Acrimonious Divorce

[DoneTravelling]

Ii guys and sorry if this has been asked before, I searched but could not find anything quite the same.

 

I am going through a hell of a time with my wife of 9 years. I am Brit she is Thai. I was working overseas in a very well paid job and would visit here every 2 months. We are legally married in Thailand. I bought a house and put it in her name, I bought land and put in her name. I bought everything for the house, paid for her kids schooling including University, bought cars, motorbikes etc. Gave her a stupid monthly allowance and more. I know I am stupid but I could not believe she would turn out how she has.

Now we are in the throws of divorce. I am now on my second lawyer, the first seemed to be working for my wife more than me and drafted an agreement that would have given me a divorce and nothing else. My new lawyer is now stating I have to pay him a percentage of the settlement even before the assets are sold, if we can ever agree them. I'm lost I don't trust the lawyers to be straight with me, all meetings are held in Thai then I am told after what has gone on. It has become impossible to reach agreement with the wife as every time we agree the next day she disagrees and refuses to sign. We have not gone to court yet as my lawyer is asking 1m before we even start the process. I have discussed with other lawyers and most seem to want a percentage, I am in Hua Hin so do not really want a Bangkok lawyer.

My life here is a disaster now, we are in the same house but never talk. I have had thugs threaten me, been falsely accused of defamation, I continually watch my back and always keep the doors locked.

Has anyone else been through such an ordeal with lawyers and wives. How did you proceed?

 

Please guys I know many will show sympathy or say just walk away, I don't need that right now I need good solid advise from people who have been through similar.

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by DoneTravelling

[swissie]

.....As a starting point: Assets aquired during marriage are split equally 50/50. This applies to Thai-couples as well as Farang/Thai couples. Not really rocket-science.
If your Thai-Lawyer(s) are not familiar with this, you have definitely ended up with the "wrong"-lawyer(s).
- Be prepaired to lose 50% of your "investments", but no need to walk away with a 100% loss.

"I know I am stupid but I could not believe she would turn out how she has."
You were not "stupid" just "trusting", like many others before you.

It is not unheard of, that ladies marry Farangs with long term financial goals in mind. Once those financial goals are reached, they may decide that this is a good time to "cash-in" and "bail-out" (mission accomplished!)
Depending on the "financial-goals", the "bail-out-point" may be reached after 2 years, 5 years or 15 years of marriage.
OP's wife may have decided, that the time to bail-out has arrived. Again, "mission accomplished".
Good luck & cheers.

[sandrabbit]

You might want to read 59 pages of this topic to see some similarities to your position.

 

 

swissie is correct about the 50/50, when we purchased property/land in my wife's name my name was on the the chanoute title deed as well.

[davidst01]

Play her bluff. If it goes to court it will cost her a lot of money that she probably doesnt have either. Go to one of her friends and mediate through that person. Give her 50% subject to no contact with lawyers. 

 

A 2nd thing is to do nothing. Stop visiting the lawyers, tell her you dont want a divorce. She will know this means no money. Then later down the line when she starts behaving negotiate through the friend and do the divorce. 

 

That British guy in Phuket who was defrauded of his houses (the one who was on national media) always said he could not find an honest lawyer. He said that was his biggest problem. 

 

Good luck 

[edwardflory]

I have a friend that got a bail out ( kicked out ) after 20 years of marriage. They lived overseas for 17 years, amassed a good deal of tangible and intangible property, land and HOUSE in Thailand ( plus help OTHER family members cars, houses and etc ) in name of wife...Bad lawyer, lost almost everything, had 5 days to leave country.

 

GET A GOOD LAWYER IS THE BEST ADVISE.....a company that does international law possibly

[stephenterry]

I'm very sorry to hear of your harassment, that's really bad news. And it's difficult to provide advice not knowing the financial situation - and whether it's easy to sell land and property. I take it (living in Hua Hin), that considerable assets are at stake and a 1 million baht fee or a % of sold assets could be reasonable. 

 

IMO, she's very aware of the 50-50 split and is trying to make you walk away from all the hassle, thereby retaining 100%. While they might be expensive, especially if it's going to be a contested divorce, give Siam Legal Services a call. Consider your options, and estimate what you might gain (and would it be worth it?) and what you're prepared to lose (including risking your life) to exit this relationship. 

 

Even with a divorce court order, if she refuses or delays selling the house and land in her name, it could be a very lengthy process with no guarantee that you'll see any of the proceeds, particularly if she sells to a family relative for peanuts. All in all, I don't see you making a financial gain, and that's about the best advice I can give you right now.

 

 

 

 

[Estrada]

Quite a few of my ex-pat friends have died shortly after completing their wife's wanted list. Mobile phone, Car, house/condo for her, house up country for her & mother. My friend Toby Charnaud was murdered and barbequed by his wife. Another friend who worked on a rotation in the O&G industry, died of natural causes ( I was told, but do not believe) a few weeks after he bought his wife a second house in Petchabun. Another Thai woman that has had 3 ex-pat husbands who bought her bars and houses in Pattaya, who she admits to have bumped off, but I cannot prove it. The last time I saw her on Soi 8 Pattaya, she was trying to get his pension. Be very careful. You need a good Thai Lawyer and expect to pay a reasonable fee.

[colinneil]

13 hours ago, swissie said:

.....As a starting point: Assets aquired during marriage are split equally 50/50. This applies to Thai-couples as well as Farang/Thai couples. Not really rocket-science.
If your Thai-Lawyer(s) are not familiar with this, you have definitely ended up with the "wrong"-lawyer(s).
- Be prepaired to lose 50% of your "investments", but no need to walk away with a 100% loss.

"I know I am stupid but I could not believe she would turn out how she has."
You were not "stupid" just "trusting", like many others before you.

It is not unheard of, that ladies marry Farangs with long term financial goals in mind. Once those financial goals are reached, they may decide that this is a good time to "cash-in" and "bail-out" (mission accomplished!)
Depending on the "financial-goals", the "bail-out-point" may be reached after 2 years, 5 years or 15 years of marriage.
OP's wife may have decided, that the time to bail-out has arrived. Again, "mission accomplished".
Good luck & cheers.

Please stop telling folk everything is split 50/50, that happens in some cases but not all.

I was divorced 3 weeks after i left for the UK, FOR DESERTION.

Law here states that cannot happen until after 1 year and 1 day.

knew nothing about the divorce, was never notified by anyone.

Court granted ex house/car, in fact everything, corrupt judge/ corrupt lawyer/ corrupt police, farang has no chance.

[Scouse123]

I have sent you a PM.

[tkramer]

There are many (long-time practicing) 'highly-intelligent top-notch farang lawyers in Bangkok. Contact your Chamber of Commerce.

[curtklay]

colinneil is correct. 50/50 split is not guaranteed. Thai law always favors the Thai whether it be divorce, death, or anything.

[Sydebolle]

Everything in her name = belongs to her and you have no possibility to put your claim of 50% on it. The only difference would be, if you could PROVE, that you paid 50% or 100% of the purchase price; that does NOT apply to land though. 

Ensure all moveable assets and bank accounts are moved/depleted immediately, so you will be discussing only house and land; eventually cars/bikes. 

Against all that you can claim the education costs of her kids (unless you adopted them) as well as any other monetary transfer during your marriage, again only if you can prove your statements black-on-white.

Then you take a crisp young Bangkok-lawyer, present the case and tell him that he gets 10% of whatever you get; can do wonders. He might talk your wife into reasoning as most of these birds are pretty uneducated and rely on information of relatives, the auntie back in Nakorn Nowhere or a sleazy lawyer who is in for the money, irrespective of source. 

Good luck! 

[Kadilo]

most of these birds are pretty uneducated and rely on information of relatives 

Good luck! 

 

Don't say much for all the ferangs that get caught out then if this is the case. They are probably not as "uneducated" as people think in this department.

 

 

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[Proboscis]

1 hour ago, davidst01 said:

Play her bluff. If it goes to court it will cost her a lot of money that she probably doesnt have either. Go to one of her friends and mediate through that person. Give her 50% subject to no contact with lawyers. 

 

A 2nd thing is to do nothing. Stop visiting the lawyers, tell her you dont want a divorce. She will know this means no money. Then later down the line when she starts behaving negotiate through the friend and do the divorce. 

 

That British guy in Phuket who was defrauded of his houses (the one who was on national media) always said he could not find an honest lawyer. He said that was his biggest problem. 

 

Good luck 

There are a few international legal companies in Bangkok - perhaps go to them for advice.

 

[Zikomat]

56 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Don't say much for all the ferangs that get caught out then if this is the case. They are probably not as "uneducated" as people think in this department.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

You don't need much education when the Law is on your side.

[TKDfella]

I persuaded my now ex-wife for a 'quickie' divorce (17 years of marriage) but that was only because I had NOT paid out as the OP has done and it was her bungalow to start with. I paid off the remaining mortgage (a mere 200,000B) and paid for this and that in decor. The Honda Civic was already in my name (which I'd paid for) and apart from my computer, books etc. I didn't want to risk having to sell the car by going to court. I am indeed sorry to hear about the OP's problems and I can only say it is like others say on this thread...damned difficult. I have a copy of Thai Law for Foreigners but I hasten to add I used it only as a guide for what options I might have had and cannot replace a Lawyer. While this book does quote the 50/50 idea I think it is only based on what the husband and wife agree on. If there is no agreement and left to the court the book does say, and I quote; 'This is almost never a good resolution and will significantly increase the costs...'. Whoever wants the (court) divorce must also provide grounds for divorce and the list for those is long (and I'm sure not complete or exhaustive).

The other point that the OP needs to consider is paying, what is the equivalent of, alimony.. Even though I had the 'quickie' at the district office they still insisted that I paid an agreed monthly amount for 2 years. Fortunately, my wife did not want her bungalow and other assets to go to court and a small sum was agreed. The officer then said it wasn't enough but I insisted it had been agreed upon which she signed the papers.

I consider myself lucky because a friend of mine got 'taken to the cleaners' as it were and yet his Thai wife was the guilty party (third party). I wish the OP luck, and a lot of it.

[peterrabbit]

Get a well recommended English speaking lawyer from outside of town ie Bangkok. There always seem to be an insidious relationship between 'local' Thai lawyers. Hire a lawyer from outside your local 'swamp' and negotiate a fixed price for the whole job before you start.

[DoneTravelling]

Thanks guys for all comments so far.

Maybe I should have stated more in my first post but I thought it was enough. I have read the Thailand Marriage and Family Laws act and pretty well understand it all, it is fair and not on sided. I am a contract law specialist so I do know how to read contracts and laws.

All assets including the land are classed as Sin Somros which means marital assets are jointly owned by both husband and wife. So the land is included in the split. Section  1533 of the act states: "Upon divorce the Sin Somros shall be divided equally between man and woman." so ALL common  assets amassed since the marriage are included in this. This statement is 100% incorrect "Everything in her name = belongs to her and you have no possibility to put your claim of 50% on it".

I know the value of all assets as being a nerd I have always kept a record. I can prove I paid for everything. Our assets are over $1.5m

The two lawyers I have used plus Siam Legal in BKK have all said I need to stay away from the court and do everything possible to settle out of court. All stated roughly the same thing, the hearing will be held in Thai language, there is very little if any opportunity to talk to your lawyer during the hearing, they are expected to know everything before the hearing. The judge will make the decision and often this is in favour of the Thai person. 

I agree with one comment above in that she and her lawyer are very aware of the 50/50 split requirement and are doing everything possible to delay finalization. She agreed to sell the house and separate land but she wanted such a ridiculous price they would never have sold.

 

[petermik]

Never buy anything here that you cannot afford to walk away from if needed..............I know that,s too late for DoneTravelling but take the earlier advice about refusing to get a divorce and ignoring her claims

 

p.s. I had a house built 2 years ago here (1.5 million baht) knowing full well it was money down the drain if the relationship turned sour,and we are happily not married still

[thecyclist]

15 hours ago, swissie said:

.....As a starting point: Assets aquired during marriage are split equally 50/50. This applies to Thai-couples as well as Farang/Thai couples. Not really rocket-science.
If your Thai-Lawyer(s) are not familiar with this, you have definitely ended up with the "wrong"-lawyer(s).
- Be prepaired to lose 50% of your "investments", but no need to walk away with a 100% loss.

"I know I am stupid but I could not believe she would turn out how she has."
You were not "stupid" just "trusting", like many others before you.

It is not unheard of, that ladies marry Farangs with long term financial goals in mind. Once those financial goals are reached, they may decide that this is a good time to "cash-in" and "bail-out" (mission accomplished!)
Depending on the "financial-goals", the "bail-out-point" may be reached after 2 years, 5 years or 15 years of marriage.
OP's wife may have decided, that the time to bail-out has arrived. Again, "mission accomplished".
Good luck & cheers.

Not unheard of that Thai women marry Farang for financial gains.That has gotta be the understatment of the year.A ballpark figure would be somewhere between 70 and 90 % of sao Thai/Farang relationships are based solely or to a significant extent on financial consideration. 

[StevieDee]

OP

Feel for you mate.

By the sound of it my situation 4 1/2 years ago was the same as yours

I too, at the time, thought a local lawyer was the best route, how wrong.

Maya Pearson, Premier Thai Lawyers, BKK sorted me out, and the b***h, all above board, 50/50 split with acceptable costs.

My only advice, sort it out sooner rather than later

 

[Kadilo]

Not unheard of that Thai women marry Farang for financial gains.That has gotta be the understatment of the year.A ballpark figure would be somewhere between 70 and 90 % of sao Thai/Farang relationships are based solely or to a significant extent on financial consideration. 

Where does this "ballpark figure" originate from?


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[tandor]

15 hours ago, swissie said:

.....As a starting point: Assets aquired during marriage are split equally 50/50. This applies to Thai-couples as well as Farang/Thai couples. Not really rocket-science.
If your Thai-Lawyer(s) are not familiar with this, you have definitely ended up with the "wrong"-lawyer(s).
- Be prepaired to lose 50% of your "investments", but no need to walk away with a 100% loss.

"I know I am stupid but I could not believe she would turn out how she has."
You were not "stupid" just "trusting", like many others before you.

It is not unheard of, that ladies marry Farangs with long term financial goals in mind. Once those financial goals are reached, they may decide that this is a good time to "cash-in" and "bail-out" (mission accomplished!)
Depending on the "financial-goals", the "bail-out-point" may be reached after 2 years, 5 years or 15 years of marriage.
OP's wife may have decided, that the time to bail-out has arrived. Again, "mission accomplished".
Good luck & cheers.

..sympathies too to the Op...there seems to be a silent code and support group of fellow women who fill their heads with ideas and 'how to do'...i have a decent Thai lawyer but he is in ChiangMai..sorry.

[mduras01]

I know I'm not helping the situation, but I am trying to wrap my head around these kinds of situations. Now I'm assuming she didn't originate from a bar or anything remotely close. But even then, I would never do such as thing for anyone back in the US. So why do it here? Why buy things for the family etc. Whats so different here? Why do folk try to buy their way into a false sense of security? Why? Mind you, I am married to a thai and have a son too. Car is solely in my name, purchased before marriage. Home? Forget it - will not ever buy and put anything in her name and she's perfectly fine with it. She's more than content just to always be by my side. Marriage visa? No way. I chose another visa type. Investments? All abroad. I transfer what I need to Thailand every three months. Just enough. I do help the family with some medical bills for the father's cancer treatment and they treat me right always, regardless of my help. They did before, they do now. They own a respectable small business. So what I am saying is why is there such a vast preponderance of folk in these dire do or die financial situations here in Thailand? Does the time zone play some trick on the mind? And these fallen angels, are they truly angels? Where did you meet her?

 

Again, I know I'm not helping. I guess my questions is...why put oneself in such short-sighted consequences, considering the ample background info available to all?

 

I hope all sorts itself out and that you never do such a thing again. I truly wish you the best and it's a painful lesson, but I hope a one time lesson only.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

[DoneTravelling]

To Mduras: I appreciate and understand your comments. My wife was a physiotherapist at a hospital in BKK when we met, She worked 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and earned a pittance. After we married I bought the house as we had to have somewhere to live, doesn't everyone? If you did not buy a home where do you live?

I bought the land as we had a plan for it, this never worked out in the end. I have one car in my name one in hers, it makes no difference whos name it is in as it is a common marital asset.

And I am not in a dire financial situation.

[koolkarl]

Most women are as mercenary as they go, especially if they have kids from someone else.

She is probably half your age but twice as cunning and has received lots of advice from girlfriends long

before a trusting soul like you showed up. 

These women are cougars; looking for lonely old men with too much money.

I have known many foreign men who throw money at women thinking they are impressing them.

No wonder Thais think foreign men are rich; you are cutting your own throat and all other foreign men by doing what you did.

Now your life is in danger.

Get on a plane and never come back. And now  you have learned an expensive lesson.

[merlen10002]

If this is for real I can give you some help, the first thing you must do is get a Lawyer out of Hua Hin , the Lawyer in Hua Hin is working for your wife not you, I can give a very good Lawyer that works for Farangs , he did work for me and is really good, he may even drive to Hua Hin to you, I think one letter from him to your wife may sort her out, if you are interested pm me, 

 

 

[bberrythailand]

What is the problem here, why do you accept divorce ? Just let it go, you do not need to divorce ! Until you go to court she has nothing ! I wonder why people need to clear situations when it's not needed...

 

[bberrythailand]

4 hours ago, davidst01 said:

 

 

A 2nd thing is to do nothing. Stop visiting the lawyers, tell her you dont want a divorce. She will know this means no money. Then later down the line when she starts behaving negotiate through the friend and do the divorce. 

 

 

This is the best solution ! So weird that so many people cannot think about it !

 

 

[Blue bruce]

I used a legal service in Bangkok name is G.A.M. legal services. Very happy with the service, speaks english and reasonable cost.

1. gam-legalalliance.com