Stricter controls over firearms, fireworks and explosives

[wildewillie89]

Is there really a reason to have them here for most? Other than for the shooting range? If a 'responsible' owner, the gun will be in a safe. No person is sitting at their front door just waiting for a murderer to come and greet them with his gun ready. Once you are alerted to someone, it is too late to open a safe anyway. Common sense will protect you more in public than a gun. 

 

My father in law is in politics (carries a gun and even a vest/police escorts during election times), Mrs worked in the insurgency down south and her office has bullet holes, her job is entitled to a gun and she has done the training for a gun - still decides to have no gun. We flirted with the idea just for election times, but have a young family. Not worth the risk. Not sure why all these farang think they are such high risk. Enemies are just the potential odd small time thefts aren't they?

 

In terms of farming, it is called livestock guardian dogs to keep the outside animals out. My dogs will eat whatever comes on the land - whether chicken or cat as it is their job. In terms of security, dogs are a better bet. Good working dogs have significant more stopping power than a half trained person with a gun and will deter better also. With dogs, no chance of kids accidently killing themselves, suicides, higher risk of theft for people to steal the actual gun etc. 

 

Yes, restrictions should have been on locals too, but let's not get into some thinking the government is going to round us all up and kill us all lol. 

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by wildewillie89

[ozzydom]

6 hours ago, coconuthead said:

it's a good move keeping guns out of the hands of foreigners after what we saw with the old rabid aussie yesterday

Catch up c,head he is a Brit not an Oz.

[Bill Miller]

3 hours ago, Hanuman2547 said:

Actually a lot of non-US citizens can legally purchase firearms including handguns in the USA.  They, of course, must be in the USA legally.  

Not quite as easy as you make it sound. Also, per my previous post, there are impediments at the state level in some instances.
Massachusetts, e.g., makes it very difficult for an alien to get a permit. Not impossible, but they really gotta want it, and be very clean of record.
"An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit, admitted for lawful hunting or sporting purposes, certain official representatives of a foreign government, or a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business."

[18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B) and 922(y)(2); 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.32]

[Rhys]

... so what group is it... that fires their weapons in the air after drinking in white t-shirts...

 

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Rhys

[smudger1951]

I'd prefer to see a ban on farangs walking around with baseball bats and golf clubs which I have seen farangs with in Pattaya who think its a dangerous place but are themselves making it so.

[SpeakeasyThai]

3 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

When you've been the victim of a violent crime, you might think otherwise. 

 

Or I might learn how to stand up and  physically defend myself, instead of leading an unhealthy paranoid lifestyle arming myself to the teeth.

Edited October 13, 2017 by SpeakeasyThai

[elliss]

 

       Foreigners,  those nasty, unwashed visitors on  thirty day visa exempt .

        I actually  live here , this  is  now  my homeland ??. 555

Edited October 13, 2017 by elliss

[dendijk]

6 hours ago, abhaya said:

Can I still keep my "pocket rocket"?

Sextoys are illegal in Thailand since mankind. Get rid of it while you still can ?

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, eliotness said:

Everyone seems to be talking about handguns.  We live on a farm on the edge of a forest ( with no protected species ) and it would be useful to have either a good 22 airifle or rifle as we have many wild chickens eating our crops.  Are such weapons included in this government decree ?

 

All air guns capable of firing metal projectiles require permits under the existing law.  (Naturally .22 rimfire rifles do as well.)  So foreigners will be banned from owning air guns under the new law.  You should be aware that there are a lot of cheap, Chinese made, unregistered air guns in Thailand that are smuggled in.  Sellers will blythely tell you no permit is required and it is easy to buy the pellets.  However, possession of these items is an offence under the Firearms Act and will be subject to the new stiffer penalties.  It is impossible to register these air guns because they are illegally imported without import licences.      

 

[StevieAus]

7 hours ago, coconuthead said:

it's a good move keeping guns out of the hands of foreigners after what we saw with the old rabid aussie yesterday

No Aussie bashing please, I thought that guy only had a machete or some other harmless weapon !!

On the subject of the legislation it does not worry me as I have no interest in guns, but I am sure that the police in their normal efficient way will be ensuring full compliance by all nationalities.

[StevieAus]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

Is there really a reason to have them here for most? Other than for the shooting range? If a 'responsible' owner, the gun will be in a safe. No person is sitting at their front door just waiting for a murderer to come and greet them with his gun ready. Once you are alerted to someone, it is too late to open a safe anyway. Common sense will protect you more in public than a gun. 

 

My father in law is in politics (carries a gun and even a vest/police escorts during election times), Mrs worked in the insurgency down south and her office has bullet holes, her job is entitled to a gun and she has done the training for a gun - still decides to have no gun. We flirted with the idea just for election times, but have a young family. Not worth the risk. Not sure why all these farang think they are such high risk. Enemies are just the potential odd small time thefts aren't they?

 

In terms of farming, it is called livestock guardian dogs to keep the outside animals out. My dogs will eat whatever comes on the land - whether chicken or cat as it is their job. In terms of security, dogs are a better bet. Good working dogs have significant more stopping power than a half trained person with a gun and will deter better also. With dogs, no chance of kids accidently killing themselves, suicides, higher risk of theft for people to steal the actual gun etc. 

 

Yes, restrictions should have been on locals too, but let's not get into some thinking the government is going to round us all up and kill us all lol. 

 

Excellent advice now can you translate it into Thai please.

 

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

Is there really a reason to have them here for most? Other than for the shooting range? If a 'responsible' owner, the gun will be in a safe. No person is sitting at their front door just waiting for a murderer to come and greet them with his gun ready. Once you are alerted to someone, it is too late to open a safe anyway. Common sense will protect you more in public than a gun. 

 

My father in law is in politics (carries a gun and even a vest/police escorts during election times), Mrs worked in the insurgency down south and her office has bullet holes, her job is entitled to a gun and she has done the training for a gun - still decides to have no gun. We flirted with the idea just for election times, but have a young family. Not worth the risk. Not sure why all these farang think they are such high risk. Enemies are just the potential odd small time thefts aren't they?

 

In terms of farming, it is called livestock guardian dogs to keep the outside animals out. My dogs will eat whatever comes on the land - whether chicken or cat as it is their job. In terms of security, dogs are a better bet. Good working dogs have significant more stopping power than a half trained person with a gun and will deter better also. With dogs, no chance of kids accidently killing themselves, suicides, higher risk of theft for people to steal the actual gun etc. 

 

Yes, restrictions should have been on locals too, but let's not get into some thinking the government is going to round us all up and kill us all lol. 

 

 

[Blue Muton]

7 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

No Aussie bashing please,

 

The latest reports say that he now claims to be a Brit, but if that's the case he probably just picked up any bad habits by mixing with non New Zealander Antipodeans!

[Jimbo1964]

Absolutely right, ban foreigners from having weapons. After all they are always in the news for shooting people. You never hear of Thais using guns do you. 

[StevieAus]

3 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Yeah, but if he had a gun, I think Mr Somchai would be dead today..........that Aussie idiot came unhinged over a simple traffic accident.

According to the post by “ozzydom” your so called Aussie idiot is a Brit

Look forward to your retraction 

[taharkin]

7 hours ago, coconuthead said:

it's a good move keeping guns out of the hands of foreigners after what we saw with the old rabid aussie yesterday

so we need to ban farangs from owning machetes as well? what about portable power drills? great for opening coconuts if you don't have a machete, but still dangerous if they get into the wrong hands.

[JAG]

6 minutes ago, taharkin said:

so we need to ban farangs from owning machetes as well? what about portable power drills? great for opening coconuts if you don't have a machete, but still dangerous if they get into the wrong hands.

I think you will find that "opening coconuts" is an occupation reserved for Thais...

[grollies]

3 hours ago, connda said:

No, you can protect yourself, but you need to understand the consequences of doing so.  You can live in a home that has a firearm which is in a Thai resident's name, and if you used the firearm against an equally armed intruder, you are probably going to prison.  So your options are - injury or death via assault by a gun/lethal weapon wielding assailant breaking into your home, or protecting your family and your own life with deadly force.  In short: die today, or protect yourself to be jailed and live another day.
They'll be those who will argue that they can hide, call 911, plead with the armed assailant - but what I've seen here in Thailand is a complete lack of respect for the sanctity of life.  Life is cheap, and an armed assailant breaking into your home, as far as I'm concerned, is coming to do you and your family grievous bodily harm.  There are enough news articles available concerning the theme of an armed robber killing the occupants of a home for their valuables.  No witness, no problem, well except for the CCTV then these morons never seem to consider.
I could be wrong but I haven't heard of the equivalent of a "Castle Doctrine" here in Thailand, or laws regarding the use of deadly force in the face of a disparity of force, or using a gun on a machete/gun/knife/rebar/heavy object wielding attacker attacking you in your own home, so even a Thai native protecting themselves in their own home from an armed intruder attack that would lead to grievous bodily harm if not stopped could lead to a prison sentence.  What keeps one person from going to prison as opposed to another?  It's your status, your wealth, and your connections which really end up dictating the outcome.  Basically a coin flip.  And as a foreigner, it's a coin flip with a weighted coin. And with this new legislation, I'd say that unless you are very rich and connected your going to see prison time.  But then there is always paying blood money.  That's a different story.  
 

Or, after the event, we could get the backhoe started, dig a bloody big hole, dispose of the intruder........

[bangrak]

IMHO, this new law's main consequence will be an increase of illegally sold guns on the black market, police officers and officials seem to be quite active on. That when the new service weapons for police officers are starting to be delivered, possibly flooding the black market with an extra 100,000 handguns or more, what a timing...! 

[chrisinth]

8 hours ago, bander said:

Can I keep my baseball bat to protect myself against burglars? (sarcasm) 

As long as you don't tell them you keep the baseball bat for that purpose as they will get you for premeditated assault (non-sarcasm).

 

But I think that only works if they find the body.......................

[bangrak]

As in other countries I know, it is obviously easier for legislators to go after those legally owning some gun(s), as they are registered and their gun(s) too (...and blocking off persons wanting to purchase one legally), than to vote harsh laws to punish the sale and possession of black market guns...and to take the necessary measures to ensure those laws are strictly enforced.

Considering the 'quality' of many who sell guns on the black market in this country, it, alas, seems unlikely to happen, as it would 'antagonise' a large number of police officers and officials...

N.B.: It seems some random 'checks' on guns bought by officials, having the right(!) to buy/own (a restricted choice of) guns, had astonishing results: many, many of those guns being declared by the official to have been mislaid, or lost, ...and that 'explanation' seemingly being accepted on top of it, without further measure taken!    

Edited October 13, 2017 by bangrak

[fordguy61mi]

Will be good for the criminals to know they have nothing to fear breaking into the home of a lone farang. Very comforting. They're the only ones with guns.

[chrisinth]

My view on this is that if a person is going to register a firearm (in any country), they would also be law abiding in that they would not use that weapon for a crime. Simple logic as ballistics should be taken on the weapon as part of the registering.

 

So if it is true, and hasn't been misreported, the only thing this will do is to prevent a very few foreign people who legitimately have cause for self protection for themselves, family or property.

 

I am truly surprised that greater emphasis  has not been directed towards off-duty military and police officers carrying in public. Especially the pubers & clubbers.

 

Actually, no I'm not, not in the slightest surprised that law changes would not be more directed towards getting the guns off the streets instead of out of foreigner's homes. Sad & stupid.

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, connda said:

No, you can protect yourself, but you need to understand the consequences of doing so.  You can live in a home that has a firearm which is in a Thai resident's name, and if you used the firearm against an equally armed intruder, you are probably going to prison.  So your options are - injury or death via assault by a gun/lethal weapon wielding assailant breaking into your home, or protecting your family and your own life with deadly force.  In short: die today, or protect yourself to be jailed and live another day.
They'll be those who will argue that they can hide, call 911, plead with the armed assailant - but what I've seen here in Thailand is a complete lack of respect for the sanctity of life.  Life is cheap, and an armed assailant breaking into your home, as far as I'm concerned, is coming to do you and your family grievous bodily harm.  There are enough news articles available concerning the theme of an armed robber killing the occupants of a home for their valuables.  No witness, no problem, well except for the CCTV then these morons never seem to consider.
I could be wrong but I haven't heard of the equivalent of a "Castle Doctrine" here in Thailand, or laws regarding the use of deadly force in the face of a disparity of force, or using a gun on a machete/gun/knife/rebar/heavy object wielding attacker attacking you in your own home, so even a Thai native protecting themselves in their own home from an armed intruder attack that would lead to grievous bodily harm if not stopped could lead to a prison sentence.  What keeps one person from going to prison as opposed to another?  It's your status, your wealth, and your connections which really end up dictating the outcome.  Basically a coin flip.  And as a foreigner, it's a coin flip with a weighted coin. And with this new legislation, I'd say that unless you are very rich and connected your going to see prison time.  But then there is always paying blood money.  That's a different story.  
 

Technically you are entitled to use reasonable force to defend yourelf under Section 68 of the Penal Code.

 

Section 68. Self Defense

Whoever commits any act for the defense of his own right or other person's right in order to except from a danger arising out of violence contrary to the law and such danger to be imminent, if reasonably  committed under the circumstance, such act is a lawful defense, and such person shall not have guilt.

You are also entitled to use a gun registered in someone else's name, if you have a good reason, e.g. to defend yourself against an intruder who appears to be armed and intent on malice.

Other than that you are right.  The right to self defence is somewhat anemically worded and there is no Castle Defence doctrine or stand your ground law.  But at least it is not as bad as the UK and some other European countries where you are expected to sit and watch politely while intruders rape and murder your wife and children and ransack your home prior to torturing you and finishing you off.  Even if you have a gun for sport in those countries, you are not entilted to use it for self defence and it and the ammo must be securely locked up separately.   Thais are allowed to have guns for protection of life and property which is what it says on the permits for guns of calibers up to .38 or 9mm.  Even larger calibers, such as .45, 40, .44 and .357 with permits issued for sport I am told can be used for self defence in emergency.  Unlike the US the Thai courts have never been known to take issue with what type of ammo you used, e.g. hollow points. In the US people are scared of using hollow points in case some clever lawyer convinces a jury that they obviously had the intent to kill. 

At the end of the day it would come down to a matter of your money and connections and whether the intruder(s) had a criminal records or whether they (perish the thought) had connections, e.g. Pol. Snr. Sgt. Maj.'s blue eyed son who loved his Mum, respected his elders and had never done a thing wrong until you lured him into your house.  It is also hard to say what come back there might be in terms of reprisals, if you killed or injured an intruder, even if you were acquitted.  That is the same in the UK where people who injured intruders defending their homes have been warned by police to move away from the area, since the intruders will be back to get their revenge and you won't be so lucky the next time.
 

[Arkady]

I have now found a fairly detailed, albeit incomplete, of the draft in Thai from the Senate's website, although it doesn't say whether it was amended after the 1st or 2nd readings.  For anyone who can read the Thai or is interested in trying to put through Google translate it is here   http://www.senate.go.th/document/manual/625.pdf.

[Arkady]

One thing I notice from the draft is that it mentions the need to regulate authentic looking gun replicas that could be used in crimes several times but seems to leave it up to later ministerial regulations how this will be done.  It seems likely that BB and airsoft guns that look like the real thing will need permits and will not be allowed for foreigners.  In fact it probably won't be legal to import them any more.

 

  Even in the US they now have to be in bright orange or similar to make clear they are toys after that kid was shot dead by a cop in DC for waving a BB gun at passing cars.  Last year a Thai cop also shot dead a Chinese gang member and injured another who had tried to rob a gunshop and had slashed a staff member, using authentic looking Taiwanese airsoft Glocks.  I guess the solution will be to make them bright orange here too, which might not apply to existing items, if it happens.  

[Arkady]

Another thing I noticed, which may be extremely distressing for some, is that the fee for a permit to manufacture gun powder for personal use has been increased 60 fold from 5 to 300 baht. 

 

Fees for regular Por 4 licences have also gone up 10 fold from 100 to 5,000 baht but I think the fees were last revised in 1979 and probably won't be revised again for a good few years. I am also told that they want increase from 100 to 5,000 baht all in one go  but will probably increase it to 1,000 baht first and leave the rest till later. 

[off road pat]

10 hours ago, jaiyen said:

No problem, my wife can still legally buy a gun. Foreigners can still easily buy a stolen gun, so the new rule will change nothing, except on paper.

Except if you are caught with a gun in you're possession... Big trouble awaits....and a whole lot of money will be parted of you....

[grollies]

3 minutes ago, off road pat said:

Except if you are caught with a gun in you're possession... Big trouble awaits....and a whole lot of money will be parted of you....

Why on earth would you take a gun with you away from the house? Ours is kept for a specific reason, we don't carry it round in the car .

[digger70]

6 hours ago, bazza73 said:

Why are you still living there?

Cause I don't Frown  (:

[Arkady]

33 minutes ago, grollies said:

Why on earth would you take a gun with you away from the house? Ours is kept for a specific reason, we don't carry it round in the car .

 

For practice or sport. If you want to be able to use it for home defence you need to put in a certain amount of practice with it which could mean the difference between life and death.  I don't advocate carrying a loaded gun in your car - just transport it unloaded and locked in a box to the range.