JB300 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Has anybody has registered for this & have you managed to do so without declaring yourself a resident in the UK/Chanel Islands. I tried to do so with my broker (Barclays Stockbrokers) but came up against the above point so was wondering if any other "ShareShops" we're accepting registrants who weren't UK resident. Nb I am British & technically not resident anywhere else at the moment (been traveling since leaving Singapore at the end of Feb), but I don't want to declare myself as resident there when I don't feel like I am (only ever spend 3-4 weeks a year there visiting family). Cheers JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Not a chance, not any more! If you declare yourself non-resident you become persona non gratis for this sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topt Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I had received a mail from Hargreaves Lansdown asking if I wanted to register my interest so I thought I would try it out. Clicking on the link would not connect to any page and even going to their site and eventually finding a link to register it would not open. However using a vpn I could get through and it only asked me to confirm "If I was located in the UK".The gov.uk site also asks where you are located and does not mention "residency" - at this stage anyhow.I suppose it may depend on one's moral compass........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong38 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I registered on the Govt site, so will see how it develops, if papers are then sent to my UK address and I am not there at the time it might be a problem, but, if it can all be done online thats a different thing altogether and as I am already a shareholder through Equiniti something might turn up through them as well, wiat and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I registered with Hargreaves Landsdown. I've never given up my address in the UK so using UK based services is not a problem even though I live and work overseas. For the record. I invested and hold about a third of my share holdings in Lloyds back when the shares were dirt cheap (the average price I have paid is a little over 32p a share. To my mind the big returns have already been made. However the dividend forecasts for Lloyds look good, as does the likely 30% hike in the share value over the coming two years. I have bid for £995 worth of 'citizen' offering on the basis that the government have stated priority shall be given to bids under £1000. Its not going to be a big giveaway, but I'm convinced it will be a few hundred pounds in the right direction. The two surprising big returns in my holding are Allergy Therapeutics, which by means of taking profits when available has returned over 110% since July 2014 and Melrose PLC, which since 2013 has provided 80% in cash returns to investors and is next spring for case to return a bonus in excess of 100% (based on the recent sale of Elster to Honeywell. Otherwise Mondi PLC and Ashtead Group PLC are doing rather nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB300 Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Maybe I should ask the question differently... Does anybody see any issues (legally, financially or morally) in me declaring myself as a uk residential if the facts are... 1) Born & bred in the Uk 2) I'm not resident anywhere else... Was resident in Singapore for 6 1/2 years up till end of Feb but since then I've been a bit of a nomad. 3) Barclays Stockbrokers already have my address as being in the UK (though they do know I'm a non-UK resident for Tax purposes) 4) According to the new UK Tax resident assessment test, I can not be considered as a UK Tax resident until I spend at least 46 days in-country in one tax year (so am guessing I could claim to be resident, on the basis I'm not legally resident anywhere else, at the same time as having to accept I'm a non-resident for tax as I fail their 46 day rule). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I'll rephrase the answer. The government have stated that preference shall be given to bids for shares of less than £1000. On the assumption that the offering shall be oversubscribed, its probably not worth putting in a bid for more than £1000. So lets say you make a 30% gain on the price of the shares between day of purchase and two years later when you collect the maxim £200 bonus for holding the shares of two years. Then your total gain is £500 + a few percent in dividends minus the purchase costs. Ask yourself if you need to jump through hoops for £500 and ask yourself, it you have money to invest in Lloyds shares, why not buy now and get the shares while they are still relatively cheap? The government offer is a very thin coating of icing sugar on the top of what has been a good buy and almost certainly remains a good buy - a max £1000 stake is not going to be providing you with much more than a few good nights out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB300 Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Sorry... Maybe my last post came across the wrong way, I was asking the question as I'm curious as to what people would do in this position (if it helps. It was spawned from a conversation over on the UK pensions thread about how UK Expats are constantly "Shafted" by the Government. But you are right. I own somewhere north of 200,000 Lloyds shares & know that this share offer is going to make me considerably more money (Capital & Income) than I would get from the paltry" Share Offer", but again, it's more of a point of principle/academic question than making a few quid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topt Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Sorry... Maybe my last post came across the wrong way, I was asking the question as I'm curious as to what people would do in this position (if it helps. It was spawned from a conversation over on the UK pensions thread about how UK Expats are constantly "Shafted" by the Government. But you are right. I own somewhere north of 200,000 Lloyds shares & know that this share offer is going to make me considerably more money (Capital & Income) than I would get from the paltry" Share Offer", but again, it's more of a point of principle/academic question than making a few quid... I answered in post #3, Nong38 answered immediately after as did ghworker. However we all seem to still have addresses in the UK. Unlikely HL will link the dots (from past experience) but I do not know about Barclays Stockbrokers........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB300 Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Thanks, I don't think there would be a problem with Barclays stockbrokers either, lol, they still write to me every year to top up my ISA ("despite holding a Singapore address for me for 6 years, now been reverted to a UK address) so I'm guessing the onus is on me to decide whether I'm "Qualified" or not. As per my previous post, the Lloyds Share offer is but the latest example of something that's making me ask myself whether I should become "UK Resident" again (different than being a UK resident for Tax Purposes). On principle, I'm opposed to doing it but it struck me last night that I declare such every time I fill an immigration form in that asks for "Country of Residence" (I can't really put "Nowhere" can I ) so I guess I'm already unilaterally declaring myself as a UK resident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 What you write down for Thai Immigration purposes is irrelevant, the question is, where have you agreed your residence with HMRC UK? And if you say UK, have you managed out your IHT issues, with over 800 K Pounds in Lloyds shares I would think that;'s a priority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB300 Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 What you write down for Thai Immigration purposes is irrelevant, the question is, where have you agreed your residence with HMRC UK? And if you say UK, have you managed out your IHT issues, with over 800 K Pounds in Lloyds shares I would think that;'s a priority! I "Fail" the UK automated Tax residency test as I've been non-UK resident for (at least) the previous 3 years & don't spend more than 30 (the requirement is actually 46) days in the UK in any one Tax year... Man I wish Lloyds shares were worth around £4 per share so I'd get £800,000 for mine (think I've got a long, long, long time to wait before that happens) but fair point about IHT, none of us are getting any younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB300 Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 ... Deleted as for some reason Tapatalk posted the above twice [emoji15]... As an aside, anybody have any recommendations for a Forum reader/follower on the IPhone? Tapatalk is going downhill rapidly [emoji17] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 A couple of points. The reason why Barclays write to you regarding our ISA allowance is because you only need be in the UK at the time of using your allowance. I shall be in the UK for one night next week and shall be transferring funds to my ISA - I shall do this online and the agents (HL) shall record my transaction as coming from within the UK (by means of my IP address). As for the returns on £1000 (the maximum likely allocation under the government's sale of Lloyds), they'll amount to less than 1 3rd of 1% of your current holding. If you've been going back to the UK every year for the past 3 years and not been using your ISA allowance while there, then you've missed out on the opportunity to shelter in excess of £45,000 worth of shares from tax in your ISA allowance. (Almost a 3rd of your entire Lloyds share holding). I think you are in need of wider financial advice than your question initially suggests, and on that matter I strongly suggest that you seek advice from a UK based IFA and absolutely do not use the services of the carpet baggers that claim to be IFAs in Thailand. I expect, given your declarations in this thread the latter will shortly be getting in touch with you via 'private message', if they have not already done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB300 Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 The "no longer eligible to top up my ISA" was one of the things I was advised as part of my Expat briefing by PWC & a quick check on the Gov site says that you must be: - 16 or over for a cash ISA - 18 or over for a stocks and shares ISA - resident in the UK - a Crown servant (eg diplomatic or overseas civil service) or their spouse or civil partner if you don’t live in the UK Again the "Resident in the UK" requirement, but I'm not too bothered as the flip side meant no Capital Gains Tax & as a previous poster has mentioned it wasn't too hard to make good returns as they traded in a pretty solid 20% band for around 18 months (my average price is a little higher than the previous poster at around 38p). Also, my situation was a little more complicated as I was actually working for Barclays in Singapore. No IP range restrictions in using the Barclays Stockbrokers online site (have topped up my ISA when I worked for them in India but remained a UK resident) & I'm guessing that you could access the HL top-up facility by using a VPN. Edit: the only extra Tax advantage in an ISA is on Dividends that take you over your Personal Taxation Allowance (no CGT in ISA's or for non-UK Tax residents), so it will be interesting to see what happens with the new "Dividend Allowance" (IIRC £5,000) that comes into effect in April & whether ISAs retain this (& whether non-residents retain the "only taxed at basic rate" for their dividends). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUUM Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The reason why Barclays write to you regarding our ISA allowance is because you only need be in the UK at the time of using your allowance. I shall be in the UK for one night next week and shall be transferring funds to my ISA - I shall do this online and the agents (HL) shall record my transaction as coming from within the UK (by means of my IP address). Please do post a link supporting the 1 day residence rule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I have bid for £995 worth of 'citizen' offering on the basis that the government have stated priority shall be given to bids under £1000. How have you made that bid? As far as I can see the offer isnt even open yet. You can only "register an interest", whatever that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I have bid for £995 worth of 'citizen' offering on the basis that the government have stated priority shall be given to bids under £1000. How have you made that bid? As far as I can see the offer isnt even open yet. You can only "register an interest", whatever that means. I haven't made the bid, I've registered interest in the bid with HL. When registering interest HL ask how many shares would you like to bid for? HL also restate the government's commitment to prioratise bids bellow £1000. When the bid opens HL will issue the bid on behalf of their investors (like they've done in the past) Saves hassel at no extra cost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The reason why Barclays write to you regarding our ISA allowance is because you only need be in the UK at the time of using your allowance. I shall be in the UK for one night next week and shall be transferring funds to my ISA - I shall do this online and the agents (HL) shall record my transaction as coming from within the UK (by means of my IP address). Please do post a link supporting the 1 day residence rule... Where did I say there is a one day residency rule?My brokers HL monitor IP addresses when accessing there services. I only need to be in the UK to use my ISA allowance. I work overseas and have worked overseas for many years - I comply with the tax laws in the UK and the ISA laws and I do not use VPN services to mask my location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB300 Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 The reason why Barclays write to you regarding our ISA allowance is because you only need be in the UK at the time of using your allowance. I shall be in the UK for one night next week and shall be transferring funds to my ISA - I shall do this online and the agents (HL) shall record my transaction as coming from within the UK (by means of my IP address). Please do post a link supporting the 1 day residence rule... Where did I say there is a one day residency rule?My brokers HL monitor IP addresses when accessing there services. I only need to be in the UK to use my ISA allowance. I work overseas and have worked overseas for many years - I comply with the tax laws in the UK and the ISA laws and I do not use VPN services to mask my location. ... Sorry, Tapatalk seems to have screwed up quotes again...Ahh, so you are a UK Resident for Tax then, had me scrambling for the ISA regs there as I that I just took PWC's word for it at the time & it was 7 years ago so would have lost a considerable amount of ISA allowance.Nothing wrong with using a VPN to access you're HL services, it's a shortfall in their service that stops you from being able to access your account from Overseas not any form of legal requirement that you can't, in fact if your BFPO (British Forces Posted Overseas) or a Civil Servant posted overseas you'd have the right to full ISA privileges as you cannot be a non-UK resident for Tax purposes. What happens if you want to check your portfolio or trade while your overseas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topt Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Where did I say there is a one day residency rule?My brokers HL monitor IP addresses when accessing there services. I only need to be in the UK to use my ISA allowance. I work overseas and have worked overseas for many years - I comply with the tax laws in the UK and the ISA laws and I do not use VPN services to mask my location. Ahh, so you are a UK Resident for Tax then, had me scrambling for the ISA regs there as I that I just took PWC's word for it at the time & it was 7 years ago so would have lost a considerable amount of ISA allowance.Nothing wrong with using a VPN to access you're HL services, it's a shortfall in their service that stops you from being able to access your account from Overseas not any form of legal requirement that you can't, in fact if your BFPO (British Forces Posted Overseas) or a Civil Servant posted overseas you'd have the right to full ISA privileges as you cannot be a non-UK resident for Tax purposes. What happens if you want to check your portfolio or trade while your overseas? You can access al of the other HL stuff normally without using a vpn - it was only to get more info on this offer that I was forced into using one to open that specific page - and I do not remember anything about being asked how many I may want unless it was an optional box which I would have ignored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The reason for this geo-locking is not to do with the UK unilaterally blocking the offer to all non-residents; it's to do with not making share offers in countries where to do so would be potentially illegal (notably the US). If the likes of HL propose shares to residents of some countries they may be breaking the law in those countries. So for simplicity they just avoid offering anything at all outside the UK (this would not apply to registered and documented users accessing their dealing services). This is why it is common to have to declare that one is not in the US before accessing many financial web-pages, including the UK government's Lloyds offer portal. It's also normally printed on prospectuses for rights issues, scrip dividends etc. Financial ass-protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletchsmile Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Let's be clear on eligibility for ISA criteria: Some people may visit the UK for a day or more to apply for their ISA or use a VPN to mask their location or falsely declare themselves as UK tax resident and hence in practice they can actually open or add to an ISA. However, in most cases if you're not tax resident then you are not legally entitled to do so, although there are some exceptions. If someone uses Hargreaves Lansdown online for example they will click on a declaration, which includes: "I am resident in the United Kingdom for tax purposes or, if not so resident, either perform duties which, by virtue of Section 28 of Income Tax (Earnings & Pensions) Act 2003 (Crown employees serving overseas), are treated as being performed in the United Kingdom, or I am married to, or in a civil partnership with, a person who performs such duties. I will inform Hargreaves Lansdown If I cease to be so resident or to perform such duties or be married to, or in a civil partnership with, a person who performs such duties." So yes, while they may be able to make a false declaration, not read it, not understand it or whatever, what they are doing if they don't meet these criteria doesn't comply with UK tax laws. This comes back to JB300's original point/question that if you have a UK address to use you can probably find a way to practically apply for Lloyds shares, using brokers like HL and falsely declaring your status. Doesn't make it legit though, and that's down to your own moral conscience and willingness to commit fraud and accept the risks by false declarations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletchsmile Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I haven't really looked much at the Lloyds offer to be honest. Long term it's not an investment that appeals to me. UK banking sector is in bad shape and increasing regulatory requirements will keep making that worse as capital and other requirements increase, so structurally worsening things like ROE not to mention the increase in regulatory risk of being fined large sums for past and future misdemeanours. Banks like HSBC and Stan Chart are seriously considering moving HQ from UK for valid reasons. There may be some short to mid term upside because they price it to get it off the ground and be politically acceptable - so joe public probably doesn't lose out because of the government. Also the company and shares took a hell of a beating during GFC, so there may be an argument for being undervalued if you also stomach the risks. As a long term investment though and ignoring these 2 factors it doesn't appeal. The hoops to go thru for the amounts involved add another factor for me that it's not worth bothering with. Some retail investors may well make a few hundred quid each on small amounts where they are given priority. For me that's simply not worth lying on declarations for plus the hassles of doing so. No doubt do-able though for those that are determined to do so, and there will be ways to circumvent the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB300 Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Agree with the analysis fletch but do think there is some good "upside" potential for Lloyds from:- 1) Government selling its final stake 2) Resumption of reasonable dividends 3) Return of excess capital (either through Special Dividends or Share buybacks) 4) End to PPI claims ... Its #2 & #3 I'm most most interested in given Lloyds statements about paying 60-70% of their sustainable profits in the medium term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletchsmile Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Agree with the analysis fletch but do think there is some good "upside" potential for Lloyds from:- 1) Government selling its final stake 2) Resumption of reasonable dividends 3) Return of excess capital (either through Special Dividends or Share buybacks) 4) End to PPI claims ... Its #2 & #3 I'm most most interested in given Lloyds statements about paying 60-70% of their sustainable profits in the medium term. Think 1) Should be positive overall 2) Definite positive 3) Possible, but I'm less convinced about the bank's ability to return excess capital as some analysts claim in the current and foreseeable regulatory environment. Also depends on smooth performance in coming years without hiccups 4) Would hope the worst is behind them for PPI. But as mentioned above there's an increasing trend for regulators to fine banks large amounts and you have to wonder what the next miss-selling scandal or banana skin would be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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