webfact Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 UK police broke law in case of British backpackers murdered in Thailand Vikram Dodd Police and crime correspondent Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were murdered on the island of Koh Tao in September 2014. Photograph: PA /The Guardian National Crime Agency breached rules by passing information to Thai police that led to death sentences, high court rules LONDON: -- The National Crime Agency in the UK has been forced to admit it acted unlawfully when it gave information to Thai police that helped send two men to death row for murdering two British backpackers. The NCA supplied phone record evidence and intelligence to investigators in Thailand following the September 2014 murders of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on the island of Koh Tao. Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both Burmese nationals, were convicted of the murders in 2015 after a trial which the anti-death penalty group Reprieve said was unfair. They face execution by lethal injection, and claim to have been tortured. On Tuesday, the high court in London found against the NCA – Britain’s version of the FBI – in a case brought by lawyers for Lin and Phyo. Full story: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/29/uk-police-broke-law-in-case-of-british-backpackers-murdered-in-thailand -- The Guardian 2017-08-30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z42 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 In a word, diabolical. I maintain that there is not a single piece of evidence in this case that proves beyond any doubt that these Burmese lads currently on death row raped and killed anyone. The evidence presented simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and the fact that the only evidence that was scrutinized (the murder weapon) didn't have any trace of the supposed killers on it, NONE. This is a fit up, pure and simple, and a horribly constructed one at that. The fact that the phone evidence has been used in such a way (a way that does not prove either rape or murder) then it should be another major piece needed to exonerate the B2. Shame on the UK authorities for their conduct also, an utter disgrace however you spin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evermaat Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) And what exactly does this have to do with Thai police not conducting a proper investigation or sentencing 2 [likely innocent] Burmese nationals to their death? The crime took place in Thailand. Sounds like two completely separate issues. Edited August 29, 2017 by 4evermaat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LomSak27 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Just now, 4evermaat said: What does this have to do with Thai police not conducting a proper investigation or sentencing 2 [likely innocent] Burmese nationals to their death? Sounds like two completely separate issues. Nothing but that is what so cool about it - NOW it is the NCA who are responsible ..... hehe. The BiB are laughing today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samui Bodoh Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 "Reprieve said the evidence and intelligence was used selectively against Lin and Phyo, and that the NCA material potentially pointed to other suspects that could have bolstered the defence case. However, this information was not given to the defence team." From the Guardian story Way to go, UK police. You have likely helped to convict two innocent men. What a proud day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehowden Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 " The NCA supplied phone record evidence and intelligence to investigators in Thailand " " the NCA passed Miller’s phone location data to Thai police, enabling prosecutors to say the suspects were in the same area as their alleged victim. " When asked why the UK equivalent of the FBI had acted illegally in this case the then titular head of the NCA replied "Brexit mean Brexit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
over it Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 No matter what happened, someone was going to get fitted, and it wasn't going to be the real culprits. Remember? "No Thai could do this". Too many tourist dollars on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman20 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 25 minutes ago, over it said: No matter what happened, someone was going to get fitted, and it wasn't going to be the real culprits. Remember? "No Thai could do this". Too many tourist dollars on the line. how can this sort of thing go on in 2017 with DNA and the hole world looking at this case its like being back in the cave men days. unbelievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I do wonder what the other evidence it is that was handed to the prosecution. Could it be the confirmed dna match of those 2 guilty sods. The fact that the nca took the risk of handing over such evidence, just tells me by their investigations, they believe the b2 guilty also. There may well have been others there, right along with the b2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksidedog Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 "Following the murders, the NCA passed Miller’s phone location data to Thai police, enabling prosecutors to say the suspects were in the same area as their alleged victim." This seems dubious evidence at best, as many other people would have been in the general area as well. Including a certain Head mans son. Shameful that a piece of evidence illegally obtained was a critical factor, and also shows the desperation of the Thais to convict them, especially since they had no real evidence of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotpoom Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, 4evermaat said: And what exactly does this have to do with Thai police not conducting a proper investigation or sentencing 2 [likely innocent] Burmese nationals to their death? The crime took place in Thailand. Sounds like two completely separate issues. The information was able to place them in the region where the crime took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfalfa19 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 And of course, the Thai police force conducted themselves impeccably, as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, z42 said: In a word, diabolical. I maintain that there is not a single piece of evidence in this case that proves beyond any doubt that these Burmese lads currently on death row raped and killed anyone. The evidence presented simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and the fact that the only evidence that was scrutinized (the murder weapon) didn't have any trace of the supposed killers on it, NONE. This is a fit up, pure and simple, and a horribly constructed one at that. The fact that the phone evidence has been used in such a way (a way that does not prove either rape or murder) then it should be another major piece needed to exonerate the B2. Shame on the UK authorities for their conduct also, an utter disgrace however you spin it. Interesting logic. You say there's no evidence but the UK police presented evidence. Then you say the UK police presented evidence but phones can't be evidence. Therefore the Burmese should be set free. If if I commit murder I want you as my judge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon467367354 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 it almost looks like to me that the Thai police are doing the right thing but saving face by finding a way to blame someone else. These boys need to go free and I think everybody knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, z42 said: In a word, diabolical. I maintain that there is not a single piece of evidence in this case that proves beyond any doubt that these Burmese lads currently on death row raped and killed anyone. The evidence presented simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and the fact that the only evidence that was scrutinized (the murder weapon) didn't have any trace of the supposed killers on it, NONE. This is a fit up, pure and simple, and a horribly constructed one at that. The fact that the phone evidence has been used in such a way (a way that does not prove either rape or murder) then it should be another major piece needed to exonerate the B2. Shame on the UK authorities for their conduct also, an utter disgrace however you spin it. We will never know the truth now, are they guilty or not ? One thing however is clear, they were not proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt as should be required by law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmitch Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 This would be nothing but circumstantial evidence. Also didn't the Burmese guys admit to being in the same general vicinity, or is my memory playing tricks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maoro2013 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, z42 said: In a word, diabolical. I maintain that there is not a single piece of evidence in this case that proves beyond any doubt that these Burmese lads currently on death row raped and killed anyone. The evidence presented simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and the fact that the only evidence that was scrutinized (the murder weapon) didn't have any trace of the supposed killers on it, NONE. This is a fit up, pure and simple, and a horribly constructed one at that. The fact that the phone evidence has been used in such a way (a way that does not prove either rape or murder) then it should be another major piece needed to exonerate the B2. Shame on the UK authorities for their conduct also, an utter disgrace however you spin it. No evidence that we have been provided anyway. I totally agree with you, fit up 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinchester Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 49 minutes ago, greenchair said: I do wonder what the other evidence it is that was handed to the prosecution. Could it be the confirmed dna match of those 2 guilty sods. The fact that the nca took the risk of handing over such evidence, just tells me by their investigations, they believe the b2 guilty also. There may well have been others there, right along with the b2. If the Thai prosecution were happy to accept phone evidence that placed the Burmese near to the scene, something they had admitted to anyway when they said they were drinking on the beach, then surely the same prosecution would have presented confirmation of dna results if handed over by the UK Police. It could also be speculated, for that is what you are doing about unproduced evidence, that the reason evidence was not presented is that it did not back up the Thai case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 They will kill these boys and later someone will confess to these murders and because they confess they will not be given the death penalty. Ironical and sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csabo Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, 4evermaat said: And what exactly does this have to do with Thai police not conducting a proper investigation or sentencing 2 [likely innocent] Burmese nationals to their death? The crime took place in Thailand. Sounds like two completely separate issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextStationBangkok Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Sounds like this case will reach up to International Court of Justice. Hope these guys will be at least pardoned by General Pryooth, before it is gone out of hands of Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csabo Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 31 minutes ago, madmitch said: This would be nothing but circumstantial evidence. Also didn't the Burmese guys admit to being in the same general vicinity, or is my memory playing tricks? It's not your memory playing tricks, it's your lack of knowledge of how a criminal investigation and prosecution works. Suspect claims including confessions must be supported by evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soistalker Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I don't know how you guys are going to take this, but I try to limit my interaction with Thai men as much as possible. I am married, so I don't hang around the bars and I don't bring hookers back to my condo. I am usually inside by dark, but if not, I am around other people and not isolated. These things, I believe, keep me safe. But as a younger man, I remember being with my farang girlfriend on vacation on Koh Chang. This would have been back in 2002, when there were really not a lot of tourists. We walked down the beach at night holding hands and kissing. I didn't see it as dangerous, and it turned out that it wasn't, but I wouldn't do it these days as I would think twice due to it not being safe, but also that Thai men are allowed to assault and hurt farangs with little chance of being prosecuted. Remember the watch seller who got a 500 baht fine for stabbing a farang?! What kind of signal does it send to Thais that they can hurt us and, if not caught in the act (unlikely), that the police are too incompetent or indifferent to do anything about it. That time on Koh Chang, we were sitting around a fire with mostly farang. One young Thai guy in his 20s was acting like Mr. Big man, smoking marijuana with the female tourists. I couldn't figure out whether he was tried to get laid or trying selling weed, but it wasn't any of my business. He looked at me and asked me where I was from. I said America. He gave me an evil look and said that he didn't like America. I let it go, because I didn't give a <deleted> what he thought and I was isolated on the beach with my girlfriend. Be careful. Smile to everyone. Don't argue with a Thai. Don't get overly drunk in pubic. Don't get pushed off your deck by someone you brought home. And stay as far away from ladyboys as you can. They are mostly unstable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soistalker Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere said: They will kill these boys and later someone will confess to these murders and because they confess they will not be given the death penalty. Ironical and sad. Absurd. Why would someone confess so long after the act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotman Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, soistalker said: I don't know how you guys are going to take this, but I try to limit my interaction with Thai men as much as possible. I am married, so I don't hang around the bars and I don't bring hookers back to my condo. I am usually inside by dark, but if not, I am around other people and not isolated. These things, I believe, keep me safe. But as a younger man, I remember being with my farang girlfriend on vacation on Koh Chang. This would have been back in 2002, when there were really not a lot of tourists. We walked down the beach at night holding hands and kissing. I didn't see it as dangerous, and it turned out that it wasn't, but I wouldn't do it these days as I would think twice due to it not being safe, but also that Thai men are allowed to assault and hurt farangs with little chance of being prosecuted. Remember the watch seller who got a 500 baht fine for stabbing a farang?! What kind of signal does it send to Thais that they can hurt us and, if not caught in the act (unlikely), that the police are too incompetent or indifferent to do anything about it. That time on Koh Chang, we were sitting around a fire with mostly farang. One young Thai guy in his 20s was acting like Mr. Big man, smoking marijuana with the female tourists. I couldn't figure out whether he was tried to get laid or trying selling weed, but it wasn't any of my business. He looked at me and asked me where I was from. I said America. He gave me an evil look and said that he didn't like America. I let it go, because I didn't give a <deleted> what he thought and I was isolated on the beach with my girlfriend. Be careful. Smile to everyone. Don't argue with a Thai. Don't get overly drunk in pubic. Don't get pushed off your deck by someone you brought home. And stay as far away from ladyboys as you can. They are mostly unstable. I wouldn't walk around in a secluded area, with my wife, at night, in many world wide locations, including a lot of Europe and the US. Hell, I didn't go down to my local town centre at night in the UK , at least not at a weekend. There were two rapes and one stabbing there in 2016 and that was not a national story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowgard Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 49 minutes ago, gr8fldanielle said: it almost looks like to me that the Thai police are doing the right thing but saving face by finding a way to blame someone else. These boys need to go free and I think everybody knows it. I don't know it!!! It is 100% right that the BiB's made a lot of things wrong. But this doesn't mean that this 2 guys are innocent. The biggest point is that "No one TRUST the BiB's after all wrongdoings in this case and others!!!" We all never got all evidences and informations to judge about this case. So no one of us can say 100% right that they are scapegoats or the real murders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxe1200 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Remember this one?? Click on CC for English subtitles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peaD7E6cUso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowgard Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 22 minutes ago, Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere said: They will kill these boys and later someone will confess to these murders and because they confess they will not be given the death penalty. Ironical and sad. Maybe not!!! In the US the risks are much more higher for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvavin Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Confusion, confusion and more confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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