TorquayFan

Hi again David - I've just read Sheryl's links and it seems Dr Nademanee might be back from the USA now and is based at Bumrungrad, (which I had also visited before my operation). That's good news as to his availability. I'm sure you can ask for him but he will have a top team around him no doubt. ATB

Sheryl - spot on with your recommendation there. Dr Nademanee did a catheter ablation for me in 2013. When later discussing it with an eminent Doc in Bristol, UK, I was surprised to hear that Dr Nademanee was regarded as the top expert worldwide in this field and in fact holds the patents for much of the technology in the equipment. So Dr Nademanee would be ideal at Bangkok Heart Hospital. I understood then that he had practices in the USA but in addition, visited Thailand for some months each year to work. He may or may not be available but BKKHH no doubt have a competent team. BTW, I remember waking up as the Nurse was dressing the exit wound at the top of my leg and eating a hearty lunch an hour later. Good luck !

Retarius - about 10.00 am - good post !

Thanks Vinny - Hadn't seen that but maybe the Driver can tell us what he was driving ! Bandersnatch - I posted the video to show the vehicle burning in the 'aisle'. As for the Fire Officer, yes but investigations are in early stages - I'm not even sure if they've accessed the unsafe building yet. Whatever is proven to have started the fire in the end, there is no doubt that EV contributed to this unprecented conflagration. Shocking !

Has anyone else seen video footage of the original burning vehicle at Luton airport? It appears to be in transit not in a parking space. Therefore it had a Driver (presumably) who should be able to identify the vehicle involved. With 1200 vehicles and a car park written off, I think it would be nice to know . . . . A slightly dodgy video IMO, but the picture of the car on fire, if genuine , is curious . . . .

An echo of a comment from Billd earlier - in the past it would have been possible to visit the British Embassy and get an 'Emergency Passport' - hopefully such help can still be obtained in genuine circumstances. Years ago, I got one from the British Embassy in Lagos, Nigeria which allowed me to leave the Country and they later helpfully recovered my original passport from my Employer, (a very powerful Man), and returned it to me in the UK. (I then returned to Nigeria to work for another Company). Snoop - you've gotta ask at least ! Good luck.

I thought you might also enjoy this B :- "Car park spaces should become wider and burning electric cars dunked in baths of water, under proposed government guidelines to prevent battery fires spreading out of control. Ministers have been told that battery-powered vehicles pose a medley of risks in indoor car parks, which could render 1960s-era fire safety laws dangerously out of date. Areas of concern addressed in a government-commissioned report included explosions of flammable vapour clouds emitted by electric vehicle batteries, as well as jets of fire and toxic water run-off from firefighting. The report, from consultancy Arup, which makes a series of recommendations for changes to fire safety rules, said that there was a “high degree of uncertainty” about data on the fire risks of electric cars and that it is “not yet understood” whether their batteries become more of a fire hazard with age." And : "Solutions presented in the report included increased space between parked cars as well as greater distance between indoor car parks to manage the risk of fire spreading between cars and buildings. It said indoor and multi-story car parks should adopt larger parking bays to help firefighters reach burning vehicles, with one example in the report proposing a 90cm to 1.2 metre gap between vehicles. It comes as residents of a Labour-run council in London fight to block plans to build an electric bus garage under a development of thousands of new flats amid fears battery fires could cause a “volcano”. " The same article refers to an incident in Potters Bar in May 2023 when six electric buses were destroyed when one caught fire. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-zero/burning-electric-cars-dunked-baths-water-stop-fires-spread/ That's it ! ATB

Hi Bandersnatch, I'm not sure why you have posted that link to the Fire Service report which I find inconclusive. The last I heard, the site of the fire had not yet been accessed at all due to the post-fire instability of the whole car park structure. I noted this from your link - "Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service’s fire investigation team will be working closely with Bedfordshire Police to get a better understanding of what happened on Tuesday evening, and why." Seems early days as to the cause . . .

Footnote : https://uk.yahoo.com/news/1-400-vehicles-burned-luton-143433280.html

I started this thread as follows : "It's becoming increasingly obvious that a widespread rush to EV may be problematic - Thailand (and all Nations), need to find the right role for them. The use of EV in big Cities obviously makes some sense, reducing pollution, in say BKK and Chiang Mai " Thanks for all the replies and discussion - I've learned some things but I think the original proposition still looks the right one for me. EV's exist and anyone who who wants one, for all of the positive reasons, should get one. It's obvious that many EV owners love them atm - but it is early days ! I'm an ICE addict and won't be changing, (at 76), but I do have some insight into EV 'joys' as one of my Sons in the UK has had an £88K Mercedes EQC AMG for a couple of years. It is a fantastic vehicle BUT for example, on a return journey from Leeds to Cornwall recently, he had to make 2 recharge stops. MMMmmm So returning to it, IMO Govts should push them for use in major urban areas to lower local pollution but otherwise, it's best left to us to decide what we want, (and take the consequences). On this front, the vilified Mayor of London Sadiq Khan is surely on the right track . . . ? I am still concerned about the dangers of the rare (?) but intense fires but maybe as battery technology improves this aspect will improve. We don't really know yet about battery life - if it settles around 8/10 years, how much ooomph will be left as the time for replacement approaches ? What will the cost of a new battery be by that time and will the improved technology be available in the replacement market. We've yet to learn but time will tell . . . and I hope insurance premiums stay reasonable. At the heart of my objection is Govt's base policy and act as if EV's will save the World from it's problems with pollution - that's just not so. The UK's 2035 guillotine on ICE sales is IMO plainly ridiculous. That's it for me - thanks Guys

Gweilo I've watched many videos and read a lot on both sides of the debate and reached this balanced view. Which brings me to an EV problem not mentioned yet - tyre wear particle dust IS a major pollutant on the roads and ends up in the water system. Because of the excess weight of EV, tyre wear is much higher. In the UK apparently MOT fails due to tyres are 30% higher on EV's. Khun LA - yes it's easy to agree about the obvious advantages of EV and the drawbacks too. You have an EV and it suits you and that's great - my main concern is industry led or Govt. thrusts to change to EV's wholesale because it won't solve the wider issues. Thanks Pogust for that link - worth the watch BFN and ATB

Bandersnatch - "A guy who doesn’t own an EV telling those of us who do that there are no EV chargers in Thailand." I did NOT say that . . . read back . . . . . and THIS is what I said about the Luton fire - "I saw a plausible theory that the diesel Range Rover identified as catching fire first, was probably a hybrid version." Yes I saw that on a YouTube, watching carefully, the origin of the fire seemed to be coming from the area behind the front wheel on the left side which is where the hybrid battery is. The EV aspect is being played down widely but we don't know yet - however, it's 'a plausible theory'. Khun LA - yes there is agreement with proEV and EV skeptics about the obvious points. And you observe, the EV is right for you and that's great - it does make sense in many cases. But the main idea in my thread was about Countries pushing EV policy and I have acknowledged that for some, an EV is bang on ! If some want to choose EV that's fine.

JB that's rubbish . . . .

Bandersnatch - Ouch ! Yes I knew about Norway - of course, it's a very small and very prosperous Country and they seem well organised too. Further helped by this factor - "battery-electric vehicles were also exempted from value-added and import taxes, which are traditionally high on cars in Norway." Now I'm trying to watch the Pogust link. ATB

Thanks Pogust - that looks worth a watch. ATB

Bandersnatch - the point you make about solar charging for EV is a good one - a neat solution. However some have no possibility of a solar solution, e.g. when living in apartments. And some may be unable to afford that solar installation. Surely, if EV were 50% of the total rather than 5% (?), that would that also be a significant loss of feedback of solar power to the grid? I understood that the battery pack was the significant factor in increasing the environmental costs of the EV.

Laccesit and Donnie - the point you make is the first I myself EMPHASISED in my opener - "The use of EV in big Cities obviously makes some sense, reducing pollution, in say BKK and Chiang Mai and although EV cause extra pollution in the area the vehicle is manufactured in, it still makes some sense." Battery life - I see Tesla and Nissan guarantee 100K miles - so my own brilliant diesel Toyota would be approaching it's 3rd battery set now ! Wide experience with EV is just a few years old. Let's see how people feel in 5 years time . . . Weight on the roads - yes another significant problem - heads into the sand again you EV fans ! Khun LA - you seem very defensive - are you secretly concerned about your EV decision? And the Luton fire was not laughable with 1200 vehicles damaged and it's a miracle no lives were lost. IMO as yet there is no authoritative data as the cause. Here's more to cheer you up - "John Lewis has stopped offering insurance to electric car drivers amid fears over the cost of repairs. The department store’s lending business John Lewis Financial Services has put a temporary pause on customers taking out cover or renewing existing policies on battery-power vehicles while its underwriter, Covéa, analyses risks and costs. Insurers are facing rising costs for vehicle repairs, which are eating into profits. According to the Association of British Insurers (ABI), vehicle repair costs rose 33pc over the first quarter of 2023 compared to 2022, helping to push annual premiums to record highs . . . . . . . . The battery is also generally the most expensive part of an electric car and can account for as much as 50pc of the vehicle’s value, costing between £14,200 and £29,500. " https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/bills/insurance/john-lewis-stops-insuring-electric-cars/ And "David was shocked when the insurance on his Tesla Model Y came up for renewal, and Aviva refused to cover him again, while several other brands turned him away. When David did secure a new deal, the annual cost rocketed from £1,200 to more than £5,000. “My insurer was Aviva from July 2022 to July 2023, but when it was coming up for renewal, I received a letter stating that they would not be covering the Tesla Model Y any more,” David says. “I am a member of a Tesla UK owners forum, and lots of other people seem to be having the same issue.” In the Facebook group, members share stories of horror renewal quotes, with increases ranging from 60% (up to £1,100) to a staggering 940% (a jump from £447 to £4,661, according to a screengrab shared by one driver)." https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/quotes-were-5-000-more-090011337.html Good luck with it Guys. Anyone lusting for a pretty EV I'd say - 'think it through'. ATB

Motdaeng - you say "there's hardly a reason for a homeowner in a rural (as you described yourself) area not to own an ev." Really ? I certainly didn't get that impression from the posts I've read. I think we are all "open to receiving arguments from experienced ev users" but I've not noticed many here so far. In passing I wonder how "experienced ev users" will feel when their batteries fail at 8 years + and it costs THB 100K minimum to replace them or when their insurance premiums go up, which can't be long . . . Ben I agree EV may be suitable as 2nd car runarounds but in 3-5 years time, the batteries in 2nd hand vehicles will be getting old. Oh, and the 'range' such as it is, starts to fall at that stage, (as it does with the a/c on).

Thanks for replies all. JB - so NOT a balanced opinion. In what way Sir? Any examples? Any contrary facts? Or your head in the sand? Actually, there was almost NO opinion in there - just what I have read about and seen! No Jungle I'm not a Fan because of what I read and see. Eff1n - OK but I think it's a rush here and for example - the UK too. Khun LA - I disagree . . . JB again - ah, but just wait until those EV are older - Folks won't be so chuffed with them then . . . Tropical - yes China have the bulk of the minerals needed for EV and will exploit that to the full. Negita - any immersion in water can cause problems weeks later as I read it. JB again again - good advice this time. Jo Bloggs - I venture that they are still finding out and I love your faith that 'they' have thought of everything. ATB

It's becoming increasingly obvious that a widespread rush to EV may be problematic - Thailand (and all Nations), need to find the right role for them. The use of EV in big Cities obviously makes some sense, reducing pollution, in say BKK and Chiang Mai and although EV cause extra pollution in the area the vehicle is manufactured in, it still makes some sense . . . . . though, how do persons living in an apartment block or in a house with no driveway/carport/garage, manage to get the charge supply to the vehicle. Further, the national capacity for electricity generation for vast numbers of EV will be an issue - a street with every house having EV's will need an uplift in the capacity of the local electricity infrastructure. It's worth noting that. the rush to build massive numbers of EV is questionable because according to very detailed research by Volvo, the environmental tag for EV manufacture is so much higher that it is not repaid until the vehicle has done an extra 100,000 km than an ICE vehicle. Further problems of excess weight overloading multi story parks, (a collapse in New York), expensive battery replacement and lower second hand values, should not be ignored by purchasers. Also I read recently that some Insurer's were increasing premiums and even refusing cover for EV's because of the high repair costs, including batteries. Noting that EV are at a problem at repair yards, because, if the battery pack has been 'compromised' at all, the risk of a battery fire is much higher - recommendations to store damaged EV very widely spaced makes repair costs very high. it's also worth bearing in mind that a battery pack might be damaged by hitting a hump in the road, mounting a kerb and so on. MMMmmm Regarding the mooted hazard of spontaneous combustion, it does seem that EV are much less likely to catch fire than ICE, BUT, the problem is that an EV fire is wildly intense and there are many cases of EV catching fire, on charge, off charge, whenever. yes that's WILDLY intense. I saw the suggestion that multi-story car parks should be installed with sprinklers. That's a crazy sop to the problem - sprinklers won't impact on the ferocity of an EV fire. Even fully equipped fire services can't put them out - it's a wait for burnout. One can read of cases where the EV fire results in the house burning down too. Apparently a complete Tesla dealership in France was fire wiped ! And a fire in a car park in Glasgow and of course, the terrible fire at Luton Airport - of course the PR machines will play down the EV factor but I saw a plausible theory that the diesel Range Rover identified as catching fire first, was probably a hybrid version. Whatever started it, reports that as the fire spread, EV's were bursting into flames creating a domino effect. At Luton, it's thought that 1200 vehicles were destroyed - what's that gonna do for premiums . . . ? However, IF you discount all the above, then here's another problem - maybe you'll be OK if you can charge at home but if you want to do long journeys, allow ages of extra time for recharging AND waiting for access to recharging. Noting there's some long journeys in Thailand - (say Hua Hin to Chaing Mai) MMmmm. As the proportion of EV increases this problem will get much worse and I notice these comments from the UK recently - "Britain’s biggest motorway service station provider has brought in marshals to police “charge rage” among electric vehicle drivers battling for access to plug-in points. Moto chief executive Ken McMeikan warned the UK’s motorway service stations are facing growing “public disorder” due to a lack of grid connections preventing him from installing enough car chargers to meet the surge in demand. It means many motorists are facing long waits, with angry drivers confronting staff and each other over the lack of charging facilities." EV's have some advantages and some do look good - but I think you can guess that I won't be buying one. Not in this lifetime ! ATB

Well said Mary ! It'll be interesting to see if Trump is actually nailed by the many apparently well-based legal cases being pursued against him. The USA is an amazing nation with millions of highly talented Folks - how the hell do they end up with a Biden or a Trump at the top of governance ? It defies the imagination !

I'm certainly NOT anti-vax but I do share the many reservations about mRNA. Further, Pfizer and Moderna are reported to have increased prices five fold for the current covid vax. DNA vaccines could be the way forward - Texas BioMed are working with a DNA vaccine already tested in RSA - NO side effects and needle free delivery. Addressing the nucleosid of the protein it is able to address new variants more effectively. https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2023/10/02/new-type-of-covid-vaccine-showing-promise-at-texas-biomed/ This vaccine was developed by Scancell in Nottingham UK but they are preoccupied with their own well advanced platforms for cancer vaccines, e.g. their SCIB1 for stage 3 / 4 melanoma having recently reported responses of 80% in conjunction with the 'standard of care' CPI's alone, achieving only 50% responses. Good luck to BioMed and Scancell. Well done the Nobel winners . . . .

Thanks for the effort Jim - I hope it turns out a LOT more simple than that. ATB

Sorry if I've missed this point, but I haven't read all 43 pages. Does anyone know the % rate of tax that might be applied. 0% would be great ???? 2% tolerable, 5% hurts and 20% maybe time to go home !

Thanks Lou - did you get out on the wrong side today ? This is NOT a moaning thread - it's a potentially major problem for existing Barclay's customers ! I'm not with Barclay's myself but I sensed it might be an issue many years ago when I moved to Thailand. For good reasons, I kept my a/c at a UK address which has worked out fine so far. It would be pretty stupid to go looking for trouble on the point ! As it happens I have BKK and KT a/c's here.