Wiring of Pump Magic Box

[carlyai]

I need to supply power to a 2 HP pump and a pool chlorinator power supply.

 

I bought one of those magic pump control boxes which has a circuit breaker, contactor, thermal overload, and various buttons and voltage and current meters.

 

I also bought an under/over voltage protector and a time switch.

 

I planned to mount them in the magic pump box and connect them into the existing circuits.

 

I need help on deciding where to connect them into the existing circuit.

 

I think the under/over protector will go straight after the breaker and switch the contactor.

 

I'm not sure where to place the timer. Probably the easiest place would be at the output of the control box to the pump and chlorinator.

 

Where would be the best places to incorporate the under/over protector and the timer?

 

 

 

 

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[carlyai]

On second thoughts, I think I'll go from the breaker to the timeclock, then to the OU protector and then contactor.



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[carlyai]

Well again after an executive decision I installed the time switch then the OU voltage protector to the contactor. Seems to work, like lights come on, definitely a good start. [emoji3]

These pump control boxes seem great value, cheap too. Mine was damaged so even cheaper.

The only thing I did notice while I was rewiring is that the piggy backed crimp connectors had one of their half-moon terminals cut off as they must not have fitted under the connection screw.

Load test on Monday.



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[Pdaz]

Where did you buy the OU voltage protector ? Any brand or link ?

[carlyai]

@Pdaz Hi, I bought mine in Roiet at Bangkok Outlet.

I've used these types before on the pumps around the back.

There's another type that@Crossy mentioned for the incoming mains protection, probably better, but I need to rearrange things first.

The other type and specs. is on a Lioa voltage regulator thread on Thaivisa.

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[Pdaz]

20 minutes ago, carlyai said:

@Pdaz Hi, I bought mine in Roiet at Bangkok Outlet.

I've used these types before on the pumps around the back.

There's another type that@Crossy mentioned for the incoming mains protection, probably better, but I need to rearrange things first.

The other type and specs. is on a Lioa voltage regulator thread on Thaivisa.

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Thanks. I have a similar pump/timer and chlorinator setup and have had a few contactors burn out recently because of low voltage / brown-outs.

Was looking for something to protect the circuit. Not expensive to replace the contactor but a P in the A.

[carlyai]

@Pdaz You may consider the incoming mains protection like in the Lioa thread.

I think with these installed you protect, as much as possible, everything.

A few weeks ago, after floods, strong winds etc. we had a major outage. When PEA fixed the problem, they must have connected everything back wrongly, resulted in blowing up the community houses lights, tvs, and my stabaliser had a fit. Luckily it didn't catch fire.

With these phase protectors you probably don't need individual ones for the pump and chlorinator.

Do you have a thermal overload relay in with the contactor?

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[Pdaz]

24 minutes ago, carlyai said:

@Pdaz You may consider the incoming mains protection like in the Lioa thread.

I think with these installed you protect, as much as possible, everything.

A few weeks ago, after floods, strong winds etc. we had a major outage. When PEA fixed the problem, they must have connected everything back wrongly, resulted in blowing up the community houses lights, tvs, and my stabaliser had a fit. Luckily it didn't catch fire.

With these phase protectors you probably don't need individual ones for the pump and chlorinator.

Do you have a thermal overload relay in with the contactor?

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Yeah I just read that thread. You had a lucky escape. I checked out the units Crossy suggested on AliExpress. Will do some more research and maybe a post on my setup. I'm away from home at the moment so it will have to wait a few weeks.

[maxpower]

Fascinating purchase.

 

The dead man danger sticker near the door catch is quite amusing when you consider the lack of grounds on the steel cabinet and door.

Whoever built this control panel should go back to driving buses.

[Artisi]

On Saturday, August 19, 2017 at 0:51 PM, maxpower said:

Fascinating purchase.

 

The dead man danger sticker near the door catch is quite amusing when you consider the lack of grounds on the steel cabinet and door.

Whoever built this control panel should go back to driving buses.

Dead by bus or dead by electrocution is still dead. 

[carlyai]

Fascinating purchase.

 

The dead man danger sticker near the door catch is quite amusing when you consider the lack of grounds on the steel cabinet and door.

Whoever built this control panel should go back to driving buses.

Good thinking, I'll earth the case.

 

There is earth leakage protection, not in this box, but on the feed to the box.

 

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[carlyai]

Well the case and door are earthed.

Now trouble is the contactor doesn't energise. Never tried it before the rewiring.
I can't find a wiring diagram, on the internet, for the contactor.

There's volts in, but no output.

Gotta be something to do with the wiring, I hope.

Probably good if these magic boxes supplied the data sheets on the components used.

It will all come clear tomorrow.

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[carlyai]

Fascinating purchase.
 
The dead man danger sticker near the door catch is quite amusing when you consider the lack of grounds on the steel cabinet and door.
Whoever built this control panel should go back to driving buses.

I've done my earthing, now put a pic up of your CU door earthing.

If you talk the talk, then walk the walk. [emoji2]

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[maxpower]

4 hours ago, carlyai said:

Well the case and door are earthed.

Now trouble is the contactor doesn't energise. Never tried it before the rewiring.
I can't find a wiring diagram, on the internet, for the contactor.
 

Looks like a Shenzhen market contactor

A1 coil
A2 coil

43 Aux NO
44 Aux NO
31 Aux NC
32 Aux NC

L1 Feed
L2 Feed
L3 Feed

T1 Load
T2 Load
T3 Load

 

I am guessing that before you made mods the contactor latched itself via the overload and stop button. Now you want it to switch from a clock with auto/man function.

[carlyai]

@maxpower Thank you.

 

I'll look first thing.

 

Before the rewiring, the contactor was fed from the circuit breaker.

 

I just changed the 220 v feed to come from the clock.

 

But as you correctly say I've not thought of the interlocks.

 

Thanks for the pin outs.

 

 

 

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[carlyai]

All seems to be working...didn't have the front panel switches correctly positioned.

When I put it on the bench and traced out the circuit it all became clearer.

I shorted out the start switch as not needed with the timer.

The OU volts protector is a bit light on as only 5A per contact so I parelled these up to give 10 A....should have put in a more robust OU protector.

With the 2 Hp pump and chlorinator it's about 10 A.

The supply to the contactor L1and L3 as well as the relay coil A1 and A2 come from the UO volts protector.

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[Crossy]

The O/U unit is intended to drive a contactor coil, expecting it to switch a 2 horse pump (let's say 30A start current) will significantly shorten its life.

 

Time for a re-wire methinks.

[carlyai]

OK thank you.

Let me think a bit.

Also my timer is only rated at 15 A.

Don't know what I can do about that.

The pump current rating on the plate attached to the pump says 8 A.






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[maxpower]

6 hours ago, carlyai said:

OK thank you.

Let me think a bit.

Also my timer is only rated at 15 A.

Don't know what I can do about that.

The pump current rating on the plate attached to the pump says 8 A.






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Quick diagram to help you along.
You can see that the timer, voltage sensor and overload contacts only carry the small current required to energize the contactor. This is called the control circuit which gets supplied and protected by the small fuse in your box. The contactor then handles the motors heavy load on a separate circuit.

 

Voltage sense and overload contacts are normally closed. They remain closed until a fault condition occurs.
Timer contact is normally open. Closes during set time periods.

 

I am on night shift for next few days so can't help much.

 

[carlyai]

Thank you again.

 

You know I actually did study this in my diploma in Electronics and Communications, back in my 20 s, but never used it, as you can tell. [emoji3]

 

 

 

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[carlyai]

Thank you again.
 
You know I actually did study this in my diploma in Electronics and Communications, back in my 20 s, but never used it, as you can tell. [emoji3]
 
 
 
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Got this right: pic 1

Got this wrong: pic 2



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[carlyai]

Well 3rd time lucky.

New diagram and rewired.

Need to get something to cover the terminal strip and door wiring.



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[maxpower]

6 hours ago, carlyai said:

Well 3rd time lucky.

New diagram and rewired.

Need to get something to cover the terminal strip and door wiring.



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Good job.

Panel coatings are very poor here. A very light mist with anti corrosion spray helps in these humid conditions.  Not too heavy around contactors though.

 

[carlyai]

@maxpower Thanks again for you help and that diagram.

I searched the internet the internet looking for a wiring diagram, but yours was the one that showed the basic wiring.

Will drive into Roiet today and see if I can get some clear plastic and standoffs and make some strips to cover the terminals so don't touch live.

I did notice with this bought control box, that not only had they cut some connection terminals in half, to make them easier to fit, but the circuit was wrong. The springsets lever and make or break contacts were sometimes reversed.



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