Partner wants to put house in my name

[Eloquent pilgrim]

18 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not complicated at all.

Standard practice in most countries.

Often known as leasehold as opposed to freehold.

Best practice is rent the land or have an Usufruct on it.

 

 

 

 

FWIW I own a maisonette in the U.K. The land lease still has 925 years to run

 

If I wanted I could have ownership of the house we are building, I have an Usufruct on the land so probably will not bother to claim ownership. I have evidence of paying for all construction so it would be no problem.

What are you talking about, “Standard practice in most countries.
Often known as leasehold as opposed to freehold” 

 

…. we are not talking about most countries, we are discussing ownership of houses and land in Thailand ….. so tell me how a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand without owning the land, as you have previously told me that they can do ….. or are you now admitting that they can only own by leasehold and not own by  freehold which was my original point for which you told me that I was clearly mistaken

 

come on, I am interested in all aspects of this, so please tell me how a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand without owning the land ...... everyone wants to know ??✌️✌️ 

[jenny2017]

14 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

What are you talking about, “Standard practice in most countries.
Often known as leasehold as opposed to freehold” 

 

…. we are not talking about most countries, we are discussing ownership of houses and land in Thailand ….. so tell me how a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand without owning the land, as you have previously told me that they can do ….. or are you now admitting that they can only own by leasehold and not own by  freehold which was my original point for which you told me that I was clearly mistaken

 

come on, I am interested in all aspects of this, so please tell me how a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand without owning the land ...... everyone wants to know ??✌️✌️ 

But you can point at your house when you show it to your mates, and dudes that it's your house. The little problem that you're not allowed to enter the land is worth a new thread though...

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

What are you talking about, “Standard practice in most countries.
Often known as leasehold as opposed to freehold” 

 

…. we are not talking about most countries, we are discussing ownership of houses and land in Thailand ….. so tell me how a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand without owning the land, as you have previously told me that they can do ….. or are you now admitting that they can only own by leasehold and not own by  freehold which was my original point for which you told me that I was clearly mistaken

 

come on, I am interested in all aspects of this, so please tell me how a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand without owning the land ...... everyone wants to know ??✌️✌️ 

In old time the wooden houses were removable – could easily be taken apart and assembled somewhere else, some were/are even fold-able – so you can own a house and place it on some land you have a right to use.

 

To be owner of a house, you need to build it, or buy one that has been build separate to land ownership, you may for example have a Superfices Property Right – a foreigner can own a house in Thailand, I legally own my house, but I don't own the land under my house – please see my previous post in this thread...

 

Quote

Superficies and land lease

The right of superficies can be registered as a separate right or in combination with a land lease. Normally superficies is used by someone (e.g. a foreigner) who acquires a lease interest in titled land and uses the land for the construction of a building. A registered right of superficies is a strong supporting right to a lease agreement, e.g. you could loose your lease (termination upon death) but your superficies remains in full force and can be transferred to your heirs.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, BEVUP said:

That's while married but what about before

I was at my old place (or should I say my wifes ) watching a prospective buyer look at the property ( whilst I was stripping some stuff off ) & them asking wife questions

But the result was they did not buy as there was a Usufrut on the property & it has not been sold to this date 

 As I clearly said in my prior post, the ability of spouses to unilaterally void contracts they enter into while married and for one year after the end of any such marriage only applies to contracts they enter into while married.

 

As I said before, it does NOT apply to contracts that the same couple may have executed PRIOR to getting legally married at a later date. Those kinds of contracts would remain binding on both parties, and aren't given an "exit clause" under Thai marital law.

 

The potential problem, however, is that I suspect most couples don't get to the point of entering into a usufruct until AFTER they have been married. And at that point, that legal agreement doesn't really provide any protection against an angry wife in a failing marriage, though it would provide protection from the wife's family in the event she was to pass away sometime during the marriage.

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

On 10/7/2017 at 8:41 PM, steve187 said:

bitter

Yeah, a bitter reality.

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

What are you talking about, “Standard practice in most countries.
Often known as leasehold as opposed to freehold” 

 

…. we are not talking about most countries, we are discussing ownership of houses and land in Thailand ….. so tell me how a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand without owning the land, as you have previously told me that they can do ….. or are you now admitting that they can only own by leasehold and not own by  freehold which was my original point for which you told me that I was clearly mistaken

 

come on, I am interested in all aspects of this, so please tell me how a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand without owning the land ...... everyone wants to know ??✌️✌️ 

Thailand's legal system does not exist in isolation. Most of it is very similar to that in other countries.

 

You don't seem to bother to read (or can't understand) what has been written by myself and other posters.

 

You (a foreigner) can build and own a house.

 

You (a foreigner) can not own the land.

 

 You (a foreigner) need the permission of the person who owns or controls (Usufruct) the land to build.

 

You (a foreigner) would do best to have a lease or Usufruct on the land.

You (a foreigner) DO NOT NEED ANY SUCH CONTRACT TO OWN THE HOUSE.

 

AFIK Thailand does not have any formal ownership documents for houses apart from condominiums.

 

Quote

Sale agreements or construction permits provide additional evidence of building ownership. Remember that a landowner cannot sell you a building on their land unless they own the building.

Edited October 9, 2017 by sometimewoodworker

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, Jimbob1 said:

I have 3 blocks of land with 2 in Korat, (one has a house I built on it and the other I use a a market garden) the 3rd is in Buriram .

 

My wife on my last trip across to Buriram was talking with her brother living across the road and he said seeing as it is a vacant block the Government want to register a house number on it so they have records of who owns what in the Provence and want me to build a small structure on it and register the house in my name ... ???  

Having her brother suggest this makes me suspicious as he is less than honest on many occasions and I always look for the 'angle' ... 

My wife says it is because she has all our possessions registered now in her name that we put this one in mine ??? Doesn't help as I still have a feeling their is something dodgy going on .... 

 

I may be totally wrong but it wouldn't be the first time I have been stung by this plick! 

My Mrs has about 5 land parcels in the village, purchased off what crumbs I have given her over the years. 4 of the land parcels are being used to grow rubber trees, rice, sugar cane and palm oil, the 5th is vacant. I recall she saying to me about 6 months ago that the government were coming to town to have a meeting, and if they saw land that wasn't being used, they would reclaim it. She doesn't have Chanote, the names is signed over as the new purchaser and witnessed and verified by the local mayor that she has purchased the land.

 

As the land was vacant, she said she was going to get 4 truckloads of red soil dumped in a pile at the front, in full street view and build a little hut, so as to show it was being occupied, and my reply was, your land, your pocket, you do what you gotta do girl.

 

Could this be what your Mrs's brother might be going on about ?

[greenchair]

I'm a bit confused. 

So are you saying, she wants you to buy the house. Why would you? ?she already owns it. In the event you seperated, forget about getting your share whether you owned it or not. The lawyers would cost more than the house. 

 

Or, she just wants to transfer "her" house to your name for no particular reason. 

Sorry to be cynical, there's something fishy there. 

Thais just don't sign over property for nothing. 

[LannaGuy]

11 hours ago, BEVUP said:

As mentioned what about loan shark 

Maybe they think ok since a farang will back his wife if the F&#@k up

 

Maybe but very risky if I were the farang I'd take the chanot and leave for awhile. She can't sell it and loan shark can't enforce it. Are you sure this is what happened?

[LannaGuy]

45 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

My Mrs has about 5 land parcels in the village, purchased off what crumbs I have given her over the years. 4 of the land parcels are being used to grow rubber trees, rice, sugar cane and palm oil, the 5th is vacant. I recall she saying to me about 6 months ago that the government were coming to town to have a meeting, and if they saw land that wasn't being used, they would reclaim it. She doesn't have Chanote, the names is signed over as the new purchaser and witnessed and verified by the local mayor that she has purchased the land.

 

As the land was vacant, she said she was going to get 4 truckloads of red soil dumped in a pile at the front, in full street view and build a little hut, so as to show it was being occupied, and my reply was, your land, your pocket, you do what you gotta do girl.

 

Could this be what your Mrs's brother might be going on about ?

 

This means she does not have the full chanot.

[greenchair]

12 hours ago, Jimbob1 said:

Have 2 blocks in Korat ... one has a house I built on it and the other has vegie gardens .... 

My wife has chanote on both and registered house on one ... 

 

It is the other block we have in Buriram that we own with wife name on chanote and no house as yet ... but we have been advised the gov wants to register blocks with house numbers and need to put a temp structure on it ( just shack and hong nam would surfice) and family are suggesting I put that in my name ??? WHY ?

Is it possible the land was aquired not quite legally? 

As is often the case these days. 

Then if the house is in your name, you will be the culprit??

Or perhaps it is a tax thing. 

If the land is already in her name, let the structure be also. 

Beware of Thais bearing gifts. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Thailand's legal system does not exist in isolation. Most of it is very similar to that in other countries.

 

You don't seem to bother to read (or can't understand) what has been written by myself and other posters.

 

You (a foreigner) can build and own a house.

 

You (a foreigner) can not own the land.

 

 You (a foreigner) need the permission of the person who owns or controls (Usufruct) the land to build.

 

You (a foreigner) would do best to have a lease or Usufruct on the land.

You (a foreigner) DO NOT NEED ANY SUCH CONTRACT TO OWN THE HOUSE.

 

AFIK Thailand does not have any formal ownership documents for houses apart from condominiums.

 

I do bother to read comments but admit to not fully understanding, which is what I am trying to do. You told me that what I have is an Or Chor 2 Title, which carries the freehold right to my condo, but you did not tell me what the Title is that a foreigner has that gives them the freehold right to a house on land that they cannot own.

 

I said originally that I thought that you needed to lease the land in order to be secure, you say that “you would do best to” implying that it is not necessary; but even if you do, surely you don't have freehold title if the land is being leased, is that not so ??

 

I believe there have been cases where the “owners” of land have given permission to build only for it to be discovered that the Chanote had been given as security to a third party, on a loan that they then defaulted on, allowing the land to be repossessed, and consequently anything on the land. So, is there a Title that protects a foreigner from this ?

[BEVUP]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Maybe but very risky if I were the farang I'd take the chanot and leave for awhile. She can't sell it and loan shark can't enforce it. Are you sure this is what happened?

So why can't the Loan Shark enforce it - no different then a bank if the titles signed over

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I do bother to read comments but admit to not fully understanding, which is what I am trying to do. You told me that what I have is an Or Chor 2 Title, which carries the freehold right to my condo, but you did not tell me what the Title is that a foreigner has that gives them the freehold right to a house on land that they cannot own.

AFIK There is no title to houses 

ownership is established by things including Construction permission. And payments 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I said originally that I thought that you needed to lease the land in order to be secure, you say that “you would do best to” implying that it is not necessary; but even if you do, surely you don't have freehold title if the land is being leased, is that not so ??

I don't really understand your usageof the term "freehold title" related to a house as it usually relates to land

 

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I believe there have been cases where the “owners” of land have given permission to build only for it to be discovered that the Chanote had been given as security to a third party, on a loan that they then defaulted on, allowing the land to be repossessed, and consequently anything on the land. So, is there a Title that protects a foreigner from this ?

No. However an Usufruct on the land should, and in most cases will, protect your interests as long as you are not currently married to the owner.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

AFIK There is no title to houses 

ownership is established by things including Construction permission. And payments 

 

 

I don't really understand your usageof the term "freehold title" related to a house as it usually relates to land

 

No. However an Usufruct on the land should, and in most cases will, protect your interests as long as you are not currently married to the owner.

Okay thanks, I think I understand; so a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand, but can only ever have leasehold tenancy because he can never own the land ……  

[JPFIT]

17 hours ago, HerbalEd said:

Congratulations for it costing only 60K. I assume 60K baht, but ever $60K would be cheap.

No unfortunately it was 60 K sterling about 3 million THB

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

 

This means she does not have the full chanot.

Correct, there is a lot of land around Isaan that is not Chanote from my understanding, and most are waiting for the government to survey each parcel owned by the village people all around Isaan, then lift to the next level until it reaches Chanote (clear title) and then divide it amongst their families.

 

I personally own nothing, not interested, i.e. having a background in property from where I come from, if you do not have clear title, i.e. a Certificate of Title that is registered in your name at the Land Titles Office you won nothing, and we know in Thailand, farangs cannot own land, so its other investments for me, making the bacon so to speak and suites me fine. 

[KKr]

On 10/9/2017 at 2:22 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Usufructs are often lifetime, no 30 year limit,

leases can not be longer than 30 years.

Superficies can be contracted for life.
In case you are the documented and registered owner of the house, that should suffice.

[KKr]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 As I clearly said in my prior post, the ability of spouses to unilaterally void contracts they enter into while married and for one year after the end of any such marriage only applies to contracts they enter into while married.

 

As I said before, it does NOT apply to contracts that the same couple may have executed PRIOR to getting legally married at a later date. Those kinds of contracts would remain binding on both parties, and aren't given an "exit clause" under Thai marital law.

 

The potential problem, however, is that I suspect most couples don't get to the point of entering into a usufruct until AFTER they have been married. And at that point, that legal agreement doesn't really provide any protection against an angry wife in a failing marriage, though it would provide protection from the wife's family in the event she was to pass away sometime during the marriage.

 

 

 

what underlines that it is sensible to make a pre-nuptial and register it together with the marriage.
(arguably, it could be harder to get a pre-nup agreed to by both parties after registering.)

[theguyfromanotherforum]

The way I solved this is I just moved to my wife's house.

[digbeth]

22 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

But you can point at your house when you show it to your mates, and dudes that it's your house. The little problem that you're not allowed to enter the land is worth a new thread though...

 

Thailand has specific law about access to property or right-of-way, especially land-locked neighbor, which after going to court or through agreement, will be recorded on the deeds just like a usufruct, in fact, having a usufruct on the land probably grants rights of access 

[sometimewoodworker]

On 10/10/2017 at 12:22 PM, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Okay thanks, I think I understand; so a foreigner can legally own a house in Thailand, but can only ever have leasehold tenancy because he can never own the land ……  

First: yes a foreigner can legally own a house 

Second, land: correct: the foreigner can never be the registered owner (there is a special case when the can be the owner but for less that a year and will never be registered as the owner)

 

Third: not completely correct.

a foreigner can lease the land or can have an Usufruct on the land.

 

With an Usufruct you are not a tenant. Most people would say that with a lease you are the lease holder not a tenant.

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

53 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

First: yes a foreigner can legally own a house 

Second, land: correct: the foreigner can never be the registered owner (there is a special case when the can be the owner but for less that a year and will never be registered as the owner)

 

Third: not completely correct.

a foreigner can lease the land or can have an Usufruct on the land.

 

With an Usufruct you are not a tenant. Most people would say that with a lease you are the lease holder not a tenant.

 

Okay thanks, all is clear (relatively) ….. I think I’ll stick with my Condo’s for now, leastways until I think that a 30 year lease will outlive me shuffling my feet into the next dimension  ??

 

[Jimbob1]

On 10/10/2017 at 12:07 PM, 4MyEgo said:

My Mrs has about 5 land parcels in the village, purchased off what crumbs I have given her over the years. 4 of the land parcels are being used to grow rubber trees, rice, sugar cane and palm oil, the 5th is vacant. I recall she saying to me about 6 months ago that the government were coming to town to have a meeting, and if they saw land that wasn't being used, they would reclaim it. She doesn't have Chanote, the names is signed over as the new purchaser and witnessed and verified by the local mayor that she has purchased the land.

 

As the land was vacant, she said she was going to get 4 truckloads of red soil dumped in a pile at the front, in full street view and build a little hut, so as to show it was being occupied, and my reply was, your land, your pocket, you do what you gotta do girl.

 

Could this be what your Mrs's brother might be going on about ?

Yes I think you are right here as we have the bill of sale and maybe not a full Chanote and need to have a small shack as you say and have that street number registered.

 

Will be back in Thailand next January so will get it all sorted then.