Leaver

Sure, but as mentioned in another post, is it possible a development like this actually creates more derelict prime site eyesores around Central Pattaya, as it puts many other places out of business?

I didn't brush off your opinion. I am happy to listen to all points of view. You say "has now become attractive enough" but what has changed here to become attractive to domestic tourists? Where were they in 2019, pre covid? Is it possible it's the same old Pattaya, but they have have had some "attractive" events, and prices, over the last few weeks? Will they stop coming to Pattaya when the tourists come back? I only see it as a plus if they spend here. The beach is free. It's not uncommon for Thai's to do a day trip to Pattaya Beach, and bring their own. What does the Pattaya economy see out of these day trippers? This is my point, newative. Using your example of T21, what if 10 new malls are built in the next few years? What would that do to T21? In your opinion, how many malls can Pattaya, with both domestic and international tourism, support? Do you think T21 took some customers off Central? Look what's happened to The Avenue. Now, apply the same "pie slices" theory across all other businesses here and surely there is a point of saturation where they basically all don't make money because there are just too many businesses offering the same products / services. Just look at the condo properties here, even pre covid, and they keep building more. I know what you are getting at, survival of the fittest, but what about all the vacant buildings a very large development could create, should they basically have a monopoly? Really? Who was doing well? That is not my point. Your point is this development is a good investment. My point is that it very well may be a good investment, but it means other investors may lose their money. It's not about stopping progress, more a warning to investors that tourism, property, retail, hospitality etc businesses are operating in an extremely volatile market here, thus, making them very risky investments. Certainly, no proper town planning doesn't help the situation. Well, covid has wiped the majority of them out, but looking back at high season 2019, the bars were not busy. Sure, i agree, but we are not talking about rundown old relics. Is Central old and run down? Yet, they build T21. Bad luck for the investors in Central, I suppose. Just as it will be bad luck for the investors in T21, when this gets built. Say this new development puts Central and T21 out of business. Never mind the investors who lose out, that's the gamble you take, but that's two relatively new malls that are deserted. Not a great look for Pattaya, and what becomes of all the empty shops inside, and the building itself, it just slips into disrepair.

Who do you think made money out of all these people this weekend?

It's going to be a whole new game, for everyone, post covid. Businesses staying with the old business model of lady drinks and bar fines will enjoy a short revival, and then struggle. Times are changing, and in my opinion, unless Thai landlords come to the table and be reasonable, I can't see many of the vacant buildings here being tenanted again in the next few years.

OP, you may have been lucky to get back when you did. The new variant coming out of South Africa is seeing new boarder closures happening all around the world. Hug your son, and appreciate every day you have with him.

This is only for 2 days / nights. Even if Pattaya hosted big events every weekend, post covid, for the Bangkok Thai's, that only makes Pattaya busy for 96 days out of 365 days in the year. Does that pay the bills? Once again, events would have to be held every weekend, and even then, does being busy 8 nights of a month even cover staff salaries? Who pays to host the events? Can city hall afford to keep hosting? Do they even care? Did you see any of the people attending the fireworks show actually buy anything from a shop in T21? The beach restoration is free for these domestic tourists. Are there enough domestic tourists to see that most hotels, guest houses etc survive? As you said, "all the nice new hotels that have been built - large and small." What about the older established hotels? What about their investment? This is my point. Build a nice new hotel, no matter how big, or how small, and it comes at a cost to smaller, or larger, older hotels, because there is just not enough tourists, domestic and / or international, to fill them all, and, they keep building more. So whilst you see lights on in the hotels you mention, would you care to comment on all the hotels where you didn't see lights on, or do they not count? Do you have any sympathetic words for those business owners? What will become of those businesses and buildings? As for Pattaya being an attractive destination for many, look at the beach and the ocean water. Hardly attractive, is it? Pattaya is famous for its adult nightlife. The fact that they mislead Chinese and Russians that it is a tropical paradise is another conversation. Ok, but at what cost to established buildings / businesses? One big new shiny building / business is built, which sends 10 other buildings and their businesses broke, do yo say Pattaya is booming? What about the vacant buildings this will cause? Hardly an appearance of a thriving Pattaya economy. Once again, weekends of domestic tourism does not make a tourist industry. It is "perhaps" or is it "benefit of other businesses?" Question: In your opinion, just how many condo's, malls, hotels etc is the right amount for them all to survive here? Do you think the saturation point has been reached, is near, or is nowhere near? I think back to the 2019 high season, and all was not well here. Post covid, why would it be any different?

Let's imagine for one moment this gets built, and is successful. Shops, hotel, restaurants, nightclub, bars etc - all busy. What about the other shops, hotels, restaurants, nightclubs, bars etc in Pattaya that they send broke? It's one thing to look at a development like this and think Pattaya must be a good investment, but only IF it's a success, and even then, it comes at the expense of other investors that invested in other developments, who lose their money. They keep cutting the pie into smaller slices here, and cheap Chinese, Russian and Indian package holiday tourists do not eat pie.

I'm quite sure Thai landlords had a role to play as well.

Well, after more than 9,500 posts, that's great. ????

Pretty sure it is / was Beza Place on Soi Lengkee. Seems to have an Israeli connection.

I would move. I have that luxury because I rent, and will never buy here, for the same reasons you mention in your post. There is no "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware) in relation to property here, because there are no proper town planning laws here, and that's on top of the foreign ownership of property laws. Those that buy take the gamble. Some lose. The western saying of "rent is dead money" is not applicable in Thailand for foreigners.

They just taxed one of their employees, that all.

Without a casino on lucky floor number 8, for the Chinese, a development like this will not make money. I am sure somewhere in the design is provision for a casino.

It will be a long time before these types of bars will be tenanted again, if ever. Perhaps the Thai landlord will put some caretaker Thai's in to keep the lights on, whilst trying to sell it to a farang newbie dreamer.

A method of mongering, mainly from apps, that I am sure will increase well after Thailand and the bars properly open.

They will not stop until everything is concreted over and can be either rented, or sold.

As an example of the situation I gave in a previous post, here is a fire sale. Price drop of around 75%, yet, location is good, set to be very near the centre of the nightlife once Pattaya opens up properly. https://www.bahtsold.com/view/pattaya-guesthouse-restaurant-sensational-discounted-444861

I contemplated starting a "New Openings" style thread, and still might, if no other member has done so, but the economic climate is currently not right for such a thread to be started. We saw with Beach Road Witherspoons that it closed before it ever really opened.

I disagree. When they announced bars not opening until 15th January 22, that killed any idea of some type of high season here. Of those that are just holding on, many may now be done. Also, as the months tick by, key money becomes due, as well and new leases. Many may not be able to pay to stay in their business. Even when the borders are open without hoops, and the bars are open as well, those receiving a covid discount on their rent will see full rent reinstated, as well as all their costs such as salaries, utilities, tea money etc go back to full expense, yet, tourism is not back in full swing. For many, this will be their most expensive time throughout covid. Those will deep pockets may see it through, others may not. The thread is more relevant now than when I started it, way before covid, as tourists prepare to come come to Pattaya. Unfortunately, there will be more closures ahead.

Well, the new variant coming out of South Africa doesn't look good. Borders already be closed, all around the world.

No doubt a demand for a corrupt payment will be made.

Thai Friendly has become the new Soi 6, minus all the BS. ????

Yes, but not the Pattaya population. Most of the crowd came from elsewhere, most likely Bangkok, so they will return there, and may end up admitted to hospital in Bangkok, not Pattaya. No doubt, one of the reasons they are happy to hold such events here. Happy to make the money from hosting an event, without the expense of future hospital care. Completely different opening the bars, nightclubs etc. That brings staff to Pattaya, mainly from Issan, where many are still unvaccinated. Cooks, cleaners, waitresses, bar girls, reception, retail etc, many moving back here to work, and should they get sick and need hospital admission, that may overload Pattaya's hospitals. Statistically, it will rise, but those cases will not be on Pattaya's / Chonburi's books. What will be interesting is, the Pattaya Mayor may claim, "see, big event, many people, not much extra covid in Pattaya" whilst the extra covid is among people that attended the event and have gone back home to be an extra case in their province. He can host super spread events, without future medical costs to Pattaya.

In that case, Thai landlords will raise the rent even higher, because their bar now has water views. ????

Apps are open 24/7/365. ????