U.S. holds powerful but risky tool to halt North Korea's nuclear progress

[impulse]

9 minutes ago, Scott said:

Although the NK's can make high quality notes, the cost of doing so is very, very high.   Syria, years ago (and maybe more recently) also was trying the same thing.   It cost them over $100 to produce one $100 bill.  

 

What the situation is with NK, I am not sure, but economically it's not a worthwhile process.   

 

If it's costing the US $0.125 to print $100 bills, I can't see where it would cost more than 1% of face value in N. Korea.

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-100-bill-costs-60-more-to-produce-2013-10-08

 

[Scott]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If it's costing the US $0.125 to print $100 bills, I can't see where it would cost more than 1% of face value in N. Korea.

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-100-bill-costs-60-more-to-produce-2013-10-08

 

It's not the printing or engraving that is the big problem and expense, it is trying to duplicate the paper, which is a combination of cotton and linen, but part of the formula for the paper is only available in the US.   The paper is expensive and the process of making it is expensive.    The US mints use a lot of it, so the cost is greatly lowered.   For those dabbling in it, the cost is very high.  

 

[Srikcir]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

If it's costing the US $0.125 to print $100 bills, I can't see where it would cost more than 1% of face value in N. Korea.

Found this regarding profit margins on counterfeit $100 notes.

The Secret Service estimated that the counterfeiter sold his initial run to his U.S. distributors for 10% of their face value. The distributors then dealt their haul to middlemen for 25¢ to 35¢ on the dollar. By the time they reached the person passing the bills at Walmart or Target, a bogus $100 note was being sold for as much as $65.     https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-counterfeit-money/

[mike324]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

China's economy isn't good right now. The US is doing ok. China would suffer massively. Other countries would step in and fill the gap left by China. Won't hurt the US that much. China would be devestated.

 

IMHO!

China is a manufacturing nation, no doubt that other countries can fill China's shoes, but it would be at a cost for US citizens. In sectors like electronics, no countries can replace China. Like I said, it goes both ways and both are as much reliant on each other. China needs US's consumption to keep their export market afloat, the US citizens needs China's cheap goods to have a decent standard of living.

 

If they cut ties as you know which would never ever happen, China will be the most effected short term as their manufacturing sector collapses, but in the long run its the US that will have the most impact. Manufacturing in China is already on a downward spiral due to higher standards of living in China and many workers don't want factory jobs.

 

There is a lot more to this issue.

[boomerangutang]

I've watched the following video twice.  It blows my mind.   If you know how the US forges large steel items (all mechanical with one or two workers) you'll get a kick out of how this Chinese crew does the job.  I'm an analogue guy, borderline Luddite (I've had 5 smart phones and can't figure how to use them) - so I fully appreciate getting jobs done slowly with many workers.  Heck, workers may even converse with one another, and develop relationships.   

 

 

[craigt3365]

6 hours ago, mike324 said:

China is a manufacturing nation, no doubt that other countries can fill China's shoes, but it would be at a cost for US citizens. In sectors like electronics, no countries can replace China. Like I said, it goes both ways and both are as much reliant on each other. China needs US's consumption to keep their export market afloat, the US citizens needs China's cheap goods to have a decent standard of living.

 

If they cut ties as you know which would never ever happen, China will be the most effected short term as their manufacturing sector collapses, but in the long run its the US that will have the most impact. Manufacturing in China is already on a downward spiral due to higher standards of living in China and many workers don't want factory jobs.

 

There is a lot more to this issue.

[midas]

9 minutes ago, car720 said:

Perhaps someone with more knowledge can educate me on this subject.

It seems to me that we keep talking about the North wiping out millions in the South but I thought that even as little as one EMP bomb would take out their ability to fire anything in the short term.  Long enough to neutralize them anyway.

Maybe its because the threat works both ways

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/06/02/newt-gingrich-north-korean-emp-threat.html

[gk10002000]

Usually, bans and blockades just mean that the little bit that gets through goes to the dictator and his government and the people suffer.  Sure they can be crippling or hurt the economy and other things, but the people suffer first and the longest.  Look at Iraq when Saddam was in power with all the sanctions.  He bought wheat from Australian, rice from Vietnam.  It was actually kind of interesting

[amvet]

12 hours ago, impulse said:

And North Korea has a powerful but risky tool when they can print $$ trillions of fake USD (and GBP and Eur) and flood the world with almost undetectable fakes.  Think of the consequences of a loss of confidence in paper notes- even for just a few months.

 

And for those advocating "taking the little man's regime out",  Bannon got one thing right.  Tens of millions around Seoul could die in the first 30 minutes of the old school artillery barrage they could launch with the border being just 30-40 miles north.

 

 

 

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/could-north-korea-annihilate-seoul-its-artillery-20345?page=2

 

A 2011 study by the Nautilus Institute throws a considerable amount of cold water on this scenario. While the sheer number of artillery tubes could theoretically kill a large number of civilians, operational issues complicate matters and push the number of civilian casualties greatly downward.

The city has extensive air raid shelters for civilians that will quickly reduce the exposed population density.

Even if a million civilians were killed in Seoul it would ensure Kim’s untimely demise, and from his perspective that is still almost certainly a very bad trade.

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Usually, bans and blockades just mean that the little bit that gets through goes to the dictator and his government and the people suffer.  Sure they can be crippling or hurt the economy and other things, but the people suffer first and the longest.  Look at Iraq when Saddam was in power with all the sanctions.  He bought wheat from Australian, rice from Vietnam.  It was actually kind of interesting

The people have been suffering for decades under the rule of the Kims. Time for a change.  They deserve better.

[losworld]

Clinton allowed this yoyo to get on the nuclear path... once there it is very difficult to deal with.....

[ilostmypassword]

41 minutes ago, losworld said:

Clinton allowed this yoyo to get on the nuclear path... once there it is very difficult to deal with.....

Actually, there was a deal in place to keep them off the nuclear path. Then Bush and Cheney decided to maintain no more deals with one of the members of the axis of evil.

[Saradoc1972]

18 hours ago, impulse said:

And North Korea has a powerful but risky tool when they can print $$ trillions of fake USD (and GBP and Eur) and flood the world with almost undetectable fakes.  Think of the consequences of a loss of confidence in paper notes- even for just a few months.

 

Sounds like what the European Central Bank has been doing for years, at least with Euro.

How can North Korea even begin to beat their resources and determination?

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, losworld said:

Clinton allowed this yoyo to get on the nuclear path... once there it is very difficult to deal with.....

The world allowed this yoyo on the nuclear path. Research the very long history of UN sanctions. Started way before Clinton.

[hawker9000]

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 6:06 PM, impulse said:

And North Korea has a powerful but risky tool when they can print $$ trillions of fake USD (and GBP and Eur) and flood the world with almost undetectable fakes.  Think of the consequences of a loss of confidence in paper notes- even for just a few months.

 

And for those advocating "taking the little man's regime out",  Bannon got one thing right.  Tens of millions around Seoul could die in the first 30 minutes of the old school artillery barrage they could launch with the border being just 30-40 miles north.

 

 

 

ROFL.  And you think the NORKs aren't already passing counterfeit currency (US and apparently Chinese as well!), and haven't been doing it for years?  They're as famous for that as they are for their cyberwar exploits.  You really need to get out more.

 

All the wingnuts who were SOOOO worried about Trump's finger on the button, and he hesitates to even invoke these "secondary sanctions" ...   It's way past time to stop hoping Kim will blow himself up, and get serious with these sanctions (if not more).

[impulse]

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

ROFL.  And you think the NORKs aren't already passing counterfeit currency (US and apparently Chinese as well!), and haven't been doing it for years?  They're as famous for that as they are for their cyberwar exploits.  You really need to get out more.

 

All the wingnuts who were SOOOO worried about Trump's finger on the button, and he hesitates to even invoke these "secondary sanctions" ...   It's way past time to stop hoping Kim will blow himself up, and get serious with these sanctions (if not more).

 

Sure they've been printing supernotes for years.  But there's a huge difference between printing up a few million $$$ when you need some Cognac and a new limo and dumping tens of billions of $$$ on the market to deliberately crash the confidence in paper currency.

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by impulse

[hawker9000]

44 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Sure they've been printing supernotes for years.  But there's a huge difference between printing up a few million $$$ when you need some Cognac and a new limo and dumping tens of billions of $$$ on the market to deliberately crash the confidence in paper currency.

 

Nonsense.  He's been trying to undermine the currency all along, not merely buy Cognac & limos.  Where in the world did you get that idea?

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by hawker9000

[craigt3365]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Sure they've been printing supernotes for years.  But there's a huge difference between printing up a few million $$$ when you need some Cognac and a new limo and dumping tens of billions of $$$ on the market to deliberately crash the confidence in paper currency.

 

More than just a few million. Hardly just for cognac. They did just get caught sending chemical weapons to Syria. I'm kinda shocked you are so nonchalant about this.

 

http://www.heritage.org/asia/report/china-complicit-north-korean-currency-counterfeiting

When it comes to North Korea, the United States has concerns about more than just nuclear weapons. For over 25 years, Pyongyang's state-supervised currency printing plants have been churning out high-grade counterfeit U.S. dollars as well as counterfeit Japanese yen, Thai baht, and in recent years, euros. A more recent concern is the increasing evidence that China has not been an innocent bystander in North Korea's traffic in bogus bills.

 

The Economist Intelligence Unit estimated in 2003 that North Korea earned as much as $100 million a year from counterfeit currency.