Trump’s ‘God Bless the USA’ Bibles Were Made in China, Raising Eyebrows

[webfact]

Analysis: Russia throws North Korea lifeline to stymie regime change

By Andrew Osborn

 

A guard walks along a platform past signs, which read "Russia" (L) and "DPRK"(Democratic People's Republic of Korea), at the border crossing between Russia and North Korea in the settlement of Tumangan, North Korea July 18, 2014. REUTERS/Yuri Maltsev/Files

 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia is quietly boosting economic support for North Korea to try to stymie any U.S.-led push to oust Kim Jong Un as Moscow fears his fall would sap its regional clout and allow U.S. troops to deploy on Russia's eastern border.

 

Though Moscow wants to try to improve battered U.S.-Russia relations in the increasingly slim hope of relief from Western sanctions over Ukraine, it remains strongly opposed to what it sees as Washington's meddling in other countries' affairs, according to Russian diplomats and analysts familiar with the Kremlin's thinking.

 

Russia is already angry about a build-up of U.S.-led NATO forces on its western borders in Europe and does not want any replication on its Asian flank, the sources added.

 

Yet while Russia has an interest in protecting North Korea, which started life as a Soviet satellite state, it is not giving Pyongyang a free pass: it backed tougher United Nations sanctions against North Korea over its nuclear tests last month.

 

At the same time Moscow is playing a fraught double game, by quietly offering North Korea a slender lifeline to help insulate it from U.S.-led efforts to isolate it economically.

 

A Russian company began routing North Korean internet traffic this month, giving Pyongyang a second connection with the outside world besides China.

 

Bilateral trade more than doubled to $31.4 million in the first quarter of 2017, due mainly to what Moscow said was higher oil product exports, according to Russia's ministry for the development of the Far East.

 

At least eight North Korean ships that left Russia with fuel cargoes this year have returned home despite officially declaring other destinations, a ploy U.S. officials say is often used to undermine sanctions against Pyongyang.

 

And Russia, which shares a short land border with North Korea, has also resisted U.S.-led efforts to repatriate tens of thousands of North Korean workers whose remittances help keep the country's hard line leadership afloat.

 

"The Kremlin really believes the North Korean leadership should get additional assurances and confidence that the United States is not in the regime change business," Andrey Kortunov, head of the Russian International Affairs Council, a think-tank close to the Russian Foreign Ministry, told Reuters.

 

"The prospect of regime change is a serious concern. The Kremlin understands that (U.S. President Donald) Trump is unpredictable. They felt more secure with Barack Obama that he would not take any action that would explode the situation, but with Trump they don't know."

 

Trump, who mocks North Korean leader Kim Jong Un as a "rocket man" on a suicide mission, told the United Nations General Assembly last month he would "totally destroy" the country if necessary.

 

He has also said Kim Jong Un and his foreign minister "won't be around much longer" if they made good on a threat to develop a nuclear-tipped missile capable of reaching the United States.

 

STRATEGIC BORDER

 

To be sure, Beijing's economic ties to Pyongyang still dwarf Moscow's and China remains a more powerful player in the unfolding nuclear crisis. But while Beijing is cutting back trade as it toughens its line on its neighbour's ballistic missile and nuclear programme, Russia is increasing its support.

 

People familiar with elements of Kremlin thinking say that is because Russia flatly opposes regime change in North Korea.

 

Russian politicians have repeatedly accused the United States of plotting so-called colour revolutions across the former Soviet Union and any U.S. talk of unseating any leader for whatever reason is politically toxic in Moscow.

 

Russia's joint military exercises with neighbouring Belarus last month gamed a scenario where Russian forces put down a Western-backed attempt for part of Belarus to break away.

 

With Russia due to hold a presidential election in March, politicians are again starting to fret about Western meddling.

 

In 2011, President Vladimir Putin accused then U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton of trying to stir up unrest in Russia and he has made clear that he wants the United States to leave Kim Jong Un alone.

 

While condemning Pyongyang for what he called provocative nuclear tests, Putin told a forum last month in the eastern Russian port of Vladivostok that he understood North Korea's security concerns about the United States and South Korea.

 

Vladivostok, a strategic port city of 600,000 people and headquarters to Russia's Pacific Fleet, is only about 100 km (60 miles) from Russia's border with North Korea.

 

Russia would be fiercely opposed to any U.S. forces deploying nearby in a reunited Korea.

 

"(The North Koreans) know exactly how the situation developed in Iraq," Putin told the economic forum, saying Washington had used the false pretext that Baghdad had weapons of mass destruction to destroy the country and its leadership.

 

"They know all that and see the possession of nuclear weapons and missile technology as their only form of self-defence. Do you think they're going to give that up?"

 

Analysts say Russia's view is that North Korea's transformation into a nuclear state, though incomplete, is permanent and irreversible and the best the West can hope for is for Pyongyang to freeze elements of its programme.

 

NOTHING PERSONAL

 

Kortunov, the think-tank chief close to the Russian Foreign Ministry, said he did not think the Kremlin's defence of Kim Jong Un was based on any personal affection or support for North Korea's leadership, likening Moscow's pragmatic backing to that it has given Syria's President Bashar al-Assad.

 

Moscow's position was motivated by a belief the status quo made Russia a powerful geopolitical player in the crisis because of its close ties to Pyongyang, Kortunov said, just as Russia's support for Assad has gifted it greater Middle East clout.

 

He said Moscow knew it would lose regional leverage if Kim Jong Un fell, much as its Middle East influence was threatened when Islamist militants looked like they might overthrow Assad in 2015.

 

"It's a very delicate balancing act," said Kortunov.

 

"On the one hand, Russia doesn't want to deviate from the line of its partners and mostly from China's position on North Korea which is getting tougher. But on the other hand, politicians in Moscow understand that the current situation and level of interaction between Moscow and Pyongyang puts Russia in a league of its own compared to China."

 

If the United States were to remove Kim Jong Un by force, he said Russia could face a refugee and humanitarian crisis on its border, while the weapons and technology Pyongyang is developing could fall into even more dangerous non-state hands.

 

So despite Russia giving lukewarm backing to tighter sanctions on Pyongyang, Putin wants to help its economy grow and is advocating bringing it into joint projects with other countries in the region.

 

"We need to gradually integrate North Korea into regional cooperation," Putin told the Vladivostok summit last month.

 

(Editing by David Clarke)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-10-05

[Cats4ever]

I am unlikely to be made foreign minister of anywhere in the foreseeable future. Nevertheless, it is not only Russia, but China that does not want possible US forces on their border. US forces are in S. Korea to provide some protection against the North. Can't they have a quiet and private discussion that locks in US agreement to not station troops anywhere in S. Korea if the North goes under? Agreements anf guarantees etc. could be discussed. If the crazy North K. government changes or Korea is reunited minus the Kims and their pals, surely a modus operandi could be agreed?

[craigt3365]

12 minutes ago, Cats4ever said:

I am unlikely to be made foreign minister of anywhere in the foreseeable future. Nevertheless, it is not only Russia, but China that does not want possible US forces on their border. US forces are in S. Korea to provide some protection against the North. Can't they have a quiet and private discussion that locks in US agreement to not station troops anywhere in S. Korea if the North goes under? Agreements anf guarantees etc. could be discussed. If the crazy North K. government changes or Korea is reunited minus the Kims and their pals, surely a modus operandi could be agreed?

Agreed!  I'm sure if NK got rid of their nuclear weapons and quit invading the South, the US would reduce it's military presence there.  The US is, after all, there by invitation of SK.  And can be asked to leave at any time.  Just like has happened in other countries.  For now, seems SK is happy with their presence.  Sadly.

[Jonmarleesco]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Moscow ... remains strongly opposed to what it sees as Washington's meddling in other countries' affairs

From Russia with Love. Doesn't Putin also meddle in other countries' affairs?

[Grouse]

Putin is being entirely rational.

 

I don't fancy taking him on at chess (or Risk)

[craigt3365]

15 minutes ago, Jonmarleesco said:

From Russia with Love. Doesn't Putin also meddle in other countries' affairs?

Just a bit. LOL. Here's but one.

 

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/bosnia-herzegovina/2017-09-06/russias-bosnia-gambit?cid=nlc-fa_twofa-20170907

Russia's Bosnia Gambit

Intrigue in the Balkans

[Publicus]

 

U.S. forces are in SK and Japan for defensive purposes only. The forces could not sustain themselves even if the U.S. wanted to invade NK or China or Russia. 

 

Given missiles, naval and air fleets, Beijing knows it is being bogus to express fears of U.S. ground forces at the Yalu River should NK collapse and if U.S. forces were to rush in from SK. Putin and Russia are likewise creating bogeymen and strawmen to be concerned about U.S. ground forces getting any closer to Russia's border. 

 

In that region of the world it would be air-sea combat primarily rather than land combat carrying the load. The bottom line is that without an obvious massive buildup over many months U.S. forces in the region could not sustain the huge burden of offensive operations over there.

 

The Kim Dynasty and NK people don't like China or the Chinese. The Kim Dynasty has always been the little brother of the Russians who installed Kim I then gave Kim the green light to invade SK. Moscow lost influence to Beijing when the USSR went under.

 

The heat from Washington is causing Putin and Xi Jinping to angle against each other and to compete for the upper hand in sustaining NK. Russia and China have had ongoing border disputes and competition for centuries and this only adds to the tension and mutual distrust over it all. This is bad news for the bad guyz which is good. 

[Publicus]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Putin is being entirely rational.

 

I don't fancy taking him on at chess (or Risk)

 

Putin never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail.

 

Or have shot.

 

Since Ukraine Putin's chessboard is on the floor and the pieces scattered. Beijing took Putin for a ride on the massive gas contract Putin was desperate to sign. With the prices Beijing imposed on Putin the little guy found it hard to sign while his hands were still in the air. The Boyz in Beijing got Putin's watch and wallet too.

[Tchooptip]

I learn for the first time that North Korea has a border with Russia... thank you TV.... 17 km only ..OK I am excusable 

 

 "The border between Russia and North Korea, according to the official Russian definition, consists of 17 kilometres (11 mi) of "terrestrial border" and 22.1 km (12 nautical miles) of "maritime border". It is the shortest of the international borders of Russia."   ^{c/p Wikipedia}

 

 

[champers]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Putin is being entirely rational.

 

I don't fancy taking him on at chess (or Risk)

Or Judo.

[Rimmer]

Some inflammatory posts have been removed also name calling posts.

[sirmud63]

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

Putin is being entirely rational.

 

I don't fancy taking him on at chess (or Risk)

 

Try Judo Goussy!

 

Do let us know how you get on 

[IAMHERE]

"Bilateral trade more than doubled to $31.4 million in the first quarter of 2017, due mainly to what Moscow said was higher oil product exports, "

 

That doesn't seem to be very much to me. What is that, about one million barrels of oil or less at todays prices?

[Publicus]

 

Putin is working to try to capitalize on the fact Boyz in Beijing know that they will catch equal blame for any worse mess that could occur on the Korean peninsula and in the region should the NK curse become worse or even acute. The entire region from Japan to Australia to India will put the collar on CCP Boyz in Beijing if there might be a failure to deal successfully with Kim III.

 

Acting separately and individually each Putin and Trump have outmaneuvered Xi Jinping on regional strategy and tactics. We see no evidence whatsoever Beijing is prepared to become a dominant regional power. So while Putin continues to try to limit and undermine the USA Putin is also stiff arming Beijing while buddying up to Kim III. Putin traveled to Pyongyang last year while Kim and Xi haven't met nor does either of 'em care to meet....

 

In this volatile environment, China’s continued support of a regime widely seen as a state sponsor of terrorism and a major threat to peace in the region will only damage Beijing’s international image and undermine relations with most of its important trade partners – South Korea, Japan and the US, among others.

 

China may now realise that continued inaction on North Korea conflicts with its aspiring international clout and contradicts its national interest. Kim’s weapons of mass destruction pose the same risk to China as they do to South Korea, Japan or the United States.

 

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/2075170/north-korea-loses-its-use-china-loses-its-patience

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Publicus
Prune

[Publicus]

 

Daniel Pinkston is professor of international relations at the Seoul campus of Troy University who suggests that....

 

playing neighboring nations off one other for their respective favors is not a new North Korean tactic. It has manipulated China and Russia for its own ends in the past.

"That sort of back-and-forth was easier to pull off in the Cold War, but they seem to be trying to capitalize on their relations with Russia now that China has become more distant," the expert underlined. "And I think it is clear that North Korea will take whatever it can get in terms of political, diplomatic or military support, as well as resources."

http://www.dw.com/en/russia-steps-up-north-korea-support-to-constrain-us/a-38867861

 

 

CCP Boyz have yet to figure whether they are coming or going in all of this. Twice now since August PLA and Air Force have conducted live antimissile exercises at the Yellow Sea across from NK. The radical shift comes after years of the Boyz hollering against the U.S. Patriot system, the Aegis missile defense and Thaad going into SK. Kim can after all fire off his missiles in either or any direction which Putin and Xi are well aware of.

[Stargeezr]

If Putin and his other government leaders are so rational,  Why is Russia still in the Crimea part of Ukraine, and the Eastern part of Ukraine, or have you all forgotten that war that is still on going. Blind , Deaf  and forgetful, are we?

Geezer,

[Scott]

Please stay on the topic of North Korea and Russian assistance to them.

 

[Trouble]

Seems to me what Putin is really worried about is the fact that if countries bordering Russia become more democratic and open to the West it will weaken his own status in Russia. Even with US troops on the North Korean border, an unlikely scenario, just like having them in the Baltic, etc. poses no direct threat to Russia.  Putin, while allowing interaction and travel with the West by Russians, retains iron fisted rule of Russia. Having a buffer like the DPRK, Belarus, some of the former Yugoslav republics, Ukraine, et al, the culture and politics of the West remains an arms length away. Putin isn't worried about outright military action against Russia, he is worried about the influence of open societies against his rather closed regime. Last thing he wants is for his people to fall under the influence of more open societies. That's why he is willing to support dictators like Kim who rule with a heavy hand. Every country run by a heavy handed dictator is more than willing to support other dictators. It helps keep the status quo.