Leave our dolphins alone - petition started to save Pattaya roundabout!

[webfact]

Leave our dolphins alone - petition started to save Pattaya roundabout!

 

Picture: Daily News

 

Pattaya people have been outraged by plans to rip out one of the resorts most loved landmarks.

 

And now a petition has been started to save the dolphin roundabout in North Pattaya.

 

Hundreds have signed already to save the roundabout that engineers say must go to improve traffic flow.

 

A group called Pattaya Watchdog even produced a sad farewell mock-up to the beloved traffic circle. Pictured lit up at night it said:

 

"R.I.P. You will always be in our memories. Dolphin Roundabout."

 

The group has called on Pattaya mayor Anan Charoenchasri to quash plans to rip it out and instead come up with something else in consultation with Pattaya people.

 

They said that the landmark had been named as one of the twelve most beautiful in the world in 2015 by the "British Roundabout Association".

 

Daily News reported that there had been an online storm of protest at the moves to rip out the roundabout. So far 300 people have signed the protest petition on campaign site change.org.

 

Source: Daily News

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-08-08

[khwaibah]

22 minutes ago, webfact said:

Hundreds have signed already to save the roundabout that engineers say must go to improve traffic flow.

 

Thousand could give a rats arse less and want better traffic flow and safety. Turn it into sushi. 

[johnnybgood]

The city population is being shafted by the powers that be ....
however they can organise complaints about this kind of trivia......... 
Maybe Pattaya deserves itself.

[champers]

A possible solution could be to keep the roundabout and install traffic lights to control flow. Cameras ought to be installed too to capture those running red lights. The left turn up Nua and U turn to get to the beach needs to dissappear.

This type of arrangement is common in the UK but usually at larger roundabouts.

Something has to be done in readiness for the opening of Terminal 21, otherwise chaos will ensue.

Edited August 8, 2017 by champers

[mikebell]

It's just another building scheme to enable back-handers.  There were lots of cheaper ways to improve traffic flow on Sukhumvit rather than an underground canal but it got the nod because of the opportunities for graft and bugger the businesses in the vicinity.

[smedly]

am I missing something, that roundabout is the most uncongested junction in the whole of Pattaya, at least it is when I have ever used it, more roundabouts across the city might actually improve traffic flow, all they need to do is force them to use them properly but that would require some level of law enforcement   

[alant]

it ceased to be a roundabout yonks ago

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, champers said:

A possible solution could be to keep the roundabout and install traffic lights to control flow. Cameras ought to be installed too to capture those running red lights. The left turn up Nua and U turn to get to the beach needs to dissappear.

This type of arrangement is common in the UK but usually at larger roundabouts.

Something has to be done in readiness for the opening of Terminal 21, otherwise chaos will ensue.

The "plan" as presented in a graphic in the original Dolphin roundabout thread shows a 4-way intersection, all controlled by traffic lights with slip roads for the Dusit entrance and Naklua Soi 24. No more u-turns.

 

 

[AhFarangJa]

Considering how many people here actually know how to use one properly, I propose the following replacement...

 

[Justgrazing]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

am I missing something, that roundabout is the most uncongested junction in the whole of Pattaya, at least it is when I have ever used it, more roundabouts across the city might actually improve traffic flow, all they need to do is force them to use them properly but that would require some level of law enforcement   

Roundabouts are a product of those damned farangs and you know how much they loath adopting anything Western here apart from um mobiles , cars , a/c , electricity , ATM's ,  etc etc .. 

[topt]

6 hours ago, khwaibah said:

 

Thousand could give a rats arse less and want better traffic flow and safety. Turn it into sushi. 

 

2 hours ago, smedly said:

am I missing something, that roundabout is the most uncongested junction in the whole of Pattaya, at least it is when I have ever used it,

Agreed. Personally I think traffic lights as planned will create more congestion and more accidents from red light running when there is less traffic about.

[monspencer]

I vote to leave the roundabout there. It would be a shame to see it go. 

 

The majority of Thai drivers will never be able to get to grips with that layout shown in the plan, as well as probably many foreigners. It will be utter mayhem with accidents galore.

 

[Moonmoon]

GoodLuck, I remember that when they removed the roundabout in my area, which was a drastic improvement to the traffic flow, it took the contractors six months to do it. In that 6 months of cos, due to poor planning they cause traffic jams for a few hours everyday.

[champers]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

am I missing something, that roundabout is the most uncongested junction in the whole of Pattaya, at least it is when I have ever used it, more roundabouts across the city might actually improve traffic flow, all they need to do is force them to use them properly but that would require some level of law enforcement   

There can be some very long tailbacks on 2nd Road when the BIB are stopping motorcyclists to issue fines.

I wonder if their box will remain in place when Terminal 21 opens. Where will the parking and delivery entrances and exits be for Terminal 21?

[balo]

I have no problems with roundabouts in Thailand. This is a landmark and it would be sad to see it go. Where can I sign the petition ?

[gintis0604]

If they make it a roundabout, as they call it, the traffic flow would improve.

(If the Thais can learn drive in a roundabout).

8 hours ago, champers said:

A possible solution could be to keep the roundabout and install traffic lights to control flow. Cameras ought to be installed too to capture those running red lights. The left turn up Nua and U turn to get to the beach needs to dissappear.

This type of arrangement is common in the UK but usually at larger roundabouts.

Something has to be done in readiness for the opening of Terminal 21, otherwise chaos will ensue.

Why do people call it a roundabout? You can't drive around!

Pattaya has NO roundabout anymore, since they closed that in Jomtien.

They SHOULD need 100-eds, different sizes, instead of all stupid, dangerous u-turns.

Those who are responsible for traffic in Pattaya must be on the run from a mental hospital.

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, monspencer said:

The majority of Thai drivers will never be able to get to grips with that layout shown in the plan, as well as probably many foreigners. It will be utter mayhem with accidents galore.

 

 

Yes they will, same as other intersections w/ lights.

 

3 hours ago, topt said:

 

Agreed. Personally I think traffic lights as planned will create more congestion and more accidents from red light running when there is less traffic about.

 

No, that doesn't happen much w/ the other intersections. Got some examples of accidents cause by running red lights at Klang/3rd Rd.? Didn't think so.

 

3 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Roundabouts are a product of those damned farangs and you know how much they loath adopting anything Western here apart from um mobiles , cars , a/c , electricity , ATM's ,  etc etc .. 

 

Thai bashing nonsense.

 

5 hours ago, smedly said:

am I missing something, that roundabout is the most uncongested junction in the whole of Pattaya

 

 

Gets quite congested, is dangerous, and is a high accident area. Wish I had a baht for every chalk mark I've seen there.

 

9 hours ago, johnnybgood said:

The city population is being shafted by the powers that be ....\.

 

 

No. The city population and tourists (including domestic, which TAT: TVF refuses to acknowledge) will like this better, esp when T21 gets going--OMG.

 

7 hours ago, mikebell said:

It's just another building scheme to enable back-handers.

 

 

No, it's a building scheme to improve traffic flow, just as the promenade greatly improved the flow down Beach Rd. Try to get over the tea money/brown envelope obsession.

 

24 minutes ago, gintis0604 said:

If they make it a roundabout, as they call it, the traffic flow would improve.

 

 

No, they did that it and finally there were SO many accidents and backups they rerouted southbound Naklua traffic to a U-turn, which is most inconvenient.

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by JSixpack

[topt]

31 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

No, that doesn't happen much w/ the other intersections. Got some examples of accidents cause by running red lights at Klang/3rd Rd.? Didn't think so.

Well actually at the next junction up towards Nua........

31 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

Gets quite congested, is dangerous, and is a high accident area. Wish I had a baht for every chalk mark I've seen there

Do you actually drive JSixpack? Do you have some comparative statistics for that junction vs comparable others?

I use it and find it less congested generally than your example of 3rd and Klang which I use even more - but maybe it is just dependent on the time of day.........

[JSixpack]

26 minutes ago, topt said:

Well actually at the next junction up towards Nua........

 

 

Tell us about the number of accidents caused by light jumping at 3rd/Nua then, pal.

 

Quote

Do you actually drive JSixpack?

 

 

Lived all around Pattaya for a couple of decades and driven a motorbike almost daily in Pattaya, in all conditions, all times of day. Was out today in fact and even went thru the roundabout. Good 'nuff? Let's hear yours.

 

Quote

Do you have some comparative statistics for that junction vs comparable others?

 

 

Any comparable junction is sufficient to disprove your point. 3rd/Klang will do just fine. Frequent heavy backups there, in fact I hit one today. There are heavy backups at the roundabout particularly on holiday weekends and festivals. Then traffic southbound on Naklua must try to get across traffic on Nua to get to the U-turn and it ain't fun. And the confusion at the roundabout is pretty hazardous.

 

You have no stats at all from any comparable intersection to back up your assertion but were just indulging in a sly little stereotypical bash. You have no actual reason to assume a high accident rate, or any accident rate from you actually know, from light jumping at the erstwhile roundabout.

 

Quote

I use it and find it less congested generally than your example of 3rd and Klang which I use even more - but maybe it is just dependent on the time of day.........

 

Time of day obviously affects traffic conditions at all the intersections as it will at the erstwhile roundabout. Point is that if they're not jumping 3rd/Klang much, which, yes, is worse right now, why will they at the new light?  Next.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by JSixpack

[Moti24]

"Hundreds have signed already to save the roundabout that engineers say must go to improve traffic flow."

 

The traffic flow would improve if the Thais are educated as to what a roundabout is for, and how to use it.  The same goes for crossroads, where yellow boxes are painted on the road, and zebra crossings.  

[Moonmoon]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

am I missing something, that roundabout is the most uncongested junction in the whole of Pattaya, at least it is when I have ever used it, more roundabouts across the city might actually improve traffic flow, all they need to do is force them to use them properly but that would require some level of law enforcement   

I can tell u something, it is just a scam to ask for money to improve the road conditions while pocketing part of the money meant for contractors. After a few years, they will suggest something else and ask for mony again to improve so that they can pocket the money again. Dont ask me, my mother in law who is an expert in matters like this told me so.

[JSixpack]

38 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

"Hundreds have signed already to save the roundabout that engineers say must go to improve traffic flow."

 

The traffic flow would improve if the Thais are educated as to what a roundabout is for, and how to use it.  The same goes for crossroads, where yellow boxes are painted on the road, and zebra crossings.  

 

That's not going to happen. Next.

[digbeth]

I wonder what happened to the mermaids? that was on the bottom of Pattaya Klang on the beach promenade, it used to be such a symbol of the city that they built stage around it for the music festival and that got televised nationwide. Since the walkway re-do it's gone

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Moonmoon said:

I can tell u something, it is just a scam to ask for money to improve the road conditions while pocketing part of the money meant for contractors. After a few years, they will suggest something else and ask for mony again to improve so that they can pocket the money again. Dont ask me, my mother in law who is an expert in matters like this told me so.

I actually agree with you, a lot of the senseless work that goes on around the city is so that there is always something to skim from

[Sydebolle]

Let's face it - someone has to make some money again.

All, I repeat, ALL traffic lights along the railway were never switched on. Same applies to the intersections at Wat Suttawat, Siam Country Road's Mitrkamol intersection as well as the intersection in Nong Prue. 

Millions of wasted tax Baht for traffic light systems which are purposely not switched on. Now, go figure what happens with the Dolphin roundabout. Same mess as on Jomtien 2nd Road; that roundabout disappeared and since then it's a mess! 

[Justgrazing]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

Tell us about the number of accidents caused by light jumping at 3rd/Nua then, pal.

 

 

Lived all around Pattaya for a couple of decades and driven a motorbike almost daily in Pattaya, in all conditions, all times of day. Was out today in fact and even went thru the roundabout. Good 'nuff? Let's hear yours.

 

 

Any comparable junction is sufficient to disprove your point. 3rd/Klang will do just fine. Frequent heavy backups there, in fact I hit one today. There are heavy backups at the roundabout particularly on holiday weekends and festivals. Then traffic southbound on Naklua must try to get across traffic on Nua to get to the U-turn and it ain't fun. And the confusion at the roundabout is pretty hazardous.

 

You have no stats at all from any comparable intersection to back up your assertion but were just indulging in a sly little stereotypical bash. You have no actual reason to assume a high accident rate, or any accident rate from you actually know, from light jumping at the erstwhile roundabout.

 

 

Time of day obviously affects traffic conditions at all the intersections as it will at the erstwhile roundabout. Point is that if they're not jumping 3rd/Klang much, which, yes, is worse right now, why will they at the new light?  Next.

 

 

Utter rubbish 2nd sentence onwards .. It is cars that are driven motorcycles are ridden .. Everything that followed is irrelevant as motorbikes will get thru' traffic much faster and are less prone to hold up's ( unless of course you're bike has one if those home-made sidecar thingys on it and if it has its still ridden not driven ) .. Motorbike traffic by definition will always move faster than 4 wheel traffic however its controlled ( lights , roundabouts , signs , etc ) The volume of 4 wheel and up traffic here now requires a radical review to deal with not only present problems but also the future .. Computer control of lights is the future even though roundabouts keep traffic moving they require structure adherence to the rules and take up more road space .. The methodical way that some nations take to evaluate these things before arriving at a solution is a  ?  

Answers on a post kids ..  

 

As for the roundabout itself and the love and affection that people hold for it why not try and raise some sort of protected status for it .. THE original roundabout constructed in Bath ( so now you know who to blame ..  those damned Brits ) 1796 is considered of historic importance and has been preserved .. Just a thought to keep a bit of Patt's image before it gets concreted over ..  

[topt]

3 hours ago, JSixpack said:

You have no stats at all from any comparable intersection to back up your assertion but were just indulging in a sly little stereotypical bash. You have no actual reason to assume a high accident rate, or any accident rate from you actually know, from light jumping at the erstwhile roundabout.

As far as stats go neither do you but you have missed one salient fact in your overriding wish to seemingly crush any and all views that don't gell with your own - I said "Personally I think...."  - and I did not suggest the accident rate would be "high". This is my opinion, different to yours and we can agree to disagree - or we should be able to........

 

So nothing "sly"  and no "bashing" that I was aware of. Having almost been taken out multiple times by red light jumpers and seeing it happen with others at the junction I mentioned on an almost daily basis or are you suggesting that I am making that up as well.......

[JSixpack]

59 minutes ago, Justgrazing said:

It is cars that are driven motorcycles are ridden ..

2

 

That's a subject of debate, actually, and both terms are commonly used. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/21073/does-one-drive-a-motorcycle-or-ride-it.

 

Forum rules prohibit grammar police, BTW. That's why I don't get to correct your mistakes. Nor is the discussion affected materially by the usage of one term over the other.

 

Quote

Everything that followed is irrelevant as motorbikes will get thru' traffic much faster and are less prone to hold up's ( unless of course you're bike has one if those home-made sidecar thingys on it and if it has its still ridden not driven ) .. Motorbike traffic by definition will always move faster than 4 wheel traffic however its controlled ( lights , roundabouts , signs , etc

6

 

A motorbike's moving faster or not has nothing to do w/ whether a light will improve the overall traffic situation at the roundabout. It has nothing to do with whether more accidents will occur at that intersection because lights are there because vehicles will jump the lights. As I noted, there's no reason to think any such thing.

 

Quote

) The volume of 4 wheel and up traffic here now requires a radical review to deal with not only present problems but also the future .. Computer control of lights is the future even though roundabouts keep traffic moving they require structure adherence to the rules and take up more road space .. The methodical way that some nations take to evaluate these things before arriving at a solution is a  ?  

Answers on a post kids ..  

As for the roundabout itself and the love and affection that people hold for it why not try and raise some sort of protected status for it .. THE original roundabout constructed in Bath ( so now you know who to blame ..  those damned Brits ) 1796 is considered of historic importance and has been preserved .. Just a thought to keep a bit of Patt's image before it gets concreted over .. 

7

 

Have another one, pal. Next.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.   Stay on topic and treat others in a civil manner. 

 

[JSixpack]

50 minutes ago, topt said:

I said "Personally I think...."  - and I did not suggest the accident rate would be "high". This is my opinion, different to yours and we can agree to disagree - or we should be able to.......

 

But you see I also said "or any accident rate." I know it's your opinion and I'm merely saying you don't have a rational basis for that opinion. You may cling to it if you wish. People often mistake me for somebody who cares one way or the other. 

 

Quote

Having almost been taken out multiple times by red light jumpers and seeing it happen with others at the junction I mentioned on an almost daily basis or are you suggesting that I am making that up as well.......

 

 

Almost being taken out isn't the same as being taken out. It's rather easy to be almost taken out most everywhere in Pattaya. And yes you may be making it up of course. BTW, you didn't give your driving credentials as I did, so I take it mine are the more impressive. Suffice it to say if you've almost been taken out at standard intersections with lights "on an almost daily basis" then you'll almost be taken out on a daily basis at the roundabout. It is in fact rather notorious for accidents, though there are fewer vehicles trying to go thru it (compared to, say, 3rd/Klang)  because it's a roundabout. Drivers run into your lane and take your right-of-way in the roundabout much more often than they run lights at a normal intersection. Most members experienced w/ that roundabout would seem to agree on that point, but do feel free to disagree.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/629566-go-go-dancer-killed-in-road-crash-at-north-pattaya-dolphin-roundabout/

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/397193-fatal-pattaya-baht-bus-accident-caused-by-drunk-canadian/

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/786761-mystery-surrounds-single-vehicle-road-crash-at-north-pattaya-dolphin-roundabout/

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/598715-another-motocy-accident-and-almost-one-more/

 

Those are just some high profiles. As I said, wish I had a baht for all the chalk marks I've seen there over the years. Hence it's a half-roundabout now w/ the U turn and that's actually better, has led to fewer accidents, but is messy and would surely get much worse when T21 opens. Hence the light is a good idea, as I said back in 2013. I'd much rather have it even though it likely means a little more delay usually.

 

I'd hate to think what would happen if they replaced the lights at 3rd/Klang or 2nd/Klang w/ roundabouts.

 

So that brings us back to my original statement: No, that doesn't happen much w/ the other intersections. Got some examples of accidents caused by running red lights at Klang/3rd Rd.? Didn't think so.