U.S. VP Pence leaves NFL game after players kneel during anthem

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

Blacks need to respect the country that has made them great. They'd be nothing without the USA. This is a country that allows them to become millionaires for throwing a ball around. 

Are you American?  Where did your ancestors hail from?  Probably white folks from Europe.  What job do you do?  Did you get your job thanks to your country allowing you to do it?   

 

Your argument is a bereft as an abandoned termite mound.

 

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

The players are 'irritated' according to CNN.  "Irritated"? for VPOTUS making a 'point' and they are not???   Hypocrites. 

Over-paid prima donnas should be thankful USA has given them and their families great careers. They are football players NOT politicians. Hypocrites. 

Are you saying, because they are professional sportsmen, they don't deserve the right (of every American) to peacefully protest?   Can janitors protest?   Can airline pilots protest?   Can piano players protest?   Oh sorry, you already answered that, ...only politicians can protest.

[Bill Miller]

3 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

some places NEED cops...funny you don't see the

players protesting this:

 

Chicago has suffered 503 gun homicides so far in 2017. With a population of over 2.7 million, the gun homicide rate is at just over 18 people per 100,000 residents.

 

Baltimore, however, has suffered 275 gun homicides with a population of just over 621,000, putting the homicide rate at more than 44 per 100,000.

 

The city is on track to break its all-time murder record originally set in 1992, when Baltimore had 100,000 more residents.

Another TV poster who cannot, or will not, understand that the NFL players are not protesting cops as such. They are protesting against cops who MURDER unarmed civilians with no repercussions.
309 black Americans were gunned down by police last year.
Unarmed black people were killed by police at 5x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015.
That is what is being protested.

 

[attrayant]

12 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

some places NEED cops...funny you don't see the

players protesting this:

 

Chicago has suffered 503 gun homicides so far in 2017. With a population of over 2.7 million, the gun homicide rate is at just over 18 people per 100,000 residents.

 

Baltimore, however, has suffered 275 gun homicides with a population of just over 621,000, putting the homicide rate at more than 44 per 100,000.

 

The city is on track to break its all-time murder record originally set in 1992, when Baltimore had 100,000 more residents.

 

Since a person isn't protesting every injustice, they shouldn't protest any injustice?  Really?

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Slip said:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/354476-ethics-watchdog-blasts-pence-for-use-of-government-travel-to

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

200,000 of the taxpayers money for a crass political showboat. Those hypocritical corrupt republicans! 

 

 

Pence is just following Donald's example of almost weekly trips on Air Force One to one of his resorts to play golf.  But Donald does some of his best tweeting  during his weekend golfing retreats....that's why he calls them working weekends vs golfing weekends.

 

Partial Quote from a Washington Post article

“The tone is set at the top,” said Noah Bookbinder, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a watchdog group that recently called for an investigation into Trump appointees’ travel. “When you have a president who is visiting his private resorts every weekend at great cost to taxpayers, it is not surprising that Cabinet members are using private jets to get to standard meetings.”

End Quote.

 

 

[Boon Mee]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Ah convenient 

Sums it up rather well don't you think? 

[Boon Mee]

Donald J. Trump‏บัญชีตัวจริง @realDonaldTrump

ติดตาม

I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country. I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.

He was given an order by the Commander-in-Chief.

You don't disobey the Commander-in-Chief  

[sirineou]

Perhaps if we all took a knee he would leave the country

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

'merkans have the right to free speech and the right to

protest......on their own time, and on their own dime.

 

nfl players are employees at their place of employment.

as such their "free speech" rights may be limited by

their contracts or simply instructions from their employer.

 

the first amendment protects citizens from restrictions

imposed by the government, does not necessarily apply

to private or employment settings.

 

if you research the nfl rulebook, there IS a clause requiring

players to stand for the anthem, with suspension or fine

resulting in failure to follow the written rules.

 

if the nfl fails to enforce their own rules, that is their

decision, but they will risk alienating a major portion

of their audience.

 

otherwise....well......what if a group of players decided

to do their own protest of racial integration by donning

KKK hoods during the anthem?   free speech m'kay!

As seems to be usual you have no idea what you are talking about. The NFL rulebook says nothing about the National Anthem.
The NFL Game Operations Manual does cover the situation, but couched in terms of "should" and "may", no "musts".
Per an article quoted in Time from Sports Illustrated:
"It’s important to note the use of the word “may” here. The NFL is not considering punishing fines on players or teams who choose to kneel or stay in the locker room during the national anthem, the spokesperson says."
It seems you misquoted the pertinent section anyway, stating that "..suspension or fine

resulting in failure to follow the written rules.", leaving out the all important "may".

Edited October 9, 2017 by Bill Miller

[boomerangutang]

19 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Donald J. Trump‏บัญชีตัวจริง @realDonaldTrump

ติดตาม

I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country. I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.

He was given an order by the Commander-in-Chief.

You don't disobey the Commander-in-Chief  

Let me see if I get what's happening.  The VP is told by the Dufus in Chief to go fly an expensive taxpayer-paid jet to a football game - in order to leave before the game starts, in order to make a vapid political statement.   You're behind that?

 

When Trump gets in a shit-fit and wants to bomb some city, everyone within earshot is required to do exactly what he says.  That's scary.  Even Republican politicians are admitting the prez is dangerously screwed mentally.  The US is in dire straits.  If this were an episode of Popeye, it would be time to pop the can of spinach.

 

The US has a dangerous, mean-spirited and stupid man at its helm.  It doesn't say much for the character or IQ-level of the people who voted for him.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by boomerangutang

[mike324]

NFL players have said it again and again, their protest is to show the inequality among treatments of blacks by the police, it has nothing to do with disrespecting VETS. Its plain and simple, how hard is it to understand.

 

Those that keep on saying NFL ratings are down, you guys just follow withever Trump says right without any fact checking? NFL ratings were not down until Trump told folks to boycott it.

 

Trump and their supporters are destroying American themselves instead of focusing on the bigger problems regarding such as healthcare and education.

[Thai Ron]

25 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Donald J. Trump‏บัญชีตัวจริง @realDonaldTrump

ติดตาม

I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country. I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.

He was given an order by the Commander-in-Chief.

You don't disobey the Commander-in-Chief  

Hail the Trump administration's ambassador to Thaivisa

[Jingthing]

trump-Pence divides the USA more than any hostile foreign power ever could. Not too surprising consider how trump got elected ... with the help of Russian dictator Putin. 

[FritsSikkink]

53 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Donald J. Trump‏บัญชีตัวจริง @realDonaldTrump

ติดตาม

I asked @VP Pence to leave stadium if any players kneeled, disrespecting our country. I am proud of him and @SecondLady Karen.

He was given an order by the Commander-in-Chief.

You don't disobey the Commander-in-Chief  

They said the same in Nazi Germany with Hitler.

[andersonat]

4 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Well, it was a good 'stunt' then wasn't it?

 

More focus on these unpatriotic multimillionaire  players...

 

 

BM  -  Do you think that the political/social requirement to stand during the playing of the National Anthem overrules the rights enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Publicus]

4 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

Blacks need to respect the country that has made them great. They'd be nothing without the USA. This is a country that allows them to become millionaires for throwing a ball around. 

 

Police are already proud they are in a country where they can turn traffic stops into homicides and get away with it.

[OMGImInPattaya]

2 hours ago, 55Jay said:

I searched "WH Official policy on NFL kneeling" but only found refs to Trump's earlier suggestion that NFL fans boycott.  I would like to think WH Counsel was able to convince Trump the 1st Amendment deserves the same regard as the 2nd one.

How did that work out for James Damore?

Edited October 9, 2017 by OMGImInPattaya

[Thai Ron]

4 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

Blacks need to respect the country that has made them great. They'd be nothing without the USA. This is a country that allows them to become millionaires for throwing a ball around. 

What an odious point of view.

I suppose centuries of oppression, denial of basic rights and countless other impediments to their advancement up until the 1960s helped make them great too.

[LannaGuy]

2 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Are you American?  Where did your ancestors hail from?  Probably white folks from Europe.  What job do you do?  Did you get your job thanks to your country allowing you to do it?   

 

Your argument is a bereft as an abandoned termite mound.

 

Are you saying, because they are professional sportsmen, they don't deserve the right (of every American) to peacefully protest?   Can janitors protest?   Can airline pilots protest?   Can piano players protest?   Oh sorry, you already answered that, ...only politicians can protest.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by LannaGuy

[LannaGuy]

2 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Are you American?  Where did your ancestors hail from?  Probably white folks from Europe.  What job do you do?  Did you get your job thanks to your country allowing you to do it?   

 

Your argument is a bereft as an abandoned termite mound.

 

Are you saying, because they are professional sportsmen, they don't deserve the right (of every American) to peacefully protest?   Can janitors protest?   Can airline pilots protest?   Can piano players protest?   Oh sorry, you already answered that, ...only politicians can protest.

 

Do what they like in their own time.  They are PAID to undertake a function and whilst doing so should behave professionally.  What next?  Surgeons protesting while operating?  Dentists whilst drilling? 

 

It's ABSURD and America has gone 'PC Mad'

 

[LannaGuy]

2 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Another TV poster who cannot, or will not, understand that the NFL players are not protesting cops as such. They are protesting against cops who MURDER unarmed civilians with no repercussions.
309 black Americans were gunned down by police last year.
Unarmed black people were killed by police at 5x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015.
That is what is being protested.

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by LannaGuy

[LannaGuy]

2 hours ago, mike324 said:

NFL players have said it again and again, their protest is to show the inequality among treatments of blacks by the police, it has nothing to do with disrespecting VETS. Its plain and simple, how hard is it to understand.

 

Those that keep on saying NFL ratings are down, you guys just follow withever Trump says right without any fact checking? NFL ratings were not down until Trump told folks to boycott it.

 

Trump and their supporters are destroying American themselves instead of focusing on the bigger problems regarding such as healthcare and education.

 

They are paid to do a JOB. protest as much as they like in their own time.  It's pathetic. What next?  an NFL player Christian fundamentalist has the right to protest Muslims by wearing a Hijab?     

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

That is what is being protested.

 

sure, but this is the cause of that, and is what needs to

be protested:

 

"Because detailed FBI data on crime can lag by several years, the most-cited statistics on this point refer to 2009 data. According to that data, out of all violent crimes in which someone was charged, black Americans were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the country’s 75 biggest counties — despite the fact that black Americans made up just 15 percent of the population in those places."

 

wanna lower the number of unarmed thugs shot by police?  maybe go protest in the areas in which violent crime is celebrated as a cultural achievement.  unless they're afraid they might get shot...

 

[ChouDoufu]

37 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

What next?  an NFL player Christian fundamentalist has the right to protest Muslims by wearing a Hijab?     

maybe, but take a knee for jesus and you're out.

[amvet]

2 hours ago, mike324 said:

NFL players have said it again and again, their protest is to show the inequality among treatments of blacks by the police, it has nothing to do with disrespecting VETS. Its plain and simple, how hard is it to understand.

 

Those that keep on saying NFL ratings are down, you guys just follow withever Trump says right without any fact checking? NFL ratings were not down until Trump told folks to boycott it.

 

Trump and their supporters are destroying American themselves instead of focusing on the bigger problems regarding such as healthcare and education.

Apparently it is very hard for the Vets, Police and EMS workers to understand it is not disrespecting them as they have all said so in many newspapers and online and Chicago Police Officers Take a Knee, and Get a Reprimand.  I guess it is only you who understands what the black players actually mean.  BTW is sitting and giving the black power salute during the National Anthem also innocent? 

[amvet]

9 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Except players aren't saying they don't like the USA.  They're peacefully protesting for 2 minutes against racial problems.  Trump, Pence and all the other dangerous dufuses in the WH are hammering wedges to exacerbate divisions among Americans, and their sledgehammers are made from lies.  Trump and his cohorts are doing more damage to the USA than any other entity in history.

 

Except none of the players are disrespecting the flag or police or frog breeding or mayonaise. 

Pence has as much wisdom as a bar of perfumed soap.  He's a danger to America.

What do you call sitting down or giving the black panther salute during the National Anthem if not disrespect? 

 

Jerry Jones Dallas owner, " We know that there is a serious debate in this country about those issues, but there is no question in my mind that the National Football League and the Dallas Cowboys are going to stand up for the flag. Just so we're clear. ...

 

our vice president, if in his opinion, there's disrespect of the flag then he should express himself however he wants to say. He's got rights, too. He felt that not standing for the flag is disrespectful. I do, too.

Edited October 9, 2017 by amvet

[gk10002000]

10 hours ago, amvet said:

Free speech works both ways.  Football players can say they don't like the USA and VP USA can say he does not like what the footballers are saying. 

The problem here is, this is NOT an issue about free speech.  The issue is about teamwork, unity.  When members of a group act in ways not in common with the team, the team suffers.  Protesting during the national anthem is just improper.  Not because it is the national anthem.  I don't want anybody to have to do anything that is arbitrarily pressured on them.  But if you have something to protest about, go join a protest group, form a society, create a web page, donate money to some cause, donate your time to helping that cause. So you were prejudiced against, put down, discriminated against, saw something the USA did that you didn't like? Join the club.  Life is not perfect.  But Don't now start saying you don't like the USA after all the opportunities it gave you.  You got football scholarships, you get paid reasonably well.  You don't have to sit and write, and create software code, or design complex engineering things as I and other technical people do.  Play the game, work on your team unity.  You are hurting your teams, and organizations.  I assure you many people, in measurable amounts will be spending less money watching football.  Good luck with your choices

[Andaman Al]

8 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

 

8 hours ago, bushwacker said:

Maybe the VP should take some action to stop the inequality instead of walking out in a huff.  Just saying ....

What inequality? 

 

Said by a white American  

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

Do what they like in their own time.  They are PAID to undertake a function and whilst doing so should behave professionally.  What next?  Surgeons protesting while operating?  Dentists whilst drilling? 

It's ABSURD and America has gone 'PC Mad'

Perhaps you'd like to write a handbook on where and when is the proper time to exercise one's first amendment rights.  You could co-write it with Trump Sr, that bastion of decency, ha ha ha.

 

If you were around at the time of the The Boston Tea Party, you would have advised the protesters to first check with King George (and/or administrative Red Coats in the vicinity), to see whether the time, place and manner of the protest met with their parameters for what constitutes a proper protest.  Wouldn't want to protest improperly, would we?

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Let me see if I get what's happening.  The VP is told by the Dufus in Chief to go fly an expensive taxpayer-paid jet to a football game - in order to leave before the game starts, in order to make a vapid political statement.   You're behind that?

Correct, and in the meantime whilst kicking up yet another shit storm and pitching Americans Vs Americans nobody is talking about the White Houses decision to stop birth control for women on employer insurance, nor are they talking about Trump's new demands on immigration, the wall and the Dreamers. Trump is a clever, nasty, devicive SOB (Presidentially accepted term of use) and what is even more astonishing than him being permitted to continue, the American people are totally duped and cannot see that the Trump administrations policies are splitting families, friends and a nation.

 

Personally I would stand at the national anthem because I would personally want to honour a nation that allows people the right to kneel during a national anthem. As a military man that is what I fought for, the right for freedom of expression. Remember all you Americans complaining about those kneeling for a voice against injustice, in the very national anthem that is being sung that you say the kneelers are disrupting the words at the end are

 

 "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave'

 

Well I see brave men kneeling, but maybe the "land of the free" needs to be taken out, as clearly under Trump, the USA is no longer the land of the free.

[ChouDoufu]

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Perhaps you'd like to write a handbook on where and when is the proper time to exercise one's first amendment rights. 

can i start?

 

i think i'd begin with this here quote:

 

" Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

 

and then i'd explain that "freedom of speech" applies when the GOVERNMENT is trying to restrict it, although even then, it's

not absolute.  see "yelling fire in crowded theater".  see "incitement

to riot".

 

and finally i'd mention that EMPLOYEES do NOT have a right

to free speech AT WORK.  employers CAN restrict your speech

at work, and potentially outside of work, depending on

contractual provisions.

 

HUH!  that was easy!  ..........next.