WP extenaion after expiry within country with same employer

[Xpat253]

Hi

I am seeking urgent help on a very miserable situation that I am in, due to fact that my wp & non-b sponsor company failed to extend my work permit before expiry. But my non-b and non-o for family visa (one year extension) are still valid.

I am still under same sponsor for next year but now my sponsor saying i need to fly out with family to get new visa and i have to bear all the flight cost and overstay cost that is huge because my home country return flight is almost 6000usd with family plus overstay of 3 weeks for whole family on top of it.

Not only that they say after flying out with family, only i have to come back agin on a new non-b while my family stay overseas untill i get wp here in thailand and i have to bear all the flight cost and overstay cost.

Reason: My sponsor company says all visa also expired when my wp expired.

so 500thb X all family members / day charge. If mutilply with 3 weeks it becomes a big amount in thb too.

 

Plus i cannot work and no salary for last 3 weeks and they are pushing me to bear the cost on top of it. 

 

I am in deep trouble due to this sponsor because i cannot leave my wife with 2 kids outside alone overseas because i already relocated to thailand last year with my family.

All this happened because they didn't expire WP on time.

 

My question: 

Is there any possible way that i can request ministry to labor or any govt body to extend my WP within country so that i dont have to bear the financial and family relocation buden of flying out and coming back alone.

If this becomes possible then my non-b and family non-o are still valid for one more month, which i can get it extended before expiry next month.

 

I am seeking advice based on the situation described, if you want to dig out why my company didn't extend on time or why same sponsor next year if i feel trouble then it'll be too long story for no benifits. 

 

Every passing day is adding overstay cost without work / salary.

 

 

 

 

[blackcab]

I really would suggest you go to the ministry of labour in person and ask them. A lot is riding on the correct answer.

 

The MOL are normally very helpful and they help if they can.

 

A frank question: Does your employer really want to continue employing you?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Xpat253 said:

...my home country return flight is almost 6000usd with family plus overstay of 3 weeks for whole family on top of it.  Not only that they say after flying out with family, only i have to come back agin on a new non-b while my family stay overseas untill i get wp here in thailand and i have to bear all the flight cost and overstay cost.

Depending on your passport country, and if your sponsor has your paperwork ready - can you get your Non-B from a nearby consulate?  Maybe Vientiane or Penang?  If their paperwork is ready, the time to get a visa and work-permit could be small. 

 

Also - not sure if you could just fly out without mentioning your work-permit on exit, since the dates of permit-of-stay on your passports are OK.  You may still have to deal with this later, if the date of your last work-permit expiry comes up at immigration as you are extending your next Non-B (maybe it won't), but - per my understanding - the IOs at the airport are not interested in your work-permit (on departure, at least).

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, Xpat253 said:

I am seeking urgent help on a very miserable situation that I am in, due to fact that my wp & non-b sponsor company failed to extend my work permit before expiry. But my non-b and non-o for family visa (one year extension) are still valid.

Unless somebody cancels the extensions at immigration they are still valid.

Get your employer to apply for your new work permit as soon as possible.

[Xpat253]

They say that i have to fly out to get a new nonb from the biginning as i did first time last year. And before flying out they say i have to get all wp and visa cancelled in immigration and pay over stay.

My question is still same, is it possible to extend work permit within country without flying out???

 

[Xpat253]

9 hours ago, blackcab said:

A frank question: Does your employer really want to continue employing you?

Yes they have to, because my client want me so my company has to continue sponsoring me for next year.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Xpat253 said:

They say that i have to fly out to get a new nonb from the biginning as i did first time last year. And before flying out they say i have to get all wp and visa cancelled in immigration and pay over stay.

You would not be on an overstay. There is no automatic cancellation of the extension when the work permit expires. It would require a termination letter from your employer to cancel the extensions.

1 minute ago, Xpat253 said:

My question is still same, is it possible to extend work permit within country without flying out???

You can get your work permit extended without leaving the country to get a new non-b visa.

[Xpat253]

9 hours ago, blackcab said:

The MOL are normally very helpful and they help if they can.

Should i just go to reception desk and explain to everyone who kept asking or some specific dept or personals have authority to decide in my case, in this case i should look for them in MOL.

[Xpat253]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You can get your work permit extended without leaving the country to get a new non-b visa.

If this is possible, then my all problems would be solved. Can you please guid me how can i do this? Specially in the case when my company says there is no other legal way except leaving country.

[ubonjoe]

Just now, Xpat253 said:

If this is possible, then my all problems would be solved. Can you please guid me how can i do this? Specially in the case when my company says there is no other legal way except leaving country.

Apparently the company do not know a thing about work permits and extensions. Not sure what you can do to get around the problem other than getting assistance from a lawyer or agent.

[JackThompson]

55 minutes ago, Xpat253 said:

They say that i have to fly out to get a new nonb from the biginning as i did first time last year. And before flying out they say i have to get all wp and visa cancelled in immigration and pay over stay.

My question is still same, is it possible to extend work permit within country without flying out???

Has your company provided you with the documents needed to obtain a new work permit?

 

Ideally, you could renew your work-permit in-country.  In this case, paying an agent may be less expensive than flying your family out and back and obtaining new extensions for them and yourself. 

 

As UJ stated above, unless your company canceled your permit-of-stay with immigration, your extension-of-stay has not been invalidated.  Since your employer is telling you to "go to immigration and cancel..." - it appears they have not done this.  I would not wait until they do.  If your work-permit is expired, you do not need to do anything more to cancel it.

 

Leaving without a re-entry permit will cancel an extension-of-stay issued by immigration, so that can be done without paying any fines.  Therefore, if unable to renew your work permit in Thailand, simply leave with your family at the airport.

After leaving, you can get a new Non-B abroad with the paperwork supplied by your company.   You have not given your nationality, so I cannot say at what Thai-Consulates this may or may not be possible.

[anon789561]

you need to jump in your motor and get down to your local labor office speak to reception and tell them what is going on before you book any flights. i'm no wp/visa expert but I've had a few. I see no reason why you can't get your permit in country. speak to the labour department first and if you really still need to speak to a lawyer/agent. if what you are saying is correct, your sponsors are suggesting you waste a hell of a lot of time and money for no reason which is strange indeed.

[Xpat253]

23 hours ago, blackcab said:

I really would suggest you go to the ministry of labour in person and ask them. A lot is riding on the correct answer.

 

The MOL are normally very helpful and they help if they can.

The only thing I am worried about doing this is that MOL may hold mE for not having wp and still living in this country or start tracking my case with my employer which may piss off my sponsor to withdraw sponsorship adding fuel to fire.

 

[anon789561]

15 minutes ago, Xpat253 said:

The only thing I am worried about doing this is that MOL may hold mE for not having wp and still living in this country or start tracking my case with my employer which may piss off my sponsor to withdraw sponsorship adding fuel to fire.

 

I'd say you should go and see an agent/lawyer and get it all sorted

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, Xpat253 said:

The only thing I am worried about doing this is that MOL may hold mE for not having wp and still living in this country or start tracking my case with my employer which may piss off my sponsor to withdraw sponsorship adding fuel to fire.

 

 

The staff at the MOL have no interest in detaining you whatsoever. They are not police officers and it's not their job. Their concern is making sure applicant's work permits are in order. My experience has always been that the staff in the Bangkok office are helpful and also able to answer questions on the spot.

 

If you are really nervous get someone to go in and ask on your behalf while you wait downstairs. Bear in mind that a Thai speaker would be useful as it's not always easy for the staff to explain various Thai forms/procedures/bureaucracy in English. 

 

I really would urge you to get a Thai speaker to go and enquire on your behalf.

[scorecard]

23 hours ago, Xpat253 said:

Should i just go to reception desk and explain to everyone who kept asking or some specific dept or personals have authority to decide in my case, in this case i should look for them in MOL.

 

This is a good point. One of the initial reception desk ladies at Din Daeng is a dragon and doesn't listen to anything. The others often on the same desk are listeners and will try to get you to the correct officer, but it's quite possible their personal knowledge of the processes / rules are quite limited or zero.  

 

Given the above, for what it's worth, perhaps your should try to get to an officer to start your discussion.

 

At Din Daeng there are always senior Lab. ministry people walking around and many can speak some / good English and generally quite pleasant. Hit and miss but perhaps very politely approaching a couple of these folks could be worthwhile.

 

 

 

Here's an example of their flexibility, just recently - foreign professor has had WP issued by his Bangkok uni for many years. The renewal needs a specific document signed by the president of the uni. A week before renewal deadline date one of the clerical people got sick and the letter didn't go to presidents's office.

 

Professor was 2 days late to get to Din Daeng. The dean instructed that a senior lady from the uni. admin. go with the professor.

 

They got a Q number and then their number called.  Officer listened carefully then excused herself and came back a few minutes later with a pleasant senior (who spoke English) who asked for the details.  Quickly the senior told the desk officer to process the renewal and then bring the documents to her.

 

A wait of a few minutes and the senior lady reappeared, all signed and she personally took the professor and his colleagues to the cashier and explained to the cashier to do the final steps.  No extra fees or gifts asked for and none offered. 

[Xpat253]

56 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Din Daeng

All my previous wp and visa were done from "one stop chamchuri" office with a stamp of "one stop service" on my wp.

In this siruation which labour office should I go?

[Xpat253]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Din Daeng

Is it this place you are suggesting to go. Google link below

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ministry+of+Labour,+Krung+Thep+Maha+Nakhon,+จังหวัด+กรุงเทพมหานคร+10400,+Thailand/@13.7643577,100.5514053,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x30e29ebd8bc87a0f:0x7b3e1fd53f98ed5c?hl=en

 

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, Xpat253 said:

All my previous wp and visa were done from "one stop chamchuri" office with a stamp of "one stop service" on my wp.

In this siruation which labour office should I go?

That is where you should go. Just go to the work permit section.

[Xpat253]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is where you should go. Just go to the work permit section.

If I go there, do you think they can confiscate my wp right away and cancel it because work permit already expired? 

If they cancelled my wp and visas on spot and didn't even allow me to take my sponsor in confidence then i'll be even in bigger trouble. 

[tryasimight]

I have no idea....let us know how you get on.

[Xpat253]

If I manage to get new wp within country because my visa extension stamp is still not expired. In that situation;

 

Question: My local sponsor is saying that i have to get next one year multiple entry extension non-b and non-o visa on same day i get new wp. if they ask me sign any docs or forms i wouldn't know what papers/form are for visa and what for WP because all papers are in thai language. In this situation i am afraid they may want to proceed to next one year visa extension first and they may stamp cancel on my valid exiating visa my visa first which may incure overstay cost because at the time of visa cancellation new WP wouldn't be ready, they may still use my old expired wp to cancel the existing visa before stamping for next one year.

But if get new wp first then apply for new visa then overstay may not be valid.

 

 

Question:

do I need to renew non-b or non-o visa extension for next year on same day i get new wp,

or

i can also get extension anytime after new wp as long till next month before visa expiry date?

[Here2008]

4 hours ago, Xpat253 said:

i have to get next one year multiple entry extension non-b and non-o visa on same day i get new wp.

 

That makes absolutely no sense.  

 

As a matter of interest what is your Nationality? 

[blackcab]

On 02/08/2017 at 9:46 AM, Xpat253 said:

All my previous wp and visa were done from "one stop chamchuri" office with a stamp of "one stop service" on my wp.

In this siruation which labour office should I go?

As stated, you go to the One Stop at Chamchuri Square. The staff there are very nice and the service is friendly and efficient.

[blackcab]

7 hours ago, Xpat253 said:

If I manage to get new wp within country because my visa extension stamp is still not expired. In that situation;

 

Question: My local sponsor is saying that i have to get next one year multiple entry extension non-b and non-o visa on same day i get new wp. if they ask me sign any docs or forms i wouldn't know what papers/form are for visa and what for WP because all papers are in thai language. In this situation i am afraid they may want to proceed to next one year visa extension first and they may stamp cancel on my valid exiating visa my visa first which may incure overstay cost because at the time of visa cancellation new WP wouldn't be ready, they may still use my old expired wp to cancel the existing visa before stamping for next one year.

But if get new wp first then apply for new visa then overstay may not be valid.

 

 

Question:

do I need to renew non-b or non-o visa extension for next year on same day i get new wp,

or

i can also get extension anytime after new wp as long till next month before visa expiry date?

 

You seem to be one of life's worriers. The one stop service at Chamchuri Square will sort everything for you. Believe me, their ethos is not to create problems and throw up unnecessary hurdles.

 

The one stop service was created to give eligeable companies an easier ride with documenting their foreign employees.

 

Seriously, stop procrastinating, get yourself down there on Monday morning and get this sorted.

 

There is only so much good advice we can all give you. Ultimately it is you who must act.

[Xpat253]

10 hours ago, Xpat253 said:

If I manage to get new wp within country because my visa extension stamp is still not expired. In that situation;

 

Question: My local sponsor is saying that i have to get next one year multiple entry extension non-b and non-o visa on same day i get new wp. if they ask me sign any docs or forms i wouldn't know what papers/form are for visa and what for WP because all papers are in thai language. In this situation i am afraid they may want to proceed to next one year visa extension first and they may stamp cancel on my valid exiating visa my visa first which may incure overstay cost because at the time of visa cancellation new WP wouldn't be ready, they may still use my old expired wp to cancel the existing visa before stamping for next one year.

But if get new wp first then apply for new visa then overstay may not be valid.

 

 

Question:

do I need to renew non-b or non-o visa extension for next year on same day i get new wp,

or

i can also get extension anytime after new wp as long till next month before visa expiry date?

I visited onestop already and talked to WP staff and they were very nice people and seemed very kind and helpful. 

They said it is possible to extend within country.

 

The above quoted question which i asked was in context of overstay cost only.

My local sponsor still insisting that there will be an overstay cost and i must have to apply visa and wp at same day but my point is if get new WP first and extend visa after then overstay cost might not apply.

 

So that's why now i am seeking advice to know the rule about overstay ( me, my wife, 2 kids under 4 years).

 

 

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, Xpat253 said:

I visited onestop already and talked to WP staff and they were very nice people and seemed very kind and helpful. 

They said it is possible to extend within country.

 

The above quoted question which i asked was in context of overstay cost only.

Glad to hear onestop confirmed what UJ said earlier - you can extend in the country.

 

4 hours ago, Xpat253 said:

My local sponsor still insisting that there will be an overstay cost and i must have to apply visa and wp at same day but my point is if get new WP first and extend visa after then overstay cost might not apply.

So that's why now i am seeking advice to know the rule about overstay ( me, my wife, 2 kids under 4 years).

You need the documents to renew your work-permit - so you can do it yourself.   Is your employer refusing to provide these to you?  

Your employer would have to provide these to you to get a visa out of the country, so why not give them to you now?

As stated before, unless and until your employer cancels your extension-of-stay with immigration, you and your family can leave the country without overstay charges.   Also, young-children do not pay overstay charges - the fine is waived.

[Xpat253]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

You need the documents to renew your work-permit - so you can do it yourself.   Is your employer refusing to provide these to you?  

Your employer would have to provide these to you to get a visa out of the country, so why not give them to you now?

They (local slonsor) dont provide documents. They tell me to follow their instructions which leads to overstay, that means they are planning to cancel visa first and then apply for wp.

Do you think MOL or Immigration would have any issue with applying a new wp first and then visa. If this could be confirmed then i may argue with my local sponsor.

[Here2008]

4 minutes ago, Xpat253 said:

They (local slonsor) dont provide documents.

 

Unless the 'sponsor' provides documentation you will be unable to obtain a "B" visa/extension of stay or a WP. 

 

As has been suggested before if  OneStop  is (or in the past has been) involved with your case you should seek their advice on how to proceed.

 

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, Xpat253 said:

They (local slonsor) dont provide documents. They tell me to follow their instructions which leads to overstay, that means they are planning to cancel visa first and then apply for wp.

Do you think MOL or Immigration would have any issue with applying a new wp first and then visa. If this could be confirmed then i may argue with my local sponsor.

The one-stop folks you spoke with seem to have told you that you can do this - unless I misunderstood.  Did they give you a list of documents you need to renew your work permit?  If not, try to get this, and present it to your sponsor.

 

Considering your sponsor is the cause of the problem, and now wants you to pay the fines for their failures, I would not trust them to have your best-interests covered.  If there is a way you can get them out of the process, and submit the documents yourself, that would be what I would attempt. 

 

If they won't cooperate, other than to get you out of the country plus drained of money on fines - I would wonder why.  If you were let-go from your job now, would they owe you severance pay?  Would getting you out of the country help them avoid paying this?   I would not accuse them of this, but it is something to think about.

 

If it looks like your sponsor is going to cancel your current permission-of-stay, then I would leave the country with the wife, first.  Then, from your first post:

 

On 7/31/2017 at 10:38 PM, Xpat253 said:

they say after flying out with family, only i have to come back agin on a new non-b while my family stay overseas untill i get wp here in thailand

To do this, they would need to provide you with the documents needed to apply for a new Non-B at a consulate out of the country.