EV producers seek bigger tax breaks

[webfact]

EV producers seek bigger tax breaks

By WICHIT CHAITRONG 
THE NATION

 

Locally made electric vehicles are coming while France and Britain plan to ban diesel and petrol cars and vans by 2040 to tackle pollution and climate change.

 

BANGKOK: -- FOLLOWING Tesla’s launch of its mass production electric vehicle, investors in Thailand are calling for the government to provide more incentives for consumers to buy EV cars – in line with moves overseas.

After Tesla CEO Elon Musk, launched Model 3 on Friday in California, local insider Tananan Kanjanakuha predicted the event may spark a wave of enthusiasm among consumers who want to own electric vehicles (EV).

 

Tesla model 3 is priced at $35, 000 (Bt1.2 million) considered by some to be the first mass production model affordable to consumers.

World-wide demand for EV is expected to rise, but demand in Thailand may not rise much due to a lack of tax incentives for consumers to buy EV, said Tananan, the general manager of Fomm (Asia) Co yesterday. In some states of the United States, and many countries in Europe, consumers get a tax break or tax refund if they buy an EV, he said.

 

In Thailand, government has offered a small excise tax cut, down to 2 per cent from the previous rate of 10 per cent. It is not sufficient, Tananan said, adding that this tax cut would benefit manufacturers but not consumers.

 

He suggested that the government return to a tax refund similar to the governments 2011 first-car scheme, which allowed consumers to get back money up to Bt100,000 per car. Or the government could offer an annual tax deduction for consumers, Tananan said.

 

The rationale for a tax cut for consumers is that everyone benefits from the reduced air pollution in big cities like Bangkok when sufficient numbers of people buy EVs.

 

Tananan’s company, Fomm, is a joint venture between Japanese and Thai investors, plans to manufacturer their own EV in Chon Buri province in the middle of next year.

 

It would be a compact car designed to be used in the city with range per charge of 160 kilometres and speeds between 60-80 kilometres per hour.

 

Recharging the batter would take about 6 hours and car owners could charge at home.

 

The car could carry four passengers, but it would be much more comfortable with two passengers.

 

Fomm autos could swim if they encountered flooded roads.

 

The price would be an estimated Bt500,000, which is still expensive for a small car when compared to current polluting cars powered by internal combustion engines, said Tananan.

 

Due to the high price of manufacturing an electric car’s powerful, it would not easy to achieve lower price. However, battery technology has advanced fast over the past 15 years, reducing costs by 200 per cent so far, Tananan added.

 

Werachet Khannerng , co-founder of Vera Automotive Co, which also plans to make compact EV car for five passengers with five doors next year, said the current tax system favours hybrid cars. If the government wants to support EVs, they should cut the excise tax on lithium batteries from the current 28 per cent.

 

Government agencies could budget to buy EV cars for their use, which would help build the industry in Thailand. Vera car’s range per charge will be 180 kilometres and its maximum speed 100 kilometres per hour. It is also designed for city use.

 

Meanwhile, Natthakorn Utensute, director of the Excise Department’s planning bureau, said introducing tax incentives to encourage consumers to buy EV would depend on the government making it a policy.

 

EV is one of five new “s-curve’ high technology industries that the government is promoting currently.

 

For the moment, the low excise tax of 2 per cent is good enough, Natthakorn said.

 

Before increasing tax incentives, the government would need to take many factors into consideration, he added.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/Auto_ADO/30322393

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-08-01

[Thian]

In Bangkok they could start by promoting smaller cars and giving them special privileges.....It's insane to have the biggest SUV's and pickuptrucks all over the city.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Thian

[edwinchester]

"Recharging the batter would take about 6 hours..."

 

No thanks.

When will EV manufacturers get past this battery crap with limited range and charging drawbacks.

Hydrogen powered fuel cells are the way to go. Zero emissions, no battery degradation and can be refilled as quickly as petrol vehicles with the latest systems.

[SABloke]

"Tesla model 3 is priced at $35, 000 (Bt1.2 million) considered by some to be the first mass production model affordable to consumers."

 

This is true for consumer outside Thailand as the current import duty for electric vehicles is 200% (before vat)  so the Tesla Model 3 will cost at least 3.7 million Baht. Who wants to pay $110k for a Tesla Model 3?  

[rickudon]

Hydrogen fuel cells still have a long way to go before they are commercially viable. In 2011. One of the few test model cars were reckoned to cost 200,000 US dollars each. Elon Musk's car is 35,000 US dollars ...... And Elon Musk doesn't think it will take off for a long time. I would agree that technically fuel cells would be preferable but there are fuel safety issues and Electricity is readily available. Actually it is reckoned that the first big market for electric vehicles will not be cars but delivery vans, trucks and buses in Urban areas.

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, edwinchester said:

"Recharging the batter would take about 6 hours..."

 

No thanks.

When will EV manufacturers get past this battery crap with limited range and charging drawbacks.

Hydrogen powered fuel cells are the way to go. Zero emissions, no battery degradation and can be refilled as quickly as petrol vehicles with the latest systems.

I am not sure on figures but charging for 6 hours a day will bump up your electricity bill a fair bit and as more people start doing it overnight the power stations will be running more at night and banging out more greenhouse gases etc.

Plus I'm not sure how much polution the manufacturing of high capacity batteries produces.

[edwinchester]

55 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Hydrogen fuel cells still have a long way to go before they are commercially viable. In 2011. One of the few test model cars were reckoned to cost 200,000 US dollars each. Elon Musk's car is 35,000 US dollars ...... And Elon Musk doesn't think it will take off for a long time. I would agree that technically fuel cells would be preferable but there are fuel safety issues and Electricity is readily available. Actually it is reckoned that the first big market for electric vehicles will not be cars but delivery vans, trucks and buses in Urban areas.

Economy of scale would bring the cost of fuel cells down but needs the vehicle manufacturers to see the long term benefits.

I'd disagree on the safety aspect as a properly designed and installed package is no more dangerous than other fuel systems.

The problem with hydrogen is that everyone has seen the video of the Hindenburg going whoosh but nobody worries about the lpg or petrol tanks underneath them that are similar potential bombs.

Another way to save on costs is internal combustion engines running on hydrogen. Minimal retooling and development costs and the emissions are still only water.

I look forward to the day when all homes can generate their own hydrogen from renewable energy, store it to power the home energy needs and have a home refueller for their vehicles.

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

For the moment, the low excise tax of 2 per cent is good enough

Why any excise tax?

You don't support a new industry with tax policies that are just "good enough."

[Beats56]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

I am not sure on figures but charging for 6 hours a day will bump up your electricity bill a fair bit and as more people start doing it overnight the power stations will be running more at night and banging out more greenhouse gases etc.

Plus I'm not sure how much polution the manufacturing of high capacity batteries produces.

Bump up you electric bill!...compare the cost of electric to petrol. A Damm lot cheaper than a ice car. Plus when they get superchargers installed it lowers charge times.significantly. 

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, Beats56 said:

Bump up you electric bill!...compare the cost of electric to petrol. A Damm lot cheaper than a ice car. Plus when they get superchargers installed it lowers charge times.significantly. 

How much to replace the batteries when they start to become inefficient? which I'm sure they do.

[Beats56]

Tesla says good for 100000 miles. How much.do you spend on engine repairs for a car. Transmission. .oil changes..coolest. ..fan belts and plain regular car battery over that time. In the winter a lot of countries plug their car in to a block heater.as well

 

[macgver]

It is better for the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority to restructure the road planning first before selling these EV cars. Do they know that the traffic is not well managed and end up struck in the traffic jam. We will see more EV cars breakdown on the road because the battery is empty.

[overherebc]

23 minutes ago, Beats56 said:

Tesla says good for 100000 miles. How much.do you spend on engine repairs for a car. Transmission. .oil changes..coolest. ..fan belts and plain regular car battery over that time. In the winter a lot of countries plug their car in to a block heater.as well

 

Estimated price for a Tesla battery is 10,000$.

Add tax etc and import etc.

You still have to have the battery checked monthly by the service agents etc, desulphated regularly etc.

Run the battery to completely flat a few times then as people will do stick on a supercharger and you are chopping cycles out of it's life as you do.

Do you think anyone is going to give any guarantee on the battery if the car is second hand?

At 'estimated' 300,000 baht minimum for a new battery, who will take the risk?  Not me.

[Beats56]

On 01/08/2017 at 2:36 PM, overherebc said:

Estimated price for a Tesla battery is 10,000$.

Add tax etc and import etc.

You still have to have the battery checked monthly by the service agents etc, desulphated regularly etc.

Run the battery to completely flat a few times then as people will do stick on a supercharger and you are chopping cycles out of it's life as you do.

Do you think anyone is going to give any guarantee on the battery if the car is second hand?

At 'estimated' 300,000 baht minimum for a new battery, who will take the risk?  Not me.

These are not lead acid batteries but lithium ion batteries no need to desulphated them. And don't have to be checked monthly. Tesla monitors your battery and all fuctions of the car and will inform you of a problem.

You have to compare the Tesla which  is a luxury car to cars in the same category such mercs etc. When you do Tesla is in the bottom for maintenance cost. 

[overherebc]

4 hours ago, Beats56 said:

These are not lead acid batteries but lithium ion batteries no need to desulphated them. And don't have to be checked monthly. Tesla monitors your battery and all fuctions of the car and will inform you of a problem.

You have to compare the Tesla which  is a luxury car to cars in the same category such mercs etc. When you do Tesla is in the bottom for maintenance cost. 

Fine in USA or EU.  Think about where most of us are living. ??

PS. 

I have a Merc and it's not luxury or anything special. For many years I lived where a Mercedes was a taxi.

New models were factory tested before the model was released and all the gremlins fixed so they knew it was all sorted before customers even bought one. Now they make the new model, sell it and wait to fix problems from customer and agent feedback.

At the moment, IMHO, Electric cars made by whoever are doing the same thing.

Still prefer the sound of a tuned straight 6 or V8.

Edited August 3, 2017 by overherebc