valves and guides.

[thaiguzzi]

Next door, where the bikes live;

[thaiguzzi]

Thread repairs, common, imperial and metric, and not so common (unique HD 1/4" x 24 TPI, 7mm);

 

 

[overherebc]

47 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

My best friend had one of these. Couldn't find/afford a real back tire so being way ahead of the Harley guys he put a car tire on the back. One day going home for lunch ran into the side of a Morris 1000 van (practical joke gone wrong) . Bent the van behind the door and pushed the fan up against the radiator. The Sunbeam has a bent mudguard!

Biggest problem with mine was the electrics sticking out the front of the engine behind the front wheel. On a wet day it seemed to get 99% of the water coming off the front tyre, Left me sitting in the rain a few times. A good layer of grease didn't look pretty but worked.

[thaiguzzi]

13 hours ago, overherebc said:

Numbers frame and engine both relate to original manufacture, checked with BSA UK.

No change of frame or anything from original.

My experience of Brit bikes goes back to the 60's and vibrations or engine buzz was a common thing. They were fairly mass produced for cheap transport in the 50's/60's after the war and using old tooling used for war mass production.

Had lots, Sunbeam 500 in line twin, C11 Bsa, C15 G ( the sports version ?? ) AJS 500, Tiger Cub 200 etc. They all had vibes.

The real changs came when Honda brought out the CB 750, that was smooth, had a CB 650 first and that was good at the time but the CB750 changed everything. 

Game changer was my CX650 Turbo in 81. Scary the first time you ride it. Even today people don't believe how quick it was off the line in 1981. I won't quote the fiqures, google it.

??

The only thing for sure in the above, was that all the industry suffered  from antiquated clapped out tooling. That's what happens when your on the winning side in WW II....

Yeah, sure, some bikes vibrate more than others. But an A7? And badly? And worse than a quote "bad HD"? Nah, something amiss. Seriously amiss. 

Have you ever ridden a well set up Brit twin or single? ie something that is not stock from the factory, but been pulled apart, blueprinted and put together properly? Chalk and cheese.

Perhaps, if you have no love or appreciation for your vibrating Brit 500 twin, it's time to move it on. Maybe get something like a Z300 or CB500. I hear they are just as fast, if not faster, more reliable, have thumb instead of kick start, and, er, don't vibrate.

Sewing machines never do. Real motorcycles always will.

My 830cc Triumph runs a Weslake billet stroked crank, it was made for, and came out of a grass track sidecar racer, so, exceptionally heavy. Balance factor originally was probably round the 55-60%. Stock 650-750 unit Triumph twins like an 85% balance factor. My dynamic balance people could not get that factor, ( the steel Carillo rods didn't help), and had to finish up around the 74-75% region. To even get to that, heavy metal (tungsten) had to be added, see pic of the crankshaft assembly earlier this year...

This bike is pretty smooth (for an 830cc parallel twin), and does not vibrate badly at highway speeds, anywhere from 60-90 mph is relatively smooth and effortless. However, just off idle, around the 1500- 2250 rpm range, my eyeballs vibrate in my eye sockets, no word of a lie.

1. That's called the balance factor and where the vibes come in at what rpm, and how bad.

And

2. It's called Character. it's called Soul.

 

 

 

Oh, and an 81 CX650 Turbo.

Don't know what one is, what it looks like, nor am I remotely interested.

I read this thread because it mentioned valves guides, and a Brit twin, which I am interested in.

 

[overherebc]

16 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

The only thing for sure in the above, was that all the industry suffered  from antiquated clapped out tooling. That's what happens when your on the winning side in WW II....

Yeah, sure, some bikes vibrate more than others. But an A7? And badly? And worse than a quote "bad HD"? Nah, something amiss. Seriously amiss. 

Have you ever ridden a well set up Brit twin or single? ie something that is not stock from the factory, but been pulled apart, blueprinted and put together properly? Chalk and cheese.

Perhaps, if you have no love or appreciation for your vibrating Brit 500 twin, it's time to move it on. Maybe get something like a Z300 or CB500. I hear they are just as fast, if not faster, more reliable, have thumb instead of kick start, and, er, don't vibrate.

Sewing machines never do. Real motorcycles always will.

My 830cc Triumph runs a Weslake billet stroked crank, it was made for, and came out of a grass track sidecar racer, so, exceptionally heavy. Balance factor originally was probably round the 55-60%. Stock 650-750 unit Triumph twins like an 85% balance factor. My dynamic balance people could not get that factor, ( the steel Carillo rods didn't help), and had to finish up around the 74-75% region. To even get to that, heavy metal (tungsten) had to be added, see pic of the crankshaft assembly earlier this year...

This bike is pretty smooth (for an 830cc parallel twin), and does not vibrate badly at highway speeds, anywhere from 60-90 mph is relatively smooth and effortless. However, just off idle, around the 1500- 2250 rpm range, my eyeballs vibrate in my eye sockets, no word of a lie.

1. That's called the balance factor and where the vibes come in at what rpm, and how bad.

And

2. It's called Character. it's called Soul.

 

 

 

Oh, and an 81 CX650 Turbo.

Don't know what one is, what it looks like, nor am I remotely interested.

I read this thread because it mentioned valves guides, and a Brit twin, which I am interested in.

 

Bikes are bikes. Some people like/prefer different makes for different reasons.

Going on a two weeks tour to europe people wanted japanese bikes for sheer reliabilty and ease of finding local agents if needed. Couple of mates couldn't see past Guzzi. I liked their bikes, a V1000 sport and a California at one point but I still preferred my rice burner.

[VocalNeal]

6 hours ago, overherebc said:

Some people like/prefer different makes for different reasons.

 

Laverda Triple but new owned one.

[johng]

 

Can you rebore/hone a NSR 150 cylinder
and source oversize piston and rings ?

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, johng said:

Can you rebore/hone a NSR 150 cylinder
and source oversize piston and rings ?

Talk with your local honda agent. You can buy a barrel and piston kit. They can supply them.

[johng]

Upon further reading it seems the NSR barrel is "Nicasil" plated so would either need replating or if the scores are too deep a sleeve inserted and all the port holes machined and a performance hit due to higher clearences required with sleeve.

Think the cost of new barrel/piston kit would be more than the bike is worth
bought it for 8500 baht and spent about 3000 getting it running (sort of) again.
[emoji45]

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, johng said:

Upon further reading it seems the NSR barrel is "Nicasil" plated so would either need replating or if the scores are too deep a sleeve inserted and all the port holes machined and a performance hit due to higher clearences required with sleeve.

Think the cost of new barrel/piston kit would be more than the bike is worth
bought it for 8500 baht and spent about 3000 getting it running (sort of) again.

Take a look on google. The kits are not that expensive.

I'll check with my local shop tomorrow and see if they have a price.

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, johng said:

Upon further reading it seems the NSR barrel is "Nicasil" plated so would either need replating or if the scores are too deep a sleeve inserted and all the port holes machined and a performance hit due to higher clearences required with sleeve.

Think the cost of new barrel/piston kit would be more than the bike is worth
bought it for 8500 baht and spent about 3000 getting it running (sort of) again.

This is Thailand = buy a new barrel. They are available. Not heard of anyone over here who can replate a cylinder. Extremely specialist job, only a handful of companies in Europe offer the service. Don't even think of sleeving it with an iron liner (2 stroke). Perhaps as a last resort, maybe there is a lower spec model with all the same cylinder/piston dimensions but with a re- borable alloy cylinder with an iron sleeve. Dunno.

Off topic, re plating, anybody found a company in Thailand that can grind, hard chrome plate and regrind to size, fork stanchions. I've looked, as have other knowledgeable people for a couple of years now, to no avail, inc in BKK.

Must be somewhere, all those hydraulic rams on dump trucks and earth movers, bulldozers, excavators etc.

Last resort is a suitcase job back to the UK on the next visit.

 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

This is Thailand = buy a new barrel. They are available. Not heard of anyone over here who can replate a cylinder. Extremely specialist job, only a handful of companies in Europe offer the service. Don't even think of sleeving it with an iron liner (2 stroke). Perhaps as a last resort, maybe there is a lower spec model with all the same cylinder/piston dimensions but with a re- borable alloy cylinder with an iron sleeve. Dunno.

Off topic, re plating, anybody found a company in Thailand that can grind, hard chrome plate and regrind to size, fork stanchions. I've looked, as have other knowledgeable people for a couple of years now, to no avail, inc in BKK.

Must be somewhere, all those hydraulic rams on dump trucks and earth movers, bulldozers, excavators etc.

Last resort is a suitcase job back to the UK on the next visit.

 

Try Supreme Precision Maching, Omnoi?. Info I have is they can machine, send out for HC then machine again to tolerance.

Or Swiss Precision Maching I think have place in BKK.

Edited September 7, 2017 by overherebc

[MINIMIGLIA]

When I used to race TZ Yamahas with the same barrel finish, you measure the bore and buy the piston to fit, they were available in 1 thou increments after four new pistons they replaced with new barrels.

[VocalNeal]

11 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

This is Thailand = buy a new barrel

Yes. My NSR "300" has two 150 barrels. Stock 150 barrel is a normal Honda spare part from any dealer. 

[overherebc]

10 hours ago, overherebc said:

Try Supreme Precision Maching, Omnoi?. Info I have is they can machine, send out for HC then machine again to tolerance.

Or Swiss Precision Maching I think have place in BKK.

Read this morning and realised after 4 GT's I can't spell machining. ?

[johng]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

Yes. My NSR "300" has two 150 barrels. Stock 150 barrel is a normal Honda spare part from any dealer. 

Yes but the price ! 600 USD or almost 20,000 baht

there seems to be at least one place able to put sleeves in but still 5000 baht 

 

http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/Honda-NSR-150-SP-Proarm-RW-renew-cylinder-set-with-steel-barrel-/272688082613?hash=item3f7d79eeb5:g:57wAAOSwuMZZKCHv

[thaiguzzi]

12 hours ago, overherebc said:

Try Supreme Precision Maching, Omnoi?. Info I have is they can machine, send out for HC then machine again to tolerance.

Or Swiss Precision Maching I think have place in BKK.

Contact? Tel no? Address?

 Thanx.

[thaiguzzi]

58 minutes ago, johng said:

Yes but the price ! 600 USD or almost 20,000 baht

there seems to be at least one place able to put sleeves in but still 5000 baht 

 

http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/Honda-NSR-150-SP-Proarm-RW-renew-cylinder-set-with-steel-barrel-/272688082613?hash=item3f7d79eeb5:g:57wAAOSwuMZZKCHv

Quality is never cheap.

Edit,

just looked at the ad, sounds quite reasonable to me, try getting that done in the West for less than 200 quid.

Edited September 8, 2017 by thaiguzzi

[VocalNeal]

 

1 hour ago, johng said:

Yes but the price ! 600 USD or almost 20,000 baht

Where on earth did you get that price? Your local Thai Honda dealer? A set of barrels and pistons for my NSR is at least 20,000 Baht. That is for two cylinders, incl. CNC porting. Agreed it's been a while so maybe 25,000. 

What the man said quality is never cheap.

Edited September 8, 2017 by VocalNeal

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Contact? Tel no? Address?

 Thanx.

Supreme.

228/49  Moo6   Omnoi,

Kratumban 74130.

 

Swiss have their own website.

Only have theirs from Google 

 

.

 

Is all I have.

[overherebc]

15 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Supreme.

228/49  Moo6   Omnoi,

Kratumban 74130.

 

Swiss have their own website.

Only have theirs from Google 

 

.

 

Is all I have.

Maybe  Deat Engineering somewhere in Chonburi,

also on google.

[transam]

On 9/4/2017 at 10:32 AM, overherebc said:

Brit 500.

I can use one of the old valves to do the seats initially and then fit and seat the new valves.

I'm just worried about damage to the head on removal of the guides.

I know the theory, heat the head to around 150 C  and using the drifter knock out the old guides. Reheat the head, put the new guides in the freezer the using the proper drift bar knock the new ones in.

Just never actually done it.

Yep, I have done that a few times, but the best way is to use a press, you can push them out and press the new ones in accurately..Just need to find a shop with a press..

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Yep, I have done that a few times, but the best way is to use a press, you can push them out and press the new ones in accurately..Just need to find a shop with a press..

Have a shop nearby with a press but I would have to hang over them while they were doing it. Being an alloy finned head I don't fancy new guides in and 6 broken fins to braze back on afterwards. ??

[transam]

5 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Have a shop nearby with a press but I would have to hang over them while they were doing it. Being an alloy finned head I don't fancy new guides in and 6 broken fins to braze back on afterwards. ??

The beauty of a press is there is no whacking involved, really easy and no transmitted  shock stress, just takes a little time to "tool up" with what ever is handy..

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

The beauty of a press is there is no whacking involved, really easy and no transmitted  shock stress, just takes a little time to "tool up" with what ever is handy..

Have also read that careful drilling of the guide can help by thinning the guide walls but don't really feel it's required.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Have also read that careful drilling of the guide can help by thinning the guide walls but don't really feel it's required.

My fun ride had cast iron heads with no guides, valve just used the cast. Got a shop to drill the old valve runs and press in bronze guides which were reamed to the correct measurement...

[thaiguzzi]

8 hours ago, transam said:

My fun ride had cast iron heads with no guides, valve just used the cast. Got a shop to drill the old valve runs and press in bronze guides which were reamed to the correct measurement...

What are you on about?

[thaiguzzi]

9 hours ago, transam said:

Yep, I have done that a few times, but the best way is to use a press, you can push them out and press the new ones in accurately..Just need to find a shop with a press..

Maybe a press on a car head with the guides at 90 degrees to a gasket face. Yeah, not difficult.

Tried that on a Brit, European, HD bike with the valves at 45 degrees?

Make yourself an ACCURATE jig first, and nobody has or does....

[thaiguzzi]

9 hours ago, overherebc said:

Maybe  Deat Engineering somewhere in Chonburi,

also on google.

Thanx on both contacts, will check it out.

[thaiguzzi]

9 hours ago, overherebc said:

Have a shop nearby with a press but I would have to hang over them while they were doing it. Being an alloy finned head I don't fancy new guides in and 6 broken fins to braze back on afterwards. ??

For F##k's sake. I can't bear it anymore, The guff and <deleted> on this thread. Just f##king pm me, send the f##king thing to me and i'll sort it out. Jesus <deleted>##king wept!