Dog repeller devices. Do they work?

[mikebike]

3 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

It is not a legal question; it is a scientific question.  In science, the burden of proof is on those who claim effectiveness.

No it is not. It IS a debate. I claim no scientific knowledge - I don't make these devices, or even know how to. I only make the claim that in my experience it has been 80-85% effective in making dogs run away from the device. You also claim that in your experience it does not work. Fine with me. All experiences may differ. Let others test for themselves.

3 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

If ultrasonic dog repellent devices with regulated by the FDA, like human medical devices, the burden of proof would be on the manufacturer who claims effectiveness.  I am unable to find studies of any kind that demonstrate the effectiveness of these devices, from which I conclude that it is unlikely that they work or else the manufacturers would publish such studies.

Or the more logical summary: they publish reams of positively hyperbolic crap about the effectiveness of the devices - because they are not restricted by the FDA's regulations (http://www.dazer.co.za/dazer.html). Why would you look for studies which could nor would never be done to draw your conclusions?

http://www.dazer.co.za/dazer.html

 

 

I note that the subscriber to the effectiveness theory of the dog repellent devices here mentions only two specific instances of conflict with vicious dogs and in both of those cases the device was completely ineffective.  So the summary of his claim is that the devices do work, except when you really need them to.

It really depends on your definition of "vicious" doesn't it? I would not expect any electronic device to be effective in your pit bull analogy. But for my wife walking alone; for chasing dogs out of our yard (soi packs have killed cats in our neighbourhood recently), and; for random gnarly soi dogs on the beach, I have found these sort of devices to be quite handy when you need them to be.

So, this discussion sounds like those with other superstitious people who have a deep emotional commitment to their belief in the absence of actual evidence.

To me it sounds like those who have a bad outcome and expect that everyone else's will be the same and when that is not the case they are dumbfounded and unable to account for variation and nuances in expectation and experience.

 

[The manic]

4 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

From what I know all they are to a dog is just a sound. For it to be anything more than that then it would probably not be legal. 

So the dogs learn to deal with or ignore the sound - especially if it is the same dogs you will be using the sound against each day. Seeing as it is just a sound, then a very serious tone of voice would probably be just as or even more effective than the actual device. The device or a voice may work on the majority of fearful dogs like a taser noise will also. But confident dogs will not care less about it - so probably doesn't justify the costs. 

 

If a dog is serious enough to have a go (the majority of dogs are all show), like previous examples have indicated, I very much doubt a noise will make much of a difference. Best deterrent is a bamboo stick, just hitting it on the ground is enough for those dogs to turn the other way - as they have been beaten with the sticks all their lives so associate the stick with a fearful experience. I desensitise my dogs with bamboo sticks for this very reason. Again. more serious dogs, well not much can help other than if you are with another dog.

A good point but as the price is cheap ill try the dog repellent. I use rocks when walking home at night but the dog that bit me is associated with The Dolphin hotel and the owners are not very cooperative. However the most brutal dog has been muzzeled as it has bitten other people.

[The manic]

4 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

Never try to teach a pig to sing.  You waste your time and it annoys the pig.

Never try and teach a know it all bore social conventions.

[MyFriend You]

I have a couple DAZER II's  -  and yes they work, dogs get close enough they run off yelping, and they remember you as well  -  once Dazed, they cautiously approach barking, go for your pocket and "off they go"  quite comical as well, great source of intertainment  -  works on screaming cats as well.  I also agree on the "Carry a bamboo stick"  smack that on the round will send mopsy dogs running away, its the odd nutcase that you have to worry about, for him, I carry a knife.

Edited September 20, 2017 by TunnelRat69

[MyFriend You]

14 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

I notice that no one reports any actual experience using these devices successfully, just unsubstantiated opinion.  Well, they don't work.  The batteries in these devices are far too small to be able to produce a blast of sound loud enough to intimidate a dog, particularly an angry dog.  Years ago I tested one while running.  I would get up as close as possible behind some unsuspecting mutt and let him have.  With one exception, there was never any reaction.  The dogs weren't startled, much less frightened.  There was one small terrier who, after getting "blasted" by my sonic device, did kind of look around with a worried expression.  If he had been intent on ripping my throat out, I doubt that it would have given him pause.

The batteries in mine are the square nine volt type - two of them

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 19/09/2017 at 8:56 PM, tonray said:

This one is neat in that it has an audible mode also which lets out a squelch that pretty much puts them on notice of they surprise you (like walking around a corner and dog !)...I used that once and he stepped back immediately and then I hit him with the ultrasound and he ran across the road. I'm pretty sure the  squelch would also work on a pesky Thai ex but I have not verified that yet....

Thai women are feline, so I doubt it.

 

I had a "home" dog repellent to stop barking in apartment blocks.

It works, but they need to be much nearer than the claimed range.

Gives them a bad headache...

Hand held ones look to be very handy.

 

 

 

 

[wildewillie89]

A study was only discussed, not referenced so I am not sure how detailed it was, but the conversation stated this:

 

'Studies found that while creatures like mice and cockroaches hear this noise, they also soon learn to ignore it. And these devices tend to operate in a frequency range that is just as audible to dogs as it is to mice. It requires a smaller mechanism that is more expensive to make to hit the kinds of sounds a mouse would hear and a dog would not (60-80 kHz)'.  

 

So, according to the DAZER website, their product range is 25 kHz. So from what I gather, and like the website of the product state, obviously all it is is a sound to try and preoccupy the dog whilst you make an escape. The companies liken it to a smoke alarm (which is relatively easy to ignore as you try to stop it). Which probably goes with some peoples experiences of it working on 8/10 dogs. It seems it will work on the dogs that are not much of an issue anyway, but by no means I would be relying on it against the dogs that are actually a real threat. 

Not to mention once the batteries die off a little bit, once the distance gets too far, or once objects are in the middle of the dog and device, the sound becomes a lot quieter to the dog. We also must remember some dog breeds use ultrasounds in training, shepherd work and hunting as positive things or commands. Seems smaller dogs react, but larger dogs can tolerate it more from different things I read.

Psychology today stated this:

 

The most persistent myth about silent dog whistles (or their electronic equivalents which also produce the same ultrasonic high-frequency sounds) is that these sounds will make a dog stop barking, stop fighting, or terminate other ongoing annoying behaviors. Unfortunately the available scientific data fails to confirm these expectations unless the dog has been trained to associate these specific sounds with rewards or punishments. In some cases attempts to use a whistle have backfired because the sound it produces may be irritating or annoying for a dog and might actually provoke them to bark, howl, or act in an excited manner,

 

Edited September 21, 2017 by wildewillie89

[earlinclaifornia]

17 hours ago, tso310 said:

I have certainly used that method successfully but I suspect they've forgotten me when I'm back in 3 weeks time so I'll see if that ultrasonic device works initially. Incidentally I will be using it from a couple of metres, nobody has said really mentioned the range of these things.

Interested in your results Please post

[johng]

I bought a kids toy cap gun

and shot several of the buggers on  different occasions that chased and barked as I cycled past, its very loud and scares the living daylights out of them.. none have chased me again.

 

Was also going to try one of those compressed airhorns...but they seem "hard to find"   found the cap gun first and it works very well

[maxpower]

In tourist areas the Thai road dogs top ambition is to get a piece of nasty farang between their teeth. Good luck with the noise gadgets.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 19/09/2017 at 10:06 PM, The manic said:

I am plagued by aggressive dogs in Soi Cosy Beach but have had problems when cycling in other places such as Nong Khai. So I was thinking of getting a dog repeller device. It is supposed to emit a sub sonic noise that causes the dog to run away. Does anyone know if they actually work? Can we buy them in Thailand? Thanks in advance for sensible, relevant answers.

Yes they do.

Yes you can.

From Hardware House.

 

[thaiowl]

I bought a Dog Dazer from Amazon...it emits an inaudible sound that the dog hears. I have used it but have never been attacked so can't vouch for its effectiveness. I also carry a taser (see attached) which crackles and scares the crap of of dogs. The Dog Dazer is clipped to my waist and the taser is in a pouch attached to my bike with cable ties.

 

[The manic]

On 21/09/2017 at 7:35 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

Yes they do.

Yes you can.

From Hardware House.

 

Where is Hardware H?

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, The manic said:

Where is Hardware H?

https://www.hardwarehouse.co.th/index.php/en

 

I've used the bangna one

 

 

[johng]

There is also a hardware house in Bahn amphur Na-Jomtien just slightly further south than the Ambassador  city hotel.

[JAFO]

On 9/19/2017 at 5:46 PM, LoZth said:

A bamboo cane or a stick works just as well.

If you need proof come and ask the pack down my soi!

Absolutely. Just a simple stick. I happen to have this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Guard-Dog-Security-SG-GD4000S-Stealth-Flashlight-Stun-Gun-110Lum-4Mil-Volt-/262931677671?epid=2254420635&hash=item3d37f301e7:g:XP8AAOSwSlBY2-77.

 

I take with me on Bike rides but have yet to use it. I do not have many dogs near my home. I brought from the US. Just the crackle of the Stun is Loud and will deter anything. 

 

The High pitched battery powered devices do not work. 

[sometimewoodworker]

31 minutes ago, JAFO said:

 

 

The High pitched battery powered devices do not work. 

Yours may not, mine does

[JAFO]

20 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Yours may not, mine does

Glad it does. The vast majority are ineffective. They might work with dogs that are barking at a gate but will not deter a dog that is attacking you. 

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Glad it does. The vast majority are ineffective. They might work with dogs that are barking at a gate but will not deter a dog that is attacking you. 

I have to agree with you.

 

 

[steven100]

Dog repeller devices. Do they work?

 

on the farm we had a device that worked every time .....  a 22' sterling semi auto.

[JAFO]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I have to agree with you.

 

 

Exactly. I have seen many folks buy the High RF dog repeller's and they simply do not generate enough High Frequency to deter a dog. Imagine you are riding your bike or walking and a large Soi dog comes running at you. The first thing I'd do is throw the dog repeller device at them then get ready to kick the dog in the head. LOL.

 

I have not had a Soi dog run in yet. But I have had a few start barking and energized the Tazer in my flashlight and the dog immediately stopped barking and all was quiet. Another good choice if you are a walker and not a bike rider would be a nice cattle prod. Works as a walking stick with a powerful punch.

[wildewillie89]

Another factor is that the dogs have actually generally been brought up around and naturally socialised with sounds. For example, the stupid month where the village lets off fireworks every 5 minutes. The temple bangs that the dogs associate with feeding time. The loud shots every time someone dies. The loud music that people play sometimes. All things that are sounds, which is what these ultrasonic devices are, just a sound to the dog. 

A stick works in Thailand as the dog has unfortunately been beaten its whole life by the stick. That is the reason they attack people, bikes and cars once they have passed or are passing in the first place - out of pure fear. They will generally not attack if you walk, ride or drive head on (which is how confident dogs will fight). If any dogs attack head on then you are in trouble and only another dog will be able to deter them...not a device. 

[jak2002003]

These devices do not work.  A friend bought a good quality expensive one for Europe and took it out with her when she was cycling.

 

At the area where she was having the dog problems (mainly with 2 aggressive dogs) she slowed down and pressed the button.  This noise annoyed  the dogs .. which went into a fit of loud barking and exciting them more... with attracted the other dogs in the street to come running to see what was going on.  So instead of getting chased and snapped at by the 2 dogs she had to flee on her bike chased by over 10 angry excited dogs which had now formed a pack!!!

 

Take my advise.  Carry with you a long thin light bamboo cane when you are cycling.  One whack on the head to the aggressive dog will change its mind about chasing you.  It will hardly hurt the dog, and cause it no injury (for the dog lovers), but the shock will stay in its mind, and it will remember you when you pass by again... and not attack.

 

My personal experience:  

 

Had to cycle through a small village several times a week. (I can't drive so have to cycle).  Every time there were about 20 dogs in that rural creepy street.. and no people about.  Several were very aggressive... I got bitten 2 times.. one just bruising, but second time rather nasty, requiring me to get rabies jabs.

 

I have seen the dogs chase other people, causing a family with a child to fall off their motor bike.  But many of the dogs belong to the temple, so no one would complain.  

 

Next time I went down there I took a bamboo cane.  As cycled normally as let the dogs get close to me... ones teeth rubbing on my ankle.  I slowed down and wacked the dog over the muzzle hard.  It was a good shot as the same stroke also hit the dog next to it over the head.  Both dogs yelped and stopped in their tracks. And the other stopped as they sensed some danger.

 

I carried the stick with me each time I went down there.  Just the second time the dogs kept their distance, but still were close.  Another whack stopped them.

 

The 3rd time they actually parted in the road and just stood and barked.  Now they actually get out of my way and don't even bark. I don't have to carry the stick. If any signs of them getting too near, I simply slow down and hold up my arm.. which sends them scampering away.  They learn fast.

 

 

 

[chrisinth]

On 9/20/2017 at 2:31 PM, wildewillie89 said:

From what I know all they are to a dog is just a sound. For it to be anything more than that then it would probably not be legal. 

So the dogs learn to deal with or ignore the sound - especially if it is the same dogs you will be using the sound against each day. Seeing as it is just a sound, then a very serious tone of voice would probably be just as or even more effective than the actual device. The device or a voice may work on the majority of fearful dogs like a taser noise will also. But confident dogs will not care less about it - so probably doesn't justify the costs. 

 

If a dog is serious enough to have a go (the majority of dogs are all show), like previous examples have indicated, I very much doubt a noise will make much of a difference. Best deterrent is a bamboo stick, just hitting it on the ground is enough for those dogs to turn the other way - as they have been beaten with the sticks all their lives so associate the stick with a fearful experience. I desensitise my dogs with bamboo sticks for this very reason. Again. more serious dogs, well not much can help other than if you are with another dog.

First person on this thread I think that has looked at a dog being a dog, and not the reaction a dog would have if it was a human................

 

As wildewillie89 points out, if a dog is so pent up to attack you there are few deterrents that will stop this from happening, least of all being a noise one. If as he also points out, they are only posturing, then an ultrasound device might work. I personally don't believe in them. 

 

The point to the above is to learn the signs of attack and posture but that would call for another thread.

 

Dogs ears are sensitive and operate outside the human ranges, what the topic is about. The other extraordinary gifts that a dog has is their smelling ability. If you want a deterrent against dogs, try something that will affect this 'gift'. An ammonia mixture sprayed in the right direction will work wonders, not so much for the eyes but for the nose. I don't use this for reasons explained later.

 

Another stopper that I have found is light. I carry a Hi-Lum ultrafire torch with me when I am out. If a dog charges, point that directly at their eyes, preferably on strobe mode, and it will stop them in their tracks. Obviously better at night but will also work in daylight. I have found that this works, others may not. 

 

But, and I know this isn't applicable to all, by far the greatest deterrent of all are my walking partners. I walk with a 32kg Siberian bitch and a 38kg German shepherd. Always on a leash. Sometimes I will get dogs charging but have never had one come into the zone.............

Edited September 24, 2017 by chrisinth

[The manic]

8 hours ago, JAFO said:

Glad it does. The vast majority are ineffective. They might work with dogs that are barking at a gate but will not deter a dog that is attacking you. 

The idea is to use it before the attack ...To get the dog or dogs to move away.

[wildewillie89]

6 hours ago, chrisinth said:

First person on this thread I think that has looked at a dog being a dog, and not the reaction a dog would have if it was a human................

 

As wildewillie89 points out, if a dog is so pent up to attack you there are few deterrents that will stop this from happening, least of all being a noise one. If as he also points out, they are only posturing, then an ultrasound device might work. I personally don't believe in them. 

 

The point to the above is to learn the signs of attack and posture but that would call for another thread.

 

Dogs ears are sensitive and operate outside the human ranges, what the topic is about. The other extraordinary gifts that a dog has is their smelling ability. If you want a deterrent against dogs, try something that will affect this 'gift'. An ammonia mixture sprayed in the right direction will work wonders, not so much for the eyes but for the nose. I don't use this for reasons explained later.

 

Another stopper that I have found is light. I carry a Hi-Lum ultrafire torch with me when I am out. If a dog charges, point that directly at their eyes, preferably on strobe mode, and it will stop them in their tracks. Obviously better at night but will also work in daylight. I have found that this works, others may not. 

 

But, and I know this isn't applicable to all, by far the greatest deterrent of all are my walking partners. I walk with a 32kg Siberian bitch and a 38kg German shepherd. Always on a leash. Sometimes I will get dogs charging but have never had one come into the zone.............

Yes, the zone I can relate to. The same with my Caucasian, dogs will wait til she is not looking, run a good 20 metres barking and growling, only to stop 2 metres away as she has turned around by that point. Then run away with the tail between the legs. She has absolutely no dog aggression unless it is really called for (usually has to be 3-4 dogs charging us before she steps up) as she is still young and the breed will not attack cowards by nature. She even gets down to want to play with the attacking dog sometimes lol. But just the size is enough of a deterrent (50kg) to keep fearful Thai dogs a safe distance. 

Be careful though with your dogs, particularly where I live there has been big increases in Fila Brasileiros being sold. I too have one, but had experience with Maremmas and Caucasian before getting him. I know a lot of police who are actually breeding them lately to make a bit of extra cash. A lot of high ranking officials get given breeding pairs as gifts, and they pass the puppies down to their juniors for free who also find people to breed with.

However, the problem is, Thai treat them as any other dog, so many yards may not be gated or fenced. The modern lines are quite dog aggressive, mine at 3 months already wants to control the vet waiting room (regardless of how big the other dogs are) - and of course all lines are stranger aggressive. A great walking partner in terms of keeping dogs away, but just make sure you are always aware of any new dogs that enter your neighborhood. 

Be careful for everyone really. I hate 'dangerous dog' laws, but some breeds really do need people who have half a brain in their heads. Seeing as the breed standard is that the dog must not be scared of a gun shot 1 metre away at the age of 12 months, then good luck with these devices working lol. 

[The manic]

4 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Yes, the zone I can relate to. The same with my Caucasian, dogs will wait til she is not looking, run a good 20 metres barking and growling, only to stop 2 metres away as she has turned around by that point. Then run away with the tail between the legs. She has absolutely no dog aggression unless it is really called for (usually has to be 3-4 dogs charging us before she steps up) as she is still young and the breed will not attack cowards by nature. She even gets down to want to play with the attacking dog sometimes lol. But just the size is enough of a deterrent (50kg) to keep fearful Thai dogs a safe distance. 

Be careful though with your dogs, particularly where I live there has been big increases in Fila Brasileiros being sold. I too have one, but had experience with Maremmas and Caucasian before getting him. I know a lot of police who are actually breeding them lately to make a bit of extra cash. A lot of high ranking officials get given breeding pairs as gifts, and they pass the puppies down to their juniors for free who also find people to breed with.

However, the problem is, Thai treat them as any other dog, so many yards may not be gated or fenced. The modern lines are quite dog aggressive, mine at 3 months already wants to control the vet waiting room (regardless of how big the other dogs are) - and of course all lines are stranger aggressive. A great walking partner in terms of keeping dogs away, but just make sure you are always aware of any new dogs that enter your neighborhood. 

Be careful for everyone really. I hate 'dangerous dog' laws, but some breeds really do need people who have half a brain in their heads. Seeing as the breed standard is that the dog must not be scared of a gun shot 1 metre away at the age of 12 months, then good luck with these devices working lol. 

I am talking about Thai Soi dogs who have little or no training but are very territorial in the limited area of road where they are fed. There are no training standards as such. Most run away with a well aimed stone before they are in full attack mode. Anyway I will be testing out flashlights and subsonic repellers on one particular dog and another group of dogs around Pratumnak and will report back. 

[wildewillie89]

6 minutes ago, The manic said:

I am talking about Thai Soi dogs who have little or no training but are very territorial in the limited area of road where they are fed. There are no training standards as such. Most run away with a well aimed stone before they are in full attack mode. Anyway I will be testing out flashlights and subsonic repellers on one particular dog and another group of dogs around Pratumnak and will report back. 

Immediate future of soi dogs I think will now start to include more naturally confident dog breeds (what we consider work or training is complete natural instinct for these dogs, even with a poor start to life). Pet ownership (in particular imports) is increasing in Thailand, as Thai dogs aren't considered effective enough anymore by many (mostly due to size). I feel these dogs will end up 'accidentally' mating with the local dogs and the puppies will end up soi dogs.

For this reason I think the thread indirectly raises a good point, if the repellents and flashlights are ineffective, then what are the majority left with if dogs do become less fear, but more prey or defensive driven. 

[The manic]

29 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

Immediate future of soi dogs I think will now start to include more naturally confident dog breeds (what we consider work or training is complete natural instinct for these dogs, even with a poor start to life). Pet ownership (in particular imports) is increasing in Thailand, as Thai dogs aren't considered effective enough anymore by many (mostly due to size). I feel these dogs will end up 'accidentally' mating with the local dogs and the puppies will end up soi dogs.

For this reason I think the thread indirectly raises a good point, if the repellents and flashlights are ineffective, then what are the majority left with if dogs do become less fear, but more prey or defensive driven. 

Hopefully the fashionable devil dogs will mate with the fashionable toy handbag dogs ...or maybe not. The ultimate deterrent for resisting a dog attack at close quarters is to take their front paws and spread their forlegs  open violently on a horizontal axis thus tearing their heart open. But let's hope it doesn't get to that?!

[chrisinth]

12 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

Yes, the zone I can relate to. The same with my Caucasian, dogs will wait til she is not looking, run a good 20 metres barking and growling, only to stop 2 metres away as she has turned around by that point. Then run away with the tail between the legs. She has absolutely no dog aggression unless it is really called for (usually has to be 3-4 dogs charging us before she steps up) as she is still young and the breed will not attack cowards by nature. She even gets down to want to play with the attacking dog sometimes lol. But just the size is enough of a deterrent (50kg) to keep fearful Thai dogs a safe distance. 

Be careful though with your dogs, particularly where I live there has been big increases in Fila Brasileiros being sold. I too have one, but had experience with Maremmas and Caucasian before getting him. I know a lot of police who are actually breeding them lately to make a bit of extra cash. A lot of high ranking officials get given breeding pairs as gifts, and they pass the puppies down to their juniors for free who also find people to breed with.

However, the problem is, Thai treat them as any other dog, so many yards may not be gated or fenced. The modern lines are quite dog aggressive, mine at 3 months already wants to control the vet waiting room (regardless of how big the other dogs are) - and of course all lines are stranger aggressive. A great walking partner in terms of keeping dogs away, but just make sure you are always aware of any new dogs that enter your neighborhood. 

Be careful for everyone really. I hate 'dangerous dog' laws, but some breeds really do need people who have half a brain in their heads. Seeing as the breed standard is that the dog must not be scared of a gun shot 1 metre away at the age of 12 months, then good luck with these devices working lol. 

 Yeah, we don't have any Filas near us or anything larger than a Labrador for that matter. The pit and even Bang Kaew mixes near us are no problem either, non showing out-and-out aggression. 

 

It is a good point you make about not all soi dogs are soi dogs. I see that quite often when the dog owners let their dogs run with the pack as it were.