Should the British Government be responsible for housing and feeding ex-pats returning from Thailand?

[wakeupplease]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Non EEA national immigrants coming to live in the UK are not entitled to any benefits, except those they have paid the appropriate NICs for, until they have Indefinite Leave to Remain; which takes at least 5 years to obtain. If the spouse or partner of a British citizen, their British sponsor is able to claim any and all benefits they may be entitled to as an individual, but cannot claim any extra due to their immigrant spouse or partner living with them which they would otherwise be entitled to were their partner or spouse a British citizen. This includes eligibility to social housing.

 

It is different for returning British ex pats; all they have to do to be able to claim any and all benefits they would be entitled to had they never left the UK, including social housing, is pass the habitual residence test. See this from Citizens Advice. Note that, if they pass, they can receive these benefits immediately, they don't have to be a UK resident for at least three months as it claims in the OP.

 

They receive far more than refugees do!

 

An unemployed returning ex pat, aged 25 or over, would receive at least the minimum income support amount of £73.10 p.w.; asylum seekers receive a maximum allowance of £36.95 p.w..

 

Edit:

Reading further through the topic, I see that others have made similar ill informed points to darksidedog and DoctorG about eligibility to public funds in the UK. I hope those people see this so they can learn the facts rather than make assumptions.

 

 

Sorry sunshine you are very wrong, my wife got all the befits after 2 years, now its 5 years to get British nationalization, just check your facts b4 posting

[darren1971]

I'm slightly torn on this, you judge a nation by how they take care of their own citizens, I think we should try to help him and he should in return try to help himself, it's a difficult balance..... but jeez there's some nasty heartless people out there, I imagine living very comfortable lives. I would rather go to my grave thinking we tried to help out a few that really didn't deserve it than knowing it was all a case of I'm ok jack stuff you. What world would you rather live in if the shit ever hits the fan for you?

Edited October 3, 2017 by darren1971

[joecoolfrog]

19 hours ago, hansnl said:

But, the Government pays out huge amounts of money to every so-called fugutive, mostly from islamic countries, that arrives in Britain.

Do why not help British Nationals?

Total and utter bullshit !

 

[joecoolfrog]

As a British tax payer of long standing I dont particularly like those who abuse the system , nationality is irrelevent in this respect.

I have to say though that those who truly believe , as opposed to those bigots who spread hate to promote their agenda , that immigrants get a ' better deal ' , please educate yourselves !

[joecoolfrog]

8 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

As you know, my wife is now in the process of applying for a settlement visa. One of the requirements is that she must provide a certificate to show she is free from T.B.

she must also provide a Thai police document showing that she has no criminal past. These rules are in place for good reasons, and I fully accept them. What I cannot accept is that some people with no connection at all to the U.K. are exempt.

 

Please cite actual documented cases of these exempt persons , I dont think they exist to be frank and I am a life long , Conservative voting , British tax payer.

Whenever I try to find evidence of such claims I end up discovering the source material is from an extreme right wing , anti immigrant organisation.

I wouldn't personally care to form an opinion based on those sources , especially when the propaganda they promote is at odds with EVERY government information site.

[Kadilo]

9 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Thanks, yes I also agree your health system wouldn't cope with it, hence the reason I made a suggestion that the government should go into a joint venture with its alcohol partners and put funds towards the poison they dish out, as much as we enjoy drinking it, have a responsibility to the ones who drink too much.

 

In all honesty, it is hard to see loved ones have a bottle of Johnny Red for breakfast and a bottle of Ouzo or Vodka for dinner, absolute ugly to find them in the morning past out on the floor with blood seeping from their head wounds as they hit the floor, on their way to bed or the bathroom, its like you and me not being able to drink enough water, always thirsty, as my brother would always say to me, help me, help me, I can;t stop, its killing me, and it did in the end, because the hospital got sick of seeing him turn up in an ambulance with head wounds, putting him back in an induced coma, etc, etc, with their attitude being if you want to kill yourself, just do it, as we have people that require our services, which I can understand, that is why the governments need to have some special care places established to combat the situation, because the problem isn't going to go away, its only going to get worse, just look at drink driving for an example.

Sorry to hear about your brother. Must tear you to bits to see that kind of thing happening to you own flesh and blood. 

We have a history of addiction in my Family too which has caused deep family divisions. 

You are right, all these related illnesses will not go away but they appear to drop the list of priorities when governments decide expenditure plans. 

 

[LazySlipper]

16 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   We are talking about this guy in particular .

Asylum seekers and terrorists are besides the point .

You left the U.K. , other people went to live in the UK

They may now be entitled to some things that you are not .

 

I'm not from the UK but rather from another welfare state similar to the UK, and we are facing the same problems.

Asylum seekers who may be terrorists are much part of the point. A lot of them are part of a network set up to get them organised as soon as possible in our countries.

 

This guy we are talking about? How different is he than any of us? 

Enjoyed life a bit too much but now he will have to live under a bridge?

Sorry. I don't subscribe to that point of view.

I went through <deleted> in the 80's and I was not entitled to anything, while immigrants from Haiti were being ushered in front of me towards good paying jobs because they were part of a visible minority. They even had their rent paid in Gvt housing while I was living in a crappy over priced apartment.

In my country, immigrants have always been entitled to something I have not!!!

Edited October 3, 2017 by LazySlipper

[Khun Paul]

Any expat has a responsibility to ensure he / she has enough funds to live, in  this case he tried, failed and resorted to drink. A similar story even in the UK , as a young man he made choices which were clearly wrong in hindsight. The UK with the ever increasing demands on its Welfare state has procedures in  place to stop abuse and unfortunately at his age he is entitled to nothing, has not paid in enough to get much if anything out.

Those expats who still pay UK Income tax having paid fully into NI, are still in the game as it were for receiving assistance and eventually benefits after a short period of time, should they return to the UK. Those who opted out of paying Income tax and NI contributions have a tough time. 

 

This young man despite his assurances, has failed miserably and I am sorry deserves everything he gets , for his failure to deal with his problems.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Khun Paul
adding a sentence

[craigt3365]

16 hours ago, inThailand said:

 

If you look around at the expats, thats seems to an accurate statement.

You hang around the wrong expats.

[inThailand]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

You hang around the wrong expats.

 

It's hard not too!

[chrissables]

14 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

 

Oh come on he paid in very little compared to the rest of us as he legged it overseas for a better life which ended in failure, so then you expect everyone else to pay for his problems.

 

fake refugees, yes there are some, but even they pay tax of one sort or another, where mark sat in the sunshine and got pissed every day and now expects the UK to support him.

 

So many on here knock the old country but thats where they run when the S>>> hits the fan as it will for most expats here.

My comment was in a general way, not specifically him :)

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, inThailand said:

 

It's hard not too!

Actually, it's quite easy.  Not hard at all.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Khun Paul said:

Any expat has a responsibility to ensure he / she has enough funds to live, in  this case he tried, failed and resorted to drink. A similar story even in the UK , as a young man he made choices which were clearly wrong in hindsight. The UK with the ever increasing demands on its Welfare state has procedures in  place to stop abuse and unfortunately at his age he is entitled to nothing, has not paid in enough to get much if anything out.

Those expats who still pay UK Income tax having paid fully into NI, are still in the game as it were for receiving assistance and eventually benefits after a short period of time, should they return to the UK. Those who opted out of paying Income tax and NI contributions have a tough time. 

 

This young man despite his assurances, has failed miserably and I am sorry deserves everything he gets , for his failure to deal with his problems.

 

Factually incorrect.  'Mark' is receiving benefits to which he is entitled as a British man resident in the UK.  Contributions are only important when calculating pension entitlement.  You have tried to introduce a moralistic tone in to the rules, which simply is not there.

Those who still pay UK income tax are not automatically resident which is based on where you live more than 6  months a year (I think). Residency is the key issue and there is no distinction between 'Mark' and any other expat.

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Sounds like you are definitely living in the wrong place..

[Rimmer]

A troll post and a reply have been removed

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Sorry to hear about your brother. Must tear you to bits to see that kind of thing happening to you own flesh and blood. 

We have a history of addiction in my Family too which has caused deep family divisions. 

You are right, all these related illnesses will not go away but they appear to drop the list of priorities when governments decide expenditure plans. 

 

 

Sorry to hear of your situation, it is so saddening, one of the other brothers couldn't visit him in hospital the last time, his excuse being that he wanted to remember him the was he was.

 

My brothers relationship faltered, his partner couldn't take the pain anymore and drew a line before he went over the edge, and told him to leave home, which he did, she was his rock and put up a lot.

 

About a year later I called her and told her he was passing, she wanted to see him, and did, it was very emotional, with him saying to me afterwards, how can it be, she died, she died a long time ago, just goes to show you where his mental state was. She was there till the end, even though she was in another relationship, good old school girl, you can't find them like that, I still communicate with her some 9 years later.

 

He was eventually put into palliative care as the last time his liver wouldn't repair, he went blind about a week later, and then finally went into a coma before passing, seeing him in that state for some reason made me feel at ease, not seeing him suffering anymore, as strange as it seems.

 

But you learn to live with it, you miss him dearly, he was a loose cannon, very likeable and a very intelligent being, would go way out to help anyone, but that means nothing in the end.

 

I almost past a month before he did due to a lot of stress (heart attack), work, back and forth to the hospital, morning and evening to see him and feed him, the hospital staff in my opinion, didn't give a rats, I have learnt to forgive people for giving up on him, especially family, but will never forget, I have very little to do with family now, except for mum who survives in a nursing home back in Oz, can;t bring her here because of her Dementia and Diabetes, and you are right when you say it causes deep family divisions.

 

 

[Kadilo]

48 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Sorry to hear of your situation, it is so saddening, one of the other brothers couldn't visit him in hospital the last time, his excuse being that he wanted to remember him the was he was.

 

My brothers relationship faltered, his partner couldn't take the pain anymore and drew a line before he went over the edge, and told him to leave home, which he did, she was his rock and put up a lot.

 

About a year later I called her and told her he was passing, she wanted to see him, and did, it was very emotional, with him saying to me afterwards, how can it be, she died, she died a long time ago, just goes to show you where his mental state was. She was there till the end, even though she was in another relationship, good old school girl, you can't find them like that, I still communicate with her some 9 years later.

 

He was eventually put into palliative care as the last time his liver wouldn't repair, he went blind about a week later, and then finally went into a coma before passing, seeing him in that state for some reason made me feel at ease, not seeing him suffering anymore, as strange as it seems.

 

But you learn to live with it, you miss him dearly, he was a loose cannon, very likeable and a very intelligent being, would go way out to help anyone, but that means nothing in the end.

 

I almost past a month before he did due to a lot of stress (heart attack), work, back and forth to the hospital, morning and evening to see him and feed him, the hospital staff in my opinion, didn't give a rats, I have learnt to forgive people for giving up on him, especially family, but will never forget, I have very little to do with family now, except for mum who survives in a nursing home back in Oz, can;t bring her here because of her Dementia and Diabetes, and you are right when you say it causes deep family divisions.

 

 

Thank you for sharing. I can feel the pain that still exists in your post. It's hard to forget those who turn their backs when people need them most but I guess they have their own way of dealing with situations and maybe have their own issues. That is my conclusion from my own family. 

Your story is a powerful message to all those who find themselves associated with addiction directly or indirectly. 

 

[Thai Ron]

13 hours ago, transam said:

I can assure you I am not Warren Mitchell, so I have no idea why you have referred to me as either. Usually folk who do that sort of stuff have lost...

 

I am in fact English which many members here will confirm if it is important to you...

 

Clumsy, never clumsy, just pointless arguing with blind folk that know nothing...

 

Obviously, I know a great deal more than you who labours under the illusion that there are "zillions" of immigrants fleecing the benefits system when he hasn't been back to the UK to see for himself in donkey's years.

 

Assertions made all the more asinine by the fact that you, yourself, are a de facto immigrant in Thailand

[anon789561]

555 every time i log onto TVF seems to be Thai Ron and Transam bickering about something. Go meet for a beer 5555

[transam]

16 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

 

Obviously, I know a great deal more than you who labours under the illusion that there are "zillions" of immigrants fleecing the benefits system when he hasn't been back to the UK to see for himself in donkey's years.

 

Assertions made all the more asinine by the fact that you, yourself, are a de facto immigrant in Thailand

How do you know I haven't been back in donkey's years.....?

 

I am not an immigrant in LOS, my visa states NON immigrant, which means I am not an immigrant in LOS and can be turfed out out will....Now you really should think a bit more about stuff......

[Thai Ron]

Just now, transam said:

I am not an immigrant in LOS, my visa states NON immigrant, which means I am not an immigrant in LOS and can be turfed out out will....Now you really should think a bit more about stuff......

 

You don't know what "de facto" means, do you?

Quelle suprise

[transam]

9 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

555 every time i log onto TVF seems to be Thai Ron and Transam bickering about something. Go meet for a beer 5555

Nooooo.......I would prefer.............................alone....

[KiChakayan]

12 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

555 every time i log onto TVF seems to be Thai Ron and Transam bickering about something. Go meet for a beer 5555

TR's problem is that he reads the first five words of a sentence, jumps to conclusions and shoots from the hip. Troll might be too strong, but definitely useless, boring...

[transam]

3 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

TR's problem is that he reads the first five words of a sentence, jumps to conclusions and shoots from the hip. Troll might be too strong, but definitely useless, boring...

A newbie speaks with a couple of weeks of TVF knowledge.....Hmmmm.....Another reincarnated one....?

 

[transam]

11 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

 

You don't know what "de facto" means, do you?

Quelle suprise

A couple of weee questions for you...

1. Why did you refer to me as Warren Mitchel..?

2. How do you know when I last went back to the UK...?

 

Go for it....

[Thai Ron]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

A couple of weee questions for you...

1. Why did you refer to me as Warren Mitchel..?

2. How do you know when I last went back to the UK...?

 

Go for it....

 

1. Your bigoted attitude

2. I asked you 3 times about the last time you'd been back to Blighty - 3 times you deflected the question which suggests that you haven't been back recently and that everything you spout about immigrants in the UK is based on what you've read in a tabloid rather than what you've seen with your own two eyes.

 

Did you Google "de facto"?

Edited October 4, 2017 by Thai Ron

[KiChakayan]

15 minutes ago, transam said:

A newbie speaks with a couple of weeks of TVF knowledge.....Hmmmm.....Another reincarnated one....?

 

You may be slow to see what's glaringly obvious... The ugly picture.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

 

1. Your bigoted attitude

2. I asked you 3 times about the last time you'd been back to Blighty - 3 times you deflected the question which suggests that you haven't been back recently and that everything you spout about immigrants in the UK is based on what you've read in a tabloid rather than what you've seen with your own two eyes.

 

Did you Google "de facto"?

Well I find your No.1 a derogatory comment, your No.2 is an assumption for something that is none of your business..In fact your stuff aimed at me is purely guess work....

[transam]

1 minute ago, KiChakayan said:

You may be slow to see what's glaringly obvious... The ugly picture.

Thanks for pointing it out "newbie".......

[Thai Ron]

Just now, transam said:

Well I find your No.1 a derogatory comment, your No.2 is an assumption for something that is none of your business..In fact your stuff aimed at me is purely guess work....

 

Hardly derogatory.

Your comments are clearly anti-immigrant.

That's glaringly obvious