Academics criticise govt policy for worsening flooding in Northeast

[webfact]

Academics criticise govt policy for worsening flooding in Northeast

By PRATCH RUJIVANAROM 
THE NATION

 

Chi River

 

BANGKOK: -- ACADEMICS AND water experts have urged water management reform in the Northeast Region after major flooding in the Chi-Mun River Basin has proven that not only did traditional water management fail to prevent floods, it actually intensified the disaster.

Tropical storm Sonca battered the Northeast last week, leaving many provinces in the region heavily flooded from the combination of heavy downpours and water discharged from dams as reservoirs were filled beyond their capacity.

 

Maha Sarakham University lecturer Chainarong Sretthachau posted a statement on Facebook on Saturday saying that traditional water management had not been able to prevent the floods, but instead intensified the damage and destroyed the freshwater swamp ecosystem, which played a vital part in the livelihoods of people in the Northeast.

 

“This disaster was because the water was discharged from Ubonrat Dam and Lam Pao Dam at the rate of up to 20 million cubic metres per day, while there are also run-of-river dams downstream, which obstructed the water drainage,” Chainarong said.

 

“But what really made the flood disaster more severe was the riverside embankments, which narrowed the waterways and forced water to flow faster while blocking the water from reaching the wetlands. When the embankment fails to hold back the swift water current, it will result in the devastating floods.”

 

He said wetland encroachment had also contributed to more intense flooding because of the elimination of floodwater retention areas.

 

He also warned that Ubon Ratchatani would continue to suffer from floods because the Pak Mun Dam slowed down water drainage to the Mekong River and the city encroached on a large area of wetlands, leaving the new lowland urban area prone to floods.

 

Chainarong urged the government to consider dam demolitions and waterway restoration to the natural state, as the dams in the Chi-Mun River Basin did not provide much benefit for irrigation, while urbanisation should be controlled to avoid more wetland encroachment. 

 

“We should not only prioritise preserving the headwaters. The preservation of the ecosystem downstream is also important,” he said.

 

Prominent water expert Hannarong Yaowalers agreed that the dams were not the correct answer for modern water management and cautioned that authorities should carefully inspect the old dams nationwide to make sure that they could handle more precipitation due to climate change.

 

Hannarong said many dams had been built decades ago and their construction did not prepare them to store extraordinarily large quantities of water as seen during the heaviest rains in 200 years brought by Sonca, which resulted in reservoir damage in Sakon Nakhon province.

 

“The dams are like time bombs. Authorities should make sure that they are safe and they also have to provide real-time information to people to avoid damage to people’s properties and lives,” he said.

 

He added that the major flooding in the Northeast had been caused by natural factors, but it was intensified by human error, so the government must improve disaster preparation and warning systems.

 

Meanwhile, Sakon Nakhon resident Wichai Rattanaburi said the government had failed to warn people about flooding, leading to significant damage to property in the province.

 

“I want to urge the government to be sincere and open information to the people, so we can prepare for the coming disaster. Nobody in Sakon Nakhon knew that there would be a big flood, so they did not prepare for high floodwaters, because there had not been a flood in our town before,” Wichai said.

 

He added that he was even more upset after the Royal Irrigation Department reported that the Huai Zai Kamin Reservoir had not collapsed, when in reality it had and stored water flooded the town. 

 

“We want the truth from authorities, not a lie,” he said.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30322992

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-08-07

[BuckBee]

prayuts feet are not wet and his buddies will have nice submarines so why should they care ...

absolutely shows current government mob for what they are as any honest and decent one would of been on massive water management projects from day 1, not fluffing about with lottery tickets, writing poems, wasting billions on military toys/chinese deals.

flooding and droughts needed work started decade ago,  they lost lot of farming and industrial plants due to it, thailand was main manufacturer of hard drives but flooding issues along with usual political nonsense put end to that. not very attractive place for business ventures . future is bleak unless common sense can make its way to governance ...

[Lunchbob]

Very important article. Thank you, Pravit RUJIVANAROM. Summary: The current water management strategies are incorrect. The reservoir burst which can only happen through human error. Officials tried to soft soap or cover what really happened.

[AGareth2]

55 minutes ago, Lunchbob said:

Officials tried to soft soap or cover what really happened.

No No No!

It is an act of God!

Art 44 does work against this phenomenon.

[mtls2005]

The PM defended the lack of advanced planning and warning for the NE by saying that those folks are used to it.

 

 

 

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, BuckBee said:

prayuts feet are not wet and his buddies will have nice submarines so why should they care ...

absolutely shows current government mob for what they are as any honest and decent one would of been on massive water management projects from day 1, not fluffing about with lottery tickets, writing poems, wasting billions on military toys/chinese deals.

flooding and droughts needed work started decade ago,  they lost lot of farming and industrial plants due to it, thailand was main manufacturer of hard drives but flooding issues along with usual political nonsense put end to that. not very attractive place for business ventures . future is bleak unless common sense can make its way to governance ...

It is not a place you want to invest unless you can load up your things and be in another country in  a few hours. 

 

The article identified both problems and solutions.  We shall see how the current government acts.

[Thaimike370]

Having the drains set over a foot above the road doesn't help.  It does stop them getting blocked up though!

[YetAnother]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

because of the elimination of floodwater retention areas.

 

He also warned that Ubon Ratchatani would continue to suffer from floods because the Pak Mun Dam slowed down water drainage to the Mekong River and the city encroached on a large area of wetlands, leaving the new lowland urban area prone to floods.

so there really isnt any water management system

[trainman34014]

Ah; it's that word 'Reform' coming up again.  What's need here is a 'Road Map', several 'Committee's' and a 'Panel' to 'Probe' these matters !

 

They never learn; mismanagement; indeed feeble and incompetent management is a major hallmark of this country from top to bottom.   Every year they tell the people there will be no floods and every year there are floods.   Every year they tell the people there will be no draught and every year there is a drought.    Bullshit baffles brains and they rely on constant streams of bullshit as they are incapable of coming up with real solutions.

[halloween]

Chainarong Sretthachau, Mahasarakham University, Sociology and Anthropology Department seems to have his own little agenda - he certainly doesn't seem to know much about hydrology. Could be he just doesn't like the junta, having had a "please explain" about his affiliation with the Dao Din group.

[JigaloJack]

6 minutes ago, halloween said:

That is highly unlikely. Have you heard of any political decisions made re the handling of flood waters, or just trolling?

You might want to re-read the above article Mickyboy.

 

 

“This disaster was because the water was discharged from Ubonrat Dam and Lam Pao Dam at the rate of up to 20 million cubic metres per day, while there are also run-of-river dams downstream, which obstructed the water drainage,” Chainarong said.

 

He added that the major flooding in the Northeast had been caused by natural factors, but it was intensified by human error, so the government must improve disaster preparation and warning systems.

 

Meanwhile, Sakon Nakhon resident Wichai Rattanaburi said the government had failed to warn people about flooding, leading to significant damage to property in the province.

 

He added that he was even more upset after the Royal Irrigation Department reported that the Huai Zai Kamin Reservoir had not collapsed, when in reality it had and stored water flooded the town.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by JigaloJack

[barrywhite]

1 hour ago, trainman34014 said:

Ah; it's that word 'Reform' coming up again.  What's need here is a 'Road Map', several 'Committee's' and a 'Panel' to 'Probe' these matters !

 

They never learn; mismanagement; indeed feeble and incompetent management is a major hallmark of this country from top to bottom.   Every year they tell the people there will be no floods and every year there are floods.   Every year they tell the people there will be no draught and every year there is a drought.    Bullshit baffles brains and they rely on constant streams of bullshit as they are incapable of coming up with real solutions.

Don't  forget they will also need the "abroad trip" somewhere exotic to study it in detail, taking along at least 50-70 staff in a private plane.

[halloween]

7 minutes ago, JigaloJack said:

You might want to re-read the above article Mickyboy.

 

 

“This disaster was because the water was discharged from Ubonrat Dam and Lam Pao Dam at the rate of up to 20 million cubic metres per day, while there are also run-of-river dams downstream, which obstructed the water drainage,” Chainarong said.

 

He added that the major flooding in the Northeast had been caused by natural factors, but it was intensified by human error, so the government must improve disaster preparation and warning systems.

 

Meanwhile, Sakon Nakhon resident Wichai Rattanaburi said the government had failed to warn people about flooding, leading to significant damage to property in the province.

 

He added that he was even more upset after the Royal Irrigation Department reported that the Huai Zai Kamin Reservoir had not collapsed, when in reality it had and stored water flooded the town.

 

It seems you don't know much about hydrology either. Did you look at the water watch website? Do you know that at the time the dam was at 85% AND FILLING with an inflow 205 higher than the outflow? Or that the dams downstream are mitigating the flood for those LIVING further downstream?

 

Unspecified human error, if it exists, does not equate to political interference, like your dear Yingluk exercised for political gain. Plus they needed some rice to sell so her brothers cronies could make profit on storage and agent's fees.

 

So you think the residents of Sakon Nakhon came down in the last shower, unaware that heavy rain usually means flooding there. G/f comes from the area, and while in Samui knew it was likely to flood both there and in Nakhon Phanom, where it naturally drains to the Mekong.

 

Only reports of reservoir collapse are right here, and I am guessing they are referring to a floodwall, not a dam.

[JigaloJack]

6 minutes ago, halloween said:

It seems you don't know much about hydrology either. Did you look at the water watch website? Do you know that at the time the dam was at 85% AND FILLING with an inflow 205 higher than the outflow? Or that the dams downstream are mitigating the flood for those LIVING further downstream?

 

Unspecified human error, if it exists, does not equate to political interference, like your dear Yingluk exercised for political gain. Plus they needed some rice to sell so her brothers cronies could make profit on storage and agent's fees.

 

So you think the residents of Sakon Nakhon came down in the last shower, unaware that heavy rain usually means flooding there. G/f comes from the area, and while in Samui knew it was likely to flood both there and in Nakhon Phanom, where it naturally drains to the Mekong.

 

Only reports of reservoir collapse are right here, and I am guessing they are referring to a floodwall, not a dam.

You think these guys know a bit more than you about hydrology or not????

 

ACADEMICS AND water experts have urged water management reform in the Northeast Region after major flooding in the Chi-Mun River Basin has proven that not only did traditional water management fail to prevent floods, it actually intensified the disaster

 

Maintaining one eyed Junta support sure is getting tougher and tougher by the day, isn't it?

Edited August 7, 2017 by JigaloJack

[YetAnother]

academics to govt: 'you did it'; govt : 'we didnt do it'; o let's see, which group is actually intelligent....

[Becker]

9 minutes ago, JigaloJack said:

You think these guys know a bit more than you about hydrology or not????

 

ACADEMICS AND water experts have urged water management reform in the Northeast Region after major flooding in the Chi-Mun River Basin has proven that not only did traditional water management fail to prevent floods, it actually intensified the disaster

 

Maintaining one eyed Junta support sure is getting tougher and tougher by the day, isn't it?

You'll have to excuse halloween. Any perceived criticism of the junta triggers an automatic response from him. Sad.

[debate101]

Not surprising. Provincial governors and administrators are once again being appointed in a top-down fashion from Bangkok, and the areas they oversee are theirs to exploit as a reward for their loyalty. They have no reason to do anything to help the people who live there or make their lives easier or safer unless there's money to be made in it.

[zzaa09]

10 hours ago, YetAnother said:

so there really isnt any water management system

There use to be quite an effective system - even within regions [Isaan] that don't see flooding every year.

 

The ongoing cementing over the land and vital natural flood plains plus the filling in of khlongs hasn't help the situation.

These aspects are particularly important to the traditional high water regions in central and north Thailand.

[zzaa09]

19 minutes ago, debate101 said:

Not surprising. Provincial governors and administrators are once again being appointed in a top-down fashion from Bangkok, and the areas they oversee are theirs to exploit as a reward for their loyalty. They have no reason to do anything to help the people who live there or make their lives easier or safer unless there's money to be made in it.

Historically, the way that things are done here.

Trickling down plutocracy - 

[halloween]

6 hours ago, Becker said:

You'll have to excuse halloween. Any perceived criticism of the junta triggers an automatic response from him. Sad.

When I consider it unjustified, yes I respond. The criticism from Chainarong is ridiculous. I checked the Water Watch site (you could do the same) and the dam mentioned was mitigating the flooding, discharging heavily, but less than the inflow, as it was near full. The claim that downstream dams were preventing drainage is similarly stupid - water is draining into their catchment, which at 100% percent full is NOT going to flood the surrounding area.

 

More to the point, why is there any blame to the junta? Where is the political interference as with Yingluk? The red sycophants were quite happy to claim she couldn't be blamed for heavy rain when there clearly was political interference in water management, but hypocritically don't allow the same concession where there is no such interference.

 

BTW do you have anything to add to the discussion other than a cheap personal attack?

[halloween]

Quotes get credibility when a source is provided.

[jayboy]

19 hours ago, halloween said:

Chainarong Sretthachau, Mahasarakham University, Sociology and Anthropology Department seems to have his own little agenda - he certainly doesn't seem to know much about hydrology. Could be he just doesn't like the junta, having had a "please explain" about his affiliation with the Dao Din group.

This is actually quite funny.I don't have enough information to comment on whether the current government is to blame for the flooding other than the presiding responsibility every administration has.I am pretty sure general strategy and anti flooding measures are mainly driven by senior bureaucrats and provincial governments.Yet here we have Halloween jumping in and speculating whether critics have some kind of anti junta agenda.You can be sure that if Yingluck headed the government now, he would be frothing and ranting at her criminal incompetence, failure to attend meetings etc etc.Exaggeration on my part? If you think so look back to the flooding crisis of a few years ago when the yellow mob on this forum were spitting with rage.This is a minor but telling example of why I hold the foreign apologists for the Junta in low regard - their hypocrisy and dishonesty.

[YetAnother]

14 hours ago, debate101 said:

Not surprising. Provincial governors and administrators are once again being appointed in a top-down fashion from Bangkok, and the areas they oversee are theirs to exploit as a reward for their loyalty. They have no reason to do anything to help the people who live there or make their lives easier or safer unless there's money to be made in it.

you are correct but dont go far enough; these governor appointees ( it is called cronyism) are from bangkok and may not have any idea where 'their province' is, they will have zero local knowledge and will, doubtlessly, appoint their own stooges to local posts, who themselves have no local knowledge, and if in semi-technical positions will have Zero appropriate skills and the rot just continues to spread; 

governors should not be appointed; i bet locals can figure out what an election is; and , yes, i would even buy in to the crap that comes along with that; still better

Edited August 8, 2017 by YetAnother

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

you are correct but dont go far enough; these governor appointees ( it is called cronyism) are from bangkok and may not have any idea where 'their province' is, they will have zero local knowledge and will, doubtlessly, appoint their own stooges to local posts, who themselves have no local knowledge, and if in semi-technical positions will have Zero appropriate skills and the rot just continues to spread; 

governors should not be appointed; i bet locals can figure out what an election is; and , yes, i would even buy in to the crap that comes along with that; still better

Agreed governors should be elected.. PTP was against that. 

 

Same like that those Kayman / village heads must be elected, Prayut is trying to accomplish that. Then at least the real crooks can be voted out. (yes Prayut needs to go too)

 

All this cronysm is destroying the country, village heads skimming money meant for flood protection.. governors doing the same. If they were elected maybe there would be some change. 

 

Where I live they started building a big sluice after the floods.. guess what its still not completed though now I saw some people working on it again. I can only imagine the budget was stolen or something like that. 

[halloween]

53 minutes ago, JigaloJack said:

Why are the claims ridiculous?

Because you think they are?

Sorry to burst your bubble but when it comes to discerning truth from falsity - your opinions are worthless.

Exactly, you have no idea. They are ridiculous because they repeat the same old uninformed mantra, that dams make flooding worse because they don't PREVENT them. The purpose of dams is to MITIGATE floods by reducing the maximum flows. The dam may have to discharge heavily but it is always less than or equal the inflow during flood conditions ( with the possible exception that the dam is full well over design capacity).

His other claim was stopping the water draining from the flooded areas - pure BS. The flooded areas will drain just as fast into the dam catchment whether it is empty, full, or not there. That catchment may be filling, but that is because it is mitigating the flood for those downstream, who also deserve their help.

But that's all right, you accept the illogical mantra, it suits your agenda.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies re-hashing the floods of 2011 have been removed.  

[Becker]

16 hours ago, halloween said:

More to the point, why is there any blame to the junta?

QED.

[Lunchbob]

18 hours ago, halloween said:

When I consider it unjustified, yes I respond. The criticism from Chainarong is ridiculous. I checked the Water Watch site (you could do the same) and the dam mentioned was mitigating the flooding, discharging heavily, but less than the inflow, as it was near full. The claim that downstream dams were preventing drainage is similarly stupid - water is draining into their catchment, which at 100% percent full is NOT going to flood the surrounding area.

 

More to the point, why is there any blame to the junta? Where is the political interference as with Yingluk? The red sycophants were quite happy to claim she couldn't be blamed for heavy rain when there clearly was political interference in water management, but hypocritically don't allow the same concession where there is no such interference.

 

BTW do you have anything to add to the discussion other than a cheap personal attack?

It is not Prayut's fault the dam reservoir was mismanaged. It cant be full in July because they burst over the top and send massive amounts of water at high speed down narrow channels as soon as it rains heavily. We flooded because the dam(s) was mismanaged. Chaimong is correct. And even now the channels are spilling over about 200 meters so every piece of land next to a stream is still flooded because it cannot drain into the full stream.

[seajae]

there has been no change to the dams in Thailand for years so every govt is at fault for not doing something about it, floods are an act of god, no one can control the rain or the course of the rivers or the lay of the land. Thailand has flooded for years, centuries even before any dams were built, its part of the country. While the dams do mitigate worse damage they still need to be controlled correctly, those operating them need to ensure that they are no compromised by too much water or the floods will be a lot worse, at the same time they need to ensure that water release is done under the proper constraints and within the regulations. What doesnt help are those that do not allow for drainage when the build anything, utilizing lower land that will flood more easily and not maintaining anything built to slow the flooding, usually when something gives way it is because someone wanted to make it easier for them to get at what they wanted, I have seen roads collapse because farmers dug out the base of them to plant more trees, they dig through retaining walls so they can pump water more easily then when there is heavy rain they wash out completely but they like to blame others instead of themselves. Every govt has screwed up, its people that dont support the current one having a bitch session same as others do with other govts, the fault lies with nature and the rain, no one can control that

[Lunchbob]

4 minutes ago, seajae said:

there has been no change to the dams in Thailand for years so every govt is at fault for not doing something about it, floods are an act of god, no one can control the rain or the course of the rivers or the lay of the land. Thailand has flooded for years, centuries even before any dams were built, its part of the country. While the dams do mitigate worse damage they still need to be controlled correctly, those operating them need to ensure that they are no compromised by too much water or the floods will be a lot worse, at the same time they need to ensure that water release is done under the proper constraints and within the regulations. What doesnt help are those that do not allow for drainage when the build anything, utilizing lower land that will flood more easily and not maintaining anything built to slow the flooding, usually when something gives way it is because someone wanted to make it easier for them to get at what they wanted, I have seen roads collapse because farmers dug out the base of them to plant more trees, they dig through retaining walls so they can pump water more easily then when there is heavy rain they wash out completely but they like to blame others instead of themselves. Every govt has screwed up, its people that dont support the current one having a bitch session same as others do with other govts, the fault lies with nature and the rain, no one can control that

Well said. The water needs to be slowed, spread and sunk. The dams are like bombs.