New unedited footage shows British pensioner taking machete swipe at Thai man

[silent]

20 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

watch 1.29 to 1:36 . . .the Brit swerves to the right trying to block the Thai from overtaking

 

this is what started it. Not the scene when the Thai refuses to let the Brit pass and overtake him.  It starts when the Brit intentionally bumps into the side of the Thai's Honda Brio 

It looks to me like the altercation started at the right turn onto the road when the ignorant farang didn't give right of way to the Thai pseudo alpha male who like so many overtake those in the turn lane. 

[Docno]

Video would make excellent instructional material for tourists thinking about renting a car in Thailand. And I'm talking about the bits before the confrontation begins: pedestrians walking in the road, motorbikes driving in the wrong direction, insane attempts to overtake, trucks parked illegally and far from the curb, cars in front stopping unexpectedly, etc etc

[BEVUP]

Maybe what started it was when the was trying to cut in there was a slight touch up & the Thai wasn't giving the finger & trying to get him to pull over thinking the Brit owes repairs

But as the Brit sees it the Thai was in the wrong & didn't worry as it was very minor & just carried on ' but it just escalated 

[bazza73]

3 minutes ago, ttrd said:

 

RE - Likewise, the Thai should do time for the coward punch. Not because he is Thai, but because it's a dog act which should not go unpunished. If he was a falang, my recommendation would be exactly the same.

 

Well, in general I would have been agree with you but in this particular case when we know what actually happened - when someone attacking you, your wife and your child with a machete by stabbing the car as a real maniac before he try to drive you down - well, if you do not manage to put your self in this situation and can imagine what a trauma this has caused then.....

10 points to the thai who didnt kick him after going down and as well that he made it to a 1:1 fight which is not common in Thailand...;)

It's a difficult area. If the coward punch goes unpunished, then other people, irrespective of nationality, are encouraged to think they can get away with it on a defence of provocation.

It's an act which can potentially cause permanent brain damage or death. For that reason, IMHO it should be discouraged with the full force of the law.

Perhaps the Thai thought kicking the Brit when he was down might have stirred the totally useless cop into action. Personally, I wouldn't be giving him brownie points for that.

In Australia, new laws are being legislated which make a coward punch causing death a mandatory 10 years jail. I doubt that will happen in Thailand.

[robblok]

21 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Your narrow concern is in advancing the notion that violence is ok in some circumstances where there is provocation, and one can take the law into one's own hands if one thinks fit.  This was revenge pure and simple, carried out by a dangerous individual (albeit against a total nutter).

No violence is never ok, but its more understandable after you have been subjected to violence by an other. The law in many countries takes that into account that if your punched and you respond your far less liable as when you do the same thing and you have not been punched before. They take into account how you got into a situation. (there is always punishment just less)

 

Suppose you give me a big punch in my belly and threaten me with a knife and i snap and give you a good thrashing, then it is not punished as harshly as when I give you a trashing without any reason for it. This of course depends on how much time is passed between 2 events because otherwise it could be own justice / revenge. 

[ttrd]

1 minute ago, spermwhale said:

Thai dude was just driving like a complete selfish  A-hole like about 25% of all Thais on the road. That's standard here and as much as I get pissed off at the way people drive here I don't chase people and I don't threaten them. I'll honk if they get close or do something stupid and came close to hitting me, but even that has gotten some of the other parties in a fit and then they try to intimidate me by slowing down in front of me  and doing stupid shit. 

I've said it before that many Thai men are like children in men's bodies.  

The winner is the visitor that actually understand he is a visitor, who act as a visitor should by showing respect for the country and their citizens for letting him come for a visit.

 

With other words, leave the expectations back home, re-set when enter another country who have their own culture, laws and rules and try to adapt rather to change during your stay - first then you will enjoy your stay which are nothing else than just a visit...

 

Just my two cents...;)

[jenny2017]

Mr Collins had earlier claimed that he used a "gardening tool" to defend himself. Our source comfirmed that the pensioner likes gardening.

 

   What an outstanding remark. He seems to like to fight, even in a country he can't call his own. He can call himself very lucky that a group of Thai didn't kill him with machetes, knives, beer bottles, or anything else.

 

   What really bugs me is that so many people here on TV are on the British/Aussie guy's side, but he was the one who did things that made the situation so strange. What would happen to a Thai guy who'd try to run over s Brit in let's say Birmingham?

 

  It's really a shame to see people behaving like that in a country others call their home and never do such nonsense.

 

   He must have had many fights with weapons back home, otherwise he wouldn't have been so fast to take his "garden tool" to "defend" himself? He didn't defend himself, he was the attacker with the machete and the car.

 

  And there's no doubt about that a car can easily be used to kill people. A sad example of an "expat". And It seems that he's got the machete in his trunk for such situations, not for his garden. Doesn't really look like the flower loving guy. Shame on him. 

 

  

Edited October 16, 2017 by jenny2017

[greenchair]

It looks like as the brit turned the corner and the Thai tried to push in to get in front of him. Then the Thai overtakes brit and cuts brit off to squeeze between brit and truck. Then brit tries to overtake to get away but thai stops the escape route then slows his car to force brit to stop with his car wedged between the back car and thai man car. The brit grabs his machete because the Thai obviously was picking a fight. The Thai guy makes a couple swipes at the brit who backs off, then attacks the window. The brit gets away and is able to get in his car and try to escape again. Unfortunately the Thai man was in the way, but considering the brit of 77 years old was in danger the whole time of being attacked by a large 29 year old, it looks like he panicked and tried to get away. 

The Thai man started it and clearly would not let the man get away in the first instance. 

Self defense. 

[FritsSikkink]

21 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

It's a difficult area. If the coward punch goes unpunished, then other people, irrespective of nationality, are encouraged to think they can get away with it on a defence of provocation.

It's an act which can potentially cause permanent brain damage or death. For that reason, IMHO it should be discouraged with the full force of the law.

Perhaps the Thai thought kicking the Brit when he was down might have stirred the totally useless cop into action. Personally, I wouldn't be giving him brownie points for that.

In Australia, new laws are being legislated which make a coward punch causing death a mandatory 10 years jail. I doubt that will happen in Thailand.

What is the Aussie law when you attack somebody with a gardening tool / machete and run him over with your car?

[jenny2017]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

It looks like as the brit turned the corner and the Thai tried to push in to get in front of him. Then the Thai overtakes brit and cuts brit off to squeeze between brit and truck. Then brit tries to overtake to get away but thai stops the escape route then slows his car to force brit to stop with his car wedged between the back car and thai man car. The brit grabs his machete because the Thai obviously was picking a fight. The Thai guy makes a couple swipes at the brit who backs off, then attacks the window. The brit gets away and is able to get in his car and try to escape again. Unfortunately the Thai man was in the way, but considering the brit of 77 years old was in danger the whole time of being attacked by a large 29 year old, it looks like he panicked and tried to get away. 

The Thai man started it and clearly would not let the man get away in the first instance. 

Self defense. 

Self defense of the Thai guy. 

[greenchair]

22 minutes ago, ttrd said:

The winner is the visitor that actually understand he is a visitor, who act as a visitor should by showing respect for the country and their citizens for letting him come for a visit.

 

With other words, leave the expectations back home, re-set when enter another country who have their own culture, laws and rules and try to adapt rather to change during your stay - first then you will enjoy your stay which are nothing else than just a visit...

 

Just my two cents...;)

Yes and it is 2 cents worth. 

The foreigner was trying to get away. The Thai would not let him. 77 years old against 29 year old, he didn't have a chance without the machete. 

My thai mum of 90 has one and she would use it too. 

Well done ole man. 

[jenny2017]

3 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

What is the Aussie law when you attack somebody with a gardening tool / machete and run him over with your car?

It's of course a criminal offense that will end up with severe punishment. Not only in Australia. 

[greenchair]

4 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Self defense of the Thai guy. 

No, self defense of the brit. The Thai blocked him in and would not let him pass. As can be seen by the last punch, without the machete the brit would have been punched earlier. He thought he was going to get a beating and took action to prevent it. 

Why did the Thai block his car and block his ability to pass and go about his business. The Thai started it. The brit finished it. 

[Kadilo]

No, self defense of the brit. The Thai blocked him in and would not let him pass. As can be seen by the last punch, without the machete the brit would have been punched earlier. He thought he was going to get a beating and took action to prevent it. 
Why did the Thai block his car and block his ability to pass and go about his business. The Thai started it. The brit finished it. 

From the picture I saw with him flat out on the deck I would say the Thai finished it


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[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

If you have any bamboo in your garden, a machete is required. 

So, you are saying he had bamboo growing in the boot of his car?

[BwindiBoy]

Ah, the unedited, CLEARLY EDITED video....!  If only it were unedited, a slightly clearer picture may emerge.  However, the bad reporting that states "The dash cam footage firstly shows the British man trying to pass..." is clearly wrong, as the idiot in the white car UNDERTAKES traffic at the junction at the start of the video, right at the last second, trying to sneak up the INSIDE of the ex pat's car.  Proximate cause = white car driver driving like a dangerous fool.  Yes, he over=reacted, but it looks like the white car driver was consistently dangerous and very irritating.

[greenchair]

16 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

It's of course a criminal offense that will end up with severe punishment. Not only in Australia. 

According to the Thai criminal code madra 67  (1) (2)

A person shall not be punished if he committed an offence out of necessity. 

Such as he feels compelled to defend himself by the actions of another. 

Or 

He acts in a way to make himself escape from imminent danger which could not be avoided by any other means, Of which the person did not cause to exist. 

The Thai blocked him in, he was frightened and took action to defend himself. 

He accidently hit the Thai whilst trying to escape. 

The Thai instigated the whole thing. 

Thai criminal code 310, whoever detains a person or deprives such person of liberty of person is liable to 3 years. 

The Thai prevented the brit from passing and leaving,that's illegal. 

I hope this guy knows his rights and laws. If not pm me. I won my case based on these laws. 

[BwindiBoy]

On ‎15‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 6:27 AM, cyberfarang said:

There must have been some sort of altercation beforehand that wound the Thai guy up. He did say that Mr Collins gave him the middle finger. Maybe Collins became frustrated with the Thai man`s driving and lost his temper. Whatever; Collins is at fault 100% for using gestures that escalated the situation into physical violence instead of keeping cool and letting it go.

 

The outcome of this can only be that Collins will be ruined, probably both financially, maybe his freedom at threat and his future stay in Thailand in jeopardy. Do hope he feels all the trouble was worth it.
%

The white car undertook the traffic waiting to turn right at the first junction in the video, then tried to go up the inside of Collins - that was what "escalated" the situation.

[ttrd]

29 minutes ago, greenchair said:

No, self defense of the brit. The Thai blocked him in and would not let him pass. As can be seen by the last punch, without the machete the brit would have been punched earlier. He thought he was going to get a beating and took action to prevent it. 

Why did the Thai block his car and block his ability to pass and go about his business. The Thai started it. The brit finished it. 

Ok, so you are saying the brit thought he was going to be punched in his car by someone who is in another car. so he went out of his car while the other still sit in his car, take out the machete and starts stabbing the other car and all that just to prevent a potential beating without the slightest signal that this ever will happen at that point ..??...

 

Well analyzed...;)

 

I would rather say that the brit by doing so trigged the punch and it was well deserved...;)

Edited October 16, 2017 by ttrd

[bazza73]

55 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

What is the Aussie law when you attack somebody with a gardening tool / machete and run him over with your car?

I'm not an expert; however, probably aggravated assault, assault with a deadly weapon, or attempted murder.

I think you meant to ask what the penalties were, but your rush to sarcasm got the better of you. Anywhere from a good behavior bond to years in jail, depending on how good the defense lawyer is.

Edited October 16, 2017 by bazza73
Elaboration

[Lokie]

Pair of ThroBBers!

 

Both should be banned off the road 

Heavy fine to Thai guy for driving offences and assault

 

The idiot farang, well really looks like a custodial sentence or secure hospital?? 

Attempted assault with a deadly weapon (arguably attempted murder)

Dangerous driving 

Using a vehicle to endanger life

Failing to stop after an accident (Hit & Run)

Being a complete Nutter

[Thaidream]

Legally- you cannot take action because you think someone may harm you.  It is obvious there is fault on both sides and  the degree will have to be determined by the police and possibly the Prosecutor and a Judge.  In my opinion- the Brit would be better served if he can enter into a negotiation with the other party under the auspices of the police. If the case goes to court and a judge makes the decision- jail is a possibility and then deportation.

 

This is a classic case of what never to do on the highway in Thailand. Always hold your anger and never make gestures or yell at another.   Let it go....confrontation has huge risks in Thailand and huge costs.

 

 

[AGareth2]

provocation can only be used in a murder charge

not assault under English law

[wealthychef]

Definitely attempted murder there running him over with the car.  What if he had not been knocked up but rather fell down?  I'm sure there was some reason the Thai was blocking him from passing, some sort of road rage from earlier.  Both are idiots but the Thai was the victim of an attempted murder here for sure.  Deserved a free swing at the old ass's nose based on this video.  

[Thaidream]

The circumstances of this incident have been debated back and forth on this site since the incident happened. The only thing that counts is what the police believe happened- the case write up-  what the prosecutor presents as his case and then the ultimate decision of  a judge- no jury trials in Thailand.  Once it gets to a trial- anything can happen. IMHO the Brit would do much better negotiating a settlement before this case ever makes it to trial. As a foreigner- the Brit has a lot more to lose than the Thai if the case goes forward .

[bazza73]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The circumstances of this incident have been debated back and forth on this site since the incident happened. The only thing that counts is what the police believe happened- the case write up-  what the prosecutor presents as his case and then the ultimate decision of  a judge- no jury trials in Thailand.  Once it gets to a trial- anything can happen. IMHO the Brit would do much better negotiating a settlement before this case ever makes it to trial. As a foreigner- the Brit has a lot more to lose than the Thai if the case goes forward .

I think you're right. Coward punches and assaults by multiple persons on one person seem to be treated fairly lightly here.

[greenchair]

18 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Legally- you cannot take action because you think someone may harm you.  It is obvious there is fault on both sides and  the degree will have to be determined by the police and possibly the Prosecutor and a Judge.  In my opinion- the Brit would be better served if he can enter into a negotiation with the other party under the auspices of the police. If the case goes to court and a judge makes the decision- jail is a possibility and then deportation.

 

This is a classic case of what never to do on the highway in Thailand. Always hold your anger and never make gestures or yell at another.   Let it go....confrontation has huge risks in Thailand and huge costs.

 

 

Well according to section 67 you can. He was blocked in by 2 cars and was being prevented from leaving the area. This law does not say the person must attack in order to defend yourself. 

It just says if you believe there is imminent danger. 

The Thai would not let the foreigner pass. 

The brit very old man was clearly trying to get away on 3 occasions. 

[Thaidream]

The interpretation of laws and how they apply whether one is in Thailand or another country depends upon how a judge views what happened.  If a jury was involved- lawyers would make their case and the jury would decide. However, in Thailand -there is no jury.  The prosecutor will portray the incidents in one way and the defense will attempt to mitigate. It is the judge who will decide  how the law applies and from what I have seen there can be different interpretations of the law depending on who is the judge.  IMHO- the sure way to avoid a jail term for either party is to sit down and negotiate a settlement.

[Scouse123]

As I have been saying all along on multiple threads regarding this incident.

The foreigner will not win despite the TV keyboard judges and lawyers.

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[Boon Mee]

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

As I have been saying all along on multiple threads regarding this incident.

The foreigner will not win despite the TV keyboard judges and lawyers.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes, it's naive to think the Farang will 'win' in these kinds of circumstances. 

Makes it even more imparative that one needs to have a dash camera and a cool ? head.