SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

19 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I must be imagining my sons Thai and British passports then.

And his Thai and British birth certificates.

Thais are not allowed dual nationality. Law changes make little difference, just confuse the issue.

My son has both too, but if the Thai authorities get chance he could have his Thai passport taken away.

When he enters Thailand show one only. Be careful to have visas if he enters with UK.

Coming in on a Thai passport is he liable to conscription?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[citybiker]

And of course Eire voted out in the 1st referendum don't forget, but were given a few worthless promises and made to vote again...

 

 

Oh yes, ‘that’ 1st Eire referendum result which had they’re arms twisted/pressurised by the EU to rethink until it pleased Brussels.

 

Rather ironic, hypocrisy calling the British Spineless for following through despite the controversy.

(At least SNP Sturgeon got the message on referendums)

 

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[adammike]

On 10/23/2017 at 3:26 AM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

I am fully conversant with the British car industry thanks. MINI, RR, Bentley, Nissan, Honda etc.

There is a fair percentage of local parts required, much like Thailand which produces BMW, Benz and Japanese makes in a similar way. The strikes and inept management of the 70s and 80s destroyed the main British car industries, but it has bounced back and now produces more cars than it ever has before that are exported worldwide.

I bought a pair of Nike trainers some your ago when on holiday in the UK only to find on the label they were made in Thailand. That only proves trade and manufacturing is done by the multinationals in the best (up to their quality standard) and most profitable place, and the trade borders don't seem to matter to them in general.

 

Food, well if you think we will starve you really have lost the plot.

 

As for Brexit being a Tory expletive up, you are wrong. Corbyn himself was a Eurosceptic Labour back bench nobody for 35 years along with many others. The Tories have Ken Clarke and several others who are pro-EU. It is a cross party thing.

 

Everyone forgets people will still get work permits and travel to the UK, or to Schengen with a passport, as they do to places outside the EU and UK now.

If the EU demands unrealistic reparations from the UK for leaving, then the WTO rules will keep trade moving until they see sense. Also we could rejoin EFTA don't forget.

Merkel is being pushed by German business to sort it out as they will suffer (25% of their car exports are at stake) and the French sell us food from their subsidized farmers (strange the EU subsidy rules don't apply to them) and the Dutch sell us flowers in huge quantities evidently, just for an example or two.

Trade is not going to stop on the 1st April 2019, that would be an April Fool's Day if it did.

 

What the problem is on the UK side is simple. The remoaners should accept the democratic result of the (one time) referendum and get together to ensure the exit deal suits the UK and the EU in the future. The longer this squabble goes on the less likely the EU will make a reasonable deal and force the WTO rules into practice.

Time to get with the programme and make it work.

 

If you really want to stay in Europe you can do what Colin Firth has done and apply for an EU passport; Irish in would think, County Kerry, might be appropriate.

Duel nationality isn't illegal in Britain, but it is for Thais.

 

 

I have an Irish grandmother and when I go to the UK in December I shall get a copy of her birth certificate etc,my sister has all the details.I will most likely get a Irish passport just to cover my arse, Theresa is past her best before date and I dread to think what will happen if Johnson or Davis become premier.A lot of remainers want reform of the EU looks like we will find out soon.dont get sick any time soon unless you can fund your own treatment. I am starting to hear the theme from Jaws in the background of my mind, I am starting to enjoy Brexit.

[Khun Han]

13 minutes ago, adammike said:

I have an Irish grandmother and when I go to the UK in December I shall get a copy of her birth certificate etc,my sister has all the details.I will most likely get a Irish passport just to cover my arse, Theresa is past her best before date and I dread to think what will happen if Johnson or Davis become premier.A lot of remainers want reform of the EU looks like we will find out soon.dont get sick any time soon unless you can fund your own treatment. I am starting to hear the theme from Jaws in the background of my mind, I am starting to enjoy Brexit.

 

Why would getting an Irish passport cover your ar$e? In the unlikely event of brexit being a bad move for the UK, Ireland would be economically nuked. The only reform of the EU will be more EU, less nation state (as per the pronouncements of all the leading EU figures). Who cares what themes you're hearing in your head? I'm hearing that Germany (and thus the EU) is softening it's stance now that crunch time is approaching, and that a deal will, out of necessity, be done.

[taipeir]

It was the UK govt that kept talking about
no deal.
That's the funny thing.

Remember no deal is better than a bad deal'?
May repeated it about a million times.

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[taipeir]

Oh yes, ‘that’ 1st Eire referendum result which had they’re arms twisted/pressurised by the EU to rethink until it pleased Brussels.

 

Rather ironic, hypocrisy calling the British Spineless for following through despite the controversy.

(At least SNP Sturgeon got the message on referendums)

 

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I think most Irish citizens are plenty pleased as the Lisbon treaty had some changes introduced and they got vote again with minimal disruption to society.

Polls continualky show EU membership has strong support in Ireland (even in northern Ireland ).

 

They had time to chew the cud so to speak and see what a no to LIsbon vote really meant. They decided that it wasn't advantageous and with a few changes most were satisfied. After all theres a million and one other things to be concerned about.

 

There was none of the mess you see in the UK with all the waffle about 'the people have spoken' lark with a tiny majority and nobody knowing what the people actually want going forward .

 

 

 

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[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

10 hours ago, taipeir said:

I think most Irish citizens are plenty pleased as the Lisbon treaty had some changes introduced and they got vote again with minimal disruption to society.

Polls continualky show EU membership has strong support in Ireland (even in northern Ireland ).

 

They had time to chew the cud so to speak and see what a no to LIsbon vote really meant. They decided that it wasn't advantageous and with a few changes most were satisfied. After all theres a million and one other things to be concerned about.

 

There was none of the mess you see in the UK with all the waffle about 'the people have spoken' lark with a tiny majority and nobody knowing what the people actually want going forward .

 

 

 

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The result was not a tiny minority, in General election terms it was the biggest majority in living memory.

Yes, they changed what was a European Constitution to the Lisbon Treaty, almost exactly the same content but with a new title and cover.

 

 

 

[Orac]

The result was not a tiny minority, in General election terms it was the biggest majority in living memory.
Yes, they changed what was a European Constitution to the Lisbon Treaty, almost exactly the same content but with a new title and cover.

 
 
 

It wasn’t a General Election so to compare referendum results to it is a gross distortion -should you want something similar which is in living memory the referendum in 1975 was a yes vote of just over 67%.

As for the Irish vote on the Lisbon Treaty, surely the “will of the people” should be the important factor there and to define the choice of the people of Ireland as “cheesy” is a tad revealing of your democratic principals.


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[taipeir]

 It wasn’t a General Election so to compare referendum results to it is a gross distortion -should you want something similar which is in living memory the referendum in 1975 was a yes vote of just over 67%. 

As for the Irish vote on the Lisbon Treaty, surely the “will of the people” should be the important factor there and to define the choice of the people of Ireland as “cheesy” is a tad revealing of your democratic principals.

 

 

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Interestingly in the first Irish referendum in 2008 to ratify the Lisbon treaty it was 53 to 47 . One year later, after some further legal assurances and voters became a lot more educated about was in it and the ramifications of not being in the EU it was 67 to 33 for the Lisbon treaty.  

A fair number of the first referendum voters were just annoyed with the government of the time and saw a chance to give them a good kicking. They didn't even read or understand what the treaty was about. 40 per cent said they voted no because they couldn't understand it.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2008_(Ireland)

 

What's most interesting is how the number for and against shifted continuously over time and it shows how the 'will of the people' is a tenuous thing. That's why we have things such as four year electoral cycles or snap elections after all.

 

 

 

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[shanesox]

Interestingly in the first Irish referendum in 2008 to ratify the Lisbon treaty it was 53 to 47 . One year later, after some further legal assurances and voters became a lot more educated about was in it and the ramifications of not being in the EU it was 67 to 33 for the Lisbon treaty.  A fair number of the first referendum voters were just annoyed with the government of the time and saw a chance to give them a good kicking. They didn't even read or understand what the treaty was about. 40 per cent said they voted no because they couldn't understand it.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2008_(Ireland)
 
What's most interesting is how the number for and against shifted continuously over time and it shows how the 'will of the people' is a tenuous thing. That's why we have things such as four year electoral cycles or snap elections after all.
 
 
 
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What a pathetic excuse to spout off when you don’t like the referendum result! Europhile to the core I think !


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[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, shanesox said:

What a pathetic excuse to spout off when you don’t like the referendum result! Europhile to the core I think !


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Do you want to insult? I think you failed, he probably sees it as a compliment.

Or do you have some arguments to add to the discussion?

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 25/10/2017 at 3:09 AM, Orac said:

 

It wasn’t a General Election so to compare referendum results to it is a gross distortion -should you want something similar which is in living memory the referendum in 1975 was a yes vote of just over 67%.

As for the Irish vote on the Lisbon Treaty, surely the “will of the people” should be the important factor there and to define the choice of the people of Ireland as “cheesy” is a tad revealing of your democratic principals.


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Cheesy? I didn't say cheesy?

The Irish were compelled to vote again (and get it right or the subsidies would stop).

The 1975 referendum returned a majority of 35% or about 9m votes of 25m cast (33m voted in 2016).

The question at the time was: "to remain in the Common Market  we joined in 1973", a supposed Free Trade Area and a far different beast than the EU is now and intends to become.

 

The comparison to a General Election is worthy, as it shows up the "1st past the post system" and provides a viewpoint as to how the major decisions are made in a democratic system hundreds of years in the making.

Winning a parliamentary seat by 2 votes in a constituency of 30,000 is hardly fair by your reasoning I suppose?

Either way, the majority rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[adammike]

On 24/10/2017 at 12:21 AM, Khun Han said:

 

Why would getting an Irish passport cover your ar$e? In the unlikely event of brexit being a bad move for the UK, Ireland would be economically nuked. The only reform of the EU will be more EU, less nation state (as per the pronouncements of all the leading EU figures). Who cares what themes you're hearing in your head? I'm hearing that Germany (and thus the EU) is softening it's stance now that crunch time is approaching, and that a deal will, out of necessity, be done.

I may get an Irish passport because I live in the Netherlands,I will get all my grandmother's details copy of birth certificate my father's birth certificate etc,I would not trust any tory government ever to do the right thing, as for the provisional wing of the brexiters what could possibly go wrong. 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

I may get an Irish passport because I live in the Netherlands,I will get all my grandmother's details copy of birth certificate my father's birth certificate etc,I would not trust any tory government ever to do the right thing, as for the provisional wing of the brexiters what could possibly go wrong. 

So you would trust a Labour government when all since 1945 have left office with the UK on the edge of total bankruptcy?

 

I hope you get the Irish passport, it will save you from having to get a marriage or retirement visa extension (or the new 5+5 year etc) and coming to live in sunny Thailand.

 

Or maybe that's what will happen to UK expats in the EU, visa extensions, 90 day reports and pay for medicare (over 60), thousands of Euros in the local bank etc.

If the EU don't come to an agreement for UK citizens in the EU then I see no reason why the 3 million EUers should get any different treatment.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

[SheungWan]

On 10/27/2017 at 8:18 PM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

So you would trust a Labour government when all since 1945 have left office with the UK on the edge of total bankruptcy?

I certainly wouldn't trust Brexiteers who spouted silly nonsense.

[adammike]

On 27/10/2017 at 9:18 PM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

So you would trust a Labour government when all since 1945 have left office with the UK on the edge of total bankruptcy?

 

I hope you get the Irish passport, it will save you from having to get a marriage or retirement visa extension (or the new 5+5 year etc) and coming to live in sunny Thailand.

 

Or maybe that's what will happen to UK expats in the EU, visa extensions, 90 day reports and pay for medicare (over 60), thousands of Euros in the local bank etc.

If the EU don't come to an agreement for UK citizens in the EU then I see no reason why the 3 million EUers should get any different treatment.

 

 

 

 

The UK tried to use the EU citizens in the UK as a bargaining chip or implied that they would directly after the referendum,the bad vibes have all come from the tory scum, and yes I would trust a labour government above this lot any time.A year or two ago it looked like you were stuck with the Tories for a generation or two it's not looking that way now.When the fallout from the Harvey Wienstein hits Westminster it has the potential to cause serious damage to both the main parties,I am stocking up on beer and crisps for when the Brexit/Wienstein shit hits the fan,it's gonna be fun watching from the sidelines. 

[shanesox]

The lies from Europhile remainers ! Facts are EU a share of trade is declining! Rest of world is rising! UK is trading more with rest of world! Problem it is regulated completely by EU! https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

 

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[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, shanesox said:

The lies from Europhile remainers ! Facts are EU a share of trade is declining! Rest of world is rising! UK is trading more with rest of world! Problem it is regulated completely by EU! http://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade

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Oh no. The link is no good. While it is being fixed please could you put up a link to the battlebus slogan truth of 350 million savings for the NHS?

[shanesox]

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

Is that better for you? Then you can read a lot about the truth rather than the Remain bull**** Europhile That Failed To convince folk before or since Ref

 

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[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, shanesox said:

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

Is that better for you? Then you can read a lot about the truth rather than the Remain bull**** Europhile That Failed To convince folk before or since Ref

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The stats are OK. Its your hysterical conclusions that are a bit loopy.

[shanesox]

Hysterical ? Because you don’t agree! Suggest you listen to likes of Barnier and Juncker for hysterics! Facts : Future is outside EU


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[Orac]

Hysterical ? Because you don’t agree! Suggest you listen to likes of Barnier and Juncker for hysterics! Facts : Future is outside EU


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Firstly, the £230bn exports with the EU is not to be sniffed at and put at risk - the argument to remain protected both this and the £250bn exported outside the EU to a better degree.

Secondly, the Sky News report last month shot a big hole in these figures by analysing the effect of gold movements which create a distortion.

http://news.sky.com/story/revealed-how-gold-takes-the-shine-off-britains-trade-figures-11057545



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[Kieran00001]

8 hours ago, shanesox said:

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

Is that better for you? Then you can read a lot about the truth rather than the Remain bull**** Europhile That Failed To convince folk before or since Ref

 

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"Facts are EU a share of trade is declining! Rest of world is rising! UK is trading more with rest of world!"

 

"That share was declining until 2013, when exports to other countries increased at a faster rate. Since then the share has held steady."

 

You changed "held steady" to "declining" and then claimed other people speak bull, hilarious.

[lapamita]

I am a Eu citizen.,and seen the Uk never as a strong and reliable  partner of the EU  and my feeling is, that it  will not hurt the EU , it will hurt GB.

Im my opinion , GB was made the wrong decisson in the pole to leave the EU.

 

The hope of GB is, less foreigners, more saefty and specialy, more support for the middle and lower class as well less buerocratic hurdles, amd less presure on slarys.

 

The opposite is happening. The  GB  gverment is lowering taxes for multinationals and Banks and financials. Thye doing non for the normal people.

The price of the tax burdon  will pay at the end the normal workforce.

 

So no benefit for gb, and a question remain will GB exist in future, in case scottland voting in favour of EU.

 

I know the Eu is not perfect ,its buerocratic,its a monster, but the idea of EU ,is just as perfect as it is,it is strong ,it is future.

 

I am not sad Gb leaving, the EU will further expand into the east,where People strongly belive in the EU and its vlaues. and this countrys will support the Eu in the future.Countrys like the Ukraine are much more "europe" than GB.

The EUis building up a great future,for great people ,if they can overcome their internal problems,like buerocratic hassles and the support of financials and multis in favour of the normalpeople.

 

small problems,compare to other countrys

 

The EU is building up a strong power into the future.

 

I hope the EU will stay strong,and dont deliver any Deal in favour of  GB

 

In 1995 the GBp shraed out of the Ecu( eupean curency system),normaly there  Europe had to say already Stop!

 

As Gb citizen i would have voted in favour of the EU

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by lapamita

[citybiker]

I am a Eu citizen.,and seen the Uk never as a strong and reliable  partner of the EU  and my feeling is, that it  will not hurt the EU , it will hurt GB.

Im my opinion , GB was made the wrong decisson in the pole to leave the EU.

 

The hope of GB is, less foreigners, more saefty and specialy, more support for the middle and lower class as well less buerocratic hurdles, amd less presure on slarys.

 

The opposite is happening. The  GB  gverment is lowering taxes for multinationals and Banks and financials. Thye doing non for the normal people.

The price of the tax burdon  will pay at the end the normal workforce.

 

So no benefit for gb, and a question remain will GB exist in future, in case scottland voting in favour of EU.

 

I know the Eu is not perfect ,its buerocratic,its a monster, but the idea of EU ,is just as perfect as it is,it is strong ,it is future.

 

I am not sad Gb leaving, the EU will further expand into the east,where People strongly belive in the EU and its vlaues. and this countrys will support the Eu in the future.Countrys like the Ukraine are much more "europe" than GB.

 

The EUis building up a great future,for great people ,if they can overcome their internal problems,like buerocratic hassles and the support of financials and multis in favour of the normalpeople.

 

small problems,compare to other countrys

 

The EU is building up a strong power into the future.

 

I hope the EU will stay strong,and dont deliver any Deal in favour of  GB

 

In 1995 the GBp shraed out of the Ecu( eupean curency system),normaly there  Europe had to say already Stop!

 

As Gb citizen i would have voted in favour of the EU

 

 

 

Interesting post, although you are 'aware' that a no deal Brexit 'WILL' affect certain EU nations economies, industries and supply chain so not just 'One'sided.

 

If the EU wants to bite its nose off to save face (Ie: deter other MS considering following) then more fool it. However, I'm a firm believer that despite the EU being such a poor trade* negotiator (Canada & Japan being prime examples and evidence to support my argument) then common sense will prevail.

 

I'm also aware that certain eastern bloc countries rely more on the EU than the other stronger economic MS's.

 

* note I state poor at trade not Overal negotiations as talks are ongoing & incomplete.

 

 

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[lapamita]

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

Interesting post, although you are 'aware' that a no deal Brexit 'WILL' affect certain EU nations economies, industries and supply chain so not just 'One'sided.

 

 

I hope there is comming a trade deal, and i am sure their will be one.

 

But the Deal must be fair, and not on the cost of "one side".

 I have the stance , that the Bill for leaving ( outstanding bills until brexit) the Eu Britain has to pay  for.

They accept the depts, it makes they way ,for a deal.

The Eu  is on this stance split at the moment, i wished their would be more "hardliner"

In case of a "no deal" ,GB has to loose more.

Gb is oversating their economic power excluding the financial industrie

 

back to the extension of Europe in to the east

 

Building up a strong nation,power,or union,will always not be easy. Yes in the first stage the strong countrys will not benefit, but the final result is the way, and thats a great Union and power,with over 400 million people, where mostly stay behind the idea of the EU.

 

Even i not Benefit from The EU, and i have more to handle the negative effects, i still a strong beliver in the Eu, and even hate some of their stupid laws , the benefting of banks and multinationals

but if i see the great picture and not only my circumstances ....

Its the greatest project of the 19th and 20th century, it will build up a great future for their citizens

Edited October 30, 2017 by lapamita

[lapamita]

19 minutes ago, lapamita said:

 

 

look at the map.... how small GB compare to EU today, and in 20 years

 

and if the EU is able to make a good relationship and tradedeals with Russia and the eastern economic zones, and build up , together with russia , the so called "silkstreet",an economic heaven and future growth over multiple decades lies ahead.

( i hope it happen, after the UA desaster is solved out, in my opinion the west part of UA goes to the EU , the eastern part to Russia. the country is to devided and the view of politicns on both side to shortterm , to get a better solution)

 

and Gb  dont wnt to join this "vision" ?

 

GB as worldpower ,is a thing of the past centurys

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by lapamita

[citybiker]

I hope there is comming a trade deal, and i am sure their will be one.
 
But the Deal must be fair, and not on the cost of "one side".
 I have the stance , that the Bil for leaving ( outstanding bills until brexit) the Eu Britain has to pay  for.
They accept the depts, it makes they way ,for a deal.
The Eu  is on this stance split at the moment, i wished their would be more "hardliner"
In case of a "no deal" ,GB has to loose more.
Gb is oversating their economic power excluding the financial industrie
 
back to the extension of Europe in to the east
 
Building up a strong nation,power,or union,will always not be easy. Yes in the first stage the strong countrys will not benefit, but the final result is the way, and thats a great Union and power,with over 400 million people, where mostly stay behind the idea of the EU.
 
Even i not Benefit from The EU, and i have more to handle the negative effects, i still a strong beliver in the Eu, and even hate some of their stupid laws , the benefting of banks and multinationals
but if i see the great picture and not only my circumstances ....
Its the greatest project of the 19th and 20th century, it will build up a great future for their citizens

We both agree the deal must be fair, unfortunately however the EU has other ideas on this element & which is why no figures have been submitted (due to the legality).
Bear in mind, for a deal to be fair it should not punish the leaving MS either, although rebuffing all current proposals have shown the EU is acting more than a monster but a gold digging ex-wife in a tantrum (excuse the latter part).
Overstating the economic power? 5th in that status isn't overstating, despite the Currency turbulence/ fluctuation which is normal the situation hasn't nose dived.

I'll repeat & emphasise in the most respectful manner, we are & will remain European neighbours and friends it's the EU political element that I wish for an amicable divorce.


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[Grouse]

11 hours ago, shanesox said:

The lies from Europhile remainers ! Facts are EU a share of trade is declining! Rest of world is rising! UK is trading more with rest of world! Problem it is regulated completely by EU! https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

 

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