New Idea To Solve Bangkok's Traffic Problems

[george]

Newin unveils taxi plan to solve Bangkok’s traffic woes

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

After consulting representatives of 18 taxi organisations and related agencies yesterday morning at Government House, Newin said he believed he had gathered useful information about Bangkok’s clogged streets.

Suwannaphum Taxi Co-op representatives pointed out that there are up to 60,000 taxis on the streets looking for customers, wasting money on fuel and blocking traffic flows. They suggested that the government provide them with specific parking and pick-up spots. For roads suffering thick congestion such as Petchaburi, Sukhumvit or Rama IV, the spots could be in a soi away from the main road and the government should inform people where to find the taxis.

The government should also expand bus stops so taxis could pick up customers, they said. They also disagreed with the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration’s 150 “intelligent” taxi stands because the drivers would have to pay to install the required GPRS system to locate customers.

Newin said he would ask for a prime ministerial order or a Cabinet resolution for government offices to provide parking space for five to 10 taxis. He would also ask for co-operation from the private sector – big office buildings, hotels, shopping malls – to give parking space for taxis free-of-charge. At first this could be a request for co-operation to tackle the traffic problem but if that did not work, free parking space could take the form of a ministerial regulation, he said.

Next week, officials will hold discussions with taxi drivers to gather more information on the issue.

In a related development, Newin yesterday announced the official opening on October 3 of a project for students to sell tollway coupons during rush hours. More than 100 students have applied in person and via telephone so far, he said.

At 7.30am on Friday, Expressway and Rapid Transit Authority officials will run a trial at the Prachacheun tollway entrance, he said, while some 600 university students from Suan Dusit Rajabhat University will interview motorists for their opinions on traffic problems on Petchaburi, Sukhumvit, and Rama IV roads. He also invited the public to express their opinions and suggestions via the website www.thanonyim.com.

--The Nation 2005-09-15

[Hunter]

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

That has got to be the stupidest idea they have had in quite some time.

Cordially,

Hunter

[z21rhd]

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

That has got to be the stupidest idea they have had in quite some time.

Cordially,

Hunter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hunter,

Why do you think it is stupid ? Surely any idea to assist in solving a problem is worth

considering ? What suggestions do you have ?

[ChrisP]

He also invited the public to express their opinions and suggestions via the website www.thanonyim.com.

As one of the public, I would LOVE to express my opinions on this Web Site... but (as usual) it's all in Thai. (Which brings up another point of mine.. but I won't make it here... I'll save it for a new post.)

Regarding taxis, no matter what you think of them - and I've had my share of weirdos - .. they are one of the major reasons BKK is as industrious and productive as it is. They are (relatively) cheap.. conrolled by meter (what a successful plan that stuck!) .. and there are plenty of them. I think they are a BKK success story.

All major cities have Taxi Ranks... it's not unusual.. so why not BKK. It may not make TAHT much of a dent in the traffic, but it will help find one easier.. and stop so much "flagging down" hold-ups on the street.

As for the quality of the taxi experience.. my experience has been generally good. Certainly no worse than other major cities (apart from London). Ok there are some loonies out there.. but many of the drivers I've met are very smartly dressed, take a pride in their taxi, and drive very well.

And aren't the new PINK taxis SO cute!!

ChrisP

[dan10400]

maybe it isn't such an effective tool for oil conservation because

taxis in bangkok don't use petrol - use lpg. if they were using

petrol, they would probably be squealing like stuck pigs same as

the bus drivers were during the rapid petrol price increases.

of course, driving around looking for customers will cause some

traffic congestion, but likely marginal.

regards,

--dan

[nherd]

Good idea but it's doomed to fail. Relying on the generosity of big business? No I don't think so.

[terdsak_12]

CAR POOLING, No, Thais are too selfish for that.

In My Moo-Baan 7:30 every morning my missus leaves in her car to take our kid to school, at the same time dozens of other Mums and Dads do the same thing to the same school, and then back home again. I suggested that maybe they should talk to each other and maybe share the load. I received the usual look of "you must be insane".

[Gonzo the Face]

Newin unveils taxi plan to solve Bangkok’s traffic woes

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

Kn. Newin, wasn't this the same Newin who was relegated to an "Inactive post in the Prime Ministers office" for being a bad boy in several of his previous posts?

"Inactive" What is he doing thinking ?

[marquess]

Newin unveils taxi plan to solve Bangkok’s traffic woes

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

After consulting representatives of 18 taxi organisations and related agencies yesterday morning at Government House, Newin said he believed he had gathered useful information about Bangkok’s clogged streets.

Suwannaphum Taxi Co-op representatives pointed out that there are up to 60,000 taxis on the streets looking for customers, wasting money on fuel and blocking traffic flows. They suggested that the government provide them with specific parking and pick-up spots. For roads suffering thick congestion such as Petchaburi, Sukhumvit or Rama IV, the spots could be in a soi away from the main road and the government should inform people where to find the taxis.

The government should also expand bus stops so taxis could pick up customers, they said. They also disagreed with the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration’s 150 “intelligent” taxi stands because the drivers would have to pay to install the required GPRS system to locate customers.

Newin said he would ask for a prime ministerial order or a Cabinet resolution for government offices to provide parking space for five to 10 taxis. He would also ask for co-operation from the private sector – big office buildings, hotels, shopping malls – to give parking space for taxis free-of-charge. At first this could be a request for co-operation to tackle the traffic problem but if that did not work, free parking space could take the form of a ministerial regulation, he said.

Next week, officials will hold discussions with taxi drivers to gather more information on the issue.

In a related development, Newin yesterday announced the official opening on October 3 of a project for students to sell tollway coupons during rush hours. More than 100 students have applied in person and via telephone so far, he said.

At 7.30am on Friday, Expressway and Rapid Transit Authority officials will run a trial at the Prachacheun tollway entrance, he said, while some 600 university students from Suan Dusit Rajabhat University will interview motorists for their opinions on traffic problems on Petchaburi, Sukhumvit, and Rama IV roads. He also invited the public to express their opinions and suggestions via the website www.thanonyim.com.

--The Nation 2005-09-15

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What would be better, would be if: Taxes on petrol for cars and trucks was raised by 10%. With the revenue there from being put in a special fund to facilitate and finance non polluting forms of public transport.

This fund, should be managed by and independent committee, who would keep the public informed of how much was in the fund and what the money was being spent on.

This fund could be used to fund the Purple and Orange Lines and anyother froms of rail trainsport throughout the country.

The effect would be twofold, less car usage and inceased usage of public transport if it was there and efficient.

[Tango7]

Personally, I think there are much easier ways to solve the traffic woes.

After a very recent visit to London, I noticed that buses did not jump three lanes and then back again causing the traffic to jam up. Buses did not stop in the middle lane to pick passengers up and drop them off.

Yellow boxes were painted on the road at junctions meaning people can't stop their cars there at any moment, thus allowing for the free flow of traffic.

Drivers were, in the main, considerate to other drivers and did not adopt the "me first" attitude.

The side of the roads were not used as car parks hindering the flow of traffic. Here, a three laned or two laned road rapidly becomes two or one when one lane becomes a car park or someone just stops to do some shopping.

The roads did not have hawkers pushing or pulling their noodle stalls around or have noodles carts parked at the side of the road.

Basically, the roads need rules that people abide by, they need cleaning up so that traffic can flow properly and the police need to stop people parking where they want.

I guarantee that these measures will see a major improvement to the traffic situation far above that of taxi ranks and free parking for taxis...

Anyone thinking otherwise is just plain thick.

[LivinLOS]

Drivers were, in the main, considerate to other drivers and did not adopt the "me first" attitude.

But how would a system like this allow for the Merc and BMW drivers of this world to take automatic right of way from the lesser driver

As to the rest.. While I agree it may solve some traffic problems do we really want to fix everything ?? I have lived in London.. I like some chaos in my life, thats why I am here..

Of anywhere the Dutch have great use of limited roads (Amsterdam has tiny little cobbled alleys for lots of its inner city) but can you see bike lanes working in BKK ???

[danone]

another glorious idea - like closing the gasoline stations earlier.

sometimes I think thais dont deserve this beautiful country.

[ovenman]

Taxi queues are a good idea, but unless taxis are forced to use the queues, are not allowed to cruise the streets empty, and not allowed to pick up fares anywhere on the street when a queue is nearby (and all of these regulations are actually enforced), the queues are merely a waste of time and space.

[santhosh]

this would be the most stupidest idea of providing free of charge parking.....more free parking means more space for travel and more use of cars.....when will bangkok govt realize that they r prioritizing the car than the other sustainable means of transport...being a urban transport student i oppose this idea....I would suggest make a bus lane and increase the efficiency of the public transit....Any more ideas or comments on this???

[Scott]

I Agree with a number of posts. Flagging down a taxi, jamming the road while you negotiate with him about where you want to go does cause traffic woes. It's much better and easier to have a taxi queue somewhere. If one doesn't want to take you, doesn't know the way etc., another one will.

As for the car pooling, that is a problem. I drive to school everyday and watch parents doing the same. I told some of the kids to talk to their parents and if they wanted, I would give them a ride. The next day, two of them were standing at the corner. I've gotten money (I don't charge) and lovely notes from the parents saying how much they appreciate it and how much easier it makes their life.

Some of the responsibility is on foreigners to do our part as well.

[nikster]

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

That has got to be the stupidest idea they have had in quite some time.

Cordially,

Hunter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hunter,

Why do you think it is stupid ? Surely any idea to assist in solving a problem is worth

considering ? What suggestions do you have ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It will have a very limited effect. The number of Taxis is determined by demand. There will be as many taxis as there is demand. Therefore, the Taxis will be filled most of the time. A parked Taxi does not make money, so let's assume the Taxis are parket 10% of the time - an ideal case. Then there are 6000 cars less on the street because of the measure.

Its certainly worth considering, but its also worth considering who's lobbying for it and why it was brought up. There may be value to it in terms of traffic reduction, but how much remains to be seen. On the other hand, there is most certainly a lot of value from the point of view of Taxi operators. They get all this investment for free! Wow! Unfortunately, the public doesn't benefit from that.

Build more and better subways. It's the only way out.

[NextStationBangkok]

Newin unveils taxi plan to solve Bangkok’s traffic woes

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

--The Nation 2005-09-15

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only and the best idea to increase the Gasoline price to Baht 50. Because after the Oil price is increased the commuters are increased in the MRTA and BTS. Also government should shoot those who singly drive a Mercedes (or similar vehicles which drinks most of the fuel) during peak hours. I choose public bus always; I have never seen them very full during peak hours too. Does Thai's have some ego traveling in a public bus?

[coalminer]

this would be the most stupidest idea of providing free of charge parking.....more free parking means more space for travel and more use of cars.....when will bangkok govt realize that they r prioritizing the car than the other sustainable means of transport...being a urban transport student i oppose this idea....I would suggest make a bus lane and increase the efficiency of the public transit....Any more ideas or comments on this???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had a chat session with a Thai teacher in Bangkok a few years ago, and when I told her that I dont have a car simply because a car was not rendable for the few kilometers I make every month, she told me that I was crazy.

If owning a car was not rendable or not was not important.

The fact that I was having my own car was.

A car is a status symbol in Thailand, she said.

As another poster pointed out that his idea of sharing the available seats for bringing their kids to school, looks even crazier than the idea of this guy, is another proof.

As long as the Thais see their car as a status symbol and using it to go to eat at the nodle shop around the corner, nothing will improve the traffic.

This guy should try to launch "Taxi Stop" in Thailand and see what succes he would have with that.

Coalminer

[billd766]

Newin unveils taxi plan to solve Bangkok’s traffic woes

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

--The Nation 2005-09-15

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only and the best idea to increase the Gasoline price to Baht 50. Because after the Oil price is increased the commuters are increased in the MRTA and BTS. Also government should shoot those who singly drive a Mercedes (or similar vehicles which drinks most of the fuel) during peak hours. I choose public bus always; I have never seen them very full during peak hours too. Does Thai's have some ego traveling in a public bus?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Raising the fuel price is a fine idea if it is ONLY applied in Bangkok. However as 80% of the people of Thailand DO NOT live in Bangkok why should they have to pay more from their lesser salary to support Bangkok?.

Do as Singapore does. Ban single user cars in the centre and decide where you want the extent to be. Have an honest police force and enforce the traffic laws. Ban parents from transporting a single child to school. Ban all on road parking. Scrap all government vehicles over 2000cc and replace them with diesel, gas or electric ones. Stop all the government ministers travelling alone in one cars with 10 police escorts.

Good dream but it will cost too many votes and upset too many rich people.

[hkt83100]

CAR POOLING, No, Thais are too selfish for that.

In My Moo-Baan 7:30 every morning my missus leaves in her car to take our kid to school, at the same time dozens of other Mums and Dads do the same thing to the same school, and then back home again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd suggest a radical measure: Just force them to sent their kids to school and back by taxi. It's cheaper, saves gas, and gives those drivers some income. I get sick whenever I see all these Benzes and Volvos standing in front of a school, engines running, waiting for about one hour or more for the school to close. The drivers come early so the poor kids don't have to walk more than 10 meters to the waiting deep-freeze-cold limo....

Just 2 Baht worth of a comment.

[LivinLOS]

Toll inner city private car use drastically.. Taxi's and other 'public' can have monthly or no charges.. Simply make the cost of using a car in the areas where there is major congestion problems higher and other forms of transport becomes more appealing..

Use to toll money to build more and better public infrastructure.

[Thaipwriter]

Newin unveils taxi plan to solve Bangkok’s traffic woes

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem:

having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

--The Nation 2005-09-15

This is the kind of idea you would expect a child of say 13 or 14 to suggest????

dunno about u guys but I expect better from Government officials....

i dont think i'll get it, but i expect it!

[ChrisP]

I told my Thai that when I lived in New York I decided not to have a car (even though I could afford one) because I was happy to get around with Subways and Taxis, and not have the hassle of parking it, tickets, etc etc..

He just didn't understand why I wouldn't own a car - especially in New York - as a status symbol.

That's going to be an uphill struggle - selling the idea of less cars and less car usage in BKK.

ChrisP

[chuckygobyebye]

A few notes about the taxis in Bangkok. Firstly, they run on LPG which has been going up in price in lockstep with oil prices. However, the daily rental charge that drivers pay to the taxi owners has been going down, since taxi fares can only be raised by the government. Secondly, there's no limit on the number of taxi plates so the supply of taxis is not dictated by demand, the risk of going broke is borne by the driver.

They have taxi ranks and a ban on flagging down cabs in Kuala Lumpur and that seems to work OK.

It's my opinion that the traffic problems in Bangkok have a more sinister root cause -- traffic cops. Traffic cops are the only ones who have an intrest in congestion, the worse the traffic the more secure they are in their jobs. So I lay the blame at the feet of the ping-pong heads standing in the middle of intersections every morning. After all, it wasn't that long ago that they forced the government to abandon the computerised traffic light system they'd spent so much money on.

Sack 75% of the cops, put the lights on automatic and see how that goes.

[ovenman]

He just didn't understand why I wouldn't own a car - especially in New York - as a status symbol.

Cultural differences - New Yorkers might look at you strangely if you desire to own a car in the city, Many Bangkokians can't imagine why one would not want to own a car. Never the 'twain shall meet.

Even in Singapore where car ownership and use is actively discouraged, car ownership is still considered a sought-after status symbol (one of the five infamous C's: cash, cars, condominium, credit card, club membership). Some of what is tried in Singapore might work: toll access to the inner city areas, for example. But some of what Singapore does, such as making cars very expensive by needing a pricey Certificate of Entitlement before own can buy a vehicle, would not.

As billd766 pointed out, the vast majority of Thailand's population does not live in Bangkok, does not have access to viable transportation alternatives such as the Skytrain, subway, or here in Chiang Mai, even access to a functional public bus service. Why make everybody else suffer financially because of Bangkok's traffic problems?

[Foggy Bottom]

BANGKOK: -- PM’s Office Minister Newin Chidchobb has come up with a new idea to solve the capital’s traffic problem: having government offices, hotels and shopping malls give free-of-charge parking space for taxis to pick up customers.

That has got to be the stupidest idea they have had in quite some time.

Cordially,

Hunter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree - it is actually a very practical solution - consider how it's done in the west - having taxi ranks near major pedestrian confluences provides convenience for the pedestrian and the taxi. It also removes them from the rolling traffic flow thus reducing the vehicle numbers queuing at traffic lights etc.

In Bangkok, there seems to be few such facilities for them - Don Muang and Hualampong being the notable ones. Providing the spacing and locations are suitable, this could be a workable solution to remove up to 10,000 vacant taxis at a time from the traffic flow (rough estimate based on number of empty taxis as a percentage seen when in Bangkok)

--------------

My solution would also be simple - rather than increasing the road space to accomodate ever more vehicles, do as London did - make it more diofficult and expensive for private vehicles to get into the capital with only the driver using the vehicle - create congestion and encourage people onto mass transport systems. Of course that will need expansion of the BTS & underground, but the government already know that and have made some plans for it.

[rayw]

I personally think that this idea will help a little but to me it seems that a lot of the problem could be avoided by making traffic lights work on traffic sensors and even better then link them to a central traffic flow computer system. This is what makes traffic flow easier in London and many other western cities too. It is also relatively inexpensive compared to the millions of Baht the traffic congestion must cost every day.

I live way out in Rayong province and even there they just install traffic lights on a minor junction with a major road and put it on a simple timer, result big jams on the main road waiting for eternity whilst 1 or 2 cars come out of the side road. Simple well programmed PIR traffic sensor systems would surely avoid this stupidity everywhere in Thailand and make everyone happier including the companies that sell these systems <GG> (No, I am retired and do not work for any such company or even have shares in them either).

Someone quoted London's smoother flowing traffic, well do remember they have a quite expensive congestion charge to discourage drivers entering the central area. Not popular but it works and works very well. Drivers park up outside the city in park and ride areas and take public transport into the centre.

Finally I agree with one comment made here as I too like to see Thailand remain as Thailand and do not want Bangkok to become another London or New York. Bangkok has a character of it's own which should not be destroyed. But traffic light sensors and computerised trafffic flow systems would do a lot without destroying any of the cities character IMHO.

[cutter007]

Out of all the stupid ideas the Thai government comes up with, I don't think this one is that bad.

Normally government officials have the idea, to spend lots of money for very little results, but this one is fairly cheap to implement, and could help the traffic cause sizably.

I do understand though, that the problem is so bad now, that you probably won't notice much difference in the overall traffic.

To be honest, I think a lot of the posts on this site about possible fixes are far more ignorant than what has come out of a Thai politicians mouth in the last month.

"Inner city tolls, over inflating the market price of gas, forcing kids to ride

in taxis?”

This is Thailand, they don’t have the infrastructure to implement

things like this, it would take thousands of honest police to enforce some of these

suggestions. And over inflating the market price of gas, is about as realistic of an

idea, as selling gas for 5 baht a liter.

K. Newin is suggesting something that is possible to implement, because if you provide

the spaces then the taxi drivers probably will use them.

I don’t agree that the amount of taxi drivers is a simple supply and demand equation.

It is a case of a basic core fundamental of Thai’s doing business, hey if my neighbor

is doing it, it must be a good idea, while completely ignoring simple concepts like

competition.

There are probably too many taxi drivers in many locations than are needed, but

they actually can all afford to scrape by making just a little bit more, than they

could at an alternative job.

Yes, building more subways, is the best long term solution, but I think this one is

a decent idea to help in the short term.

[ovenman]

I live way out in Rayong province and even there they just install traffic lights on a minor junction with a major road and put it on a simple timer, result big jams on the main road waiting for eternity whilst 1 or 2 cars come out of the side road.  Simple well programmed PIR traffic sensor systems would surely avoid this stupidity everywhere in Thailand and make everyone happier including the companies that sell these systems

These sensor-activated traffic lights would be helpful just about anywhere in Thailand but like anything else, it would cost more money to install these and nobody wants to do that (until they figure out how to get a kickback from the transaction!).

[clevenp]

talking about tackling the traffic problem from many wrong angles ....

look at major cities in the world --> they have a good metro and (analog to) skytrain system but they also arrange parking spaces for those who use this kind of transport.

they call it in Germany "park and go" . It obviously works for those metropoles (it even works in the US)

but the main issue is here : the size of the transport net and how it is tackled.

while they were constructing the upper highway on bangna tras I see no evidence somebody was thinking about the extensions for skytrain ... but allas ... I forgot the urban planners have probably their own interests in the construction ...

by adding/forcing parking stop/waiting spaces for taxis someone is trying to bring some structure (and probably somebody will get paid for this) in a very unregulated business. and this does not make a lot of sense.

maybe the government should adopt the system as in Singapore : if you want to enter the city you pay for it (using the RFID tags in the cars)

about car pooling : this will never work in thailand: the car is an extention of the "face" value ... I am considered a poor farang because I don't have a car (I save approx 20 000 baht per month by using taxi/skytrain and occassionally renting a car for a few days). They ldon't love their car like the germans but they NEED the car for status and status is not to be shared as it would touch the core of "face" again : it is unimaginable to "ask" a person to share "his/her" ride as it would indicate that the person asking is either poor or even worse "stingy"

my 2 cents

Philip