Trump - 'Sad day' for North Korea if U.S. takes military action

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Well, for one I don't expect them to accept your more-people-die-in-car-accidents style approach or to market it to the populace. Further, I do not condemn them for any measures taken, whether or not these involve their alliance with the US. If one adopts your stance - is there a red line? Or should countries in the region just accept it as norm?

 

As for testing armed missile systems, it is not a matter of where. Pretty much all such projects follow similar steps. And at one point or another, there's a live test. Most countries conducting one attempt to do so without the missile passing over other countries, with impact point being either in international waters or within their maritime borders/on their soil. On some occasions, such testing can be conducted in a foreign country, with that country's cooperation.

 

 

 

 

Who knows what the Japanese populace wants or what marketing it requires?  Or what they are willing to put up with. Do you? They've been very pacifistic in the past in the face of provocations that would have the majority of Americans into a rage.

 

But armed testing doesn't require that a missile be tested over another nation.

[Scott]

Off-topic personal remarks removed.

 

If you wish to converse privately with a member, please use the PM function.  

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

No high probability at all. The above is an outdated link. However should one choose to read it, the reader will find mention of The Lazarus Group. From June 2, 2017:

https://phys.org/news/2017-06-north-korea-cyberattacks-lazarus.html

 

Two conclusions out of 4 said they are related to North Korea. Nice link. Thanks!

[baboon]

12 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Two conclusions out of 4 said they are related to North Korea. Nice link. Thanks!

"Its claim that North Korea was to blame has since been widely disputed." No high probability at all. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by baboon

[Guest]

What people want is really what people want. It's that simple. 

[Guest]

What I want is to stop the abuse by the Cambodian, Thai, Myanmar and US leaders, who have abused their 'commoners' aka useful fools, for years. 

Why can't we stop this stupid abuse by the powers, we didn't elect? 

 

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Who knows what the Japanese populace wants or what marketing it requires?  Or what they are willing to put up with. Do you? They've been very pacifistic in the past in the face of provocations that would have the majority of Americans into a rage.

 

But armed testing doesn't require that a missile be tested over another nation.

 

Another nothing post.

 

Again. The argument that statistically the danger level is low is not applicable. It would have been, perhaps, if it was an action taken by Japan's government, or by agreement with an allied country. A hostile country taking such action is an altogether different proposition. And no, I don't think the Japanese are particularly thrilled about this, or that there were that many provocation going this far.

 

I've no idea what you're on about with your last comment. It wasn't claimed that this is a requirement, even quite the opposite was inferred. To make it even clearer, it is not generally acceptable to conduct any such tests, whether live or otherwise, over other countries (or within their territorial water/airspace) without their consent. So North Korea already went ahead anyway, no particular reason to assume it wouldn't continue.  

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MaxYakov said:

I place the entire blame on Ludwig and I hope they do also. 

I see, you got your wish through and my reply was washed away due your report. This should make you merits of the final idea of separating western folks from each others. 

Well, guess what. I still have a huge respect of the western ideology and I guess they feel the same. We can fight with each other, which is to improve each others thoughts and ideas. 

That's simply how we operate. Together. That's also why the western ideology has always been so much stronger than the eastern one. It's we versus me. 

With the current Russian 'Me' presidents things are not going well forward.

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

"Its claim that North Korea was to blame has since been widely disputed." No high probability at all. 

Jeez. From your link.

 

Quote

 

Scott said any connections between Lazarus and North Korea remain unclear, but four possibilities exist:

— Lazarus is affiliated with North Korea;

— it is an independent side operation of persons affiliated with North Korea;

— it is entirely independent of North Korea;

— it is a cyber-mercenary collective that occasionally works on behalf of North Korea.

 

 

I was wrong. 3 out of 4 conclusions point to North Korea. LOL

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Another nothing post.

 

Again. The argument that statistically the danger level is low is not applicable. It would have been, perhaps, if it was an action taken by Japan's government, or by agreement with an allied country. A hostile country taking such action is an altogether different proposition. And no, I don't think the Japanese are particularly thrilled about this, or that there were that many provocation going this far.

 

I've no idea what you're on about with your last comment. It wasn't claimed that this is a requirement, even quite the opposite was inferred. To make it even clearer, it is not generally acceptable to conduct any such tests, whether live or otherwise, over other countries (or within their territorial water/airspace) without their consent. So North Korea already went ahead anyway, no particular reason to assume it wouldn't continue.  

 

 

I have no doubt that the Japanese aren't thrilled about this. I doubt that they have been thrilled with the bellicose posturing of Donald Trump either. But the question is not how do they feel about this overflight, but what do they want done about it? This is a nation that has a very special experience of nuclear weapons and that might possibly, just possibly, exert a strongly inhibitory effect on them.

 

And as for it not being acceptable. It is certainly wrong and almost certainly a violation of international law, but it may be something that the Japanese are willing to put up with if the other options are, to their way of thinking, worse. I don't know the answer to that one. You seem to believe that you do.

Edited September 9, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[baboon]

40 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Jeez. From your link.

 

 

I was wrong. 3 out of 4 conclusions point to North Korea. LOL

 

Categorical statement. Which when contradicted then becomes a high probability. Which when contradicted again becomes 2 out of four opinions, then a desperately upbeat 3 out of 4 based on the opinion of a single individual. 

I only ask the reader to revisit the links posted and form his or her opinion independently. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by baboon

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

But the question is not how do they feel about this overflight, but what do they want done about it?

Why don't you research this first before posting? Lot's of articles out there saying how they feel and what they want to do about it. Few of them blame Trump.  LOL

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, baboon said:

I only ask the reader to revisit the links posted and form his or her opinion independently. 

That's not what you originally posted. It was this.

Quote

"Its claim that North Korea was to blame has since been widely disputed." No high probability at all.

You are trying to state facts that aren't totally supported by the article.

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

That's not what you originally posted. It was this.

You are trying to state facts that aren't totally supported by the article.

Categorical statement. Which when contradicted then becomes a high probability. Which when contradicted again becomes 2 out of four opinions, then a desperately upbeat 3 out of 4 based on the opinion of a single individual. 

I only ask the reader to revisit the links posted and form his or her opinion independently.

[ilostmypassword]

41 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Why don't you research this first before posting? Lot's of articles out there saying how they feel and what they want to do about it. Few of them blame Trump.  LOL

You're confused. I wasn't referring to the feelings of Japanese citizens. I was referring to what measures they would support to deal with the situation. And I haven't seen any articles subsequent to the missile attack that deal with this as far as measuriing public opinion. I did see one from DW that interviewed a few angry citizens. But even they didn't propose what would be decisive measures. More like ramping up what's currently being done or increasing the threat of retaliation without actually retaliating.

But perhaps you can provide links to these articles. I'm sure you wouldn't just assume they existed and make an assertion on that basis.

[billd766]

20 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Agreed. Most would like Trump and Kim to calm down. But place blame properly. Trump didn't start this. Kim did.

 

Don't forget all 15 members of the United nations security council voted for the last round of sanctions.

 

Many presidents have visited war zones and seen the destruction caused. Many. Your comment is off the mark.

 

There is no solution as long as Kim is in power. Trump isn't a dictator like Kim. Lots of checks and balances in place.

 

Can you name 3 presidents, the war zones that they visited and when please?

 

I am quite happy to be proven wrong and happy enough to apologise.

[craigt3365]

27 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Can you name 3 presidents, the war zones that they visited and when please?

 

I am quite happy to be proven wrong and happy enough to apologise.

https://undertheradar.military.com/2016/07/27-times-the-commander-in-chief-visited-a-combat-zone/

[shanesox]

Yup


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Morch]

11 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I have no doubt that the Japanese aren't thrilled about this. I doubt that they have been thrilled with the bellicose posturing of Donald Trump either. But the question is not how do they feel about this overflight, but what do they want done about it? This is a nation that has a very special experience of nuclear weapons and that might possibly, just possibly, exert a strongly inhibitory effect on them.

 

And as for it not being acceptable. It is certainly wrong and almost certainly a violation of international law, but it may be something that the Japanese are willing to put up with if the other options are, to their way of thinking, worse. I don't know the answer to that one. You seem to believe that you do.

 

I wasn't suggesting that I have a clear answer, just challenging the one you offered. Japan isn't an ant colony, nor are its citizens kept in the dark the way North Koreans are. Obviously, there would be various takes, points of view and feelings with regard to events and outcomes. Note that the one engaging in wide brush generalizations of attitudes is yourself.

 

My point, if it wasn't clear, was that IMO, the nonchalant inputs on the statistical likelihood of getting hurt should a missile test go wrong have little to do with how people facing such situations perceive them. Such views are more often aired by those not facing the situation themselves.

[billd766]

15 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

https://undertheradar.military.com/2016/07/27-times-the-commander-in-chief-visited-a-combat-zone/

 

Thank you for that link Craig.

 

The one thing that was consistent in all those photos is that they were taken at US bases and not anywhere near the actual combat zones where the "collateral damage" and civilian deaths actually occurred. Where the POTUS of the day was surrounded by his own security staff and hundreds or thousands of US troops.

 

Radio, TV and press reporters gat far closer to the front lines and actions than prersidents do and far more of them are killed whilst doing it.

 

Take any incident in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen or elsewhere in the world etc and look hard for presidents and national leaders etc. You won't see any but if you look at the news reports you WILL see lots of "collateral damage" and both live and dead bodies around.

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

You're confused. I wasn't referring to the feelings of Japanese citizens. I was referring to what measures they would support to deal with the situation. And I haven't seen any articles subsequent to the missile attack that deal with this as far as measuriing public opinion. I did see one from DW that interviewed a few angry citizens. But even they didn't propose what would be decisive measures. More like ramping up what's currently being done or increasing the threat of retaliation without actually retaliating.

But perhaps you can provide links to these articles. I'm sure you wouldn't just assume they existed and make an assertion on that basis.

I'm  not confused. A 20 second Google search turned up this. One of dozens of articles out there.

https://www.upi.com/Shinzo-Abe-vows-to-defend-Japan-against-North-Korea-threats/4031491933903/

A recent survey of 1,233 Japanese respondents indicates 36 percent see a need to "review the self-defense force's strike capabilities against the enemy," according to the report.

 

[craigt3365]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

Thank you for that link Craig.

 

The one thing that was consistent in all those photos is that they were taken at US bases and not anywhere near the actual combat zones where the "collateral damage" and civilian deaths actually occurred. Where the POTUS of the day was surrounded by his own security staff and hundreds or thousands of US troops.

 

Radio, TV and press reporters gat far closer to the front lines and actions than prersidents do and far more of them are killed whilst doing it.

 

Take any incident in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen or elsewhere in the world etc and look hard for presidents and national leaders etc. You won't see any but if you look at the news reports you WILL see lots of "collateral damage" and both live and dead bodies around.

Guaranteed these guys have seen the devastation. They have their own reporters that document the war. It's not publicly available. And they also watch tv. LOL

[midas]

17 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Well, NK isn't in a grand economic shape as well and it doesn't seem to bother Kim much, judging from rhetoric and actions. If the US will have to go to war it will go to war, hurricanes or no hurricanes. Still doesn't have much to do with the quoted post, so no idea why directed at me.

 

Major war how? It's not as if the US will turn all it's military resources to NK if it comes to fighting. Considering there isn't much discussion of ground troops, guess they think they can make do with what's already deployed plus long range means.

 

 

" Major war how? "

 

Quote

China has also told administration officials that if the U.S. strikes North Korea first, Beijing would back Pyongyang, a senior military official said.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/trump-team-prepping-aggressive-options-north-korea-n799306

[Morch]

2 hours ago, midas said:

" Major war how? "

 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/trump-team-prepping-aggressive-options-north-korea-n799306

 

A rather ambiguous statement. It doesn't say anything about the PRC committed to entering a war against the US. Very little to be gained. Again, if considering NK alone, then no - it's not a major war in the sense that all of the US might will be brought to bear. There isn't a good argument for the PRC jumping into the fray, just scaremongering.

 

 

[midas]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

A rather ambiguous statement. It doesn't say anything about the PRC committed to entering a war against the US. Very little to be gained. Again, if considering NK alone, then no - it's not a major war in the sense that all of the US might will be brought to bear. There isn't a good argument for the PRC jumping into the fray, just scaremongering.

 

 

 

You have no greater insight that anyone else on this forum as to  how all this could end up so stop pretending you do.Or at least if you are proved wrong at the end of the day allow me to come and share your bunker

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/25/doomsday-prepper-making-millions-selling-bomb-shelters-for-trump-era.html

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, midas said:

 

You have no greater insight that anyone else on this forum as to  how all this could end up so stop pretending you do.Or at least if you are proved wrong at the end of the day allow me to come and share your bunker

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/25/doomsday-prepper-making-millions-selling-bomb-shelters-for-trump-era.html

 

I'm  not claiming a better insight. Just not into conspiracy theories or loosely connected ramblings based on nothing much than hatred toward this state or the other.

 

You've made a series of claims and statements, most not directly connected to the topic, and most not very credible. On each instant when these are challenged, you jump to another snippet and so on.

 

And you got confused again. You're the one going on about doomsday scenarios. Me, not so much. Hence, no bunker.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed as well as a reply.

[IvanLaw]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 1:39 AM, craigt3365 said:

This ain't Vietnam. A terrible war started by another country, not the US.

Realis it is not Vietnam, But I think you will find US where involved & expected a swift resolution But a lot of people died. If  US  takes action, more deaths &  Nuclear weapons may be involved.

 

[balo]

Trump meant to say it will be a sad day for planet earth.