"Lips and teeth" no more as China's ties with North Korea fray

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"Lips and teeth" no more as China's ties with North Korea fray

By Philip Wen and Christian Shepherd

 

FILE PHOTO: Flags of China and North Korea are seen outside the closed Ryugyong Korean Restaurant in Ningbo, Zhejiang province, China, in this April 12, 2016 file photo. REUTERS/Joseph Campbell/File Photo

 

BEIJING (Reuters) - When Kim Jong Un inherited power in North Korea in late 2011, then-Chinese president Hu Jintao was outwardly supportive of the untested young leader, predicting that "traditional friendly cooperation" between the countries would strengthen.

 

Two years later, Kim ordered the execution of his uncle Jang Song Thaek, the country's chief interlocutor with China and a relatively reform-minded official in the hermetic state.

 

Since then, ties between the allies have deteriorated so sharply that some diplomats and experts fear Beijing may become, like Washington, a target of its neighbour's ire.

 

While the United States and its allies - and many people in China - believe Beijing should do more to rein in Pyongyang, the acceleration of North Korea's nuclear and missile capabilities has coincided with a near-total breakdown of high-level diplomacy between the two.

 

Before retiring this summer, China's long-time point man on North Korea, Wu Dawei, had not visited the country for over a year. His replacement, Kong Xuanyou, has yet to visit and is still carrying out duties from his previous Asian role, travelling to Pakistan in mid-August, diplomats say.

 

The notion that mighty China wields diplomatic control over impoverished North Korea is mistaken, said Jin Canrong, an international relations professor at Beijing's Renmin University.

 

"There has never existed a subordinate relationship between the two sides. Never. Especially after the end of the Cold War, the North Koreans fell into a difficult situation and could not get enough help from China, so they determined to help themselves."

 

A famine in the mid-1990s that claimed anywhere from 200,000 to three million North Koreans was a turning point for the economy, forcing private trade on the collectivized state. That allowed the North a degree of independence from outside aid and gave credence to the official "Juche" ideology of self-reliance.

 

AVOID CHAOS

 

China fought alongside North Korea during the 1950-53 Korean War, in which Chinese leader Mao Zedong lost his eldest son, and Beijing has long been Pyongyang's chief ally and primary trade partner.

 

While their relationship has always been clouded by suspicion and mistrust, China grudgingly tolerated North Korea's provocations as preferable to the alternatives: chaotic collapse that spills across their border, and a Korean peninsula under the domain of a U.S.-backed Seoul government.

 

That is also the reason China is reluctant to exert its considerable economic clout, worried that measures as drastic as the energy embargo proposed this week by Washington could lead to the North's collapse.

 

Instead, China repeatedly calls for calm, restraint and a negotiated solution.

 

The North Korean government does not provide foreign media with a contact point in Pyongyang for comment by email, fax or phone. The North Korean embassy in Beijing was not immediately available for comment.

 

China's foreign ministry did not respond to a faxed request for comment. It has repeatedly spoken out against what it calls the "China responsibility theory" and insists the direct parties - North Korea, South Korea and the United States - hold the key to resolving tensions.

 

'FEUDAL AGES'

 

Until his death in 2011, North Korean leader Kim Jong Il made numerous entreaties to ensure China would back his preferred son as successor.

 

While then-President Hu reciprocated, the younger Kim, in his late 20s at the time, began to distance himself from his country's most powerful ally.

 

"There's a lot of domestic politics in North Korea where this young leader who isn't well-known, he's not proven yet, especially has to show that he's not in the pocket of Beijing," said John Delury of Seoul's Yonsei University. "I think he made the decision first to keep Hu Jintao and then (current President) Xi Jinping really at bay."

 

Within months of coming to power, Kim telegraphed North Korea's intentions by amending its constitution to proclaim itself a nuclear state. The execution of Jang's uncle in 2013 sealed Beijing's distrust of the young leader.

 

"Of course the Chinese were not happy," said a foreign diplomat in Beijing focused on North Korea. "Executing your uncle, that's from the feudal ages."

 

In an attempt to warm ties, Xi sent high-ranking Communist Party official Liu Yunshan to attend the North's October 2015 military parade marking the 70th anniversary of the founding of the Workers' Party of Korea.

 

Liu hand-delivered a letter from Xi praising Kim's leadership and including congratulations not just from the Chinese Communist Party but Xi's personal "cordial wishes" in a powerful show of respect.

 

Xi's overture has been repaid with increasingly brazen actions by Pyongyang, which many observers believe are timed for maximum embarrassment to Beijing. Sunday's nuclear test, for example, took place as China hosted a BRICS summit, while in May, the North launched a long-range missile just hours before the Belt and Road Forum, dedicated to Xi's signature foreign policy initiative.

 

MISREADING LIPS

 

Mao Zedong's description of North Korea's relationship with China is typically mischaracterised as being as close as "lips and teeth".

 

His words are better translated as: "If the lips are gone, the teeth will be cold," a reference to the strategic importance of the North as a geographical security buffer.

 

Despite its resentment at the pressure North Korea's actions have put it under, Beijing refrains from taking too hard a line.

 

It said little when Kim Jong Un's half-brother was assassinated in February at Kuala Lumpur's airport. The half-brother, Kim Jong Nam, had been seen as a potential rival for power in Pyongyang and had lived for years in Beijing, then Macau.

 

An editorial in China's influential Global Times warned after Pyongyang's latest nuclear test that cutting off North Korea's oil would redirect the conflict to one between North Korea and China.

 

Zhao Tong, a North Korea expert at the Carnegie-Tsinghua Center in Beijing, said North Korea was deeply unhappy with China's backing of earlier UN sanctions.

 

"If China supports more radical economic sanctions that directly threaten the stability of the regime, then it is possible that North Korea becomes as hostile to China as to the United States."

 

(Reporting by Philip Wen and Christian Shepherd; Editing by Tony Munroe and Lincoln Feast)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-09-08

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

Meanwhile, in Thailand:

 

Escalating geopolitical tensions in the Korea Peninsula should be a boon to local tourism, as it will increase the number of South Korean tourists and shift Chinese travellers toward Thailand, says Tourism and Sports Minister Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul.

 

The number of visitors from South Korea increased from 134,310 in July 2016 to 152,515 in July this year -- a 13.6% rise.

Edited September 8, 2017 by ExpatOilWorker

[YetAnother]

25 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Meanwhile, in Thailand:

 

Escalating geopolitical tensions in the Korea Peninsula should be a boon to local tourism, as it will increase the number of South Korean tourists and shift Chinese travellers toward Thailand, says Tourism and Sports Minister Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul.

 

The number of visitors from South Korea increased from 134,310 in July 2016 to 152,515 in July this year -- a 13.6% rise.

sounds to me like a Lot of people in seoul should move here; even if , in the extreme, a china:NK conflict breaks out , i believe the NK fixed  assets that are trained on seoul would still be let loose

Edited September 8, 2017 by YetAnother

[piersbeckett]

Russia conspicuous by its absence in the piece; one wonders if their bonds will be strengthened by this indication of the loosening of ties between China and N.Korea.

[Monomial]

People often forget that Russia, like China, shares a border with North Korea. For Chinese help to mean anything, it also requires the agreement of Russia. And all 3 powers, Russia, China and the US, pretty much despise each other. It isn't at all clear that the Chinese acting alone can remove Kin. The US is going to need to make some very painful concessions if it really wants this guy out. If I were Putin, Kim would be my best buddy until both China and the US rolled over.

[JHolmesJr]

Kim is the perfect distraction to keep the US entangled for decades….doubt china or russia want this resolved apart from the usual BS lip service.

[craigt3365]

16 hours ago, piersbeckett said:

Russia conspicuous by its absence in the piece; one wonders if their bonds will be strengthened by this indication of the loosening of ties between China and N.Korea.

Trade with North Korea is up 70% this year for Russia.

[FitnessHealthTravel]

It's always about the US wanting to rule the world. They are enemies and they don't want their enemies to be strong. This enemy is not budging and is now strong as a result of the US inaction from previous administrations. The US always make the bed, they just don't like sleeping in it. No Country in this region or close by will benefit from conflict and the US knows that. Thailand's tourism industry will rapidly decline in the wake of any Military conflict. It's not as easy as rolling up and taking out a leader as they have found with Syria. Everything the US starts or gets involved in destabilizes regions for decades. This can't be forgotten. The USA is a circus, read the news, look at what is happening there. They need to clean up their own backyard before they come half way around the world again and rattle their sabres.

[JHolmesJr]

41 minutes ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

It's always about the US wanting to rule the world. They are enemies and they don't want their enemies to be strong. This enemy is not budging and is now strong as a result of the US inaction from previous administrations. The US always make the bed, they just don't like sleeping in it. No Country in this region or close by will benefit from conflict and the US knows that. Thailand's tourism industry will rapidly decline in the wake of any Military conflict. It's not as easy as rolling up and taking out a leader as they have found with Syria. Everything the US starts or gets involved in destabilizes regions for decades. This can't be forgotten. The USA is a circus, read the news, look at what is happening there. They need to clean up their own backyard before they come half way around the world again and rattle their sabres.

 

 

natural thought process for someone living in china….carry on.

[Tchooptip]

38 minutes ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

It's always about the US wanting to rule the world. They are enemies and they don't want their enemies to be strong. This enemy is not budging and is now strong as a result of the US inaction from previous administrations. The US always make the bed, they just don't like sleeping in it. No Country in this region or close by will benefit from conflict and the US knows that. Thailand's tourism industry will rapidly decline in the wake of any Military conflict. It's not as easy as rolling up and taking out a leader as they have found with Syria. Everything the US starts or gets involved in destabilizes regions for decades. This can't be forgotten. The USA is a circus, read the news, look at what is happening there. They need to clean up their own backyard before they come half way around the world again and rattle their sabres.

You are not on the way to make a lot of friends on TV 

[champers]

Direct action from the Chinese; removing Kim by force and occupying N Korea; is looking like a more and more viable option.

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

Contrary to popular belief most Chinese don't think this way.  Truth is they don't give a rat's toot about geopolitics, they are just getting on with making money.  e.g. if you ask them what they know about Australia they will reply, "clean air, clean water, very lonely."  If you ask them what they know about America they will say, " big money, big guns, big mouth."

I call BS.... if you ask them about Australia, they say "kangaroos and koala bears"

[baboon]

1 hour ago, champers said:

Direct action from the Chinese; removing Kim by force and occupying N Korea; is looking like a more and more viable option.

Then the neocons will decide to take a dislike to that as well and search for another pretext for armed conflict. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by baboon

[craigt3365]

3 hours ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

It's always about the US wanting to rule the world. They are enemies and they don't want their enemies to be strong. This enemy is not budging and is now strong as a result of the US inaction from previous administrations. The US always make the bed, they just don't like sleeping in it. No Country in this region or close by will benefit from conflict and the US knows that. Thailand's tourism industry will rapidly decline in the wake of any Military conflict. It's not as easy as rolling up and taking out a leader as they have found with Syria. Everything the US starts or gets involved in destabilizes regions for decades. This can't be forgotten. The USA is a circus, read the news, look at what is happening there. They need to clean up their own backyard before they come half way around the world again and rattle their sabres.

Your comments make sense if all you read is news in the Chinese media. In reality,  you are way off the mark. Bizarre rant.

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, car720 said:

  If you ask them what they know about America they will say, " big money, big guns, big mouth."

Followed by "can you help me get a visa"? LOL

[Morch]

5 hours ago, champers said:

Direct action from the Chinese; removing Kim by force and occupying N Korea; is looking like a more and more viable option.

 

It may look like a viable option for some, doubt that the PRC leadership sees it quite this way. 

Other than the obvious reluctance to get stuck in and then bogged down, there could also be some major consequences if Kim decides to go down guns blazing. Then there are all them North Koreans to feed, and/or block from entering the PRC.

 

On top of that, such a move would damage the PRC's narrative of depicting the US as an aggressive, interventionist country.

 

If, and that's some if, the PRC will feel pressed to affect a regime change, it will most probably be through supporting a potential rival and mounting a coup.

[dunroaming]

I think this is a disturbing development.  Kim's dad was very much in the pocket of the Chinese administration but Kim Jong Un is becoming much more of a maverick.  If China really cannot rein him in then negotiating with the lunatic is going to be very tough indeed.  On the other side it would be less likely that China will object too much if someone took out Kim and his close friends quietly.

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 hours ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

It's always about the US wanting to rule the world. They are enemies and they don't want their enemies to be strong. This enemy is not budging and is now strong as a result of the US inaction from previous administrations. The US always make the bed, they just don't like sleeping in it. No Country in this region or close by will benefit from conflict and the US knows that. Thailand's tourism industry will rapidly decline in the wake of any Military conflict. It's not as easy as rolling up and taking out a leader as they have found with Syria. Everything the US starts or gets involved in destabilizes regions for decades. This can't be forgotten. The USA is a circus, read the news, look at what is happening there. They need to clean up their own backyard before they come half way around the world again and rattle their sabres.

Lets throw the key over to Putin or Mr. Jingpingpong and let them run the world. In a few decades we will all light a candle for the freedom we lost and remember the good old days when we could speak openly, like you just did.

[IAMHERE]

7 hours ago, car720 said:

Contrary to popular belief most Chinese don't think this way.  Truth is they don't give a rat's toot about geopolitics, they are just getting on with making money.  e.g. if you ask them what they know about Australia they will reply, "clean air, clean water, very lonely."  If you ask them what they know about America they will say, " big money, big guns, big mouth."

Fair enough; ask most any American about China and they'll say Panda bears or Chow mein noodles or my job was outsourced there.

[baboon]

25 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Fair enough; ask most any American about China and they'll say Panda bears or Chow mein noodles or my job was outsourced there.

That one gets my nomination for comeback of the week. Ouch!

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Lets throw the key over to Putin or Mr. Jingpingpong and let them run the world. In a few decades we will all light a candle for the freedom we lost and remember the good old days when we could speak openly, like you just did.

Or lets have a proper President in the USA and restore some balance.  Having a clown like Trump does the whole world a disservice. 

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Or lets have a proper President in the USA and restore some balance.  Having a clown like Trump does the whole world a disservice. 

 

Indeed. But considering some talk a lot about Russia, and more so, the PRC, as superpowers - how about raising the level of expectations some? Chalking it all on the US tab gets old.

[hawker9000]

19 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

You are not on the way to make a lot of friends on TV 

... or even scoring a double-digit IQ.  'Doesn't take that many active brain cells to parrot a party line.

Edited September 10, 2017 by hawker9000

[Stargeezr]

Yes, with Russia having no trade with many countries, I can see how they are still

supporting North Korea, after all Putin is probably the Fat boys hero and Putin likes Fat by as well.\

China on the other hand  has their own agenda of getting more powerful and does not fear that

NK will send any missles their way.

  Geezer

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Yes, with Russia having no trade with many countries, I can see how they are still

supporting North Korea, after all Putin is probably the Fat boys hero and Putin likes Fat by as well.\

China on the other hand  has their own agenda of getting more powerful and does not fear that

NK will send any missles their way.

  Geezer

That will have something to do with China not threatening to attack them and staging wargames on their border to that end.

[ilostmypassword]

21 hours ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

It's always about the US wanting to rule the world. They are enemies and they don't want their enemies to be strong. This enemy is not budging and is now strong as a result of the US inaction from previous administrations. The US always make the bed, they just don't like sleeping in it. No Country in this region or close by will benefit from conflict and the US knows that. Thailand's tourism industry will rapidly decline in the wake of any Military conflict. It's not as easy as rolling up and taking out a leader as they have found with Syria. Everything the US starts or gets involved in destabilizes regions for decades. This can't be forgotten. The USA is a circus, read the news, look at what is happening there. They need to clean up their own backyard before they come half way around the world again and rattle their sabres.

Let me get this straight. The reason North Korea is now in this position is because the US did nothing to stop them. And this is somehow reconcilable with the statement that "It's always about the US wanting to rule the world."  How does that work?

[Stargeezr]

Actually sice NK and SK have not ended their last war, then NK sends missles over the

island of Japan, is that not like a war like declaration?  Too bad one of the missles did not go

off path and start heading north.

Just wondering.

[Stargeezr]

Are FHT and BBN moles who actually live in the former USSR and try to stir

up trouble on this and other forums, just curious.

Geezer

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Are FHT and BBN moles who actually live in the former USSR and try to stir

up trouble on this and other forums, just curious.

Geezer

I can only speak for myself. No, I actually live in Thailand unlike others who do not yet speak as though they have an encyclopedic knowledge of the place.

[craigt3365]

23 minutes ago, baboon said:

That will have something to do with China not threatening to attack them and staging wargames on their border to that end.

More like something to do with the fact China saved them from being wiped off the face of the earth after they invaded South Korea and killed millions.