Pheu Thai will not shake off the Shinawatra connection

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EDITORIAL

Pheu Thai will not shake off the Shinawatra connection

By The Nation

 

Is sticking with them the right strategy?
 

Even if former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra is found guilty by the Supreme Court this week over her government’s rice-pledging scandal, it is unlikely to cast any shadow over her relationship with the Pheu Thai Party. The bond between her clan and the biggest political party has apparently become unbreakable and, to the party, it does not matter whether the linkage is an asset or a liability.

 

A few days ago, the party’s acting secretary-general emerged to seek evidence regarding her “escape from justice”. The move by Phumtham Wechayachai underlines what everyone expects – that the party is not just keeping links with her, but will also use her to advertise itself. From the way things are, the party will not distance itself from the Shinawatras, but will rather seek to win the next election based on its connection with the clan.

 

It has been the same with her brother, Thaksin. Pheu Thai and the Shinawatras cannot exist without each other. The relationship is different from the one between the Democrat Party and its leadership. The rival party, which was unable to match Pheu Thai’s rural popularity in previous elections, has made more natural transitions when it comes to passing the torch. In other words, the Democrat Party can easily move on if Abhisit Vejjajiva leaves the helm, but Pheu Thai’s future will be absolutely volatile without Thaksin’s family.

 

Some say the time is ripe for Pheu Thai to come out of the Shinawatras’ shadow. Others say the party is not ready for a normal transition. The camp has had several leaders since Thaksin was overthrown in a 2006 coup, but everyone of them, including Yingluck, was his thinly-veiled nominee.

 

Pheu Thai’s link with the Shinawatras has its pros and cons. It won the party elections, obviously, but it has also beset the political camp with problems serious enough to destabilise its governments. The latest turmoil the party faced resulted directly from a legislative policy its opponents insisted was designed to help Thaksin.

 

Before that, Pheu Thai had been strongly convinced that it would comfortably hold on to power in the years that followed. Everything was going its way, namely the return from five-year political bans of more than 100 politicians who were practically its allies, the passage of key financial bills, and the internal problems of the Democrat Party itself. Then the “amnesty bill” changed everything, as the aggressive push for its passage refuelled anti-Shinawatra sentiment, triggered massive street protests and led to the 2014 coup that toppled Yingluck.

 

Phumtham and other Pheu Thai strategists are certainly aware of the risks associated with the party’s linkage with the Shinawatras. But they must have either concluded that it is too soon to cut loose from the clan, or, more likely, decided that they will stick with the family forever.

 

Pheu Thai always considers the middle-class uprising against it a pro-Democrat conspiracy. That may be a mistake as big as the Democrats’ assumption that Pheu Thai only bought its way to power. The wrong assumption keeps Pheu Thai from the middle class, meaning it always has to rely on the Shinawatras come what may.

 

Pheu Thai is going into the next election with two choices. It can keep the strong bond with the Shinawatras, hoping that it brings a victory that can give the party boasting rights, or it can start accepting that, in the Thai context, election victories alone are not the answer to all questions including its own.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30327572

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-09-25

[ChrisY1]

What ever PT do, the military will continue to starve them until they realise that the party is doomed.

 

[Samui Bodoh]

I think it would be a very good thing for Thailand if the party moved away from the Shin family. It would not be an immediate shift, but beginning the process would allow for the development of a more issue-based entity.

 

The forces that catapulted the 'Red' side to victory are still very much prevalent in today's Thailand. Income inequality (especially the NE vs Bangkok), lack of respect for people from the N and NE, a Bangkok-centered decision making process, an unjust allocation of resources, and a biased system of justice are all issues that resonate still.

 

I think the party should enter into the next election (provided it is actually held soon) with the idea that it will not try to form a government no matter how many seats it holds. Rather, it would go into opposition and spend the time re-building networks and developing policies for the future. And criticize the hell out of whatever emerges from the military/Dem alliance, with a special focus on the undemocratic aspects and the lack of legitimacy.

 

I doubt the 'Reds' would be permitted to do anything after the next election, so why bother? And why take the blame for all the crap the military has done?

 

Hunker down, start to loosen the ties to the Shins, re-build the networks, and criticize mercilessly all the crap from the Green\Yellows.

 

[PatOngo]

I don't think the Shins will fade in a hurry, their BS is slightly more believable than the BS of the PTB!

[Siripon]

Pheua Thai will never desert the Shinawats so long as the public continues to support Thaksin. The MPs have the lesson of Nevin in the past when he broke away and his party failed.

Why leave a popular figure? They would be foolish to risk their seats. As I have said in the past this problem will not be resolved untilThaksin has ceased to be.

[hawker9000]

I too don't think that the Shinawatras can be "shaken off" as easily as changing shirts.   Should PT try and do that, they'll only alienate their own.  The two are practically synonymous.   In fact, I'm not sure any such opposition party, that is, any party that postures itself as representing the same political interests and goals, would be able to put much distance between itself and the Shinawatras, not for many years anyway.   And should any such party ever, somehow, accede to power, Thaksin would then return, that party subsumed, and it'd all be game on once again.

 

 

 

 

 

[sweatalot]

Pheu Thai will not shake off the Shinawatra connection

 

of course they won't shake off their owner and money source

[halloween]

How is PTP going to be wealthy enough to pay its MPs a salary without its filthy rich owner?

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

They dont need to move away from them as both Shins are deeply loved by many voters. If there is a fair election monitored and run by an independent EC and any one of the Shins is one on one with any of the junta they will win with a landslide. For the first time people that we dont know is speaking out in the open against the junta. This is unheard of as in the past people will only talk like this to close friends and family. The pressure is building. 

[Eric Loh]

Why drop a winning formula helped by the junta's misfiring on every fronts and the hopelessly clueless Dem Party. 

[Get Real]

That´s because they have a very morbid and comfusing view of reality. On the other hand it´s a big step to bite the hand of power and financial support, to finally go from infant stage to a strong and independent toddler.

[The Deerhunter]

Thaksin's smartest idea was actually really simple.  He kept a few(or more) election promises unlike most others who promised much before him.  Perhaps several millions of those people who got the cheap clinics and other infrastructure he provided will always see him as a misunderstood man who tried to save Thailand.  But it was he that misunderstood.  He could have been PM for life and have statues all over LOS in a few years.  The first honest PM who really helped the poor.!!!   Instead he got too greedy too soon and decided to help himself and his family instead.  The rest is history.    Those in well paid positions in Pheu Thai cannot afford to let him go.  They will go on trying to keep each others' dream alive and the army and their mates will never allow him back.  And so it goes!   Sigh!

Edited September 25, 2017 by The Deerhunter

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Siripon said:

Pheua Thai will never desert the Shinawats so long as the public continues to support Thaksin. The MPs have the lesson of Nevin in the past when he broke away and his party failed.

Why leave a popular figure? They would be foolish to risk their seats. As I have said in the past this problem will not be resolved untilThaksin has ceased to be.

 

They can't. The Shin clan own PTP, the red shirts, and the UDD. They appointed Ministers and shuffled them regularly to get turns at the trough, they paid MPs a salary in addition to their parliamentary one; they appointed  the UDD leaders.

 

The Shins are the brains and the heart of PTP. The latter pumping money instead of blood through the veins. Undoubtedly, those organizations have attracted support from many who perhaps want social reform but see the Shins for what they are. But, getting these organizations away from their control - a very difficult task indeed.

 

I think you're right. Thaksin will never cease whilst he's breathing. After he's gone, the head is cut off the dragon.

[The Deerhunter]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Why drop a winning formula helped by the junta's misfiring on every fronts and the hopelessly clueless Dem Party. 

I hate to find myself almost agreeing with you Eric.   I did say ALMOST!!!   See Baerboxer below.  That's my take on it.  But the plan has worked well until  a month ago.  It might take a bit more massaging now.

Edited September 25, 2017 by The Deerhunter

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Why drop a winning formula helped by the junta's misfiring on every fronts and the hopelessly clueless Dem Party. 

 

Contrive to win an election, once in power thieve and conspire to make yourself above the law, become too greedy and too arrogant with the thieving, get kicked out by a court, exercise power through a puppet pleb; get party kicked out by a coup. Wash and repeat.

 

Great formula Eric, truly great!

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

They dont need to move away from them as both Shins are deeply loved by many voters. If there is a fair election monitored and run by an independent EC and any one of the Shins is one on one with any of the junta they will win with a landslide. For the first time people that we dont know is speaking out in the open against the junta. This is unheard of as in the past people will only talk like this to close friends and family. The pressure is building. 

 

Do you think the Shins would still threaten, intimidate, assault and murder any opponents who dared to try and canvas in there "patch" again?

 

 

[The Deerhunter]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

They can't. The Shin clan own PTP, the red shirts, and the UDD. They appointed Ministers and shuffled them regularly to get turns at the trough, they paid MPs a salary in addition to their parliamentary one; they appointed  the UDD leaders.

 

The Shins are the brains and the heart of PTP. The latter pumping money instead of blood through the veins. Undoubtedly, those organizations have attracted support from many who perhaps want social reform but see the Shins for what they are. But, getting these organizations away from their control - a very difficult task indeed.

 

I think you're right. Thaksin will never cease whilst he's breathing. After he's gone, the head is cut off the dragon.

Perhaps there is another family/secession agenda above him.  There are those that see him as just the the front man.   I am not sure they are right but it is worth considering

[Baerboxer]

Just now, The Deerhunter said:

Perhaps there is another family/secession agenda above him.  There are those that see him as just the the front man.   I am not sure they are right but it is worth considering

 

Anything is possible, especially here. But having met him, albeit several years ago, and at a football match, I wouldn't have thought that. He seriously comes across as a very clever, shrewd man, real CEO/PM type, but one who is firmly in control and revels in the adulation and respect those positions give him.

 

He's, IMO, very good with people. He put up with loads of "selfie" requests, is a generous host, and has the ability to engage everyone in a full room and make everyone feel connected.

 

If it hadn't been for all the flaws, he could really have been one of the great PM's and easily the best in SEA since Lee.

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Contrive to win an election, once in power thieve and conspire to make yourself above the law, become too greedy and too arrogant with the thieving, get kicked out by a court, exercise power through a puppet pleb; get party kicked out by a coup. Wash and repeat.

 

Great formula Eric, truly great!

It got to be a great formula if you keep winning. Too much winning. But got to say that the losers with their guns still call the shots. Not a good formula for the country to have the losers plotting and using crony agencies and friendly courts to go after the winners.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

It got to be a great formula if you keep winning. Too much winning. But got to say that the losers with their guns still call the shots. Not a good formula for the country to have the losers plotting and using crony agencies and friendly courts to go after the winners.

 

If only the winners were honest and coud abide by the law and stop thieving - then it wouldn't be so easy to go after them!

[Eric Loh]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

If only the winners were honest and coud abide by the law and stop thieving - then it wouldn't be so easy to go after them!

Perhaps the losers stop using dirty tactics and allow the courts to be independence and democracy to function will empowered the citizens to chose better and non-corrupted politicians.

[The Deerhunter]

19 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

It got to be a great formula if you keep winning. Too much winning. But got to say that the losers with their guns still call the shots. Not a good formula for the country to have the losers plotting and using crony agencies and friendly courts to go after the winners.

Durn it.  I nearly agree with you again.  But again NEARLY. 

[The Deerhunter]

54 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Anything is possible, especially here. But having met him, albeit several years ago, and at a football match, I wouldn't have thought that. He seriously comes across as a very clever, shrewd man, real CEO/PM type, but one who is firmly in control and revels in the adulation and respect those positions give him.

 

He's, IMO, very good with people. He put up with loads of "selfie" requests, is a generous host, and has the ability to engage everyone in a full room and make everyone feel connected.

 

If it hadn't been for all the flaws, he could really have been one of the great PM's and easily the best in SEA since Lee.

That is a remarkable assessment coming from you.  Pretty much my assessment of what the man must be like but I never met him.  You describe all the hallmarks of that very rare individual, Churchill and JFK had it. It is ironic that he got so close to "popular universal adulation for life" and blew it away.  He must know it and it must eat him and that is why he keeps trying to rewrite history with him in the box seat.  Sad really for him as well as Thailand.  They are still waiting, as I have said many times, for their Lee Kwan Yew.

Edited September 25, 2017 by The Deerhunter

[Samui Bodoh]

Several members (Sweatalot, Halloween, Baerboxer) have brought up party finances in regard to Thaksin and the PTP/Reds, and this is a subject that I find very interesting. I believe the gist of the comments are that PTP/Reds are too beholden to the money man and that this is a very bad thing (apologies if I have mis-characterized your views!). 

 

I think that there is a lot of truth to the comments regarding money and politics.

 

However, I cannot understand why the finances of the PTP\Reds are of such interest and condemnation, yet the finances of 'the other half of the political divide'/Yellows aren't. I have asked about the 'Yellow' finances before, but never get an answer. I will try again.

 

Who finances the Democrat party?

 

Who pays for the Dems office space?

Who pays for the Dems advertising?

Who pays for the Dems travelling expenses?

Who pays for the Dems research?

Who pays for the Dems rallies?

Who pays for the Dems vote-buying (yes, they do it as well)?

Who pays for the Dems party staffers' salaries?

 

And what do they get for that money?

 

I am sure that someone will point out that the Dem MPs donate 10% of their salary to the party, but that is a mere token gesture. A nice token gesture in my view, but still a token gesture. It would cover the costs of 1-2 staffers and nothing more.

 

And a bonus question as we are discussing money in politics. Who paid for Suthep's mob? That little adventure was likely far, far north of 100,000,000 baht.

 

Looking forward to the replies!

 

Cheers

 

[halloween]

14 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Several members (Sweatalot, Halloween, Baerboxer) have brought up party finances in regard to Thaksin and the PTP/Reds, and this is a subject that I find very interesting. I believe the gist of the comments are that PTP/Reds are too beholden to the money man and that this is a very bad thing (apologies if I have mis-characterized your views!). 

 

I think that there is a lot of truth to the comments regarding money and politics.

 

However, I cannot understand why the finances of the PTP\Reds are of such interest and condemnation, yet the finances of 'the other half of the political divide'/Yellows aren't. I have asked about the 'Yellow' finances before, but never get an answer. I will try again.

 

Who finances the Democrat party?

 

Who pays for the Dems office space?

Who pays for the Dems advertising?

Who pays for the Dems travelling expenses?

Who pays for the Dems research?

Who pays for the Dems rallies?

Who pays for the Dems vote-buying (yes, they do it as well)?

Who pays for the Dems party staffers' salaries?

 

And what do they get for that money?

 

I am sure that someone will point out that the Dem MPs donate 10% of their salary to the party, but that is a mere token gesture. A nice token gesture in my view, but still a token gesture. It would cover the costs of 1-2 staffers and nothing more.

 

And a bonus question as we are discussing money in politics. Who paid for Suthep's mob? That little adventure was likely far, far north of 100,000,000 baht.

 

Looking forward to the replies!

 

Cheers

 

Thai democrats or US? AFAIK their fundraising and donations are much the same, and quite possibly involve a certain level of access and influence.

Which is far different than paying bribes via a political party in return for setting policy.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Who finances the Democrat party?

Suthep is one of the main financier. The man who advocate a non-elected royalist council and a great friend of Prayut, has been a big contributor to the Dem Party and has great influence on the party vision and guided their strategy. So great was his financial contribution that the party gave him the position of deputy PM in the Ahbisit government even though he caused Chuan's government to collapse. More or less, a criminal running the party. 

[gamini]

7 hours ago, Siripon said:

Pheua Thai will never desert the Shinawats so long as the public continues to support Thaksin. The MPs have the lesson of Nevin in the past when he broke away and his party failed.

Why leave a popular figure? They would be foolish to risk their seats. As I have said in the past this problem will not be resolved untilThaksin has ceased to be.

You failed to mention that they can not desert Thaksin because it is he who pays everything for them. They need money to buy votes too.

[Samui Bodoh]

45 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Suthep is one of the main financier. The man who advocate a non-elected royalist council and a great friend of Prayut, has been a big contributor to the Dem Party and has great influence on the party vision and guided their strategy. So great was his financial contribution that the party gave him the position of deputy PM in the Ahbisit government even though he caused Chuan's government to collapse. More or less, a criminal running the party. 

 

Thanks for the information! That leads me to so many questions that I probably shouldn't ask on a public forum.

 

I am a bit surprised to hear the information from you. I have read a couple of hundred posts this year alone about money in politics, but never ONE about the Dem party financing. Funny that...

 

Cheers

[Eric Loh]

56 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Thanks for the information! That leads me to so many questions that I probably shouldn't ask on a public forum.

 

I am a bit surprised to hear the information from you. I have read a couple of hundred posts this year alone about money in politics, but never ONE about the Dem party financing. Funny that...

 

Cheers

This is among many inconvenient truth that Shin haters avoid. Among others are:-

- Thailand is one corrupt cesspool and every governments are/ were involved in some form of corruptions. Shin parties are not the exception 

- junta governments concealed their corruption with intimidation and clever use of law and amnesty

- corrupt organizations fund parties to get privileges and preferential treatment

- every government exploit the law to self-benefit their corruption 

- every government exploit media for

to their advantage 

 

Seem all governments are corrupted but Shin parties are singled out. Certainly not for reasons of corruption but for being popular and leading the voiceless poor. The establishment don't like competition and want the honey pot to themselves and a submissive uneducated mass of subjugated poor. 

 

Cheers

[Samui Bodoh]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

This is among many inconvenient truth that Shin haters avoid. Among others are:-

- Thailand is one corrupt cesspool and every governments are/ were involved in some form of corruptions. Shin parties are not the exception 

- junta governments concealed their corruption with intimidation and clever use of law and amnesty

- corrupt organizations fund parties to get privileges and preferential treatment

- every government exploit the law to self-benefit their corruption 

- every government exploit media for

to their advantage 

 

Seem all governments are corrupted but Shin parties are singled out. Certainly not for reasons of corruption but for being popular and leading the voiceless poor. The establishment don't like competition and want the honey pot to themselves and a submissive uneducated mass of subjugated poor. 

 

Cheers

 

I can't argue with any of that, and won't even try. I have no problem with people who dislike the Shin family, but if you are going to go after one group, you should apply the same principles to every group. That doesn't happen, and it is deeply hypocritical.

 

That said, I still think it is time for the Shin family to take a big step back from the party. Yes, they will continue to be a major voice for the immediate and near future, but it is time to step back from day to day things for a while. More specifically, I think that the next leader of the party should be someone from outside the family. Every political party needs renewal, and few parties manage to maintain their "freshness" beyond ten years. 

 

I want to see the people in the N and NE have a voice, a STRONG voice. For that to happen, the PTP/Reds need to renew a bit, get some new faces in and think about some new policies. Now is not the time to try to govern.

 

Cheers