Pheu Thai dismisses report that Yingluck pushing for sister to lead party

[Yinglove]

Just now, Ricardo said:

You can be against some of the things the junta does, and against some of the things TRT/PPP/PTP did  ...

...  and still hope that democracy and freedom eventually win !

I don't think it's possible to support the junta at any level and still support a return to democracy.

The junta's sole purpose is to deny a return to democracy.

It is one or the other.

Whatever ones thought are regarding PTP and the Shinawatra's are irrelevant to this equation.

[Yinglove]

3 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

After all the blah blah woof woof about "democracy" etc ...the current administration is probably the best(for most Thais) in Thailand's history.

blah, blah blah....woof, woof, woof...why the fear of an election then?

(could it be most Thais hate the Junta because they are one of the worst administrations ever?)

[wakeupplease]

3 hours ago, Yinglove said:

I guess you can, it's a bit silly though, kind of like watching a game of football and hoping both sides lose.

Or sticking your finger in a hole in the Dyke when it would be better suited sticking it in your mouth

[Ricardo]

13 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

I don't think it's possible to support the junta at any level and still support a return to democracy.

The junta's sole purpose is to deny a return to democracy.

It is one or the other.

Whatever ones thought are regarding PTP and the Shinawatra's are irrelevant to this equation.

 

Somehow I didn't expect that one who loves Yingluck would stand up for my right to disagree, and you didn't disappoint me !

 

At least you're consistent, over the years !  Anything which goes against the party-line is "irrelevant" !  Yes Boss !

[Srikcir]

6 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Somehow I didn't expect that one who loves Yingluck

The "equation" that Yinglove refers to I believe is love for democracy, irrespective of any political party.

But obviously, there are political (and for the sake of the military the so-called nonpolitical) factions who aggressively deconstruct any democratic institutions when democratic institutions begin to reach beyond autocratic control.

[halloween]

32 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

I don't think it's possible to support the junta at any level and still support a return to democracy.

The junta's sole purpose is to deny a return to democracy.

It is one or the other.

Whatever ones thought are regarding PTP and the Shinawatra's are irrelevant to this equation.

Well as you suggest that they would be re-elected, thoughts on PTP would be what democracy here would  be like. The answer is "ugly". But only if your moral standards reject blatant corruption as the price to be paid.

Edited August 13, 2017 by halloween

[wakeupplease]

Just ask yourself

 

Why have there been so many coups here Hub Of coups is it not.

Why are all Politicians supposed to be corrupt except those in the yellowish set up.

Why are the greens and browns so rich on pay most of use would not get out of bed for.

Why is a certain family always blamed for nearly every event here.

Why is a certain budget so large compared to any other country.

Why do Hiso's/elites get away with even murder.

 

Why

[Eric Loh]

15 minutes ago, halloween said:

Well as you suggest that they would be re-elected, thoughts on PTP would be what democracy here would  be like. The answer is "ugly". But only if your moral standards reject blatant corruption as the price to be paid.

Where does your moral standards stand at this current times when there are so much blatant corruption; some of which can't even be discussed. 

[473geo]

Well there were some TVisa  'experts' predicting PTP could lose the last completed election....and then Yingluck appeared

 

So I guess there will be keen interest in the successor.........

[halloween]

21 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Where does your moral standards stand at this current times when there are so much blatant corruption; some of which can't even be discussed. 

They stay on the subject, much as you would divert it.

[Srikcir]

36 minutes ago, halloween said:

The answer is "ugly".

Democracy as seen through the eyes of the autocracy is always an ugly affair.

Equality, transparency and accountability under the written rule of law is a disturbing experience for the autocratic "exceptionalism" that must transcend the rule of the majority.

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

 

 

 

...  and still hope that democracy and freedom eventually win !

And yet, Thais still remain, largely, independent and free and self-sufficient in their everyday - and always have been, regardless of government identity.

[Yinglove]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Well as you suggest that they would be re-elected, thoughts on PTP would be what democracy here would  be like. The answer is "ugly". But only if your moral standards reject blatant corruption as the price to be paid.

Oh, the corruption red herring.

In Thailand corruption is the only constant so it is irrelevant as well.

Unless of course you are seriously proposing that there is no or less corruption under the junta than there was under Yingluck.

In which case

 

[Yinglove]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

 

Somehow I didn't expect that one who loves Yingluck would stand up for my right to disagree, and you didn't disappoint me !

 

At least you're consistent, over the years !  Anything which goes against the party-line is "irrelevant" !  Yes Boss !

I certainly don't oppose your right to disagree, I just think you're wrong.

Now you wouldn't be refusing to stand up for my right to believe you're wrong would you?

That would be disappointing.

[onthesoi]

3 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

Oh, the corruption red herring.

In Thailand corruption is the only constant so it is irrelevant as well.

Unless of course you are seriously proposing that there is no or less corruption under the junta than there was under Yingluck.

In which case

 

 

There is less corruption and more enforcement of anti-corruption now than at any other time in Thailand's history.

 

If you think differently, either you weren't here 20+ years ago or led a very sheltered life moving between between your Pattaya barstool and hotel room.

[Yinglove]

11 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

There is less corruption and more enforcement of anti-corruption now than at any other time in Thailand's history.

 

If you think differently, either you weren't here 20+ years ago or led a very sheltered life moving between between your Pattaya barstool and hotel room.

Absolutely, irrefutable one hundred and ten percent incorrect.

Corruption is worse, oversight is worse, Transparency International rankings are worse.

 

Just how many went to jail over the Rajabhakti park corruption... oh that's right zero people.

Wonder why that is?

 

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news.php?id=84085

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Yinglove

[halloween]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Democracy as seen through the eyes of the autocracy is always an ugly affair.

Equality, transparency and accountability under the written rule of law is a disturbing experience for the autocratic "exceptionalism" that must transcend the rule of the majority.

'"Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half the time. " When that majority are prepared to ignore crime and sell their nation's interest for a "cheap" bribe (which they pay for themselves), yes, it can be ugly.  Where were 'Equality, transparency and accountability" under our last government?

[Yinglove]

Just now, halloween said:

'"Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half the time. " When that majority are prepared to ignore crime and sell their nation's interest for a "cheap" bribe (which they pay for themselves), yes, it can be ugly.  Where were 'Equality, transparency and accountability" under our last government?

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

 

If it benefits the poor, it's a bribe. If it benefits the rich, it's sound policy.

 

Where is equality, transparency and accountability under the current government?

[robblok]

5 hours ago, Yinglove said:

I guess you can, it's a bit silly though, kind of like watching a game of football and hoping both sides lose.

Difference is that this is not football. 

 

The junta can have good and bad idea's and even the Shin can have good Idea's. I bet that if you supported a soccer team you would not agree with every decisions the management made buying and selling players.. or with every position of they put players at ?

[Yinglove]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Difference is that this is not football. 

 

The junta can have good and bad idea's and even the Shin can have good Idea's. I bet that if you supported a soccer team you would not agree with every decisions the management made buying and selling players.. or with every position of they put players at ?

Yeah, it's called an analogy.

 

I'm sure that Saddam Hussein, Mummer Gaddafi and Idi Amin all had their fair share of good ideas - that doesn't make any of them any more palatable though.

So good ideas or not, the junta is inimical to democracy.

Junta or democracy - pick one.

 

 

 

[halloween]

18 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

 

If it benefits the poor, it's a bribe. If it benefits the rich, it's sound policy.

 

Where is equality, transparency and accountability under the current government?

Well there was no doubt in anybody's mind that it was sound policy was there? As for 'e, t & a' I didn't claim it exists now,  I pointed out that it was in very short supply under your "democratic" love. But that isn't in your agenda, is it?

[zzaa09]

16 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

If you believe that you zip up the back mate. 

 

20 years ago we had a government that was toppled largely by the corruption of one man, Suthep Thaugsuban. If you recall he was involved in a large scale land corruption scandal. 

Then he turned up conveniently again in 2013-14 heading a public protest against corruption.

 

A man that was referred to as 'the most corrupt and ruthless' in Thai politics by his colleagues in the Democrat Party cabinet. 

 

Corruption flourishes under autocratic, hardline regimes such as this, when the perpetrators cannot be found guilty they tend to abuse the position. Much like military regimes in the past; Sanit, Tharit etc. 

 

It's a money grab, nothing more and nothing less.

They're all one-n-the-same, historically. The defensive comparatives from one era to the another is surely ridiculous. 

Pretty much remains the same as it has forever - little has changed and certainly as it stands presently.

 

Though, I can appreciate the romantic notions that some might have towards this and that and bygone days.

The shit has been no different from the 1930s up to the present - varying degrees here and there over comparative times.

[Yinglove]

Just now, halloween said:

Well there was no doubt in anybody's mind that it was sound policy was there? As for 'e, t & a' I didn't claim it exists now,  I pointed out that it was in very short supply under your "democratic" love. But that isn't in your agenda, is it?

The previous government actually had more than one policy.

 

So it's a problem if it's in short supply under my "democratic love" but its just fine if it's completely absent under the Junta.

 

 

[halloween]

Just now, Yinglove said:

Yeah, it's called an analogy.

 

I'm sure that Saddam Hussein, Mummer Gaddafi and Idi Amin all had their fair share of good ideas - that doesn't make any of them any more palatable though.

So good ideas or not, the junta is inimical to democracy.

Junta or democracy - pick one.

 

 

 

Actually, the choice is the junta or the criminal conspiracy pretending to be some perverted form of democracy.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

Yeah, it's called an analogy.

 

I'm sure that Saddam Hussein, Mummer Gaddafi and Idi Amin all had their fair share of good ideas - that doesn't make any of them any more palatable though.

So good ideas or not, the junta is inimical to democracy.

Junta or democracy - pick one.

 

 

 

I would not go as far as to compare Thaksin with those lot.. but ok if you say so. 

 

If I pick democracy that means no Shins, because having a convicted criminal leading a party from abroad and paying the MP's a salary is not something a democracy is. So there are actually no choices.

[Yinglove]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

Well there was no doubt in anybody's mind that it was sound policy was there? As for 'e, t & a' I didn't claim it exists now,  I pointed out that it was in very short supply under your "democratic" love. But that isn't in your agenda, is it?

The previous government actually had more than one policy.

 

So it's a problem if it's in short supply under my "democratic love" but it's just fin if it's completely absent under the current regime?

[Yinglove]

1 minute ago, halloween said:

Actually, the choice is the junta or the criminal conspiracy pretending to be some perverted form of democracy.

No it's not.

The "criminal conspiracy pretending to be some perverted form of democracy" has zero power or authority without being elected first.

 

Junta or Democracy - pick one.

[halloween]

Just now, Yinglove said:

The previous government actually had more than one policy.

 

So it's a problem if it's in short supply under my "democratic love" but its just fine if it's completely absent under the Junta.

 

 

Yes and most of them were "elect me" scams that cost the nation dearly. The rice scam, the fabulous educational leap forward of the tablet scam, cheap cars, cheap homes and pay rises for everyone. But all with one aim, elect us so we can rob you again.

[Yinglove]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

I would not go as far as to compare Thaksin with those lot.. but ok if you say so. 

 

If I pick democracy that means no Shins, because having a convicted criminal leading a party from abroad and paying the MP's a salary is not something a democracy is. So there are actually no choices.

If you pick democracy then the Thai voters decide who is in and who is out.

[halloween]

Just now, Yinglove said:

No it's not.

The "criminal conspiracy pretending to be some perverted form of democracy" has zero power or authority without being elected first.

 

Junta or Democracy - pick one.

Ah, the simplistic view. If you are elected, you must be a democracy. I didn't know we were arguing at kindergarten level.