Healthcare on a Shoestring for the Elderly who have no insurance

al007 · October 15, 2017

I relate to only a few on TVF, and have a few who thank me for my input, (I know many have very different views from me ) however I have a lot of first hand knowledge and want to share it for the benefit of others, I have already helped four people go to India(where I went) for prostate problems, and helped another get into the Chula system and am currently helping another lady from the USA lock into the Chula system, as I call it, my knowledge of Chula is probably better than anyone on TVF, and if not show yourself and help me !

For me I accept choosing to live outside the UK is healthwise risky,Thailand has no social security system for foreigners and remember the UK will not pay your fare home; insurance costs for the elderly can be prohibitive, I also accept living is terminal, I have been an entrepreneur and risk taker all my life, PLAN FOR THE WORST AND HOPE FOR THE BEST and it will stand you in good stead

I am 73 have a couple of cancers and come from the UK, insurance costs for the likes of me are just madness and unacceptable and in any case not available for preexisting conditions, if over 60 and you do not have a min of 1.0M Bhatt available at short term notice you should either not be here or prepared to die in pain and suffering,hopefully not the case, this is a very serious observation

I have had chemotherapy, radiation treatement, and am currently about to be operated on at a top government teaching hospital all at very reasonable cost, but I will hopefully see change from 700,000 overall, accommodation in Bangkok increases this figure, but again a successful claim for malpractice reduces it, I live near KhonKaen not Bangkok, many will say you are not eligible to Use Chulalongkorn in correct

Matters are further complicated in Thailand because one has no GP and some Private hospitals are in my opinion only money making machines, and there are too many incompetent or negligent doctors out there, here you need to be more vigilant and be your own GP as well, however there are many excellent ones it is just a question of finding them

Thai treat doctors as Gods and do not question, you must question and understand what is being said

Do not be dismayed, and do not forget India that has some very good care at affordable cost, not very far away, but not always cheaper than here although in some cases yes it is

My own experiences here

Use TVF do not be upset by some bad unconnected comment, you can however get, from a very small minority, some very valuable feed back, but always double check, this can go a long way to replacing lack of GP

When my cancers were diagnosed in India having been missed despite routine medicals, MRI scans, CAT scans and Colonoscopies in Issan I went to Bangkok for medical opinions, not just one several, at private hospitals these are generally not expensive, always ask and take away copies of your notes, in Bangkok I am registered with six hospitals in KhonKaen, three government hospitals and four private hospitals, also the Cancer hospital at Udon Thani

When you have annual check ups insist and see the doctor first and discuss what you are having and what you are not having, do NOT allow the receptionist who has little knowledge to make the decisions, way way too dangerous, and after the tests before paying discuss with the doctor, I was told for three years blood in the stools is normal

When you have identified your team, you ask them where can they assist you at the most affordable cost, this is how I got into the system at Chulalongkorn the top cancer and teaching hospital in Bangkok , I have a quote for my upcoming surgery that is seven times what I will pay at Chula, I was switched to chula by my oncologist, and I also first saw my colorectal surgeon at a private hospital

I currently have Colorectal surgeon, Oncologist, Chemo man, separate from oncologist and Urologist, all of them under 45, avoid those consultants near retirement and past their sell by date , consultations around or less than 500 bhatt

Waiting times and crowds are the norm at govt hospitals

I asked my surgeon, maybe the top in Thailand where could he do the best job Bumrungrad or Chula, his comment was equal except I would not like the bill at Bumrungrad, if he had said the second I might have gone there, but not required and I save hard earnt and precious money

I use government hospitals for all my blood tests and vaccinations, saving big money on private hospitals

For my radiation treatment I had the option of KhonKaen University hospital or Chulalongkorn, and I chose Chula because it has the most uptodate equipment in Thailand, better than most private hospitals, and is building another wing with state of the art particle radiation equipment costing billions

Chula also has a variety of 3T MRIs and overall may well be the best equipped hospital in Thailand, HM the Queen regularly goes there for checking, and that in itself must say its the very best

The admin in the government hospitals leave a little to be desired however today when we are there for a few days we keep our file with us and it does not get lost, we know not to ask for copies we will not get them, but now quietly go to a different floor sit and have a coffee and take photos of the pages we want

For three months I have been trying to get a cost estimate for the up and coming operation I asked the doctor doing the preop tests and he told me to go to the finance dept, we asked the staff nurse where to go and she said she knew the cost, she did not, however the finance dept with pushing were more helpful when I finally said if you do not give me a figure I may not have the money to pay, the lady wrote some figures on the file, I asked for her name and she refused, she asked me to sign which I did but added a clause not to exceed, we also later copied this part of the file to my telephone

Some of the part of being on a government hospital is, is testing, on arrival my blood pressure was taken, I told the nurse, it is going to be high, I have just come off the overnight bus, well it was at 198/90, I assured her it is normally around 125 to 130/80, she decided I had hypertension, she did not do my weight I am 124 kilos, ( down some 22kgs), I had and echo scan, I asked why was a stress test not being done the nurse just said we do not do.

I was asked about allergies etc and I said I can suffer anaphylactic shock , the nurse wrote nothing down because she did not understand me, and I had to insist she noted this, watch watch

So I saw a young very young doctor, I questioned no stress tests and he confirmed they do not do, we discussed my blood pressure and he said from what I told him monitoring it at home he was happy, he told me I could go, I said wait a moment please slow down, you have not asked me about any other problems, like my severe hip pain, or groin pain, ah he says and opens my file again and starts writing more, I check my list and then leave, the nurse outside then said I had to see another doctor because of my hypertension, I asked if she had spoken to the doctor, I had just seen, who was happy on this, and she said no, i told her to then check with him

I also discussed with the doctor my living will he read it, five pages and said he was happy to put it on my file,I also gave him my donor details registered with Chula, they will keep my body and save funeral costs as a side benefit, if the worst should happen, the nurse later wanted me to take this back and I had to be very persistent, and say can we please go back to the doctor, he is still in that room, the Thai way and also my wife's way leave alone do not argue, I also asked the nurse if she was better qualified than the doctor, yes I am harsh but it is my life !!

Three hours after leaving we get a phone call while sat having a relaxing strong whisky, can we have the operation ten days earlier, to which I say to my wife; just say yes we are lucky to have what we have and it is ten days less to worry

All a bit of a nightmare I go to hospital two full days before surgery, I will be taking written list of the items I am still not happy on, I will have a few copies of my living will, and one will either be attached to me or on my notes at the end of my bed

I am very sure at the Bumrungrad a lot of this would be sidestepped, but at a cost I do not want to pay

One of the objects of my living will is not to waste money on life support, I would rather my wife has it, ( if anyone wants a copy of the one I put together a combination of many please PM me and I will send)

If you live in Thailand my suggestion is you should be registered at the Chula, and and your local government hospital as well, then if a big problem arises get to accident and emergency around 3.00am you will then hopefully be put on a trolley and admitted, once admitted you may well be kept there, at least you are in

My wife has instructions if at home, near Khonkaen get me to Srinarakin Govt and University Hospital, she knows how to get there has driven there and is my ambulance driver of choice !!

Everyone needs a plan,

My wife and step children are on the 30bhatt scheme which covers dentistry as well, so I found out when being asked to fund dental bills for them all !

I am a risk taker, many things could be better, but I have to compromise and move ahead and not forget to pray and ask God for help also say thank you, I will also visit the temple before going, on a quiet day with few people around

cheeryble · October 17, 2017

Best of luck to you for your op.

One question as I also pay my own way and like to stay aware of medical pricing.

On reading it looks like the 700k is for the operation, not for past procedures like chemo.

This actually seems an awful lot, as open heart surgery can be half that according to a friend (I think that was in Maharat CM maybe via Sripat)

Again all the best

Edited October 17, 2017 by cheeryble

al007 · October 17, 2017

2 hours ago, cheeryble said:

Best of luck to you for your op.

One question as I also pay my own way and like to stay aware of medical pricing.

On reading it looks like the 700k is for the operation, not for past procedures like chemo.

This actually seems an awful lot, as open heart surgery can be half that according to a friend (I think that was in Maharat CM maybe via Sripat)

Again all the best

K700 bhatt for all hospital costs including seven weeks radiation chemo, drugs etc, and operation costs subject to no complications, and private room ten days

on medical pricing hip replacement at Udon Thani army hospital costs around 60,000

If you self insure it is I consider wise to try and keep upto date on costs that one might have to fund, also where to go

cheeryble · October 17, 2017

27 minutes ago, al007 said:

K700 bhatt for all hospital costs including seven weeks radiation chemo, drugs etc, and operation costs subject to no complications, and private room ten days

on medical pricing hip replacement at Udon Thani army hospital costs around 60,000

If you self insure it is I consider wise to try and keep upto date on costs that one might have to fund, also where to go

Agreed yes i like to know prices ........your 60,000 for a hip seems very CHEAP as I've been quoted around 200k for endoscopic work on one shoulder with no "parts" inserted.

I was thinking a fair bit of the hip op cost would be for the prosthesis itself as I'm guessing they''re imported.

ps there's also such a thing as hip "relining" I believe.

Actually there's no reason these hips and knees shouldn't be made in Thailand I had a friend with a company which made high grade dental instruments and commissioned stainless work for a long time here.

Supplying this sort of thing could be a good enterprise and vey satisfying to undercut US prices. Did you know three of the biggest four manufacturers in the US are in one small town in the mid west, think it's called Moscow? Very cosy little club.

Edited October 17, 2017 by cheeryble

faraday · October 18, 2017

Thank you Al, very good & informative post.

oldcarguy · October 18, 2017

20 hours ago, cheeryble said:

.....Actually there's no reason these hips and knees shouldn't be made in Thailand I had a friend with company which made high grade dental instruments and commissioned stainless work for a long time here.

Supplying this sort of thing could be a good enterprise and vey satisfying to undercut US prices. Did you know three of the biggest four manufacturers in the US are in one small town in the mid west, think it's called Moscow? Very cosy little club.

I am sure a big part of the cost is the USA insurance, makes anything medical in US at a much higher price

rosst · October 18, 2017

Thanks Al, I read and did my best to digest all that, I have a house in Thailand and also the Philippines and Australia where I maintain basic hospital private cover, it is a worry to all us old farts, keep up the good work.

glasswort · October 18, 2017

Interesting but rather verbose post. For those in Pattaya Queen Sirikit Naval Hospital in Sattahip. Stent operation there cost me THB179k., Bangkok Hospital Pattaya wanted 650k. No brainer.

gamini · October 18, 2017

Commenting on your post. You have made some valid points, India for example. How long have you been in Thailand? . Do you speak Thai? Do you have good Thai friends? The latter will always point you to the best doctors. Speaking Thai helps a lot in government hospitals.

You made no mention of Siriraj hospital which is the best in Thailand? Chula is not that good. You seem to think you know a lot more than others on this forum. But I dont seem to feel that you have been here a long time. No offence intended.

tryasimight · October 18, 2017

A bit of a rambling post by the OP...not really sure what he is saying.....multiple cancers....good luck old mate...

DogNo1 · October 18, 2017

Thanks, Al. Your post is a real wake up call for me. I have been blindly absorbing Bumrungrad's increasing costs but I will need to shop around if I have another cardiac blockage or serious illness. I have Japanese health insurance and spend half the year in Tokyo but if something serious happens to me in Bangkok, I may not feel like jumping on a plane back to Japan. I like my cardiologist at Bumrungrad but may not be able to afford him any more. A friend uses Samitivej but I've heard that it is also quite expensive. Another friend used St. Louis Hospital for a carpal tunnel operation that was botched so I'm not confident that it can be trusted. According to the OP, the service at Chula can be pretty terrible what with having to argue with the nurses and fight for correct pricing and keep your own records. At least Bum has all of my records on its computer going back ten years and my doctor's assistant runs interference for me if there are any problems. I have noticed that Bum's quality of care seems to have been going downhill for the past several years so it's an opportune time to make a change.

If I can survive for five more years, I'll move back to Little Saigon (Westminster, CA) where I have Medicare and my daughter and friends can arrange all kinds of services within the Vietnamese community. My daughter is a social worker who handles a case load of elderly Vietnamese patients since she is a Vietnamese speaker.

al007 · October 18, 2017

2 hours ago, gamini said:

Commenting on your post. You have made some valid points, India for example. How long have you been in Thailand? . Do you speak Thai? Do you have good Thai friends? The latter will always point you to the best doctors. Speaking Thai helps a lot in government hospitals.

You made no mention of Siriraj hospital which is the best in Thailand? Chula is not that good. You seem to think you know a lot more than others on this forum. But I dont seem to feel that you have been here a long time. No offence intended.

You are correct I have only been here ten years, not a long time

I have in that time taught my wife to speak good english

Yes my knowledge of thai is limited but I always have my wife with me

I do not say I know more than others, just I have had unfortunately too much experience of hospitals in the last eighteen months

Sir tell us a little about your experience with hospitals here, so we can understand where you come from, have you spent much time in hospital here, also are you like me with no insurance

I am looking for friends with more hands on experience than I have, maybe you can help

You are maybe correct Chulalongkorn in Bangkok has some weaknesses and waiting times are sometimes slow, however I believe it is the number one Teaching Hospital here in Thailand, also it is exceedingly well priced and a fraction of the cost of say the Bumrungrad, my colorectal surgeon also operates there, he assures me the equipment at Chula is superior, the difference is cost and rather substantial

It is one of the very best equipped hospitals so again in my humble opinion I believe, also the number one cancer hospital in Thailand, and currently building a billion bhatt new cancer facility, with particle radiation

I know the Queen Mother who is not in good health is a regular patient there, so some people in high places have equal faith in it as do I , why would she go anywhere other than the very best

Thank you for your kind comments, I look forward to your observations

al007 · October 18, 2017

45 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

Thanks, Al. Your post is a real wake up call for me. I have been blindly absorbing Bumrungrad's increasing costs but I will need to shop around if I have another cardiac blockage or serious illness. I have Japanese health insurance and spend half the year in Tokyo but if something serious happens to me in Bangkok, I may not feel like jumping on a plane back to Japan. I like my cardiologist at Bumrungrad but may not be able to afford him any more. A friend uses Samitivej but I've heard that it is also quite expensive. Another friend used St. Louis Hospital for a carpal tunnel operation that was botched so I'm not confident that it can be trusted. According to the OP, the service at Chula can be pretty terrible what with having to argue with the nurses and fight for correct pricing and keep your own records. At least Bum has all of my records on its computer going back ten years and my doctor's assistant runs interference for me if there are any problems. I have noticed that Bum's quality of care seems to have been going downhill for the past several years so it's an opportune time to make a change.

If I can survive for five more years, I'll move back to Little Saigon (Westminster, CA) where I have Medicare and my daughter and friends can arrange all kinds of services within the Vietnamese community. My daughter is a social worker who handles a case load of elderly Vietnamese patients since she is a Vietnamese speaker.

Look I am overcritical

I also try to do medical on a shoe string

Chula has weaknesses on admin, and waiting times, HOWEVER in my humble opinion the underlying care and expertise can only be described as the very best, my personal budget is limited, so I choose Chulalongkorn, if my budget were unlimited I would still chose the same surgeon but at a different location

I also believe Chulalongkorn is a safe hospital unlike some but not all private hospitals

good luck sir

al007 · October 18, 2017

4 hours ago, rosst said:

Thanks Al, I read and did my best to digest all that, I have a house in Thailand and also the Philippines and Australia where I maintain basic hospital private cover, it is a worry to all us old farts, keep up the good work.

Your kind words appreciated

I wish you well

al007 · October 18, 2017

3 hours ago, glasswort said:

Interesting but rather verbose post. For those in Pattaya Queen Sirikit Naval Hospital in Sattahip. Stent operation there cost me THB179k., Bangkok Hospital Pattaya wanted 650k. No brainer.

Thank you sir, sorry if a bit long winded just wish to help others and maybe better too long rather than too short, as a badly dyslectic man English is not my strength

Be lucky

Ulic · October 18, 2017

Best of luck and if possible let us know how things progress.

jgarbo · October 19, 2017

On 10/17/2017 at 11:38 AM, cheeryble said:

Best of luck to you for your op.

One question as I also pay my own way and like to stay aware of medical pricing.

On reading it looks like the 700k is for the operation, not for past procedures like chemo.

This actually seems an awful lot, as open heart surgery can be half that according to a friend (I think that was in Maharat CM maybe via Sripat)

Again all the best

The rant was long and windy. Cut to chase. A pal found he had MAC, leaking from the anus. Went to Chula. Treated like a prince (he spoke Thai), Bt 500 per radiotherapy session. Cured in 3 mths. Total cost about Bt 3000. Why bother with insurance, knowing that insurance companies exist by denying liability , not paying out. Get it?

Stop the Judeo-Christian desperation about escaping death. Death does not exist. Do your three score and ten. Rejoice.

And anyway, didn't Humphrey Bogart explain it in Casablanca. "It's not a bad place to die." We all die. Thailand's not bad place to die.

cheeryble · October 19, 2017

Sheryl always says choose the doctor so if u are happy with the doctor and ok with the hospital great

Sheryl · October 19, 2017

5 hours ago, jgarbo said:

The rant was long and windy. Cut to chase. A pal found he had MAC, leaking from the anus. Went to Chula. Treated like a prince (he spoke Thai), Bt 500 per radiotherapy session. Cured in 3 mths. Total cost about Bt 3000. Why bother with insurance, knowing that insurance companies exist by denying liability , not paying out. Get it? ...

Your friend's specific treatment may have cost only 3,000 baht, but I know many cases where bills at Chula exceeded 1 million baht. The OP's total cost -- assuming no complications -- is expected to be around 700,000. It is very, very unrealistic to assume insurance is unnecessary because costs will always be minimal. Not the case. Public hospital will cost about a third of private but can still reach to 1-2 million baht for a major accident or catastrophic illness.

It is not at all the case that insurance companies "exist by denying liability , not paying out". Insurance companies exist by assessing risks and setting premiums such that they will come out ahead on balance from among their total number of insured persons by pooling their collective risks . They will take losses on some people but turn a profit on others and they screen potential clients and set premiums carefully to ensure that the latter will outbalance the former; there is a whole profession of people whose job it is to do this sort of thing - necessary precisely because the business model is not to just deny all claims as suggested.

People who make claims soon after taking out a policy for conditions likely to have been pre-existing run into problems and such claims are closely scrutinized to see if a pre-existing condition was concealed at time of enrollment, and will be denied if it is found to be the case. Occasionally the company may err in that determination (certain companies more prone to this than others), but if so there are avenues of appeal. More often the claim denial is valid. Unfortunately quite a lot of expats do wait until they are ill to start thinking about insurance, and I see quite a few people on this board openly asking how to get a new insurance policy that will pay for an illness they already have. No can do. In addition, some people take out policies without paying any attention to what the schedule of benefits is or even reading the policy language, assuming that any "health insurance" automatically covers everything, and then when they have a claim find out that the policy -- clealry written -- excluded the care they need or had a very low payment ceiling.

People with policies from reputable companies with claims clearly not due to a pre-existing condition do not usually experience any difficulty with the company paying out in accordance with the terms of their policy, and companies do pay out large sums regularly, as many members on this board (including myself) can attest first hand.

If someone prefers to self-insure and has adequate resources to do so (and a back-up plan for what they will do when those funds are depleted), that's fine. However many people who call themselves "self-insured" in fact do not have remotely enough funds put aside nor any plan for when what little they have is expended; actually they are uninsured and deluding themslves.

Not self-insuring and not getting health insurance is taking a huge risk...and if you plan to be here for the rest of your life and cannot readily return home for treatment it is not a risk but a virtual certainty that you will eventually come to serious grief as a result. As the folks from Lanna care -- who help repatriate destitute expats every year, often after they have reached a very wretched condition for lack of money and health care -- can attest.

To tell people insurance is pointless and they should not bother with it, is IMO highly irresponsible and misleading.

And I hardly think having a desire to access health care constitutes a " Judeo-Christian desperation about escaping death".

As for the suggestion that we all be content to live to no more than 70, that may nto be your view once you yourself turn 70. Not to mention health care is hardly limited to preventing death; . much of it is designed to ensure a better quality of life...like not being blind from cataracts, in severe constant pain for a degenerated hip, etc etc.

al007 · October 19, 2017

I am taking the liberty of cutting and pasting a PM I received, that has a lot of wisdom and relevance to this thread

To protect privacy I have edited out anything that will show where it came from

I am from Canada, the land of mythical free healthcare that far too many die waiting for. Having lived here for six years and having had far too much experience with hospitals here but so far, skirting the very serious issues that you are. I consider what you have shared on TVF a public service as I too have found many "potholes" in navigating quality healthcare with reasonable costs, both of which do exist in Thailand but are increasing in cost at an alarming rate. And TVF is rife with those who THINK they know.

Should you wish to discuss and exchange thoughts and issues, I would be pleased to do so.

I agree with your thoughts on needing a living will so as not to waste money on life support, I also would rather my wife have the funds to secure her future here, You indicated that if anyone wants a copy of the one you put together as a combination to PM you and you will send...... I so request of you.I have always uunderstood that such a document bears little weight in Thailand, and the attending doctor's inclination will not be overriden by it. In my country, I believe that many in the care of hospitals suffer pain as they pass on, to a degree that would have protestors marching in the streets were it a dog being so shoddily treated. I can tell you by first hand personal experience categorically that it is true for those in emergency care. Life support is an issue for me, but an exit from this life for me or those in my circle of life fraught with ununnecessary levels of pain as I have witnessed is to be avoided at all costs....... but how??

I have had several requests for a copy of my advance Directive/ Living will, I did not post the final version as I did not want to waste space on TV, but have now found out how to do it with a link

Please note it has not been approved by a lawyer, but so far Chulalongkorn have agreed to put it on my file and this has now been done, I also asked my surgeon about this document and he said he does his best to conform with a patients wishes

I have attached it in word format although I work with pages and Apple

I am and always will be happy to assist other members via PM

There is also a thread running in

This thread also has some very relevant information

Advance Directive27 09 2017 blank.docx

There are many who thing we are morbid but we are only facing reality, too many have no plan, have little money or reserves, no insurance, and fudge the system that requires 800,000 for retirement extension, in my view they should be sent home, end of story

Again I know it upsets many but I like Donald Trump and most of what he says, he also like me does not suffer fools gladly

JLCrab · October 19, 2017

The old Bob Hope line: "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it."

Might as well figure health insurance is about the same.

AboutThaim · October 19, 2017

Sheryl, if insurance is as you say why are there not policies available that will cover for accidents only? Too many insurance companies want to cover for every eventuality at a corresponding high cost when many of us expats (IMO) only want accident cover.

Sheryl · October 19, 2017

There are.

AboutThaim · October 19, 2017

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There are.

Would you like to let us expats know which companies? I'm not the first one to mention this on TV.

Edited October 19, 2017 by AboutThaim
Clarification

Sheryl · October 19, 2017

Pretty much the same companies that provide full health insurance

https://www.axa.co.th/en/personal-accident-protection

http://www.aig.co.th/en/personal/personal-accident

https://www.tokiomarine.com/th/en/personal/protect/accidents/pa-care.html

http://www.insurance-in-thailand.com/insurance-solutions/personal-accident-insurance/

And more. Any broker can give you a full list with comparison charts

Be sure to look at the maximum level of cover, some (banks especially) are ridiculously low. You want 2-5 million baht.

AboutThaim · October 19, 2017

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Pretty much the same companies that provide full health insurance

https://www.axa.co.th/en/personal-accident-protection

http://www.aig.co.th/en/personal/personal-accident

https://www.tokiomarine.com/th/en/personal/protect/accidents/pa-care.html

http://www.insurance-in-thailand.com/insurance-solutions/personal-accident-insurance/

And more. Any broker can give you a full list with comparison charts

Be sure to look at the maximum level of cover, some (banks especially) are ridiculously low. You want 2-5 million baht.

OK thanks Sheryl I will check them out. I currently return to Australia every year and take out travel insurance to cover my time here. Would be good if I can get accident only full time at around the same or less cost.

al007 · October 20, 2017

15 hours ago, AboutThaim said:

OK thanks Sheryl I will check them out. I currently return to Australia every year and take out travel insurance to cover my time here. Would be good if I can get accident only full time at around the same or less cost.

Read the small print very carefully, like to be covered on motorbike do you have to have a valid Thai licence, do you have to be wearing a crash helmet what does it say about alcohol blood levels etc etc

Sign In

Healthcare on a Shoestring for the Elderly who have no insurance

Recommended Posts

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Recently Browsing 0 members

Announcements

Topics

Latest posts...

Popular in The Pub

ASEANNOW

MORE INFO

POPULAR AREAS

CONTACT US