Jingthing

Hey how about minding your own flippin' bidness? Too many Karens in the world and some are men.

Yes of course there are outside the house influences. Even the democrats in the house have some power because the republican majority is so slim.

The house does budgets. Republicans control the house. Duh.

Interesting. But that is an opinion and if you're not a Thai tax lawyer how much power does that have with Thai Revenue? The opinion from expat tax Thailand which has a foreign spokesman but is Thai owned with Thai tax expert staff has a very different opinion. Who are Joe Sixpack expat Americans supposed to listen to?

Makes sense. But at least that would prove there was no intention of evasion. At this point I would almost prefer that it be treated as fully accessible pension income even if costs me some tax because at least I wouldn't be worried about maybe having to fight with TR over a complex matter I have little confidence about. I wonder how many months or years it will take to reach clarity about this

I have a traditional IRA which was a rollover from a 401k which did include employer match contributions. Obviously more complex than Roth. So practically speaking I'm more confused than ever how to deal with this. You know dealing with tax clerks that don't speak English and don't know diddly squat about all the complexities of the different types of US retirement accounts. But they will know they are not social security which happily is explicitly exempt. I was planning on doing an IRA withdrawal this year but now I won't. Rather I will wait until this shakes out with reports about people's actual experiences it almost seems like the US embassy should get involved but of course they won't. I have another question. If I go to a THAI tax lawyer and follow his advice about my IRA If audited and the lawyer was wrong, is that protection from consequences above paying what TR says I should have paid? I think tax planning at this point is nearly impossible.

They want a strong man oligarchy /autocracy led by a dictator God.

That was one irrelevant error. How was it error filled?

That is about money in the bank. IRAs and 401ks are very specialized, very rules based retirement accounts. They are in no way bank accounts. Until someone has some evidence from Thai tax experts that says differently, I don't see any evidence that the balance of retirement accounts classed as accessible PENSIONS in Thailand on December 31, 2023 is exempt at all. The taxable event happens when you make a withdrawal. It should be noted here that non-retirement account investments (stocks, bonds, real estate) etc. are definitely not looked at as far their book value of December 31, 2023. If you had a stock for 50 years and sold it now for a profit, the cost basis would be from 50 years ago. Not the price on December 31 2023 I encourage people who are engaging with Thai tax experts to ask this specific question and share. We are all still learning.

Indeed indeed. but for now , I'm pretty sure that IRAs and 401Ks will be classed as accessible pension income and the FULL AMOUNT of withdrawals will be the relevant number as far as the portion of that FULL AMOUNT remitted to Thailand. This video gets into this fairly well. If anyone has any evidence that IRAs and 401Ks can be accounted for in a cost basis profit/loss manner as non retirement account investments are, please post it. I'm not pretending to be any kind of expert. I'm just trying to figure all this stuff out so I can tax plan better. On the IRA/401K thing, I'm sure these answers will be of interest to the majority of retired American expats in Thailand. Some good news in the video. It implies because of the DTA that IF you must pay tax in Thailand on any of these vehicles you can get a credit back from the U.S. Apparently under the DTA ONLY THAILAND has a claim to tax these vehicles. It implies for example that if you must pay Thai tax on your Roth IRA withdrawal which is tax free in the U.S. that you can file for that money to be refunded to you by the IRS.

Honestly I don't know of even one retired expat who filed Thai taxes referring to international transfers up till now. WHY? Because of the famous loophole wide as the Holland Tunnel about money from previous years always being exempt. So transfers of things like pensions was really OFF THE RADAR of both expats and I think TR as well. But that rule has changed. So while I get what you're saying, I don't think it's really relevant to the CURRENT situation.

Started Interior Chinatown tv series and I'm going for more. A crime drama but more as it includes a satirical commentary on Asian American stereotypes and two of the leads will be very well known to Americans. Jimmy O. Yang best known for his comedic role on the hit show Silicon Valley and comedian Ronny Chien best known for The Daily Show.

You're touching on another aspect of interest to me. Examples. Withdrawal 10k from Traditional IRA. 10k taxable in the US. 10k taxable if sent to Thailand. Withdrawal 10k from Roth IRA. Zero.taxable in the US. 10k taxable if sent to Thailand Double taxation rules may apply but not exempt like social security. Now the source of the 10ks within the retirement accounts could be a single stock or a complex mix of stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etfs, etc. Each source element within would have a profit or loss basis. However it is my understanding that as these are classed as pensions not regular investments that the taxable number of relevance would be the full 10k and not the profit on the source investments if any. Unlike if you held the same investments outside the retirement accounts in which case capital gains would be the thing to look at upon sale. Your post above suggests differently. Still seeking a definituve answer on this.

Bring popcorn.

Well, IF you believe this firm, then I think I have now found quite clear information on the IRA/401K exemption question. Must be savings in the bank on December 31, 2023 ONLY SAVINGS in the bank. IRAs/401Ks are definitely NOT savings in the bank. This firm says they are seen as pensions by TR. Accessible income when withdrawn and transferred (unfortunately!). Episode 7: Pre-2024 savings explained Of course it's possible other firms and/or TR has a different opinion, but frankly it ain't looking good for that exemption for U.S. retirement accounts. Another crappy thing about the treatment of U.S. retirement accounts is that unlike non retirement investments, you can't use cost basis to only be liable for the capital gains (if any). Instead you're dealing with the full amount of withdrawals. For example, withdrawal 10K USD from your IRA, transfer that to Thailand, that's 10K USD of Thailand tax accessible income. That 10K might have been from the sale of one stock in your IRA where the capital gain was 1K within the IRA, but still you're in for the full 10K.

I hope you're right. Except for from you, EVERYTHING that I've read about this issue says you're wrong. Retirement account balances are NOT INCOME. They are retirement INVESTMENT VEHICLES. By your logic the balance in a taxable brokerage account (stocks and bonds) on December 31, 2023 would also be not accessible the same as money in the bank. But such accounts are definitely NOT treated as you think IRAs and 401Ks are. You see that's the thing -- the information on non retirement investments like stocks and bonds is much more clear. I understand why there is still controversy about IRAs and 401Ks. Which is why I and all other retired Americans with such accounts would benefit from a definitive ruling. Your subjective opinion, with all respect, is not that. How much of the vehemence of your opinion on this is wishful thinking?

You're missing that IRAs and 401ks are not bank accounts. While not exactly pensions by US definition, my current understanding is that TR classes them as PENSIONS and sadly not exempt under the DTA as social security is.

You're totally wrong. https://theconversation.com/the-election-is-over-but-what-is-a-lame-duck-anyway-242377 The 2024 election has finally ended. What happens now? There’s a 2½-month period between Election Day and Inauguration Day. It’s commonly known as the “lame-duck” period, when the outgoing president still holds official power but their successor has been chosen and is waiting to take the reins. Donald Trump is constitutionally barred from a third term in office by the 22nd Amendment, so he will be a lame duck from his first day in office, though his successor will not be known until 2028.

That makes sense but I suppose but I was kind of getting at INTENTIONS based on practical realities. It would be hard to know how any particular office would respond if audited and you explained what you did and why and had a record. But yeah better not to try that. Cheers.

The previous year's income being exempted when transferred in the current year is exactly what they changed already! The December 31, 2023 thing for savings exemption is the last time that works as it has been changed.

Of course, because it's an anti-democracy pro fascist movement or pro autocracy movement for the easily triggered. I recall interviews with maga crowds during the campaign circus asking the cult members --- would you choose Harris or Putin? Always Putin. American democracy is in deep peril.

Thanks, but that was only one of my questions and probably so obvious that I shouldn't have asked it. It's basically about mixing up the source account which I'm pretty sure is very common thing for people to do. The trickiest part was my question that basically asked if I quickly moved Thai accessible income out of the bucket account (domestically abroad), could I delay that amount from being accounted as already in the bucket account (FIFO) until a later date of my choice?

No. It is you that doesn't understand. Don’t Listen to Steve Bannon. Trump Will Be a Lame Duck, not a Third-Termer | Washington Monthly

Well, at least the upcoming Musk regime won't be boring!

So does Trump. DUH. That is, if he follows the constitution. In his case, a big IF.