Bringing up children in Thailand or UK? Safety?

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7 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

" The UK has really gone downhill "

To be frank that is nonsense , its the sort of thing usually muttered by down at heel expats desperately seeking justification for their life choices.

Oh, right. I was living in Switzerland for 40 years before I  came here. I live modestly but am not down at heel, thanks.

I visited the UK, especially Leicester, about every two years during most of that time. I used to love the place, I no longer wish to visit it again.

Some of the villages I used to like are still nice, most of the big towns have gone to hell.

Comments like yours are the sort of thing usually uttered by expats that haven't noticed what has happened to their country.because they were living there.

[Bob12345]

As lots of people comment on the educational part anyways, let me give a bit of a different view on that.

 

My wife is a medical specialist meaning she did 6 years of medical school followed by 3 years of specialization. That means she spend the last 9-12 years of her life surrounded by doctors and nurses and almost all of them came out of the "normal" educational system in Thailand (no private schools). A couple of her friends recently moved to the US & Canada for further specialization, some of them are surgeons, and one just finished his PhD in moleculer medical treatments at a famous US university. 

 

All I want to say is that while the odds might not be that good, the Thai education does produce some good and hardworking people every now and than.

It is not all doom and gloom out there.

 

What you will see is that you mingle with lower educated people you will mostly meet other lower educated people and the way you see the educational system in Thailand goes down fast.

If you live in Nakhon Nowhere do not expect to walk into some Thai brainsurgeons or rocket engineers. That does not mean the educational system is the worst possible, it means you mingle with the wrong crowd.

 

(that said, the system is worse than western systems and your odds will be better in the UK education wise)

[Jimmyjames120]

A lot of really great replies here gentlemen, a lot of valid points in both directions, keep them coming. 

 

As a general reply to some, my situation is: Safe security gated moo baan, my children never leave my sight, International school in Chiang Mai where I do the school run myself and will do until they finish school or can drive themselves, Luckily financially ok to move to UK if that's what I decide.

 

 

[Jimmyjames120]

10 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Firstly Education - the subject can't be avoided....  IF kids are in a decent International School OK - If not, get them educated back home. 

 

On the subject of Safety: It's a major concern of mine. 

We pretty much drive everywhere in Bangkok, or Drive to the Mall, park at the Mall and use the BTS.

Walking anywhere is just too dangerous, motorcycles on pavements, food-carts with boiling oil etc... we only walk within a very close proximity. That said, my Wife or I walk my son to school which is <500m.

Safety around the home is another concern: We live in a large condo with a large kids play area on the ground level, lots of kids, fun etc.. but our son (and all the other kids) are supervised (of course he is at 3 yrs old). There are also lots of 'soft-play' ares in Bangkok such as kidzoona etc... we go there a lot, and of course swimming... But always our son is supervised...

... issues such as electricity, grounding etc... hot food being carried over our childs heads in restaurants (pet hate) etc... but, we are more vigilant here than I perhaps would be in the UK - because of this, perhaps my son is at less risk....??...

 

The real aspect of safety will strike home as our son approaches teens and he will want to go to areas without supervision etc... the issue is the same in any city. The concerns are not yet sufficient to move home and I compare Education / safety etc in balance with what my nephews of the same age are exposed to....  

Your pet hate.....yep me too....absolutely drives me nuts when they do that, they just seem to have no awareness

[calbear09]

Curious of the age of the fathers with young children on here. Did all start families in retirement years or are there young lads here as well?

[brewsterbudgen]

Curious of the age of the fathers with young children on here. Did all start families in retirement years or are there young lads here as well?

I would think the majority are in their 30s. I was 55, so not in my retirement years, but probably older than the majority.

[Bob12345]

Curious of the age of the fathers with young children on here. Did all start families in retirement years or are there young lads here as well?

Halfway 30 here.
Kids didnt reach 1 yet.

[khunPer]

What to be concerned about in safety matters, I think depends of where you live in Thailand. I have a half-Thai child also, a 12-years old daughter, and I'm not concerned about safety – other than traffic, which is both chaotic and often fatal; i.e. second most traffic fatal country in the World. However traffic may be of concern where I live, at Koh Samui, more than other dangers.

 

I'm from Denmark, which is quite different from Britain, and also not that different. I should be less worried about traffic dangers if living in Denmark, but with all the changes and evolution during the last two decades – I've been away almost one-and-a-half – I fell generally it's more safe in Thailand than Denmark; from what my friends tells me; from what I read in the news; and my own feeling when visiting my home-country.

 

I think it's a question of information, and learning the kids what to be aware of. Small children, like a five year old, and a 20-moth old baby, need to be observed and taken care of, in accordance to local safety threads, but just a few years older the child can begin to understand safety-issues when explained, and why care should be takes for this-and-that.

 

But both area and community, and friends, and school – and many other different issues – can be part of safety matters, and if one shall worry or not. I have a daughter heading for teenage, and that brings up other "safety matters" than for small children; but I believe in education and information, honesty and understanding, so I'm not worried. Even my daughter's EP-school, with a wide variety of mixed children, I feel is better than a Danish public school – yes, we pay a (relative) modest fee, compared to a free school – but if my daughter should attend a rural village school instead, I might think different. I'm afraid that I today would be more afraid living with a teenage daughter back in Denmark...

 

Me and my daughter, we are happy and feel safe here...

[Jimmyjames120]

5 hours ago, calbear09 said:

Curious of the age of the fathers with young children on here. Did all start families in retirement years or are there young lads here as well?

44 now,  young lad right......

Edited September 14, 2017 by Jimmyjames120

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19 hours ago, Jimmyjames120 said:

44 now,  young lad right......

We're not all dads, I am a step- granddad and great granddad, kids 3½  and 10, me nearly 70 (69 ½ ) . Trying to do it better than I did first time around.

 

 

 

[rickudon]

Returning easier to do when younger and if you have a house in the UK. I'm 65, 6 year old daughter, on pensions and no house in the UK (ex-wife has that). 

 

At my age getting a mortgage in the UK would be difficult and housing choice due to price severely limited. Also getting a permanent visa in the UK for my wife not guaranteed and expensive. 

 

I would agree that education in the UK would be PREFERABLE but i have no desire to live in a crap area (where the schools would be worse as well). I agree that villages and most small towns are still nice places to live, if you can afford it and afford a car (as transport links are awful). I have also seen that many cities are no longer pleasant to live in unless you can find a nice suburb. As any relatives i have live in the south east of UK no chance of finding anywhere affordable down there. Yes, Uk is safer but all is relative - burgled 4 times while in the UK, parents also done before they died, no heirloom jewelry left. No community spirit (last burglary, neighbours saw someone climb over the fence but didn't call the police). Also sad to see the NHS being run down (in my area, about 6 hospitals have closed over the last 30 years), bus services slashed, parks and school playing fields built over, everything run down. Just went through Gatwick airport and it is decidedly second class - cold, tatty, escalators broken, massive queues.

 

Uk is no country to live in if on a small income. Exist, yes, you have the welfare state and NHS, but those are both being squeezed as well. The younger generation are also finding out that University is no longer a door to a better life, just more debts. Many are realising that owning a house and having kids are incompatible - it needs 2 incomes to buy a house and you still require years of savings to do it. Many have given up and just rent and spend, as they see no future. When i was young, nearly anybody could see something to achieve. When i was made redundant 10 years ago, there were many 40 year olds, in executive jobs at my company, who had no children, no house as they were unaffordable. And it is far worse now. The 20 year olds will be looking to break the system soon, as it has little to offer them in the future.

 

In Thailand, there are lots of problems, but a lot of what the UK has lost. Search for what is missing in your life, Uk or Thailand. And not all schools here are bad. My daughter goes to one with few of the ills often found elsewhere. 

 

IF i had  500,000 GBP or more i would consider going back to the UK. but that is about what i think i would need to provide an acceptable quality of life. In Thailand i can get it on a lot less, and still have dreams.

[joecoolfrog]

On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 4:34 PM, RichardColeman said:

Try telling that to someone who now lives in their home UK environment full of alien people that don't speak English. To them life has gone severely downhill

Obviously your post is ridiculous hyperbole but it raises an interesting question. If certain ex pats dont like living with ' alien ' people , who dont speak English , why the hell would they move to Thailand ?

[joecoolfrog]

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 0:07 AM, cooked said:

Oh, right. I was living in Switzerland for 40 years before I  came here. I live modestly but am not down at heel, thanks.

I visited the UK, especially Leicester, about every two years during most of that time. I used to love the place, I no longer wish to visit it again.

Some of the villages I used to like are still nice, most of the big towns have gone to hell.

Comments like yours are the sort of thing usually uttered by expats that haven't noticed what has happened to their country.because they were living there.

I wasn't actually refering to you but thank you for your tourist perspective .

[khunPer]

On 9/14/2017 at 6:47 AM, calbear09 said:

Curious of the age of the fathers with young children on here. Did all start families in retirement years or are there young lads here as well?

56, no kids before and never married, so about time – probably in the genes, my dad was 50, and his dad (my grand dad) 44, so seem like we males in the family add 6 years for each generation – but I indeed feel like a young lad, so just count me as one of them...

[RichardColeman]

4 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Obviously your post is ridiculous hyperbole but it raises an interesting question. If certain ex pats dont like living with ' alien ' people , who dont speak English , why the hell would they move to Thailand ?

Typical jumping in fool - read the post. properly. I - me, I - live in Thailand. My friends stuck surrounded by immigrants don't. Nothing to do with ex-pats - its to do with those still in the UK feeling marginalized in their own community through uncontrolled immigration and failure by communities to interact and assimilate (please not Borg jokes). This is why people vote for Brexit. 

 

 

[wolf81]

On 9/14/2017 at 6:47 AM, calbear09 said:

Curious of the age of the fathers with young children on here. Did all start families in retirement years or are there young lads here as well?

 

I'm pretty "young" I guess, at 35 years old. And got my first child this year.

 

[i claudius]

We lived in the Uk and our son went to school until he was 11 then we could not get him into a decent secondry school the one he would have gone to used to have the police at the gates at going home time. We came to live in Pattaya and he went to a private school. Which was not super expensive.he then went to university and now works for a German company after working for one year for a Thai one .would we do it again .you bet your life we would. The old town we lived in was alwsys where many "immigrants" came to live now a few locals live there i think there is still a church there somewhere as well.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[wildewillie89]

I am 28 years old. I have one daughter (18 months) and will have a son born in the next few months. Forward planning I think is the key to make life successful here. I am luckier than some in the sense all health care is free for my children and I, government education is free until they finish their bachelor, and private/international education is at a significantly reduced price. Before schooling, I was lucky also that the local brand new 'free' nursery is staffed by some family members, and I can manipulate the safety of it (re teachers, security) as the Mayor (boss), is the children's grandfather. So someone cannot just go in and claim they have been told to pick up the farang kid (as happened with one Thai child in a primary school earlier this year - to be put in the begging trade). Also the nursery is directly opposite the wife's office. 

Surely, if deciding to bring up the kids in Thailand, you will educate them about how to cross a road. If they are of an age where complete comprehension is not there, then they should be supervised whilst crossing anyway (not walking about alone). 

Education is something that people need to be focused on. Usually the bigger schools (not even private) in the cities have their top two classes that the teachers do focus most of their attention on. These classes are where your doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, officials, business people etc come from. If your child is naturally bright enough to be in one of those classes, then really some outside work based around critical thinking, and more general knowledge is all that is needed to get into one of the top 5 universities in the country. A lot of that will come with day to day living with your child, the shows you choose to watch, books you choose to read etc.  

My Thai family and their relevant friends were all in those top two classes and all have professional careers now. Whereas the students not in those two classes are the secretaries (lower salaries). We all know teachers back home, so periodically test your children based on the curriculum back home to make sure they are of a good enough standard if they decide to move themselves when older. It is probably important to be a little more involved in your child's life here, rather than just relying on the government providing everything. Having said that, if your child is happy and wants to go down a completely different path not needing an education then great, but we should at least give them the opportunities to have those choices. 

 

*Make it clear to the school from the beginning that the kid will not be touched by a teacher. The schools worth sending the kids to usually know farang are a bit more strict about this than Thai families. 

I think dropping and picking the kid up from school is a must, and obviously have a designated area where the child must wait - near security/teachers (which I even had back home growing up).

In terms of general safety after school, then really people need to set up their own environment to make that a success. So for us, we have a bit of land patrolled by two giant working breed dogs who love our daughter. Gates are always closed for the safety of us (people/soi dogs not coming in), but also the safety of others also (our working breed dogs not going out). We also have fenced off play/eating areas away from the dogs for friends/cousins to visit in the future (socialisation). 

Also socialisation and safety can come in the form of extra curriculum activities. So learning instruments, sports, the odd tutoring work etc. It will also make sure your children are hanging around other like minded families, rather than the local drop outs. What I like, is the children will grow up in a community that shows just how tough life can be, so those morals of treating people equally regardless of their circumstances will be there on our evening walks around the village (3km from city). Whereas during the day, they will get a higher standard of living obviously to set them up in life. 

 

Generally speaking, of course a developed country will have a better health/education system and will be safer. However, developing countries are that bit easier to manipulate to get the best for your specific child, which can sometimes open up doors for more opportunities. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by wildewillie89

[JLCrab]

When I read something like the above, I think of the line spoken by the great English actor Robert Morley in the movie The African Queen:

Then, of course, he married well ... Soap flakes, I think.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by JLCrab