Black-clad Yingluck cuts a relaxed figure at Supreme Court

[binjalin]

39 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

they certainly operate differently to any judicial system that I've been involved with!

 

Who you are and whose currently pulling the strings definitely affects things. But I think that's the case in many countries. Not that that makes it right,.

Agreed.  No jurors, No 'precedent', each judge a law unto  themself and discounts for saying 'i did it' (50%) even if you didn't

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, JAG said:

Umh, I rather thought she was removed for abuse of her position, for appointing a relative to a senior post?

As I recall the chap she replaced had gone public and declared that notwithstanding the fact that he was a civil servant, and that her government was the legally constituted properly elected government, he didn't like them so was not prepared to follow their instructions...

So he was sacked.

Of course I may be wrong, I don't have your encyclopaedic recall of all her actions...

 

 

Indeed, your memory has had lapses before with your off the cuff replies. But your hearts in the right place, er, I think. 

 

From memory and I'm getting old, she, or more likely those who advised her, moved a chappie out of his post, so another chappie could replace him and create a vacancy in the rather strategic post he moved from, which was filled by Yingluck's relative ( a relative by marriage I believe).

 

One guy, complained, as was his right, that the appropriate procedures had not been followed. As so dear Yingluck was taken to court.

 

Abuse of power, nepotism - appears so. Corruption, well yep, placing relatives and trusted lackeys in key positions and choke points certainly is corrupt. She was found guilty and removed from office.

 

Now, you could ask if there was a time lapse before he complained; if YS had simply rubber stamped such a transfer, one among many; if she had been poorly advised; if such an action warranted removal from office etc etc. 

 

But in a country where attacking someone then slashing at them and their car with a big knife warrants a ThB 500 fine whilst killing a cop with a high powered car whilst possibly drugged and/or boozed up, fleeing the scene and trying to pervert the course of justice doesn't even warrant getting arrested, then anything is possible!

 

To be fair, all sides play this game when they want to here. Pedantic beyond imagination but only when it suits.

[Thailand]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No, not a politician. An actress who played the part the family wanted to a tee. 

 

Not the first, and not the last.

Met her some years ago, and definitely a politician. A smart lady, and yes, not the first nor the last.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, binjalin said:

Agreed.  No jurors, No 'precedent', each judge a law unto  themself and discounts for saying 'i did it' (50%) even if you didn't

 

Indeed. They do have precendent - but don't have to follow it! 

 

As Forest Gump would say, life is a box of chocolates, you never know what you'll get!

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Thailand said:

Met her some years ago, and definitely a politician. A smart lady, and yes, not the first nor the last.

 

In which case, then those who have posted in the past, that they felt sorry for her because she was dump, didn't understand, or really know what was going on, were mistaken, in your opinion.

 

She knew, and understands exactly what was going on.

[binjalin]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

In which case, then those who have posted in the past, that they felt sorry for her because she was dump, didn't understand, or really know what was going on, were mistaken, in your opinion.

 

She knew, and understands exactly what was going on.

She razor sharp and anyone who thinks she's dumb has an unnatural bias. Serene and noble is what I'd call her. Tried the best for the farmers but it was a failed policy, partly unlucky due to world prices, but no corruption by her and of course the present Junta are doing exactly the same thing!  (same as US and Europe).

 

Witch hunt by vindictive and beaten, electorally, elite Thai dinosaurs.

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, binjalin said:

She razor sharp and anyone who thinks she's dumb has an unnatural bias. Serene and noble is what I'd call her. Tried the best for the farmers but it was a failed policy, partly unlucky due to world prices, but no corruption by her and of course the present Junta are doing exactly the same thing!  (same as US and Europe).

 

Witch hunt by vindictive and beaten, electorally, elite Thai dinosaurs.

 

Sorry we have to disagree. If she is razor sharp, and I've no reason to doubt that, she was unfortunate to be controlled and instructed by her elder brother. Appreciate she has to comply with Sino-Thai family tradition, culture and etiquette. 

 

I haven't seen anything noble from her. She appeared to hand over control to her brother fairly quickly. His policies, he re-shuffled her cabinet, when it suited him and his self interest brought about the demise of her government. Had she stood her ground, really represented the people, and fought hard for them, I would really be championing her at every opportunity.

 

I saw the disappointment of many Thais who thought she'd be a breath of fresh air, only to see her brother simply dominate, with all his old cronies and ideas.

 

I have no idea if she personally was involved or benefited from the corruption which seemed to riddle the scheme. But she either chose to ignore it or was prevented from doing anything about it. 

 

Whether she is a victim or a willing party of her brother's corruption is debatable. But we're never really going to know.

[binjalin]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Sorry we have to disagree. If she is razor sharp, and I've no reason to doubt that, she was unfortunate to be controlled and instructed by her elder brother. Appreciate she has to comply with Sino-Thai family tradition, culture and etiquette. 

 

I haven't seen anything noble from her. She appeared to hand over control to her brother fairly quickly. His policies, he re-shuffled her cabinet, when it suited him and his self interest brought about the demise of her government. Had she stood her ground, really represented the people, and fought hard for them, I would really be championing her at every opportunity.

 

I saw the disappointment of many Thais who thought she'd be a breath of fresh air, only to see her brother simply dominate, with all his old cronies and ideas.

 

I have no idea if she personally was involved or benefited from the corruption which seemed to riddle the scheme. But she either chose to ignore it or was prevented from doing anything about it. 

 

Whether she is a victim or a willing party of her brother's corruption is debatable. But we're never really going to know.

I know that's your view. She hasn't run, no hiding, been trailed by Army spies, always calm and serene and we have to differ... I see a noble person and when history is written, long after the bully boys have gone, there will be a different story.

 

Don't forget she has NO free speech, she cant say what really happened nor can she speak openly against the Junta as they have the GUNS and are perfectly capable of making someone 'disappear' whilst the CCTV is having maintenance done.

 

She's walking a thin line, gracefully I'd say.

Edited August 2, 2017 by binjalin

[Baerboxer]

Just now, binjalin said:

I know that's your view. She hasn't run, no hiding, been trailed by Army spies, always clam and serene and we have to differ... I see a noble person and when history is written, long after the bully boys have gone, there will be a different story. Dont forget she has NO free speech, she cant say what really happened nor can she speak openly against the Junta as they have the GUNS and are perfectly capable of making someone 'dissappear' whilst the CCTV is having maintenance done. She s walking a thin line, gracefully I'd say.

 

That's your opinion, which I respect you are perfectly entitled to. 

 

Opponents of her brother have also mysteriously met their demise or disappeared.

 

The whole quagmire is tainted and either she's an innocent thrown to the wolves, which you and some others suggest isn't the case; or she's just one of the players, and as tainted as the others. Remember the Fours Seasons saga. That's perhaps a good example to illustrate, include only witness demise.

 

She is from feudal aristocracy and an extremely wealthy family member. That may explain her ease and poise.

 

But whatever. Nothing will really change.

 

 

[spidermike007]

On 8/1/2017 at 2:20 PM, Dogmatix said:

Sadly the farmers that hung themselves or died choking on self-administered weed killer, due to the failure of the rice pledging scheme, were not outside the court cheering her and I doubt, if their surviving family members are either.  Thaksin was in such a rush to get his minions to dissolve parliament, imagining his sister returning to power with a large majority, that they pulled the plug without giving Kittirat as Finance Minister time to  draft and issue a Royal Decree to provide funding to the BAAC to complete the payments for rice that had already been delivered.  Meanwhile, the government had made sure that the bandits involved in the fake rice export deals were paid in full with the farmers' money.  This rice was actually re-pledged to the government a second time and the crooks, who allegedly colluded with Thaksin made off with around 6 billion baht.

 

By all accounts the thinking was that Thaksin and his cronies were going to corner the rice global rice market, push prices up and profit immensely from controlling Thailand's entire rice stock.  The plan flopped because they didn't anticipate that India would have a bumper crop and start exporting which suddenly made Thailand a weak player in the global market and forced prices down.  But not to worry, the fall back plan worked well, pretending to export pledged rice at depressed global prices but actually fraudulently pledging it again at the guaranteed price, thereby making the difference between the global price and the artificial pledged price and stuffing the rice pledging scheme with two rounds of losses on the same rice.  That is not to mention the large quantities of rice that were imported from Laos and Cambodia and pledged to the government.      

 

I am sure that none of this was as a result of her planning because she was only a figurehead who didn't plan anything or even have much clue what was going on.  Nevertheless, she was in a position to prevent the corruption, probably had a good idea about some of it and chose to do nothing.  In fact, no one except her and her inner circle can say for sure that she didn't also profit personally from the fraud in the rice pledging scheme.  Her brother is alleged to have orchestrated the corrupt deals, using one rice trader who is also a fugitive from justice.  Thai authorities have made no efforts to try to find out whether she received any inexplicable payments in her offshore bank accounts, which could have been a share of commission payments.   

                

 

I tend to agree, that she did not have the best interests of the Thai people at heart. No doubt she was following the orders of her maniacal, power hungry brother, who cared not one iota for the average Thai person. She nearly bankrupted the nation. I do not believe the $8 billion figure even for a nanosecond. I think it was far higher. And what about the rice farmers who went along with the program and had to wait months to get paid? How did they survive? Did she care? And nobody is mentioning the other hair brained schemes. Cassava and rubber pledging. It was all about votes. It had nothing to do with the welfare of the nation. Zero. Nada. Nunca. 

 

Personally I would like to see her spend some time in the slammer. And I would love to see the influence of this toxic family diminished. The country needs real leaders. Where they are going to come from, is any bodies guess. 

 

The really sad part of this story, is that the current government only goes after former leaders, officials, or police. Not current. Nobody in power. Ever. With the exception of General Manas, who was obviously a fall guy for an internationally embarrassing scandal. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by spidermike007

[tryasimight]

Black-clad Yingluck cuts a relaxed figure at Supreme Court

Bugger my mongers eye read that as 

Bikini-clad Yingluck cuts a relaxed figure at Supreme Court

[sandemara]

On 8/1/2017 at 6:14 PM, snoop1130 said:

 

In delivering her 29-page closing statement in trembling voices before the judges of the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division

Speaking in tongues?

[binjalin]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That's your opinion, which I respect you are perfectly entitled to. 

 

Opponents of her brother have also mysteriously met their demise or disappeared.

 

The whole quagmire is tainted and either she's an innocent thrown to the wolves, which you and some others suggest isn't the case; or she's just one of the players, and as tainted as the others. Remember the Fours Seasons saga. That's perhaps a good example to illustrate, include only witness demise.

 

She is from feudal aristocracy and an extremely wealthy family member. That may explain her ease and poise.

 

But whatever. Nothing will really change.

 

 

I respect your courtesy. Yes she is from that feudal aristocracy but the 'maverick' side and she is being squashed from the 'traditional' side. Can't say more here.

[Orton Rd]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That's your opinion, which I respect you are perfectly entitled to. 

 

Opponents of her brother have also mysteriously met their demise or disappeared.

 

 

Who were they?, can you give us a list of names, or is this just something you would like to believe?

Edited August 2, 2017 by Orton Rd

[halloween]

4 hours ago, binjalin said:

I know that's your view. She hasn't run, no hiding, been trailed by Army spies, always calm and serene and we have to differ... I see a noble person and when history is written, long after the bully boys have gone, there will be a different story.

 

Don't forget she has NO free speech, she cant say what really happened nor can she speak openly against the Junta as they have the GUNS and are perfectly capable of making someone 'disappear' whilst the CCTV is having maintenance done.

 

She's walking a thin line, gracefully I'd say.

She can't say what really happened? Is there some other mysterious way that B500 billion was lost from the public accounts? What could be so secret that after being told she had squandered B200 billion, she decided to blow B300 billion more?

[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 8/1/2017 at 3:20 PM, garvon said:

One should put this in context where the losses from the rice scheme exceeded 500 billion baht. The whole nation is up in arms for a 13 billion baht submarine which is a drop in the bucket to Yingluk's rice losses. She may not have been part of it but as prime minister she certainly knew who was doing what and to whom. Guilty as charged.

If the sub only cost 13 billion baht, perhaps the Navy should have ordered three. as I believe they spent about 36 billion.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

20 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Well you can't blame her for being promoted or elected or appointed. The People supposedly did that.

She was elected as an MP,  the rest was down to her brother...

He wanted the amnesty bill pushed through.

The rice scam was a populist smoke screen that went out of control.

Edited August 2, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[metisdead]

Off topic trolling posts and replies have been removed. 

[brewsterbudgen]

An incompetent politician who's been elected can at least be voted out. People from democratic countries supporting unelected military governments should be ashamed.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[halloween]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

An incompetent politician who's been elected can at least be voted out. People from democratic countries supporting unelected military governments should be ashamed.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

But TIT. Had she been able to borrow the B2.2 trillion to continue the rice scam, would the same people re-elect her? At what cost to the nation before she is finally stopped from bribing the electorate with disastrously stupid policy?

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

18 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

An incompetent politician who's been elected can at least be voted out. People from democratic countries supporting unelected military governments should be ashamed.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I am surprised you take that line. Democratically elected politicians get a term in office. If they don't perform in the way promised and have their own agenda it is not usually possible to remove them early if they have a large majority gained with lies. 

Thai history is full of instances like this, hence so many coups.

Democracy, especially in relatively new democracies (less then several hundred years and after a lot of bloodshed), find it difficult to employ in the way it ideally should be.

Even in supposedly mature democratic countries, the majority is often deemed to be wrong and the vote is undermined by people opposed to majority decisions, which is the basis of a democratic system.

 

Don't forget the world has communist dictatorships like China and Russia, oil states that are still outright monarchies, and supposed democratic unions that are governed by unelected bureaucrats.

 

It's not just TIT.

Joe Bloggs doesn't usually get a fair deal wherever he lives so it seems.

As for the Shins, they just make me

 

 

[Khun Han]

32 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I am surprised you take that line. Democratically elected politicians get a term in office. If they don't perform in the way promised and have their own agenda it is not usually possible to remove them early if they have a large majority gained with lies. 

Thai history is full of instances like this, hence so many coups.

Democracy, especially in relatively new democracies (less then several hundred years and after a lot of bloodshed), find it difficult to employ in the way it ideally should be.

Even in supposedly mature democratic countries, the majority is often deemed to be wrong and the vote is undermined by people opposed to majority decisions, which is the basis of a democratic system.

 

Don't forget the world has communist dictatorships like China and Russia, oil states that are still outright monarchies, and supposed democratic unions that are governed by unelected bureaucrats.

 

It's not just TIT.

Joe Bloggs doesn't usually get a fair deal wherever he lives so it seems.

As for the Shins, they just make me

 

 

 

The Shins are just the best of the wannabes George. Whilst it's quite right to dislike them, the ones who should really make you want to puke are their opponents, who have governed Thailand for most of it's modern history, and far more corruptly and brutally too.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

The Shins are just the best of the wannabes George. Whilst it's quite right to dislike them, the ones who should really make you want to puke are their opponents, who have governed Thailand for most of it's modern history, and far more corruptly and brutally too.

I take the point.

Have you a suggestion to help Thailand and all the other countries with that problem?

The best of two evils? Or a completely new way of government?

I will be interested in what you have to say.

 

[Khun Han]

Just now, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I take the point.

Have you a suggestion to help Thailand and all the other countries with that problem?

The best of two evils? Or a completely new way of government?

I will be interested in what you have to say.

 

 

Frankly, the biggest optimist in the world couldn't even begin to have a solution, Thailand is in such a mess politically. It's a tragedy that's going to get worse for decades at least, before it gets better. Can you see any light at the end of the tunnel, other than the proverbial oncoming train? I can't.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Frankly, the biggest optimist in the world couldn't even begin to have a solution, Thailand is in such a mess politically. It's a tragedy that's going to get worse for decades at least, before it gets better. Can you see any light at the end of the tunnel, other than the proverbial oncoming train? I can't.

Ha ha!

Thailand is Thailand.

If anyone could solve the problems here, never mind all the other places immersed in one sort of conflict or another, the world would be a happier but still overpopulated place.

All for now.

 

[binjalin]

18 hours ago, halloween said:

But TIT. Had she been able to borrow the B2.2 trillion to continue the rice scam, would the same people re-elect her? At what cost to the nation before she is finally stopped from bribing the electorate with disastrously stupid policy?

Up to the electorate but Military force should not be used - shame on you

[halloween]

1 hour ago, binjalin said:

Up to the electorate but Military force should not be used - shame on you

Yeah right, government without oversight is just fine because the voice of the people is ALWAYS right. News for you, those who don't vote for the government also have rights.

[binjalin]

10 minutes ago, halloween said:

Yeah right, government without oversight is just fine because the voice of the people is ALWAYS right. News for you, those who don't vote for the government also have rights.

You mean the Military?  those with guns?  Bully wins?  say's a lot about you doesn't it?  someone who condones overthrowing democracies with force. News for you, you follow a fascist path.

Edited August 15, 2017 by binjalin

[halloween]

17 minutes ago, binjalin said:

You mean the Military?  those with guns?  Bully wins?  say's a lot about you doesn't it?  someone who condones overthrowing democracies with force. News for you, you follow a fascist path.

No, I just don't believe that any government is always right. And that is doubly so with the criminal conspiracy that was posing as what passes for a democratic government here. But you go on putting those who disagree in perjorative boxes, it's so much easier than discussing the merits of the alleged democracy and its policies, isn't it?

[binjalin]

3 minutes ago, halloween said:

No, I just don't believe that any government is always right. And that is doubly so with the criminal conspiracy that was posing as what passes for a democratic government here. But you go on putting those who disagree in perjorative boxes, it's so much easier than discussing the merits of the alleged democracy and its policies, isn't it?

I don't believe that governments are always right but I also don't believe the Army, which is answerable to the government, have ANY right to take over. Separation of powers.