a business acts with greed, it can be replaced with another, competing business.  Sadly governments cannot be replaced in most places excluding Thailand, but we all know what happens then. 

[Remus1830]

11 hours ago, Russbert said:

Universal Health Care.

OTOP

School decentralisation

Microcredit

 

Can you give a list of reforms the military have done in three years that you are proud of?

Yes they are spending the public's money on much needed submarines and I am sure much more military equipment and guns for police much better than spending money on poor farmers.